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Free Hours to a Startup

7 points by jseeff ↗ HN
I work with quite a lot of start-ups in my current main job as a lawyer. As a result, I often get asked for help from friends and sometimes volunteer it. Recently, I was asked if I would be willing to offer a few hours of help per week (the company is post seed, pre-A)....

I really like the idea and the people and am keen to learn more about their activities, but I also work long hours and would basically be saving them quite a bit in legal or other advisory fees....

I have some thoughts and am happy to share, but first I'm curious to see what people think? Pros and cons of giving this help? Should I be expecting/demanding options or other compensation? Any experiences of this kind of thing ending well/badly?

13 comments

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calcsam
What do you want to achieve?

(1) Learn more about the startup world (2) Help out some startups (3) Business development for new clients when they raise $ and can afford you.

The answer will depend on which one you're aiming for. My guess is that -- depending on how early the startups you're working with would be -- technical founders would end up looking to you as advisor on topics like negotiation, business development, and fundraising, rather than strictly legal advice. Generally after you help a startup 2-3 times they should give you some equity as an advisor.

jseeff
Fair questions- I should have been more specific (and that will be part of my own thoughts once I have a few more replies). To be honest, I want to achieve all of those. 3) may not be that likely as they already have very well established legal counsel, though it is obviously still potentially there as an option and was how I started giving them a bit of help...

Also true that they weren't necessarily looking for strictly legal help but more analytical / advisory as you suggest.... so on that basis, what do you think?

jseeff
I should also ask, what qualifies as "help 2 or 3 times" and what kind of equity would you envisage? (I know it is highly dependent on multiple factors, but I am curious for people's experiences...)
calcsam
Jason Lemkin does a pretty good job here:

http://www.saastr.com/on-paying-your-mentors-and-advisors-th...

You're probably thinking, as you're accustomed, about your time in units of billable hours. You may want to reframe that in terms like those Lemkin describes. If introductions are not really your currency, an actionable breakthrough communicated might be. Or a fundraising / sales deck you review & provide detailed feedback on.

mead5432
> they already have very well established legal counsel

If that's the case, why are they asking you for help? Either their existing counsel is bad or they don't want to pay.

Maybe if they are looking for advice around some of the things that aren't strictly legal (e.g. negotiation), that makes sense. I agree with another comment that after about 2-3 times, it's probably worth sitting down and offering your services as a true advisor and the rewards/responsibilities that come with that.

jseeff
Yeah - I think it is a combination of money and not strictly legal.... but what does 2/3 times mean? Reviewing an investor deck might take me 20/30 mins... it's not really a big deal. Advising on a contract is obviously a much bigger deal...
brudgers
The "It's only a few hours" argument points both ways. It's only a few hours so paying you for your time shouldn't pose much of a hardship. And whatever it is or isn't, it's lawyer time and if things go sidewise calling it "analytic/advisory" may not mean it's not legal advice with all the responsibility and duties that entails.
vonnik
Startups typically compensate in equity and/or some deferred payment contingent on the next round when they ask attorney's for services that can't be paid for in cash immediately.
jseeff
I should clarify: I am not being asked to offer help as the company lawyer per se (they have legal counsel and I am generally familiar with the deferred payment model)... this is more of a "asking a friend for [free?] advice" situation
brudgers
A startup is a business, not a charity. Don't kid yourself that freebies are pro bono in any sense whatsoever. To put it another way, giving these people free legal advice makes as much sense as them just giving you stock based on friendly feeling.

Charge your regular rate or don't do it. You don't need clients who don't value your time enough to write you a check. And you damn sure don't want them to tell all their friends or that big future project that also doesn't pay. Work with professionals.

Good luck.

jseeff
Thanks... I get that, but they aren't my "clients" in the sense of a client of my firm.... it is less formal than that (at the moment).... hence the question and it's about balancing a "way in" with "learning" but also being compensated if appropriate.
brudgers
It's less formal only because you're acting as if it's not business. But I suspect you're the only one, the erstwhile clients are and they are demonstrating a perfect willingness to not pay you for your time.

It's a tell. Most people who will screw you live with themselves under the rationalization that they gave fair warning. You're hanging around past the initial conversation where a little free friendly advice is socially appropriate among acquaintances, and now past the point where it's clear that a normal business transaction is in the works. You're the one buying and the seller has been clear: *caveat emptor".

You're not part of this deal. You have no leverage to force your way in. If the company grows, then paying work for you may be created organically. It's only worth playing long.

workerdee
One possible solution would be if you genuinely enjoy offering advice to startups, you could always look at it as a hobby. Honestly, I'm not sure someone with a conscience would be okay asking for help without at least offering something/anything (money, golf, beer, w/e). Everyone needs help at one point or another, and you may want to work or volunteer with people who value your contributions.