Ask HN: I will help your startup in exchange for food and a place to stay
This my third and final time posting this post, first time it was labeled as spam and the second time someone suggested that i edit it and so i did.
I have 4 years remaining in my U.S visa, each visit i can stay 6 months, i don't want to break any U.S rules that's why i want to code for your startup for no money, just food and a place to live in transportation would be nice too but i am not going to take money from you and i am not going to ask your for health insurance or be your employee, i don't want to break any rules, i have +8 years of experience in JS, PHP, Ruby mainly as a full stack web developer i also do game development using Unity3D + C#, i'm a Musician since over 15 years at my free time and i can design sounds and soundtracks i work with many DAWs, i'm bilingual i speak fluent Arabic and English beside having many more skills.
I am doing this because i live in a war torn country, some issues happened and i've lost all my savings, I'm 31 years old and i don't want to spend the rest of my life in this place, i've been to California in 2014 and i loved it so much, i can't get an H1B visa because i don't have a university degree although i have a high school diploma and a college diploma in business management and e-commerce.
If you'd like to interview me please send me an e-mail to life.will.get.better.2016@gmail.com, thank you.
Thank you for reading my post.
ps: Please if you can't help me at least try not to be negative in the comments i already have enough negativity going on in my life and i could really really use some motivation, but after all you are free to write whatever you want of course and i appreciate it.
One more thing, thank you "dang" for telling me about the spam filter and helping me.
296 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 305 ms ] threadWhile I am sure there are conditions that will allow you to come and stay in the country, I would be careful what your arrangement is with any potential startup and how it is worded.
Perhaps another individual on HN has more insight into U.S. visa rules and can provide better guidance?
Good luck nonetheless!
> just food and a place to live in transportation would be nice too but i am not going to take money from you and i am not going to ask your for health insurance or be your employee, i don't want to break any rules
There is a good chance that, as well as raising immigration law issues, this arrangement could also cause your non-employer to violate federal and state minimum wage laws.
I second the advice of others who suggest consulting an immigration attorney. This is a challenging and important problem, and it really demands the advice of a professional. If you don't think you can afford one you should: 1) schedule an initial consultation with a good immigration attorney anyway. You should get at least this first conversation for free. (And beware: there are many truly awful immigration attorneys. Do a little research.) 2) Look to see if there are any law schools in your area that have immigration law clinics. They may well take your case for free and, although you will be assisted by law students, they will be supervised closely by faculty and will probably provide you with very good advice.
Good luck.
However, I don't think there's anything illegal about paying an independent contractor who's living in another country. So my suggestion to codeornocode would be to find some sort of work in the US that could be done remotely from some safe third country. Immigration authorities care a lot about displacement of their own citizens, but in the places I've lived they don't give a hoot about somebody who is on a working vacation.
[1] http://wwoofinternational.org
OP, you really should consider making your way here to NZ.
Having said that, Auckland felt like a bit of a technical wasteland... I've heard it's better down in Wellington or Christchurch, but I never regretted moving to San Francisco.
I sponsored s.o. for their permanent resident visa and we were told to wait until the status has been approved before any kind of work can be done. The immigration hotline mentioned that volunteer work would be possible during that time, but it would still require an application from the employer. It took the employer a few days to get all the paperwork sorted out and 2 weeks later the application was denied, leaving everyone a bit disappointed & furious about all the wasted time and promised opportunities on both sides.
Generally speaking: even if you do work as a volunteer, the kind of work you're going to do is most likely s.th. that should either be paid for or could be done by a local resident/citizen. If the US system is anything like the Canadian one, then you'll still get in trouble if they figure out that you've been working, even if it's for free/volunteer work.
attending business conferences and meetings
conducting independent research, such as feasibility or marketing studies
engaging in “start-up” activities (for example, exploring U.S. investment opportunities)
Source: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/a-b-1-visa-business-v...
So it would be legitimate if the work you are doing is to research business opportunities. Also book every relevant conference and convention in the area that you can go to and attend each, get business cards, develop contact.
As far as you know, you are here researching future opportunities to set up a great business and create jobs in the U.S..
Then in the US you can legitimately use your "Business Visitor Visas (B-1) - ... to consult with business associates, ... or negotiate a contract"
http://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/VisaFlyer_March_20...
So you can chat to startups and offer to get stuff written for them by your company abroad. They can legally pay your company and your company can pay you a salary while traveling.
I think all the above is legal. Not really legal but very hard to catch is you could actually write some of the code yourself in your room or a cafe in California if the friends back home don't do it. If immigration get on to you it would be hard to prove you are working rather than just mucking about on the laptop. On the other hand if you are in a work situation in an office then they will assume you are working illegally.
The above has an advantage that if you do well it may actually turn into a real business.
> working – even informally as a musician, babysitter, artist, hawker, or other traditionally “off the books” position.
And
> any payment from a U.S. source may be considered unauthorized employment
I'd say just not worth it! Hong Kong and the UAE are two places with a lot of tech you might have better luck.
Also, money or not, if you're working in US in capacity that usually someone would get compensated for, even for a company outside the US, you need to have work permit in the country.
If I were you I would look for jobs within Middle East like Qatar, UAE. Jobs related to tech are there, US universities are there, and the requirements with immigration are basically "if employer wants you get in." Rack up a few years of experience, then getting H1B would be viable.
Proving experience without employment contracts is really hard to impossible.
And due to cyber security laws, you will notice no one is going to sat more than that in a GCC state.
If you're there for manual/low skilled work then the pay and conditions (relative to, say, Europe) can be appalling.
Given what he posted, he is either from Syria or Yemen. And this is why, knowing the breakdown that you summarized, he will most certainly face a tough time.
I work with many people on both sides of this spectrum, and hence my warning.
I like you and your tenacity.
Why don't you ask it differently so all those annoying comments trying to "help" you would stop.
What I'm thinking is this:
"hey guys,
Does anyone have a fun side project I could hack on? Would you also be so generous as to have a couch for me at your place and host me for couple of weeks or whatever time?"
I can't imagine why such a proposal would have any illegal implications as long as you're presence in this country is legal. You can also qualify the "side project" as non-commercial and "hobby"
Does that make any sense whatsoever in your situation?
Anyway, best of luck. I really hope things get better.
Take care.
Specifically Australia, Canada, Germany all have working holiday visas which are flexible and would let you do this sort of thing. Generally anything to do with the US and visas is a bad day.
I don't know if you'd be allowed to work, but instead of taking grants from the US as a refugee, you could maybe convince them that you are a skilled-refugee who is leaving your war-torn country and you would like to work instead of being given a handout.
Something tells me that the red-tape in the US won't allow this, but it is worth a shot, especially if you speak to an immigration lawyer about it.
Also, gmazzotti, I believe you wanted to say "foreigners" instead of "forgeries".
You may improve your life temporarily but it will all come crashing down one day when the immigration authorities catch up to you. You will be deported and banned from re-entering the US. There are many developed countries where someone with your skills can obtain a temporary work visa easily. You can live and work freely and legally, get on your feet financially and maybe attend university there to help you get into the US legally in the future.
Maybe it will help if you tell us where your citizenship is and we can help you with suggestions of other developed countries that will allow you to come for a 1-2 year temporary work visa.
http://flagtheory.com/
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/may/07/experien...
I have also had various family members overstay visas for very long periods of time and they weren't dirt poor. On the other hand, this kind of hiding in plain sight is hell when kids turn 18 and can't attend a university. That's the most sad part of the existence and a big reason for support of the DREAM act.
I know a large number of people in the tech industry with questionable immigration status.
Please, don't get offended. I'm not a heavy user here and I don't have permission to downvote posts.
https://www.google.com/search?q=deportation&espv=2&biw=1600&...
I think the purpose of all this discussion was whether OP should come to the States and work under the radar, and the general consensus is that being here illegally strongly caps your upside, and has a pretty uncertain downside.
PS - My friend's now the chief engineer of a successful business in London... I always thought it was such a shame for a guy who worked his way from being an orphan on a farm in Kenya to live 90% of the American Dream, only to be kicked out of the country after putting in his all at Stanford and at a few startups.
It's a points based system, which is punitive of age and education.
30 years is the cut off for the 'easy', one year, restricted 'working holiday' visa that you may have been thinking of.
For regular immigration, you'll need a working visa, which requires your hiring company to handle the paperwork.
Likewise, if you're trying to immigrate without an already found job, with no college degree, the OP will find the point system probably weighing heavily against him.
One of the most flexible countries at the moment is Spain. The weather is great, the food is great, and it's a fun country.
Pretty much the same than Canada but still way less restricting than USA.
>One of the most flexible countries at the moment is Spain. The weather is great, the food is great, and it's a fun country.
Spain has still a pretty significant unemployment rate, also (this may vary depending of the region and where are you originally from) some people are not very polite with some immigrant even if they are Spaniard-decendent (anecdotical experience from some friends living over there)
There's two types: one gives you 1 year residency (can be extended, of course) - application is decided within 10 days.
Another gives you 2 years, decision in 20 days.
Entry requirements are low. It's worth checking out.
In 10 days, you could be in Spain. There are many decent tech companies hiring as well.
http://foundersgrid.com/spain-entrepreneur-visa
in capitalist America, we ALSO deport intelligent workers
I have very limited info about Uruguay and I appreciate it if someone could help me and provide more details about the situation there
I don't think knowing spanish is a requirement. At least I know of a few people who manage with only english, but you will enjoy life much more if you try to learn it. Uruguayans are nice, warm and very sociable, you will be missing out if you only talk to those that know english well enough.
Regarding work prospects, Uruguay is expensive and the salaries don't seem to reflect that. You will probably manage, but will have to be more frugal than someone in Australia. (There is plenty of good paying programming jobs though. Uruguay is the top software exporter in Latin America.)
All in all, Uruguay is underrated country. It has lots to offer and is growing everyday, but it still requires more effort to make a living than western countries. I wouldn't advice it for someone whose top goal is money, but I would strongly recommend it to someone who enjoys life's little pleasures, food, tranquility, friends, health, education and being away from almost all of the world conflicts.
As RowanH suggested above. Have a look at www.seek.co.nz
There are some societal problems with xenophobia and racism though. Probably affects Muslims the most. Avoidable by going to a major city like Berlin or Hamburg.
Work visas are generally only issued if you already have an offer. Which is hard to get unless you're in the country...
In southern Germany, engineering jobs have been difficult to find for my expat friends that don't know German. "Sehr gute kenntnisse auf Deutsch / Englisch" accompanies most any listing.
West-Flanders is actually (almost) Dutch only, not a lot of IT in here and a lot of agricultre. I don't mind, but i suppose a lot of older people ( who don't know english) could have a hard time having a conversation with you :)
Where did you live?
I'm West-Flemish myself and still live here, but I also get my share of snarky remarks of blogging in English or reading stuff primary in English. If you have a website with some text in Dutch and you make a spelling mistake then you will certainly get (angry) mails about it. Or when you use an English word instead of a Dutch, for some that is another capital offence.
If that sounds ridiculous keep in mind we have people proverbial running after busses and filling complaints when the bus company dares to advertise something with English words in it.
Ans seeing how many Dutch related contests Flemish participants win, I have sometimes the feeling that we are better in Dutch than our neighbours in the Netherlands. So yeah the Dutch language is really important in this part of the world.
For some things I can see the benefits of being able to promote (or even force) the local language. I'm personally convinced that from a social POV it helps when your neighbour understands you and speaks the same languages.
But on the other hand in the global age we are living we shouldn't overestimate the importance of it. It sometimes depresses me if I see how much energy gets lost in those kind of discussions.
The people were very nice (like, almost Hot Fuzz nice :-D), probably why the few who berated my Dutch speaking abilities stood out :-)
Fortunately a lot of people don't mind if you aren't fluent in it as they value the effort more then being 100% correct. And those who react hostile just don't understand how difficult the language is. Hell even natives have sometimes problems with all the grammatical rules the Dutch language has!
Hot fuzz is really one of my favourite movies, then again I'm a bit of an anglophile regarding movies/series/... . :-) I lived btw also in Blankenberge for 12 years and born in Bruges. Nowadays I live at the other end of West Flanders.
How come? Just no interest? Don't like it?
But in this case, to work legally, he'd need a work visa as you say, which I imagine is even harder to get?
Only requirement is to get job offer with enough salary.
So it's worth a shot. Looks like we could use more programmers here.
In short, you only have to get job offer to relocate to Sweden.
They didn't even check my employment history.
So western countries get more high qualified people like me and my friends.
Putin motivate high qualified people to find a job in Europe :)
And as everybody agree in 21 century, high qualified people is everything for growing economy.
Basically, you need to get a job offer from a company in Sweden with a competitive ("normal") salary, and you are in.
IF your line of work is on the shortage list, such as IT work.
http://www.startupjobs.asia/
http://e27.co/jobs
https://angel.co/singapore/jobs
Shoot me an email (in my profile) if you need help / are strongly considering HK.
I have to get a job offer with more than 6000 SGD per month in order to get employment pass without university degree.
Because we're the best by far, in about every way?
Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Intel, HP, Yahoo. Everything that matters in technology in here. Silicon Valley. Investors.
Other countries try to imitate the excellence of USA, they don't.
If USA is on your gut instincts - maybe you're meant to be here.
Just a random picture of San Francisco: http://stitchesanddishes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/2010...
I visited San Francisco for a month a month ago and it was pretty bleak.
He always used say, "I just don't know why people like San Francisco so much?"
Things my father didn't like: The weather. He hated cold, rainy weather, and hated wind.(It messed up his hair?). He didn't travel much, so he didn't know what real hot weather can to do a person's energy level. I used to tell him if he spent a week in Joplin, Missouri, he would never complain about the cold, foggy SF climate.
My father didn't like the cost of living in the city, but I never knew why. He didn't care about other people. Yes--he cared about himself. He really didn't have to worry about the costs because he inherited a house, and had a good Union job all his life?
He didn't like the diversity in the city. I liked the diversity of the city, but found that even though San Francisco seems pretty liberal, and caring; people walk over the poor/Homeless in order to get to their shindig(whatever that may be?). They vote liberal if it benefits them, but it can be a cruel city? Maybe all big cities are cruel?
I have noticed a lot of young females try to find a man in San Francisco, and I've seen/know a lot of lonely women. I guess there's a lot of reasons why? I have a ex-girlfriend who got sick of her social life, or lack there of, and finally moved to Silicon Valley.(I'm not sure if she ever found anyone?)
If you are a female, and considering moving here, and want to settle down and start a family with the right guy; I think it's harder than other areas? Some of you will vehemently dissagree?
Personally, I don't like driving/parking in San Francisco.
If you decide to buy a car in San Franciaco put a kill switch in it--even if you think no thief wants it, you will eventually will have someone break into your vechicle. My old truck was broken into so much, I emptied it completely, and just left it open--at least they didn't break a window to get to a cheap stereo?
The positives of the city: It's a union city, but you must get into a union. It's not impossible, but there's a lot of competition. You will get paid though; local 6 Electricians make $100/hr, or more? Bell Hops own homes.
The restaurants, if you are care? Personally, I don't care that much about eating out, but I'm not normal.
Rent control--if you are lucky enough to land in a place that has rent control? (I believe rent control is an essential for such a small city. The people I know who live in San Francisco all are under rent control, and wouldn't be there without it. They know they got lucky! )
The diversity. While I love the diversity; don't think people will welcome you with open arms. The better looking people are treated better. When their looks fade, they don't get any special treatment. I'm not just talking about the gay community either. (Maybe this is common everywhere?)
Actually, the one thing I really love about San Franciso is Ocean beach. It's free to park your car. I've never seen too many cops harassing people there. It's just a peaceful place. I used to drink a beer, in my truck, there after work.
To be honest, the city is great if you have money. I heard one little dude tell me, "SF is great for street smart, credentialed people!". He was in a bar desperately trying to impress his date--someone way out of this guy's league.
I recall, telling him he would last half a day in New York City. I still believe that. I still believe it's easier to "make it" in SF, than NY? (The little dude was really irritating me, but what I sa...
For fuck's sake just say "a woman"
You need a "blue card" to work to work in the EU, its comparable to the US Green Card, but (i think) easier to get. From the Wikipedia-Article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Card_(European_Union)) :
Acquisition of Blue Card has several requirements. The applicant must have a work contract or binding job offer with a salary of at least 1.5 times the average gross annual salary paid in the Member State. A Blue Card acquirer must present a valid travel document (and in specific cases a valid residence permit or a national long-term visa) and documents proving the relevant higher professional qualification.
Here is more information regarding Germany (but it is from 2008): http://www.wohin-auswandern.de/blue-card-en
To be honest, the salary probably won't be a problem, with your expertise you should be able to land a pretty decent job.
I didn't get Blue Card since I didn't get job offer with really high salary, but instead I got Work Permit which don't require salary 1.5 times higher than the average.
Also in Netherlands there are two options: Blue Card and High Skilled Migrant.
Requirements for High Skilled Migrant are much lower than for Blue Card.
In Sweden and Netherlands you can work without university degree.
In Germany, you can not get Blue Card without university degree. And if you want to get Work Permit as alternative, you should know German language (Sweden and Netherlands don't require you to know their language).
So Germany isn't good option. I recommend Sweden and Netherlands if you don't have university degree.
AFAIK, no-one has ever received a Blue Card in the NL. The salary requirement is higher than for knowledge migrants, so it doesn't even make sense to try.
Knowledge migrant law discriminates on age. If he's over 30, the salary requirement is prohibitevely high - high enough that it is highly improbable he'll find a company willing to pay him that much with his profile.
If he's under 30, than the salary requirement is around €3k per month, and that might be doable if he does his interview exceptionally well and convince them he has a "thinking level" of somebody with a university degree.
https://ind.nl/en/individuals/employee/costs-income-requirem...
You should earn €4189 per month. It's not a lot of money if you are good software developer.
Booking in Amsterdam pay more than this!
From my personal experience (I don't have degree), I can say that companies like Booking, Amazon, Facebook, Google etc don't care about your degree.
If someone is handsome with algorithms and scalable architecture, then he/she can easily get more than €4K in Amsterdam.
That's difficult to believe. I barely make half of that in Canada.
Seriously, if only I can get a job at one of them.
I recently acquired a blue card kind of accidentally, after landing a permanent contract with a company as an iOS dev. The HR person took me into the foreigners office to apply for a sponsored work visa (where I would be tied to a specific company) and we walked out with a blue card tied to my profession instead, on the spot. Blue cards are really amazing - you have free movement inside the entire Schengen region, can work for anyone, you get unemployment benefits and it's a relatively short period before you can get permanent residency (with a language requirement - B1 in 21 months).
Let's face it, for many countries, the US is still seen as dreamland, in particular to those many who don't connect the dots between the root cause of the problems in their homeland and the 30% tax that will be taken away from their income once they start working in the US.
This dreamland illusion is so strong that even the locals believe it. I have to deal with this on a monthly basis at the border custom patrol: the officers constantly stop me at the border and investigate me with tons of questions aiming at evaluating whether or not I am trying to "sneak into the country to steal work from honest US citizens" (sic). Every time, I am treated like a lost soul who's dreaming of working in the US (and who's very probably a criminal considering my skin color). Last time I crossed the border I was even warned that my passport doesn't show proof that I left the US, it only shows every time I entered it so technically, they don't know if I am staying there more than 90 days. How do you respond to this without being insulting? The thing is: I hate the idea of working in the US so much that I can't even talk honestly about what I feel fearing I would be arrested.
So, yes, "why US?", you asked the right question. But these guys are living in the exact same illusion than the US citizens are: "Our country is the best place in the world, the only place you're free of your opinions and where you can become a billionaire." The illusion is so strong they would even work for free...for free...for free...for free...
You can't do much against this.
This boggles the mind. "Hey, I'd love to have an exit date stamped on my passport. But I don't make the rules." First time I went to the US I got apprehensive because I didn't see an "exit" stamp. My passport was full of such stamps, mostly from Portugal and so I expected one. Only after arriving back at my country and turning the data package in my cellphone on is that I discovered that the US issues no such stamps.
> the US is still seen as dreamland, in particular to those many who don't connect the dots between the root cause of the problems in their homeland and the 30% tax that will be taken away from their income once they start working in the US.
Only 30%? That's nothing. Were in the world would you pay less?
> The thing is: I hate the idea of working in the US so much that I can't even talk honestly about what I feel fearing I would be arrested.
You give crap to law enforcements, specially immigration officers, and you are in for a bad time, anywhere. I bet your attitude has something to do with it too. Try to be polite.
My experience with US immigration is that they are cuddly teddy bears compared to Japan.
I can tell you all about this. Technically, the onus is on the air carriers to use their passenger manifests to report back to DHS, who tracks it all centrally. You can imagine how well that works.
Read More: http://cis.org/biometric-exit-tracking-feasible-and-cost-eff...
Well, aside from any compliance problems, its quite possible (and legal!) to leave the US by means other than air travel. (And, to respond to the link you provided, also quite possible and legal to do so by means other than commercial air or sea travel.)
If you're a remote worker, that's heaven.
27,5% for income and 15% for capital here in Brazil. What is very expensive considering the quality of public services. And the taxes paid for products are much higher.
Maybe, but there are definitely other options. I am an immigrant myself and the steep USA's visa process made me to look to another place.
I am happy living in Canada now but my second option (Australia) still looks attractive too, and that is just to name two.
Also, holding children in prison camps unfit for human habitation, because they have not been granted asylum status, isn't that much better.
What about working on some open source projects? I don't think that would fall into the danger zone of immigration law(since you wouldn't be working "for" anyone).
Alternatively, maybe a company here can offer you an internship? The visa requirements could be less.
Does anyone here know an immigration lawyer that could help this person get out of a bad situation?
My suggestion is to not do this. Enter as a tourist and enjoy your time in the US. If you want to work in the US, do it legally. Do work on an open source project and try to network and get a job that that way. Maybe try to join a huge company like Google or Facebook from abroad and transfer. That's your best way, especially if you get an L1 visa.
It is just not worth the risk and definitely not someone of your caliber needs to. There are other countries where you could fare better. Perhaps Canada?
I'm going through the immigration process right now and everyday Canada looks like a good option. I know it's not the US but it's still an awesome western country and has a reasonable immigration system.
Good luck!
All the best to you!
While a work visa is not likely to be easy, the current tech scene has huge demand for programmers of all kinds. Especially if you're expert in Unity/Full-stack.
If it'll help, let me know here, and I'll connect you to someone in this very area (game programming, Unity SDK programming).
Other options would be Canada, Mexico, Vietnam, or anywhere else you can work remotely.
For visa details see http://www.immihelp.com/nri/indiavisa/employment-visa-india....
If you want any more information about India - dont hesitate to mail me. It's a great startup ecosystem and great food. Yes, we have our shit - but fairly democratic and good opportunities can be had in general.
Tech work in India can be used as a stepping stone to the middle east, Singapore or the US.
If you have all this time, why not develop an app and sell it on the internet? You can always say you're working for your own company back home.
Do not work for free.
Once more, please, do not work for free.
1. You don't have to work for free, far from it. You have in-demand skills and experience in a global job market. You can make really good money in many, many desirable locations around the world.
2. I would be extremely wary of anyone who would take you up on the basis you're proposing. Anyone who would give you such 'charity'[1] may have very questionable morals - 'oh sure, I'll take this desperate[2] man's skills, make potentially a LOT of money off of him without giving him his due reward, and that's completely fine with me, because that's what he said he wanted'. Imagine the sort of person who would utter such a sentence - do you want to tie your livelihood for the next however many years to such a person? I'm sure you know, there is a whole class of criminal activity in developed countries which exploits illegal immigrants based around this very premise. DO NOT put yourself on that path.
3. Never put yourself at the mercy of any one person or organisation for your survival. Your current situation is awful, but what kind of life would that be to move to? How will you feel waking up in a morning in a bed someone is letting you sleep in, eating some food they gave you for breakfast, then going to work all day only to guarantee an evening meal and bed when you return home. Repeating every day for a long time. That is not a life.
[1] That's what they might justify it as, at least. The reality is the opposite.
[2] I really don't mean to offend here, I know that's not what you are, at your core. But that's how they will see you, and that's the position you will put yourself in and indeed what you will become by following such a path.
I agree that I would guess you can do better, especially looking at other countries (there are so many out there! and wonderful people everywhere). But worse comes to worse, don't be afraid that the sky will fall down on you if you can't find better than this arrangement. Just keep working hard and leaping for better (and do keep your eyes peeled as there absolutely could be people who would take advantage of you).
I can't relate to what he's going through but I know he's looking for an out from his current situation, under a great deal of stress, and from that vantage point it's usually difficult to see how varied your options are.
I meant for my overall message to be positive - OP, you do not have to resort to this plan! There is virtually zero chance that this plan is your best option. Assure yourself of that, and take a serious look at the vastly better alternative options you have - some great ideas for which are on this thread!