Do we really need another re-hashing of the books we were required to read in high school?
I'm just tired of hearing about these titles. I don't feel a strong heritage connection to them. It's stupid how they are repeatedly brought up, and how loving these worn-out books is seen as being 'literary'.
In the same way that generals are always fighting the last war, high school english is always sharing the profound books from the last cultural paradigm shift.
Edit: Oh, I get it - the Bible is not written by an American so it cannot make it into the list of American books. Could have used a hint with the downvote.
Kicked off entirely new waves of greed and selfishness all over the country, but .. most especially of all .. on Wall Street. I'd say it had an impact, most definitely.
Looks like you got downvoted by mindless Randroids. Let me counter that a bit.
And yes, Atlas Shrugged has had a tremendously harmful impact on America, specifically its business culture. It's basically The Bible for capitalism, except instead of worshipping god, you worship the so-called "captains of industry" (aka "job creators").
I don't think its correct that "capitalism" has its own bible. What happened with the Objectivists, and their big-business, greed-derived purpose, is one thing; capitalism is another. I think what happened is things got absolutely feudal, and as with all forks of human culture, Objectivism took off because it gave people what they wanted, if not what is needed. Cult systems work, which is the reason they persist in the first place, and the Rand'ists had all the ingredients for the cultural revolution they so desired: power, wealth, influence.
Capitalism - the positive form of it, which results in prosperity - has been under attack through countless generations for a long time, but it is still the one '-ism' which provides impetus to deliver value, rather than attempts to defeat it. I've seen very little of value in Rand'ian thought - but I can certainly understand the position of anyone who wants to 'get into it', for their own reasons, and get some value from it. Reading such stuff is mental capitalism, after all ..
Ah, yes, the masses are stupid parasites and the elite few (of whom of course the reader fantasizes he belongs to) are responsible for all that's good in the world. I wonder why people have a problem with it.
Rand never indicates the American masses (your word, not hers) are stupid parasites, nothing even remotely of the sort in fact. She describes the masses as being devoured and harmed by the parasites, which are feeding off of them. This is true in Atlas Shrugged, Anthem, We The Living, and in her ~60 years of non-fiction writings. If you've read her books, it's impossible to have missed this, she's extraordinarily clear about it and goes to great lengths to spell it out for the reader step by step, both in terms of ideology and in real world effects.
You, who have actually read her work and given it an honest moment's thought, have been down voted by people who don't viciously know far more than you do about her work without the humdrum necessity of actually having read it.
Miss Rand's ethics and politics are far more widely influential than in 1957, both among intellectuals and the general public. Entrepreneurialism, startup culture, modern self-esteem, and individualism have prospered along with the cultural changes Rand was a part of far beyond what seemed possible when that book was written.
And the Western nations are nowhere near socialism. In the 1950s tax rates topped out around 90%, banks had a stranglehold on capital guaranteed by state run cartels, and you needed a license from a state mandated monopoly to even connect to a telecom network which they would grant rarely at their pleasure if they liked what you might do with it. You couldn't carry money through most countries in person or via a bank and trade often required renting a politician to get permission.
Seriously. I know lists like this are always subjective and there's some great (and awful literature, but mainly great) in this list. But omitting "Slaughterhouse-Five" not only for its content but the post modern aesthetic (which was a big deal at the time) it used, is confusing.
And although I wouldn't expect it, there should be some Bukowski on this list too. Also, Gravity's Rainbow?
I don't agree with civilian's post, but I think that he is onto something. Once you get past Noah Webster and Benjamin Spock, the shaping effect is hard for me to see.
The Education of Henry Adams includes some interesting chapters, though it is not nearly Adams's best work: yet what in America has it shaped other than the occasional class reading list? Similarly there are fine and complex works of literature that few have read. Take a poll at the bus stop or the coffee shop and see how many people can quote you five lines out of North of Boston, Spring and All or Howl. (I can do maybe one from Howl and almost certainly the number in it is wrong" "America, when will you become worthy of your two million Trotskyites?") Moby Disk is a fine novel, but how many have read it through; no doubt The Sound and the Fury is also, but it defeated me at an age when I read a lot of Faulkner, and I haven't been back.
I thought maybe the Book of Mormon would be on the list since it spawned one of the largest American-born religious movements and contributed to much of the settlement of the western US. I don't see any religious books on the list though.
Yeah, I was surprised to not see any religious books. That's a good one I hadn't thought of. I was thinking of Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan, one of the most popular books ever written by American and probably the most owned book in the country for an era.
How so? The list is only useful in the sense that it gives someone who wants to explore the progression of American culture(s) through the years a starting point.
The title should be "American Books that shaped America". The Capital not being included in that list is akin to the Catholic church leaving the Luteran bible outside a list of influential works.
I think you're right, and it must be because this is from the Library of Congress, which is a repository of books published in the US. A slightly less contentious example would be de Tocqueville's "Democracy in America" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_America
It took me a second to know what book you were referring to. I've never seen it called that. Every mention I've ever seen of it (and I live in the US), it's Das Kapital.
If we're going with non-American books that shaped America, John Locke would have a much better claim than Karl Marx, given that Locke's ideas had a profound influence on the American form of government.
The Library of Congress put up this list of books that shaped America. I am an American of American descent since before the Revolution, and I have certainly read much less than half of these. The Library notes that this list is intended to spark discussion, so I'm glad that discussion has already begun here. My wild guess about the very most influential book is the King James ("Authorized") English-language translation of the Bible (not on the list, which apparently focuses on books published in America). I think Thomas Paine's Common Sense (1776) (which I have read, and which relies heavily on the Bible for its argument) was also very influential.
There are definitely some odd choices on there. An obscure dime novel by Louisa May Alcott? How did that "shape America"? Her Little Women deserves a place on the list, certainly, but I'm not sure about this one.
During the "Walden" period he lived simple, frugal life and invested his time into things he cared about (eg., measuring the depth of the Walden pond in winter). After his crops were ready for the harvest, he took them to the city and sold them with minimal effort, being fascinated by the fact that he didn't have to do almost anything, while he enjoyed all the luxuries of sensible, spiritual life.
He wasn't only author that did such things, but the society really never cared or cares.
Thoreau is forgotten, but for me, at least during his Walden period - he was a proper "hacker".
I'm quite sure that he would condemn the mark of being one of these who shaped the America (or world), because this is not what he wanted.
> I don't understand how exactly he shaped America?
You answered that right below. That way that he lived is something that a lot of Americans dream of (myself included), just to have a little plot of land all to yourself and be with nature for a while.
> Thoreau is forgotten
Maybe in Europe, but not here. Thoreau is seen as having outlined a very idyllic life, especially for modern times, of living semi-lazily "off the grid".
> I'm quite sure that he would condemn the mark of being one of these who shaped the America (or world), because this is not what he wanted.
Such is the life of a reclusive artist :)
N.B. - Walden Pond is not some mystical place out in the middle of nowhere, it's just outside of Concord, NH[0], site of one of the first battles of the American Revolution just 70 years prior. So, while it was idyllic, it was not like Thoreau was that far away from civilization. The middle of Concord is less than 1.5 miles (2.4km) away from the north shore where Thoreau lived.
I know that they maintain a nice museum over there. Thoreau's books were translated into most European languages and frankly, his writing influenced me a lot during my early twenties.
As I've gotten older (34 now), I keep moving further and further out, hoping to capture my own Walden experiences. So far, I've only had courage to get to the edge of the suburbs :(.
Archaeologists found that he had used an order of magnitude more nails than he needed to to build his shelter. He accidentally chopped off part of his toe. His sister brought him food every week.
So he moved fast, broke stuff, and explored self-sufficiency while receiving help from others.
> I don't understand how exactly he shaped America?
From the link: "Thoreau’s love of nature and his advocacy of a simple life have had a large influence on modern conservation and environmentalist movements."
Beyond Walden, Thoreau's Resistance to Civil Government (also known by the title Civil Disobedience) has been cited as a major influence by civil rights leaders in the United States and abroad.
I don't think it'd be fair at all to say that Thoreau is forgotten in America, even if not everything about modern American life and culture conforms to what he might have wanted for the country.
45 comments
[ 5.3 ms ] story [ 106 ms ] thread... and for everything else, there's the library. :)
I'm just tired of hearing about these titles. I don't feel a strong heritage connection to them. It's stupid how they are repeatedly brought up, and how loving these worn-out books is seen as being 'literary'.
In the same way that generals are always fighting the last war, high school english is always sharing the profound books from the last cultural paradigm shift.
I think big companies have shaped American culture a lot. Here's something from 2002 about Rand's influence, but Googling around easily turns up more: http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/20...
Edit: Oh, I get it - the Bible is not written by an American so it cannot make it into the list of American books. Could have used a hint with the downvote.
And yes, Atlas Shrugged has had a tremendously harmful impact on America, specifically its business culture. It's basically The Bible for capitalism, except instead of worshipping god, you worship the so-called "captains of industry" (aka "job creators").
Capitalism - the positive form of it, which results in prosperity - has been under attack through countless generations for a long time, but it is still the one '-ism' which provides impetus to deliver value, rather than attempts to defeat it. I've seen very little of value in Rand'ian thought - but I can certainly understand the position of anyone who wants to 'get into it', for their own reasons, and get some value from it. Reading such stuff is mental capitalism, after all ..
It sad that her ideas is quite unpopular among general public. And as a consequence Europe and even US go towards socialism these days.
And the Western nations are nowhere near socialism. In the 1950s tax rates topped out around 90%, banks had a stranglehold on capital guaranteed by state run cartels, and you needed a license from a state mandated monopoly to even connect to a telecom network which they would grant rarely at their pleasure if they liked what you might do with it. You couldn't carry money through most countries in person or via a bank and trade often required renting a politician to get permission.
People forget how good they have it today.
And although I wouldn't expect it, there should be some Bukowski on this list too. Also, Gravity's Rainbow?
The Education of Henry Adams includes some interesting chapters, though it is not nearly Adams's best work: yet what in America has it shaped other than the occasional class reading list? Similarly there are fine and complex works of literature that few have read. Take a poll at the bus stop or the coffee shop and see how many people can quote you five lines out of North of Boston, Spring and All or Howl. (I can do maybe one from Howl and almost certainly the number in it is wrong" "America, when will you become worthy of your two million Trotskyites?") Moby Disk is a fine novel, but how many have read it through; no doubt The Sound and the Fury is also, but it defeated me at an age when I read a lot of Faulkner, and I haven't been back.
I don't understand how exactly he shaped America?
During the "Walden" period he lived simple, frugal life and invested his time into things he cared about (eg., measuring the depth of the Walden pond in winter). After his crops were ready for the harvest, he took them to the city and sold them with minimal effort, being fascinated by the fact that he didn't have to do almost anything, while he enjoyed all the luxuries of sensible, spiritual life.
He wasn't only author that did such things, but the society really never cared or cares.
Thoreau is forgotten, but for me, at least during his Walden period - he was a proper "hacker".
I'm quite sure that he would condemn the mark of being one of these who shaped the America (or world), because this is not what he wanted.
You answered that right below. That way that he lived is something that a lot of Americans dream of (myself included), just to have a little plot of land all to yourself and be with nature for a while.
> Thoreau is forgotten
Maybe in Europe, but not here. Thoreau is seen as having outlined a very idyllic life, especially for modern times, of living semi-lazily "off the grid".
> I'm quite sure that he would condemn the mark of being one of these who shaped the America (or world), because this is not what he wanted.
Such is the life of a reclusive artist :)
N.B. - Walden Pond is not some mystical place out in the middle of nowhere, it's just outside of Concord, NH[0], site of one of the first battles of the American Revolution just 70 years prior. So, while it was idyllic, it was not like Thoreau was that far away from civilization. The middle of Concord is less than 1.5 miles (2.4km) away from the north shore where Thoreau lived.
[0] - https://www.google.com/maps/place/Walden+Pond,+Concord,+MA+0...
As I've gotten older (34 now), I keep moving further and further out, hoping to capture my own Walden experiences. So far, I've only had courage to get to the edge of the suburbs :(.
Archaeologists found that he had used an order of magnitude more nails than he needed to to build his shelter. He accidentally chopped off part of his toe. His sister brought him food every week.
So he moved fast, broke stuff, and explored self-sufficiency while receiving help from others.
From the link: "Thoreau’s love of nature and his advocacy of a simple life have had a large influence on modern conservation and environmentalist movements."
Beyond Walden, Thoreau's Resistance to Civil Government (also known by the title Civil Disobedience) has been cited as a major influence by civil rights leaders in the United States and abroad.
I don't think it'd be fair at all to say that Thoreau is forgotten in America, even if not everything about modern American life and culture conforms to what he might have wanted for the country.
(12, for the record)