Since Android grew in popularity, the Java language has been more popular than ever, which I'm sure helps Oracle by creating a large ecosystem of Java developers.
Now if developers start moving away from Oracle tools like they have in the past with Open Office, and I'm sure they will in the future thanks to their insistence on copyrighting APIs and keeping their software insecure and not allowing anyone else to look at it - well then, that would be no one but Oracle's own fault.
Agreed, but how much damage to society can the Oracle-asaurus do while thrashing around in the tarpit before it dies?
Currently, the copyright laws seem to benefit large, deep pocket players, not society as a whole. Oracle-the-Corporation can certainly use copyright law to inflict a lot of damage on everyone else while it spoils its own reputation and poisons markets & etc.
The world does not owe Oracle a place for Java as a mobile operating system. When you're the disrupted rather than the disruptor, your market gets destroyed. That's usually good rather than bad for society as a whole. That part isn't even actionable at law. So, Oracle: Deal with it.
Now, claiming that your copyrights have been violated is actionable at law. The Supreme Court let stand a decision that APIs are copyrightable (!), but Google still has a fair use defense that has not been ruled on.
If Oracle wins, Google's going to change the API for Android. Java will become less relevant, not more. Oracle may get some money for damages, but Java will lose.
> If Oracle wins, Google's going to change the API for Android.
No they are going to pay Oracle, they don't have much choice. They should have bought Sun years ago but Google was too greedy and thought it could get away with anything.
They're going to pay Oracle damages for what has already happened. They are not going to continue to use the Java API. They're going to have an alternate API ready to roll five minutes after they lose the last appeal for this suit. Depending on how the judgment is written, it might be enough to move stuff from the java package to a new android package.
Disclaimer: This is just my opinion. I don't speak for Google.
> If Oracle wins, Google's going to change the API for Android.
If Oracle wins (including the inevitable appeals of the final judgment), Google is going to have to either stop using the Java APIs or reach a licensing deal with Oracle (or, I suppose, buy Oracle outright, strip out and keep the IP that is valuable to Google's key strategic efforts -- like, e.g., the Java copyrights -- and then spin Oracle back out and sell it [0].)
I thought before Oracle acquired Sun, Java was released under the GPLv2. Can't Google (or anyone else) simply use Java under the GPL, or is the "infringing" code not part of that GPL'd release of Java?
Why do so many HN folks feel that Google is the savior here? The reality is that both oracle and Google are for-profit companies and hence both are greedy.
Talk to any old Sun employee and they will tell you how Google came and saw and took whatever they could, when they could have legally licensed j2me for a pittance. Thanks to that stupidity, they are now paying the lawyers.
On a separate note, more I think of it, Page/Brin getting out of the way and letting sane adults run sub-divisions is the best thing to happen to Google.
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[ 2.5 ms ] story [ 29.6 ms ] threadNow if developers start moving away from Oracle tools like they have in the past with Open Office, and I'm sure they will in the future thanks to their insistence on copyrighting APIs and keeping their software insecure and not allowing anyone else to look at it - well then, that would be no one but Oracle's own fault.
Agreed, but how much damage to society can the Oracle-asaurus do while thrashing around in the tarpit before it dies?
Currently, the copyright laws seem to benefit large, deep pocket players, not society as a whole. Oracle-the-Corporation can certainly use copyright law to inflict a lot of damage on everyone else while it spoils its own reputation and poisons markets & etc.
Now, claiming that your copyrights have been violated is actionable at law. The Supreme Court let stand a decision that APIs are copyrightable (!), but Google still has a fair use defense that has not been ruled on.
If Oracle wins, Google's going to change the API for Android. Java will become less relevant, not more. Oracle may get some money for damages, but Java will lose.
No they are going to pay Oracle, they don't have much choice. They should have bought Sun years ago but Google was too greedy and thought it could get away with anything.
Disclaimer: This is just my opinion. I don't speak for Google.
If Oracle wins (including the inevitable appeals of the final judgment), Google is going to have to either stop using the Java APIs or reach a licensing deal with Oracle (or, I suppose, buy Oracle outright, strip out and keep the IP that is valuable to Google's key strategic efforts -- like, e.g., the Java copyrights -- and then spin Oracle back out and sell it [0].)
[0] Let's call this the "MoMo shuffle".