Japan's population is aging quickly, as far as abandonded property goes this is only the tip of the iceburg. In the next 20 years 25% of the buildings are foretasted to be empty, and in fifty years they'll have lost a third of their population.
There are actually programs out in the countryside to give people subsidies and stipends to move out there -- in some cases, they'll even rent out large houses/apartments for a pittance as well as subsidizing utilities.
That's cool but has nothing to do with the article, which is about abandoned properties as a whole, resulting from the fact that Japan's population is rapidly shrinking....
I wonder how open Japan might become to accepting foreigner immigration in the future, especially westerners (Japan is pretty famously racist, I think westerners would tend to be one of their least distasteful sources of immigration). Hopefully, because the prospect of spending my retirement years there is highly enticing. I land and housing is as cheap as the article implies, it seems financially feasible.
And you will be competing for resources and attention with all the politely racist elderly that lived in that place since forever. Does not sound like a retirement plan for me.
> And you will be competing for resources and attention with all the politely racist elderly that lived in that place since forever. Does not sound like a retirement plan for me.
The currently-elderly might not be there by the time mistermann wants to move there.
In my experience, immigration as a westerner is pretty easy -- especially after the horror stories I hear about the U.S. You need to have some sort of sponsor (business is the most common) but overall the process is fairly painless, and relaxed.
Living here is fairly cheap as well -- especially if you're outside large cities.
Casual Racism is probably the biggest hurdle to living in Japan, especially outside of big cities. I've only had a handful of overt racism in the last 12 years, but there are constant reminders every day that you are not, in fact, Japanese. And it's not done through malice, but rather just pure curiosity.
I'm hoping that immigration policies get better in the future, but not holding my breath.
Yeah, there won't be any Japanese businessmen burning crosses on your lawn or whatever. Assholes like Shintaro Ishihara are about as bad as it gets (in "polite" company anyway), and you could probably have a 15-minute chat with him, as a Westerner, without realizing he's a racist old shit (not to mention sexist as well).
On the flip side though, if you're planning on staying long-term you should get used to whatever racism does exist, even if benign, as there is no escaping it and it is pervasive. If you can't do that then it's probably best to start making plans to leave. Japanese culture is not headed in any sort of direction where it's going to change, and the population is so overwhelmingly ethnically Japanese that enclaves are pretty much a non-starter as well. Unlike (so I've heard) the US, no matter how long you live here, no matter how well you speak the language, you will not ever truly belong regardless of where you go, who you associate with, community you join, et cetera.
Oh, and the job market for software engineering here is rubbish ;-)
No, racism is racism. Whether or not the racists are as open as some in the US are doesn't change the fact that it's still racism, and people are being denied jobs and housing based on race, or the ability to shop in some stores, get certain services, and even drink in some bars. That's racism, and it should be considered unacceptable everywhere.
I think the difference is that Asians don't feel guilty about being racist. There was never widespread slavery based on race in Asia and a corresponding backlash against it.
People are naturally prejudiced and they are not guilty about thinking people are different based on things like race. I think it is all over Asia.
Edit: the article also fails to mention the huge stigma attached with "abandoned" or bad luck homes .. If there's even a hint that someone died there, or that the abandonment was the result of hard luck it can damage a property's worth. Not to mention earthquake readiness of the homes - something on people's minds a lot since Tohoku 3/11.
From the vibe I got living there, having the locals "accustomed" to westerners in the context of US military presence is probably worse than not being accustomed at all. Attitude to the US presence in japan is generally ambivalent at best, hostile resentment at worst.
The other area familiarity with whiteys isn't exactly a positive is in some towns around Hokkaido. There, the experience is with russian fishermen, and the sentiment is clearly visible on signs by the door: "no foreigners".
All that said, I never was that bothered by the mild xenophobia one experiences in Japan (and elsewhere in east asia). It's bemusing more than anything else. I would imagine that non-caucasians have it somewhat worse, though.
I live in rural Japan. I've been here for 6 of the last 8 years (worked 2 years in the UK in the middle). In my estimation, Japanese people are not particularly racist. I've lived in Canada, the US and the UK in my life. I've seen less examples of problematic racism here in Japan than in the other places I've lived. As others have pointed out, the things that you tend to see are mostly just curiosity or ignorance. For example, people will stare at you in the country side. Children will come up and talk to you for no reason except that they've never met a foreigner before. People are surprised if you can use chopsticks, speak Japanese and read/write Japanese (actually the last one will particularly surprise people). I've occasionally had women with children waiting at a bus stop leave when I arrived, presumably because they were afraid of waiting at a bus stop alone with a foreigner around. That last bit is nothing I haven't seen everywhere in the world.
There is a certain cache to being a foreigner in Japan, especially if you are white and of North American or European background. It's harder for other people like Brazilians, Koreans and Chinese in Japan. However, I have never seen racism to the level that I've seen in other places that I've lived. I think that's not necessarily because Japanese people are less racist. It's just that Japanese culture does not encourage people to speak their mind openly about such things. If people are racist, you just aren't going to know about it most of the time.
I have to say that Japan is an extremely hard place to live as a foreigner if you wish to hold on to your foreign values. Japan is also a place where there is a strong sense of moral right and wrong. This sense is often directly opposed to the moral sense that some foreigners have (especially Americans in my experience). Because of this, some people have an incredibly rough time here. Unable to cope with the idea that a different set of moral values is OK, some people come away with the idea that Japanese people/culture is bad. It is particularly easy to come away with the idea that Japanese culture is racist because of the inside/outside nature of society (either you are inside a group or outside; the rules are different depending on where you are; you can't just decide to join/leave a group; etc).
Anyway, living here is very nice if you can adopt a 100% Japanese lifestyle. Either that or if you can just not care about not fitting in. I've seen both work well (the latter is exceptionally difficult, though). The problem is that many foreigners think they can pick and choose from Japanese culture and their own home culture. This is usually extremely bad and if you ever go to Japan, I would try to avoid that.
Having said all that, immigration is dramatically easier here than any of the other countries I mentioned. To work you just need a job offer and a university degree. The cost is fairly low (I think the visa costs about $1000).
I don't know how realistic coming here for retirement is, unless you have a lot of money. You can sponsor your own visa as a business person if you start a company with $50k capital (which is quite low compared to other countries).
Land and housing is quite cheap where I live. You can easily buy a small (2 bedroom) house for $100k. Large north american style houses go for about $300k. Cost of living is quite low, but there are certain things that are very expensive. A good example is that fruit and vegetables are often twice the price that you'll be used to (or even more). However, food is a pretty small percentage of most people's budget. In contrast, eating out is very cheap here, if you eat Japanese food. It's very, very easy to get a huge meal of healthy food for about $5 in the country side. Even in Tokyo, you could easily eat out for $7-$10 per person (in fact, I did so this weekend). And there is no tipping.
I hear this a lot and I'm not sure where people get it from. In my experience Japanese overwhelmingly discriminate between races - that is, they see themselves as a separate race from everyone else. But to me racism implies discriminating against races, and naturally that happens but I've never heard any evidence that it's notably worse here than elsewhere.
For example, a black friend once commented that Japan felt more welcoming than home (New York), because here, while he was seen as a foreigner, he also wasn't seen as any different from any other foreigner.
That is the american experience. In the US racism is often defined as oppression of one race by another. There must be a power differential. Taken to the extreme, this allows groups like the KKK to state that they are not racist if they only seek separation rather than oppression. On the flip side, many black americans believe that black people cannot ever be racist because, as an oppressed minority, they lack the necessary power. Both views are extremist nonsense imho but are not uncommon in the US.
Some of this can be seen in US political speech. If you first ascribe power to a group then you may attack them without being "racist". The talking heads speak openly about the black/white/latino vote because as voters they are not "oppressed". Statements about such groups are therefore not racist. But you won't see a Canadian newscaster talk of such things. (At least not on a canadian channel. Half of CNN is canadian these days.)
Most of the developed world sees racism as the attitude that races should be treated differently even if under the guise of equality. Japan has issues that while unique to Japan are not more substantial than those faced in many western nations.
Frankly I've no idea what any of that had to do with my post. Japan is not America; in a country that's (considered) 98-99% monoracial the sorts of issues you're talking about basically don't come up.
More broadly, Japan doesn't really concern itself with "race" at all - rather it sees race, culture, ethnicity and nationality as one big indivisible clump. When someone experiences bias or discrimination here, in most cases it'll be all those things at once - i.e. a matter of "not being Japanese", rather than race per se. That's what my friend was commenting on.
I think they were just pointing out that equating the racism seen in the US to the racism seen in Japan skews opinions. Racism is racism, no matter how overt or covert. Racism is defined as "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior." While in Japan you may not face much overt 'antagonism', you do, from what I'd read frequently, encounter overt and covert 'prejudice' as a non-Japanese.
So, your post referenced a person from the US as an example of Japan not being racism, but that seems like a simple matter of severity based on previous experience.
It's comparable to any world-class city, and significantly cheaper than, say, San Francisco or London (especially if you consider the age/condition of apartments). The population of the Tokyo area is still growing, so I'm guessing people are just moving more towards the city's center.
> especially if you consider the age/condition of apartments
But apartment buildings in Tokyo are terrible. Fifteen years is considered "old" and that's not due to high standards - it's because after fifteen years the building is falling apart. I also suspect that if you compare rent per square meter, you're right you'll still have higher prices than London at least and probably SF as well, but significantly cheaper might be a stretch. $2500/month for 500 sq ft is expensive anywhere.
(And if the rent doesn't get you, parking will, though it's very easy to live without a car in Tokyo.)
You're right about the parking bit but I have a hard time believing you about the rent or the building quality. I lived in Kanagawa for 5 years in a very old (for Japanese standards) apartment building, and it was rock solid. Don't forget that these buildings are designed to withstand earthquakes, whereas London buildings are just slowly rotting away. Regarding rent: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?coun...
Nowadays I'm living in London and have seen housing for way higher prices and way, way worse condition than the apartments I've seen in Tokyo. London build quality is utterly terrible. Japanese build quality is quality.
There are basically two approaches to multiresidence buildings in Japan. There are "mansions": large, modern and built to last, normally all concrete and having a single common entrance, and then there are "apaato": usually 2-3 stories, separate entrances, typically wooden, and ramshackle after 10-15 years. Both styles are common; sounds to me like you guys are comparing opposite ends of the spectrum.
33 comments
[ 3.9 ms ] story [ 69.6 ms ] thread1. Different municipalities are addressing the countryside population decline in different ways.
2. Different municipalities are addressing the abandoned property problem in different ways.
It seems directly relevant to me.
The currently-elderly might not be there by the time mistermann wants to move there.
Living here is fairly cheap as well -- especially if you're outside large cities.
Casual Racism is probably the biggest hurdle to living in Japan, especially outside of big cities. I've only had a handful of overt racism in the last 12 years, but there are constant reminders every day that you are not, in fact, Japanese. And it's not done through malice, but rather just pure curiosity.
I'm hoping that immigration policies get better in the future, but not holding my breath.
As someone interested in Japan, would you mind elaborating on this please?
I think that a certain degree of delicacy when you make statements like that.
I know what you're trying to say, and I think its true, but I think one has to be careful with the word "racist" and how the audience interprets it.
In my opinion, and as a generalization, "racism" in Japan is less sinister than "racism" in the other parts of the world. Especially the US.
(Disclaimer: I am a foreigner living in Japan, but not for very long yet.)
On the flip side though, if you're planning on staying long-term you should get used to whatever racism does exist, even if benign, as there is no escaping it and it is pervasive. If you can't do that then it's probably best to start making plans to leave. Japanese culture is not headed in any sort of direction where it's going to change, and the population is so overwhelmingly ethnically Japanese that enclaves are pretty much a non-starter as well. Unlike (so I've heard) the US, no matter how long you live here, no matter how well you speak the language, you will not ever truly belong regardless of where you go, who you associate with, community you join, et cetera.
Oh, and the job market for software engineering here is rubbish ;-)
I'm not in software engineering ;)
People are naturally prejudiced and they are not guilty about thinking people are different based on things like race. I think it is all over Asia.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yokosuka,_Kanagawa
Edit: the article also fails to mention the huge stigma attached with "abandoned" or bad luck homes .. If there's even a hint that someone died there, or that the abandonment was the result of hard luck it can damage a property's worth. Not to mention earthquake readiness of the homes - something on people's minds a lot since Tohoku 3/11.
The other area familiarity with whiteys isn't exactly a positive is in some towns around Hokkaido. There, the experience is with russian fishermen, and the sentiment is clearly visible on signs by the door: "no foreigners".
All that said, I never was that bothered by the mild xenophobia one experiences in Japan (and elsewhere in east asia). It's bemusing more than anything else. I would imagine that non-caucasians have it somewhat worse, though.
There is a certain cache to being a foreigner in Japan, especially if you are white and of North American or European background. It's harder for other people like Brazilians, Koreans and Chinese in Japan. However, I have never seen racism to the level that I've seen in other places that I've lived. I think that's not necessarily because Japanese people are less racist. It's just that Japanese culture does not encourage people to speak their mind openly about such things. If people are racist, you just aren't going to know about it most of the time.
I have to say that Japan is an extremely hard place to live as a foreigner if you wish to hold on to your foreign values. Japan is also a place where there is a strong sense of moral right and wrong. This sense is often directly opposed to the moral sense that some foreigners have (especially Americans in my experience). Because of this, some people have an incredibly rough time here. Unable to cope with the idea that a different set of moral values is OK, some people come away with the idea that Japanese people/culture is bad. It is particularly easy to come away with the idea that Japanese culture is racist because of the inside/outside nature of society (either you are inside a group or outside; the rules are different depending on where you are; you can't just decide to join/leave a group; etc).
Anyway, living here is very nice if you can adopt a 100% Japanese lifestyle. Either that or if you can just not care about not fitting in. I've seen both work well (the latter is exceptionally difficult, though). The problem is that many foreigners think they can pick and choose from Japanese culture and their own home culture. This is usually extremely bad and if you ever go to Japan, I would try to avoid that.
Having said all that, immigration is dramatically easier here than any of the other countries I mentioned. To work you just need a job offer and a university degree. The cost is fairly low (I think the visa costs about $1000).
I don't know how realistic coming here for retirement is, unless you have a lot of money. You can sponsor your own visa as a business person if you start a company with $50k capital (which is quite low compared to other countries).
Land and housing is quite cheap where I live. You can easily buy a small (2 bedroom) house for $100k. Large north american style houses go for about $300k. Cost of living is quite low, but there are certain things that are very expensive. A good example is that fruit and vegetables are often twice the price that you'll be used to (or even more). However, food is a pretty small percentage of most people's budget. In contrast, eating out is very cheap here, if you eat Japanese food. It's very, very easy to get a huge meal of healthy food for about $5 in the country side. Even in Tokyo, you could easily eat out for $7-$10 per person (in fact, I did so this weekend). And there is no tipping.
I hear this a lot and I'm not sure where people get it from. In my experience Japanese overwhelmingly discriminate between races - that is, they see themselves as a separate race from everyone else. But to me racism implies discriminating against races, and naturally that happens but I've never heard any evidence that it's notably worse here than elsewhere.
For example, a black friend once commented that Japan felt more welcoming than home (New York), because here, while he was seen as a foreigner, he also wasn't seen as any different from any other foreigner.
Some of this can be seen in US political speech. If you first ascribe power to a group then you may attack them without being "racist". The talking heads speak openly about the black/white/latino vote because as voters they are not "oppressed". Statements about such groups are therefore not racist. But you won't see a Canadian newscaster talk of such things. (At least not on a canadian channel. Half of CNN is canadian these days.)
Most of the developed world sees racism as the attitude that races should be treated differently even if under the guise of equality. Japan has issues that while unique to Japan are not more substantial than those faced in many western nations.
More broadly, Japan doesn't really concern itself with "race" at all - rather it sees race, culture, ethnicity and nationality as one big indivisible clump. When someone experiences bias or discrimination here, in most cases it'll be all those things at once - i.e. a matter of "not being Japanese", rather than race per se. That's what my friend was commenting on.
So, your post referenced a person from the US as an example of Japan not being racism, but that seems like a simple matter of severity based on previous experience.
Over-the-top xenophobia, or even "rationalized" xenophobia, is quite bad.
Things tend to be Japanese and "Everybody else", and everybody else can't be trusted to behave correctly.
But apartment buildings in Tokyo are terrible. Fifteen years is considered "old" and that's not due to high standards - it's because after fifteen years the building is falling apart. I also suspect that if you compare rent per square meter, you're right you'll still have higher prices than London at least and probably SF as well, but significantly cheaper might be a stretch. $2500/month for 500 sq ft is expensive anywhere.
(And if the rent doesn't get you, parking will, though it's very easy to live without a car in Tokyo.)
Nowadays I'm living in London and have seen housing for way higher prices and way, way worse condition than the apartments I've seen in Tokyo. London build quality is utterly terrible. Japanese build quality is quality.
And even if it was, it still adds up. Rent in Manhattan is ridiculous. But you still find abandoned houses all over Detroit.