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Ask HN: Why is it legal to privately register a domain?

4 points by tallerholler ↗ HN
What is the legal basis for this? When someone builds a building or trademark's a name, their information is public domain. Why are domain's allowed to be privately registered and hidden from the public domain?

14 comments

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dalke
I don't understand the basis of your question. If it's not specifically required then it's legal.

Building permits and trademarks are required to be public. Other records are not required.

Consider corporate ownership. Some US states allows anonymous corporate ownership. (See http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2012/10/09/its-time-to... complaining about such companies.) If it's okay to own a company without that information being public, then why not a domain?

Such companies are used as shell companies. If you want to trademark a name but not have others know that it's you, then start a Nevada LLC, owned by a Delaware LLC, owned by a company registered in the Cayman Islands, owned by you, and have the Nevada company take out the trademark.

Also, the term you want is 'hidden from the public' not 'hidden from the public domain.' "Public domain" applies to, for example, works that were under copyright but are no longer so.

tallerholler
> If it's okay to own a company without that information being public, then why not a domain?

Because domains are finite and hold more importance to a business than an actual business name does and by allowing private registration it encourages various entities to sit on the domain indefinitely and prevent others from creating value with it.

wvenable
I fail to see the connection. If private registration was not allowed, people could still sit on a domain indefinitely. I'm sure many people do this already without private registration.

I use private registration on a few of my domains to avoid unnecessary harassment.

dalke
I see several limitations in your analysis.

The fundamental one is your insistence on "value." Where is that requirement? How do you define value? If I want 'dalke-email.com' as an email for me and my friends, without a web server or any attached business, then is that sufficient value? What about 'dalke-cat.com', a memorial site in memory of my cat - if a business wants the name, does it get priority over a site that no one else visits?

Assume I have a new-born child named 'Kelly', and buy the domain name 'kellydalke.com', so that I can transfer it a a birthday present in 18 years. Is that value? To you, no, but to me, absolutely yes.

How should the arbitration organization determine things? If your stealth-mode company takes too long to be public, can your domain name be taken away because it hasn't yet contributed value?

tallerholler
You have valid points... I think it sucks that people can sit on domains without using them but you can always make the argument for why they should be allowed to.

So now I have to decide between a .tv or .io domain (or hey I can use .rocks, .world, .xyz!!!)

Do you think it is too risky to keep a name for a social startup (that has big potential) when the .com is taken? if it gets funded and gains traction, is there more of a chance of acquiring the domain down the line?

detaro
Have you checked if you have legal means to get the domain? Here in Germany a trademark holder would have reasonable chances of getting control of a domain for the trademark if it isn't used.
tallerholler
I haven't checked but it's a valid point. I think we're going to register the trademark anyways just in case it helps the cause.

One of my co-founders says he thinks that registering it after the fact won't have much affect but who knows. Also, the defunct public relations company that had the same name appears to not be in business and hasnt been for at least ~4-5 years...

detaro
EDIT: for everyone reading, see also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10113303 for context of OPs question

The legal basis is that there are no stronger requirements as "there has to be somebody listed" made by the registry for the TLD, which is a (more-or-less, depending on the case) private entity and can set those rules, within the ICANN guidelines.

more theoretical: Why shouldn't it be allowed?

Building ownership or IP can also be done "privately" through companies. I bet many people owning domains are thankful that their personal information is NOT so easily accessible, and if there is a strong public need (legal case, prosecution) the intermediaries will hand out the information. Where required they'll also forward messages they are sent.

FWIW, here in Germany it is harder to do so and I don't like it, because it connects my website to myself a bit too easily, and I don't even publish particularly critical stuff.

What need do you have that is more important than the rights of the owner?

dalke
Thanks for the context. It make much better sense now.
tallerholler
Why it shouldn't be allowed is it lets people sit on domains and not use them for an indefinite period of time. Being able to sit on it for a short period of time seems reasonable but for years and years to sit on a domain and not use it seems like it hurts the industry.

Additionally as you pointed out by linking my previous post, I find it very questionable that the same company that charges people to hide their domain (and host them), can then also charge people to backdoor communicate with those same sellers. This seems like a shady business practice.

detaro
What does people owning domains and not using them for a long time have to do with them hiding who they are? What would you gain from knowing who they are? If you are in a position where you can force them to release the domain (e.g. because of trademarks) you can be quite sure that the registrar will either reveal the client or hand over the domain.

I didn't comment on the other point because I don't know enough about how both involved offers look like exactly.

ryanlol
Domains aren't generally "privately registered", but instead the WHOIS info is replaced with a forwarding service. Similar arrangements are fairly common with companies and trademarks.
tmaly
my understanding is the private ones are actually assigning ownership to this private holding company. They show their info instead of yours. There is a small risk you could lose your domain if they decided to run with it.