Wow. I can't imagine having my wife and daughter living in a shelter. That must be horrible.
I can't help but wonder if his background works against him in some ways. I've been in some pretty harsh meetings when we look at someone's background and if they seem a little strange in any way we don't even consider them.
Considering the hard time my company has hiring in Boston and I'd imagine the same is true in San Francisco (with no real information) I'm surprised no one has taken a chance on him yet. Wouldn't a lot of companies at least consider someone with a CS degree fresh out of school? Seems like someone worth talking to at least maybe.
Based on my personal experience, a lot of companies in SF will tend to take someone without a degree but with good experience, over someone with a fresh CS degree but no experience.
Yeah that's been my experience too. I don't have a degree and I've never had an issue finding a job because my experience is good and I interview pretty well. The only trouble I ever have is that some companies won't consider me at all because of the lack of a degree.
We don't really know how well he does in interviews. Maybe he bombs them--maybe he didn't learn anything very well, or maybe he has horrible communication skills, or maybe he shows up hours late, or maybe he just isn't good at interviews. Maybe his resume is impossible to read. There's a lot of relevant info we don't have.
Anyway, it's interesting to know that you can become homeless without being crazy. But I don't think you can draw many other conclusions from this article--e.g., about the state of the economy, or about the nature of homelessness.
I could say a million things, but they would all be snarky and mean (this comment has gone through at least 50 revisions). So I'll just say this: Any developer worth their salt could find a job within 24 hours of being in this city. How do I know? I recently moved here and within a few days, I already had recruiters emailing me for jobs. Even if you just know HTML, it's impossible to be homeless here. Why is this guy hiding? Where is your twitter? Where is your github? Where is your stackoverflow? Where is your blog? Those things are all important to making yourself attractive to jobs. By "no experience" those recruiters probably meant "we haven't heard of you" or "cant find any evidence of your skill online". I know plenty of people who probably know less than this guy, but have cushy jobs, even in this economy, in cities less techy than SF. Only difference is they disclose their last name and market themselves properly.
Yeah I can't help but wonder if he doesn't know the online culture very well. I know a lot of people who don't do anything on stackoverflow barely know what Twitter is, don't read a single blog much less write one. I don't get it but they seem to be able to get a job without doing much of anything. They're also rarely useful but that's another issue.
I don't get it but they seem to be able to get a job without doing much of anything. They're also rarely useful but that's another issue.
It's incredibly strange that you view not twittering, spending time on stackoverflow, or blogging as not doing anything.
By that standard, absolutely all of the best people I've worked with in the past decade are useless, and some of the worst people I've worked with pass your test with flying colors.
I'm not generalizing to the idea that bloggers and stackoverflow users are all useless. I'm taking the far more sane position that blogging, twittering and stockoverflowing are uncorrelated to work ethic and talent.
After a decade of working as a chef, he was looking forward to finding a job as a Web developer.
Calling him a web developer is a bit of a stretch. He initiated a career change in the middle of the recession (albeit caused by the recession as well).
I have to disagree. In fact, I think you're resorting to a bit of hyperbole there. Knowing HTML won't save you from being homeless, and most people won't find jobs here within twenty-four hours. Yes, it helps to have a good name, a good resume and an Internet presence, but some of us don't bother, and I know a lot of employers that don't care. Besides, the guy is fresh out of college and launching a new career in his 30's, with a family.
"... So I'll just say this: Any developer worth their salt could find a job within 24 hours of being in this city. ..."
By ascribing success to meritocracy, you also by definition ascribe failure to lack of merit or application. This is platently false. The failure here is to not recognise that merit isn't the only reason for being employed, unempolyed and underemployed. [0]
Basically, this guy isn't a web developer. He's an ex-chef who has a degree in software engineering. There's no indication that he's even built a website.
I really feel for him and his family, but it's not like this indicates a problem for web devs looking for work in SF, so I'm not really sure it's relevant to HN.
It sounds to me like a major obstacle for him is lack of experience. I'd have a quick answer for that by offering any company I interviewed with (where I wanted the job) a "free trial", and work for free for 1-2 months as a consultant/intern. The trick is just getting in the door.
I'm currently working in Seattle, where this guy was before - I think he was misguided in moving to SF when he couldn't even get a web dev job in Seattle.
Firstly, it sounds like he went to WSU, not UW, which around here certainly is not a well-reputed university. So his degree doesn't earn him any brownie points at any employers.
Secondly, there are a lot of web dev (but we're talking backend code also, not just frontend dev) in the Seattle area, and we are hiring like mad. That being said, the big names around here source from all over the world, not to mention all over the USA - if you do not have a prestigious degree, and/or years of experience and a portfolio that blows people away, you will go nowhere real fast.
At the risk of being presumptuous, but having seen this particular story too many times, it sounds like he had a lot of illusions about what it would take to succeed as a web dev, and expected his education to carry him through his job search, where the reality was that experience trumps almost everything else in this field.
I imagine moving to SF made all of the above worse, not better.
I don't really understand why this is news-worthy - he took a risk and lost. The safer path would have been to keep working as a chef and then mix-in the career change, perhaps by starting a cooking-related website, blog, Facebook app, whatever.
I find it quite difficult to believe that a chef with 10 years of experience could not find a job in Seattle. This beggars belief.
In short, don't tempt economic fate when you have a wife and kid and live in the USA - you should not count on ANY social support in this country.
<i>In short, don't tempt economic fate when you have a wife and kid and live in the USA - you should not count on ANY social support in this country.</i>
Or a job in a kitchen here in SF. We have more restaurants per capita than any other city in the world bar Paris. Even if it was just prep or even dish washing - it would have been some $.
It also seems like he didn't have any network here in SF, or try to build one. So many free tech events going on every night that you would think he would attend them to get a network going.
I genuinely feel sorry for this dude but he certainly made a lot of mistakes that don't indicate good judgment (the kind of "non-tech" smarts you look for in a good dev, as it happens)
The key element to this story is that we have a person who seemingly has (1) no contacts in the valley, (2) no relevant work experience, apparently (3) no portfolio, in an economy that has (4) north of 10% unemployment.
I was unable to tell from the story what the individual's actual skill levels were in this field - usually where a portfolio comes in handy.
Any one of those four would be problematic. Put all four together and I'm not sure where the story is. Actually _finding_ a job with all four strikes against you would make for quite a story, actually.
I empathize with the guy though - that has to be an amazingly tough slog, coming to a new city, unable to shelter his family, and then having a family loan fall through at the last moment. The only good news is that it looks like he's found a place to live.
In general though, I don't think we can use it as an anecdote to accurately reflect the opportunities available for the hacker community in the valley. Though there may be some meta story about the importance of creating your own job.
If there is one thing I'd tell him, talk more about your comp sci skills than the pity angle which I understand reporters love but it doesn't result in a job as much.
This also made me think about different family cultures. In my immediate as well as extended family, you are almost EXPECTED to help a family member in this position. The downside to it is you have leecher families that don't work. The upside is I have to go back several generations on my family tree to find a family that is homeless and struggling.
Having grown up in the US(I was born in India) I struggle every now and then about this idea of distributed wealth. It often means fewer vacations even if you are making a killing because you always have someone in your extended family who isn't as well off and needs your help. Longterm though there is no doubt I prefer this shared wealth model. If this guy was in our family he would not be homeless. I know this because at any given time we have a family who is in his position. The larger family helps and in most cases they rebound again and no longer need help.
In my immediate family, we all agreed a while ago that any individual venture by my brothers will be equally owned by all three of us. My uncles have a similar agreement.
17 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 50.9 ms ] threadI can't help but wonder if his background works against him in some ways. I've been in some pretty harsh meetings when we look at someone's background and if they seem a little strange in any way we don't even consider them.
Considering the hard time my company has hiring in Boston and I'd imagine the same is true in San Francisco (with no real information) I'm surprised no one has taken a chance on him yet. Wouldn't a lot of companies at least consider someone with a CS degree fresh out of school? Seems like someone worth talking to at least maybe.
Anyway, it's interesting to know that you can become homeless without being crazy. But I don't think you can draw many other conclusions from this article--e.g., about the state of the economy, or about the nature of homelessness.
It's incredibly strange that you view not twittering, spending time on stackoverflow, or blogging as not doing anything.
By that standard, absolutely all of the best people I've worked with in the past decade are useless, and some of the worst people I've worked with pass your test with flying colors.
I'm not generalizing to the idea that bloggers and stackoverflow users are all useless. I'm taking the far more sane position that blogging, twittering and stockoverflowing are uncorrelated to work ethic and talent.
After a decade of working as a chef, he was looking forward to finding a job as a Web developer.
Calling him a web developer is a bit of a stretch. He initiated a career change in the middle of the recession (albeit caused by the recession as well).
By ascribing success to meritocracy, you also by definition ascribe failure to lack of merit or application. This is platently false. The failure here is to not recognise that merit isn't the only reason for being employed, unempolyed and underemployed. [0]
[0] "A kinder, gentler philosophy of success": http://www.ted.com/talks/alain_de_botton_a_kinder_gentler_ph...
I really feel for him and his family, but it's not like this indicates a problem for web devs looking for work in SF, so I'm not really sure it's relevant to HN.
Firstly, it sounds like he went to WSU, not UW, which around here certainly is not a well-reputed university. So his degree doesn't earn him any brownie points at any employers.
Secondly, there are a lot of web dev (but we're talking backend code also, not just frontend dev) in the Seattle area, and we are hiring like mad. That being said, the big names around here source from all over the world, not to mention all over the USA - if you do not have a prestigious degree, and/or years of experience and a portfolio that blows people away, you will go nowhere real fast.
At the risk of being presumptuous, but having seen this particular story too many times, it sounds like he had a lot of illusions about what it would take to succeed as a web dev, and expected his education to carry him through his job search, where the reality was that experience trumps almost everything else in this field.
I imagine moving to SF made all of the above worse, not better.
I find it quite difficult to believe that a chef with 10 years of experience could not find a job in Seattle. This beggars belief.
In short, don't tempt economic fate when you have a wife and kid and live in the USA - you should not count on ANY social support in this country.
Or a job in a kitchen here in SF. We have more restaurants per capita than any other city in the world bar Paris. Even if it was just prep or even dish washing - it would have been some $.
It also seems like he didn't have any network here in SF, or try to build one. So many free tech events going on every night that you would think he would attend them to get a network going.
I genuinely feel sorry for this dude but he certainly made a lot of mistakes that don't indicate good judgment (the kind of "non-tech" smarts you look for in a good dev, as it happens)
I was unable to tell from the story what the individual's actual skill levels were in this field - usually where a portfolio comes in handy.
Any one of those four would be problematic. Put all four together and I'm not sure where the story is. Actually _finding_ a job with all four strikes against you would make for quite a story, actually.
I empathize with the guy though - that has to be an amazingly tough slog, coming to a new city, unable to shelter his family, and then having a family loan fall through at the last moment. The only good news is that it looks like he's found a place to live.
In general though, I don't think we can use it as an anecdote to accurately reflect the opportunities available for the hacker community in the valley. Though there may be some meta story about the importance of creating your own job.
This also made me think about different family cultures. In my immediate as well as extended family, you are almost EXPECTED to help a family member in this position. The downside to it is you have leecher families that don't work. The upside is I have to go back several generations on my family tree to find a family that is homeless and struggling.
Having grown up in the US(I was born in India) I struggle every now and then about this idea of distributed wealth. It often means fewer vacations even if you are making a killing because you always have someone in your extended family who isn't as well off and needs your help. Longterm though there is no doubt I prefer this shared wealth model. If this guy was in our family he would not be homeless. I know this because at any given time we have a family who is in his position. The larger family helps and in most cases they rebound again and no longer need help.
In my immediate family, we all agreed a while ago that any individual venture by my brothers will be equally owned by all three of us. My uncles have a similar agreement.