Fair question. Develop web apps, really. But I'm pretty open, and plan to leave my "what I want to do for you" for the cover letter when applying for a specific job.
Cool. I can't speak for their current interview process, but I went through the phone screen mechanism a few years back. My problem was that I wasn't sufficiently focused in one area; I tried to market myself as both a Systems Engineer and a Software Developer (which is common for start-up-prone types such as myself). My biggest take-away from the interview process was that that was a bad idea. I suggest that you focus on a particular area; web apps alone is still possibly not specific enough. They'll perhaps want to know what specific technologies or facets of modern web apps you are into and proficient in.
Of course, that was then and this is now. Some other HNers probably have better advice:)
Oh dear! Good catch, that's embarrassing. I did a recursive "wc" but then read the wrong column. It's only 21,000 lines. :-| Fixed now: at 21kLOC, is it still a figure worth including?
I don't really think so. You're really trying to measure the scale of your work. Better metrics would be what specifications you implemented, features you added, scalability (# of users or servers). You wrote 21k lines of code, but code wasn't your end result. That code did something beyond getting piped into wc, I hope. :)
I think that if you're going after a job in our field these days, you ABSOLUTELY should have a resume like this. Actually, it is less a resume and more a carefully crafted sales pitch for yourself. You can do so much selling it isn't funny -- links to your OSS contributions, etc. (I would have surfaced the code more quickly than you do in your resume, but this is a very minor nitpick. Oh, and if you have a blog, you have at least one or two articles on it which are exemplars of your best work. Link those directly.)
My one suggestion is that your sales presentation says an awful lot about you and not that much about Google. That goes against pretty much everything I know about sales. ("But its a resume! It should be about me!" No, that is a meaningless tradition perpetuated by people who are much less savvy than you are.)
If I wanted to get a job at Google, I would make it obvious that I understand Google's business about as well as I understand Ruby, or better. Talk about how your experience with MicroPledge prepares you to deal with web-scale computing. (Even if it doesn't, demonstrate that you understand the differences.) Talk about how your e-commerce experience at Gifty gets you inside the head of Google's customers, and how you understand Internet advertising on a deep level because it determined whether you ate or not. (The truth that I advise you to keep at the foremost of your mind and not say out loud: Google is an advertising company.)
I know when I've written with paper resumes, I've always rewritten the resume to suit the job application (in addition to writing an extremely specific cover letter.)
I don't know how that works when it's a personal web page. If the OP really only wants that web page to read by (and accepted by) Google, I guess they can do the same thing. :).
I don't know how that works when it's a personal web page.
If I hypothetically wanted to get a job at Google, I would have two versions of example.com/resume -- one for general consumption, and one which told the user that I've determined their IP is in the Googleplex and have customized the content to fit their needs. I'd probably also put a discussion of cloaking, Google's user experience guidelines, and why this is solidly within them as an aside in a lightbox or maybe a link to another page.
For similar reasons, I'd mention to the user that they are participating in an A/B test of my resume. (Honestly, it doesn't matter what the results of the test are: this is purely theatre to demonstrate to the user that I'm the kind of guy who would A/B test his resume. It also tells you that I'm the kind of guy who thinks his resume is a engineering/marketing challenge rather than a desktop publishing task.)
That'd be freakishly cool. Definitely get some attention that way.
There's actually a secondary problem that this exposes, though: is it actually possible to submit a resume to Google as a URL?
I submitted a "cold" Google job application a couple of years ago, and back then there was a short list of supported resume formats, with a strong hint towards using plain text.
The speculation was that most resumes get computationally screened before a human even reads them. (I didn't get a call back, btw.)
If that's the "front door", you'll need to somehow get in the "back door". I suppose having your resume on the front page of HN could be a good start to that. ;)
If that's the "front door", you'll need to somehow get in the "back door".
This is the single most important piece of jobseeking advice I can give anyone. Joel Spolsky had an article some years ago on how the best candidates are never on the public job market, because they get snapped up on the private offers. He wrote from the perspective of "As a business owner, it sure sucks looking in the slush pile of resumes, because none of the good people are in it.", but the applicant's side of the coin is similar: You're a good candidate, right? So don't go to the slush pile!
I suppose having your resume on the front page of HN could be a good start to that.
As fun as waiting by the phone and hoping to get a job offer is, I'd suggest you instead either talk to a Googler you know or get someone you know who owes you a favor to introduce you to a Googler. (Networking: not just for ethernet packets.) All you need to do is convince someone to convince someone to visit a URL, preferably with an endorsement. ("Hey Bob, got a second? My buddy $NAME is dying to get into Google. Know anybody who could use a brilliant engineer who did good work for me? $URL")
Usually... not always, but usually... people get paid very real money to find a great candidate for the company. The person you talk to in your target company to get in the door isn't even doing you a favor.
That's really thoughtful feedback, thanks. I wasn't quite sure -- is your third paragraph an explanation of how to put your second paragraph ("saying a lot about Google") into practice?
The following feedback probably isn't google-specific, and it's really just nitpicking, but I would say:
- "move to the U.S. for about two years in mid-2010". AFAIK, most employers (maybe not Google) would probably rather just hear "move to the US in mid-2010".
- "Skills: I can... develop web applications". This section can be rephrased as "Skills: I have... developed web applications", etc. This is a job application tip I've had drummed into me, to always stress what you have done rather than what you can do.
- It might sound better to slap a better title than "long-time friend" on your third reference. Maybe you two collaborated on a project at some point?
- Hehe @ the Fermat reference. Nice touch.
Just my myopic 2c, and like I said it's really mostly nitpicking. :).
Google likes to ask lots of algorithmic questions in rapid succession. At least they did when I interviewed. Knowing of a solution or library was not good enough (they seem to reinvent their own 'everything' anyway, perhaps for good reason?). If I wanted to work there, I would practice doing classic CS problems on a whiteboard in front of friends beforehand, it's much different than real life where you can look stuff up, mull things over a cup of coffee, take a walk, etc. They were in my face the whole time.
i second this. know basic data structures and algorithms. they are not going to ask you to implement red-black trees but they'll probably ask questions that require you to use hash tables or priority queues. know how to implement these and their running times.
and definitely practice solving problems on the whiteboard. its completely different. if its within the realm of comfort also get used to thinking out loud in the interview. some people really can't do this but i've found, both as an interviewer and interviewee, its really helpful.
your resume will basically get you a phone screen, beyond that i suspect its irrelevant.
(for the record, i've interviewed with the GOOG and was offered a job)
My friends have all had similar experiences, though most of them were interviewing straight out of undergrad, so it may have been a little different. Have seriously in-depth knowledge of the languages you claim to know, practice solving problems under pressure, and have a strong algorithmic foundation. They seem to have a reputation for being rude, but it's a competitive market and they're looking for the best.
Things are pretty similar where I work. We will look at most people if their resume lists the relevant technologies, but the phone screen and in-person interviews are very tough. There are so many liars out there that resumes aren't a very good filter. Even academic pedigree doesn't seem to count much in the software development world, though it counts more if you're doing more research-y/academic things like machine learning.
Actually, all three are correct. From http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/r%C3%A9sum%C3%A9#Usage_notes -- "In the US, there are three major spellings of this word: résumé, resumé, and resume. All three are in common usage and all three are occasionally contested. The usual justification for each is usually as follows..."
Update: Being pragmatic, I should probably use "resume", because that's how Google Jobs spells it.
As a rule, if you're going to make someone feel ignorant, do so in a way that's relevant to the job. That rule would imply cutting the link to Chesterton (if they get the reference, they'll appreciate it) and possibly the Hofstader's Law reference, too.
In general, very nice. I used to be a recruiter, and I wish I'd gotten more résumés like this. (Keep in mind that the average recruiter, perhaps even at Google, will prefer a résumé that lists jobs, education maybe skills, and nothing else. The filters in recruiting are designed to suppress originality, since there are far more original ways to make the wrong decision than to make the right one.)
As a rule, if you're going to make someone feel ignorant, do so in a way that's relevant to the job.
Agreed, but...
That rule would imply cutting the link to Chesterton (if they get the reference, they'll appreciate it) and possibly the Hofstader's Law reference, too.
I wonder why do you assume people who know Chesterton would appreciate the reference. Just saying that you like Chesterton might suggest religious and philosophical beliefs that aren't necessarily appreciated by your average young liberal geek. I'm not saying people will dismiss OP right away just because of this, but unconscious discrimination does happen.
On the other hand, Hofstadter is both well known and generally liked among geeks.
The first thing that caught my attention was the bit about "U.S. born".
In the USA it is illegal to ask about country of origin (as well as age, gender, religious beliefs, marital status).
I've heard of hiring managers discarding CVs outright if they contain information that is illegal to ask about, though I have no idea what the practices at Google are.
Recommended reading: "Land the Tech Job You Love" by Andy Lester, published by The Pragmatic Bookshelf.
Hmmm, interesting point. I wonder if it really matters. I put that there only so they know I'm a U.S. citizen and hence have legal right to work there. Can you suggest a succinct alternative?
It's legal to disclose one's religion, marital status, and sexual orientation on a resume as well, but I think it would scare a hiring manager off.
Saying you're eligible to work somewhere is different than disclosing your nationality. One is a material part of the hiring process; the other is something people discriminate on.
Stick to the things that actually affect job performance. It keeps the process fair for everyone.
Having a referral pretty much lets you skip the majority of the line at most companies. It also lets you get by even if your resume is not particularly stellar but your skills are. Google, in particular, makes an effort to do onsite interviews with most referrals (unless you disqualify yourself via a variety of different ways).
Having a friend there also means you get a lot of help along the way, advice about what to study for, hints, etc. So all around, its a good idea.
Thanks for the link to that Steve Yegge post -- do you know if he's still batching up and submitting resumes as per the bottom of his post? Do you have any other suggestions for networking into Google (I don't know anyone directly who works there)?
Are you looking for jobs at startups, who want to build web-apps. We're a Ruby + Rails shop, but there are many python startups doing wonderful things in SF.
I'm late to the party, but I'll provide my two cents as someone who worked at Google and interviewed candidates (most engineers there are trained to do interviews):
1. Your resume looks good and should get the recruiters attention, and
2) that's about all your resume is good for, in my experience. Interviewers will look at what you've done in the past to help decide what questions to ask, but your answers to those questions are far more important than your past experience.
As others have said, review your basic algorithms and data structures. Be prepared to write correct code on the white board (not pseudo-code, at least not as your final product).
Finally, if things don't work out at Google - why not submit your resume to OpenX (http://openx.org/jobs or email me joel at openx dot org)? We're also hiring :)
Were you using Chrome? In FF and Safari4 the stylesheets load regardless of whether or not there's a subdomain, but in Chrome I see the behavior you describe.
Strip I, me etc. Time is of essence (resumes are not read but skimmed).
How about adding some things from business perspective? I mean when you talk about what you've done, it's good to know that you gained experience. But it would be even better if you could show where your efforts led. Like "redesigned shopping cart process, which reduced the number of support calls by XX %"
Watch out for ambiguous text: "the clean UI and weather graphs really made Harvest’s product stand out." It's better to be able to say something solid like "new design led to XX % better user retention" or "new UI was awarded by XX".
I'd also advice against placing your education with the rest of "about me". Some might skip the whole chapter. This will not happen if education has a heading of its own.
I would also place "experience" just after the summary. Best stuff first.
It doesn't really sound like this is what you're looking for, but Google has a really nice branch in Sydney. Sadly, immigration issues kept me from joining them, but I think (?) that a New Zealander wouldn't have that problem.
49 comments
[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 101 ms ] threadOf course, that was then and this is now. Some other HNers probably have better advice:)
My one suggestion is that your sales presentation says an awful lot about you and not that much about Google. That goes against pretty much everything I know about sales. ("But its a resume! It should be about me!" No, that is a meaningless tradition perpetuated by people who are much less savvy than you are.)
If I wanted to get a job at Google, I would make it obvious that I understand Google's business about as well as I understand Ruby, or better. Talk about how your experience with MicroPledge prepares you to deal with web-scale computing. (Even if it doesn't, demonstrate that you understand the differences.) Talk about how your e-commerce experience at Gifty gets you inside the head of Google's customers, and how you understand Internet advertising on a deep level because it determined whether you ate or not. (The truth that I advise you to keep at the foremost of your mind and not say out loud: Google is an advertising company.)
I know when I've written with paper resumes, I've always rewritten the resume to suit the job application (in addition to writing an extremely specific cover letter.)
I don't know how that works when it's a personal web page. If the OP really only wants that web page to read by (and accepted by) Google, I guess they can do the same thing. :).
If I hypothetically wanted to get a job at Google, I would have two versions of example.com/resume -- one for general consumption, and one which told the user that I've determined their IP is in the Googleplex and have customized the content to fit their needs. I'd probably also put a discussion of cloaking, Google's user experience guidelines, and why this is solidly within them as an aside in a lightbox or maybe a link to another page.
For similar reasons, I'd mention to the user that they are participating in an A/B test of my resume. (Honestly, it doesn't matter what the results of the test are: this is purely theatre to demonstrate to the user that I'm the kind of guy who would A/B test his resume. It also tells you that I'm the kind of guy who thinks his resume is a engineering/marketing challenge rather than a desktop publishing task.)
There's actually a secondary problem that this exposes, though: is it actually possible to submit a resume to Google as a URL?
I submitted a "cold" Google job application a couple of years ago, and back then there was a short list of supported resume formats, with a strong hint towards using plain text.
The speculation was that most resumes get computationally screened before a human even reads them. (I didn't get a call back, btw.)
If that's the "front door", you'll need to somehow get in the "back door". I suppose having your resume on the front page of HN could be a good start to that. ;)
This is the single most important piece of jobseeking advice I can give anyone. Joel Spolsky had an article some years ago on how the best candidates are never on the public job market, because they get snapped up on the private offers. He wrote from the perspective of "As a business owner, it sure sucks looking in the slush pile of resumes, because none of the good people are in it.", but the applicant's side of the coin is similar: You're a good candidate, right? So don't go to the slush pile!
I suppose having your resume on the front page of HN could be a good start to that.
As fun as waiting by the phone and hoping to get a job offer is, I'd suggest you instead either talk to a Googler you know or get someone you know who owes you a favor to introduce you to a Googler. (Networking: not just for ethernet packets.) All you need to do is convince someone to convince someone to visit a URL, preferably with an endorsement. ("Hey Bob, got a second? My buddy $NAME is dying to get into Google. Know anybody who could use a brilliant engineer who did good work for me? $URL")
The following feedback probably isn't google-specific, and it's really just nitpicking, but I would say:
- "move to the U.S. for about two years in mid-2010". AFAIK, most employers (maybe not Google) would probably rather just hear "move to the US in mid-2010".
- "Skills: I can... develop web applications". This section can be rephrased as "Skills: I have... developed web applications", etc. This is a job application tip I've had drummed into me, to always stress what you have done rather than what you can do.
- It might sound better to slap a better title than "long-time friend" on your third reference. Maybe you two collaborated on a project at some point?
- Hehe @ the Fermat reference. Nice touch.
Just my myopic 2c, and like I said it's really mostly nitpicking. :).
and definitely practice solving problems on the whiteboard. its completely different. if its within the realm of comfort also get used to thinking out loud in the interview. some people really can't do this but i've found, both as an interviewer and interviewee, its really helpful.
your resume will basically get you a phone screen, beyond that i suspect its irrelevant.
(for the record, i've interviewed with the GOOG and was offered a job)
Things are pretty similar where I work. We will look at most people if their resume lists the relevant technologies, but the phone screen and in-person interviews are very tough. There are so many liars out there that resumes aren't a very good filter. Even academic pedigree doesn't seem to count much in the software development world, though it counts more if you're doing more research-y/academic things like machine learning.
Update: Being pragmatic, I should probably use "resume", because that's how Google Jobs spells it.
Yeah, it's the web, it's probably safest to stick to ascii ;P
In general, very nice. I used to be a recruiter, and I wish I'd gotten more résumés like this. (Keep in mind that the average recruiter, perhaps even at Google, will prefer a résumé that lists jobs, education maybe skills, and nothing else. The filters in recruiting are designed to suppress originality, since there are far more original ways to make the wrong decision than to make the right one.)
Agreed, but...
That rule would imply cutting the link to Chesterton (if they get the reference, they'll appreciate it) and possibly the Hofstader's Law reference, too.
I wonder why do you assume people who know Chesterton would appreciate the reference. Just saying that you like Chesterton might suggest religious and philosophical beliefs that aren't necessarily appreciated by your average young liberal geek. I'm not saying people will dismiss OP right away just because of this, but unconscious discrimination does happen.
On the other hand, Hofstadter is both well known and generally liked among geeks.
In the USA it is illegal to ask about country of origin (as well as age, gender, religious beliefs, marital status).
I've heard of hiring managers discarding CVs outright if they contain information that is illegal to ask about, though I have no idea what the practices at Google are.
Recommended reading: "Land the Tech Job You Love" by Andy Lester, published by The Pragmatic Bookshelf.
Saying you're eligible to work somewhere is different than disclosing your nationality. One is a material part of the hiring process; the other is something people discriminate on.
Stick to the things that actually affect job performance. It keeps the process fair for everyone.
"Authorized to work in the United States." Yes, I am a lawyer, and I used to practice immigration law.
But it REALLY helps if you have a friend who is already in there refer you. If you have none atm, either network or use http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/03/get-that-job-at-goog...
Having a referral pretty much lets you skip the majority of the line at most companies. It also lets you get by even if your resume is not particularly stellar but your skills are. Google, in particular, makes an effort to do onsite interviews with most referrals (unless you disqualify yourself via a variety of different ways).
Having a friend there also means you get a lot of help along the way, advice about what to study for, hints, etc. So all around, its a good idea.
1. Your resume looks good and should get the recruiters attention, and
2) that's about all your resume is good for, in my experience. Interviewers will look at what you've done in the past to help decide what questions to ask, but your answers to those questions are far more important than your past experience.
As others have said, review your basic algorithms and data structures. Be prepared to write correct code on the white board (not pseudo-code, at least not as your final product).
Finally, if things don't work out at Google - why not submit your resume to OpenX (http://openx.org/jobs or email me joel at openx dot org)? We're also hiring :)
How about adding some things from business perspective? I mean when you talk about what you've done, it's good to know that you gained experience. But it would be even better if you could show where your efforts led. Like "redesigned shopping cart process, which reduced the number of support calls by XX %"
Watch out for ambiguous text: "the clean UI and weather graphs really made Harvest’s product stand out." It's better to be able to say something solid like "new design led to XX % better user retention" or "new UI was awarded by XX".
I'd also advice against placing your education with the rest of "about me". Some might skip the whole chapter. This will not happen if education has a heading of its own.
I would also place "experience" just after the summary. Best stuff first.