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Ask HN: Startup not paying wages yet

25 points by collyw ↗ HN
I started a bit over one and a half months ago at a startup in Barcelona. The founder went off to get married, then was bought an unexpected honeymoon, so payment didn't happen at the start of the month as it was supposed to. Now we have been promised for the past two Fridays it would come, (he showed us a chain of emails explaining why the customer payment didn't go through yet). Now its Monday and no sign of payment yet. (He has been back from his honeymoon for a while now).

Has anyone been in a similar situation? How to handle it?

20 comments

[ 1.9 ms ] story [ 43.6 ms ] thread
LoneWolf
While I do not know the law specifics of Spain, here in Portugal after 2 months of non payment you can demand the "cancellation" (not sure if it is the right word) of the contract, and leave the job, there may be more specifics into it and my advice would be to see what are your legal options.

I have been in a similar situation and my plan was always to wait for the 2 months and started searching for a new job, but they ended up paying everything at most with 2 weeks delay.

If you just started and there are delays like that, you dont trust the founder, etc, then leave it is better for you, I don't imagine myself being a startup founder and just leaving my workers in the dark just because I want to get married, I would find some time to make the proper arrangements for the wages, explain everything well and then get married.

mrits
The thought that an employee doesn't have the right to leave or employer doesn't have the right to fire any time just blows my mind.
LoneWolf
What blows my mind is exactly the opposite, that for no reason I can be fired without any kind of warning or time to search for a new job, in portugal the employer can fire or I can leave, there is a 1month/2month warning depending on the case how long you have been on the company (up to 2 years/2 years or more respectively)
Mimu
Being a child at heart, I would probably stop working until payment, then leave once received.
tluyben2
The founder(singular?) started a company and then immediately got married? Both seem to be things you plan and you should not plan them remotely close together.

Are you an employee or freelancer and do you have shares? If you are an employee he has to pay immediately and I would enforce that now; as a freelancer I would discuss it with him and probably stop working depending on what he says.

collyw
No the company is 3 years old. He just happened to get married the week after I started.
bryanrasmussen
ok well I guess a company can still be a startup after 3 years, but I mean by then it should have its wages and payments under control. you should quit.
EliRivers
Hold on, let me just check the smoke alarm... no, wait, the siren is going off inside my head.

If the company has the money to pay you, then this kind of incompetency is a massive warning signal. If the founder had his act together, he'd be telling you very day why you hadn't been paid and he'd be checking who needs immediate cash to cover something urgent. Chain of eMails explaining payment problems? Blah blah blah PAY ME WHAT YOU OWE ME. He knew payday was coming.

If the company doesn't have the money to pay you, then this kind of incompetency is a massive warning signal. If the founder had his act together, he'd have told everyone as early as possible the situation, and people who wanted to take the risk of going unpaid for a while would at least know what they're getting into.

There is no way to spin this that the founder isn't either dangerously incompetent or is just using you like a sucker.

Next job, please.

jane_is_here
Sounds like sheer incompetence. Dust off your CV and start applying elsewhere.

When startups fail, the commonest cause is fcked founders. And your founder sounds fcked in spades.

ben007
escape from the situation ASAP
zhte415
I've been paid late before, by a day or two. It makes everyone feel a lack of competence.

I've also been paid early, again a day or two (mainly when payday comes on a weekend or public holiday). It makes everyone feel a sense of trust and value.

If the former, it seems like a basic lack of respect and empathy. I go foot over back to make sure my staff feel comfortable. This doesn't mean having food or massages as perks, it does mean at the least paying on time and replying (answers, not excuses) to concerns quickly.

icedchai
How to handle it? Stop doing work for them and start looking for another job.
davismwfl
What is your pay cycle supposed to be? once a month, once a week or every two weeks?

No matter what you are owed money and they should be paying. Honestly you shouldn't have been hired if they didn't have the funds to support your salary/contract. I have sadly been in the shoes of being a founder and having to pay people a few days late and I scrambled and felt horrible that it happened. I also wound up making some tough decisions and cut head count to make sure it wouldn't happen again. Problem being clients don't always pay on time, or pay at all, so you have to be able to support the head count for at least some period of time to cover those times.

The founder may have good intentions, but honestly after 3 years, like others have said, these issues shouldn't happen so something else is up and you need to look for other work likely. Not sure what the rules are in Spain but in the US being late on a payroll if it hasn't yet reached the next pay period won't get you in much trouble (if any), but it is still bad business and a sign to you. And an employee could easily report you to wage and labor. I am not saying I'd cut and run for someone being a little late, but if I had other feelings things weren't right I'd bolt.

Also, the fact you say "we have been promised" makes me thing there are multiple employees in this situation and likely means you are all out of luck and need to find new work.

collyw
Yes there are a few of us. Got an interview lined up tomorrow morning. I was close to cancelling it a couple of weeks ago when they changed the time at the last minute.
brudgers
That sucks.

What it shows is that when you were hired, there were no funds to pay you. The fact that on payday the founder ways honeymooning doesn't change that. It just indicates that the founder didn't want to deal with not paying.

Reading further down, I saw that the company has been around for three years. At this point, inability to manage cash flow via sales, investment, and/or loans is clearly a red flag. Not following through on payment two weeks running and blaming customers seems symptomatic of leadership that is not inclined to make hard business decisions.

In the end, if there's no payment, it's not employment.

Good luck.

gesman
Q: "How to handle it?"

A: Make deliverables contingent upon timely payment. Start looking around for better alternatives to spend time wisely.

apryldelancey
As everyone else said, this is a major red flag. You need to look for something else immediately. This person will use you as long as he can.
Zelmor
Look up your country's relevant work laws. Then leave as law permits. Threaten with lawsuit due to non-payment on your way out.

Seeing how you are in Europe, you are most probably on probation for what, 2-3 months? I bet you are free to leave anyday until the probation period is up.

Know your rights.