Last time I flew domestically in NZ (Wellington to Blenheim, 6 or 7 years ago), there weren't any security checkpoints at all for the domestic terminal. The only checkpoint was at the gate, when the flight staff checked that I had a boarding pass.
As a dirty foreigner, I already need my passport to travel domestically within the US.
I think it makes sense. Passpprts are a lot more secure than US identity cards. It's kinda silly how little security measures you guys have on your IDs.
Or have I only been seeing old ones? Do new ones have any of that shiny stuff?
All states issue id cards for people who don't want, qualify, or can't have a driver's license. Most ID cards look/feel the same as a driver's license and are typically issued by the department of motor vehicles or similar licensing agency, but state specifically that they are for identification purposes only.
Every state I've lived in has had photo IDs available for those without drivers licenses. They're still generally issued through the state's department of motor vehicles.
In most states, you can get a state ID that's not valid for driving, but is useful for corroborating your identity and age (and presumably residence, for those states that comply with this new Real ID stuff).
Depends drastically on the state - most people use their driver's license as their primary ID, and each state issues their own licenses with varying security standards depending on that state's needs.
Most states have phased out paper licenses in favor of newer plastic cards with more modern security features, but, the old licenses still remain valid for a while which leads to multiple variants out in the wild until everyone has been in for a renewal. Some states - like New York cited in the article - have good security features on the new licenses themselves, but the identity verification requirements to obtain the license were too weak for the federal standard.
$165 for a passport plus card is a pretty steep price just to fly domestically, not to mention additional fees if you need to travel on short notice. In CA a State identity card is $28, or $8 if you are poor, or $0 if elderly.
Is it steep? Passports are valid for 10 years. That's $16 per year. The price of 4 starbuckses is nothing compared to, say, one flight per year for the holidays.
Forbes is exaggerating to say that passports will be required. There are alternate forms of ID (such as a military ID) and even those who do not have government-issued ID can verify their identity in other ways. The TSA webpage on identification [1] lists acceptable alternatives, and says that without "proper" ID, "TSA officers will request you present two other forms of ID bearing your name. One of the items must bear your name and other identifying information such as photo, address, phone number, social security number or date of birth."
The lede: residents of Louisiana, Minnesota, and New Hampshire (and New York next year) are not able to use their drivers licenses for various purposes, including domestic air travel, due to the failure of these states to require proof of residency for their issue.
The article stretches this idea over several paragraphs of fear-mongering; fretting over the possible Orwellian abuses a tyrannical Internal Revenue Service could impose on mild-mannered tax delinquents.
Thank you for digging up the lede. If only this were part of the article rather than in a Hacker News comment section. I can only imagine the number of people that will be mislead.
I can't imagine this actually happening. REAL ID has been extremely unpopular from the start and the deadline has been repeatedly pushed back since most states are unwilling to comply. Expect another last-minute delay if there's still a state without a waiver.
The original proposal of a pan-North-American shared database and other genuinely suboptimal ideas were scrapped in the revision a decade ago. You're probably thinking of this original iteration when you describe its unpopularity.
According to http://www.dhs.gov/real-id-enforcement-brief most states are noncompliant and have received extensions to their deadlines to comply, including 7 of the 10 largest.
> The lede: residents of Louisiana, Minnesota, and New Hampshire (and New York next year) are not able to use their drivers licenses for various purposes, including domestic air travel, due to the failure of these states to require proof of residency for their issue.
Which is false. They are able to use them for all purposes now (except for Minnesota, non-enhanced driver's licenses), because while the Phases of real ID prior to domestic air transport are in effect, all of those states -- and many others that are not fully compliant with Real ID -- have extensions [either granted after review, or shorter extensions while an application is reviewed] into 2016 to allow their licenses to be used for all purposes.) Minnesota (which also offers Enhanced Driver's Licenses which can be used for all RealID purpose and as border-crossing documents) and American Samoa [0] are the only jurisdictions that are out of compliance with Real ID for normal ID, and which therefore can't be used for RealID covered purposes which are in effect (domestic air transport isn't in effect yet, so IDs from those jurisdictions can still be used for that purpose.)
If DHS schedules Phase 4 -- which it has said it will not do with less than 120 days notice, and no earlier than 2016, and only after review of current readiness -- then licenses from jurisdictions (mostly states) that are not compliant and are not covered by a granted extension could not be used for domestic air transport, just as they can't be used for other RealID covered purposes (mostly access for federal facilities, with an exception for access for the purpose of applying for benefits) now. But it seems unlikely that they will schedule Phase 4 until all jurisdictions are ready, anyway.
An ID is not required for any US domestic travel, never has been, never will be. Providing ID makes your travel through TSA check points go smoother, but it's absolutely, unquestionably not a requirement. I've traveled numerous times without ID and have never had any significant issues or delays and don't expect any in the future either. There are obviously those who insist it is a requirement or will soon be a requirement, but that's very silly. Imagine traveling from Oregon to Maine, loosing your wallet, having no ID and then being effectively stuck in Maine until you can prove to the local DMV you are who you say you are so they can issue you an ID. Absolutely ridiculous.
Yes, the TSA obviously wants everyone to think they need ID because having thousands more people going through checkpoints everyday without proper ID will tax the system. However, the Real ID legislation requires all agencies who require Real ID to have other mechanisms in place to deal with individuals who don't have identification, for obvious reasons.
I almost had to do this because of a problem with my newly-renewed license. I was told (by the TSA) to arrive several hours early with as much documentation as I could expecting to fill out a lot of paperwork and be interviewed. In the end I got my license situation resolved in time, but it sounded like a huge deal and I'm curious about more details of your experience has been having actually done it..
Yep. The airline will almost certainly want you to have the credit card used to purchase the ticket to verify that you're "authorized" to claim the ticket, and the TSA will give you the third degree at the checkpoint, but -because the airlines are common carriers- you cannot be required to present ID to fly.
Nothing. I walk up, identify myself, explain I've misplaced my wallet and have no ID, credit-cards, etc. They then call for an enhanced screening and a nice TSA agent walks with me through the line to place my stuff on the conveyer. We then go past the scanner and I get a pat down and rubbed with their little white paper which goes into a device to sniff for explosives. Sometimes I'm asked questions about my travel, SSN, that sort of thing. Honestly, I've never had a problem.
EDIT: Oh, I never have checked bags. I think that helps make it smoother.
+1. I once lost my ID and showed up at the airport with a photocopy of my passport; they just asked for whatever else I had on hand (credit card, company badge) and patted me down.
Nope. If you don't have your wallet, you don't have your wallet. Further, you only commit perjury (in the US) if you are under oath. Also, no law has been broken which is being investigated. Not having ID is not a crime. Being vague about why you don't have ID is not a crime.
Not a lawyer, but I believe lying to a federal official is only a criminal offense when it is done to cover up a crime. I still don't advise lying to a TSA agent and would suggest that anyone traveling without an ID actually be traveling without an ID. Obviously there are some risks of delay in doing this so I'm sure it's something which will never be common.
The security screeners are not officers. Abso-fucking-lutely not. Their powers of detention and search are strictly limited to only those actions required to ensure the safety of aircraft from the things that would be loaded onto said aircraft. [0]
If a TSA agent needs to do anything beyond their remit, they must get a law enforcement officer to do it.
[0] The TSA's kangaroo court has been gradually expanding what the TSA feels it is legally permitted to do as time goes on, but -happily- Federal judges have started to take a really dim view on the TSA's (incredibly long-standing) procedural end run around judicial review.
Yikes! That's likely a good way to get into some trouble. Having an ID but not providing it. ;-) I'm a security researcher so it's sort of in my DNA to cause trouble. If you are going to do this, you need to be fully committed and not have an ID. Also don't lie and go with "I misplaced my ID." To date no one has ever asked if I intentionally misplaced my ID.
It is however required for Amtrak trains. The situation you describe above happened in Hawaii and while the person involved was able to board a plane back to BWI with a police report stating her ID was stolen, Amtrak would not let her on from BWI to DC.
Interesting. I'd love to read about how that happened. With eTickets I've never needed to produce ID, of course I do go out of my way to avoid conductor checks, although, on the route from BWI to DC I'm not sure what the conductor would or could do if you didn't have ID. It's not like they are going to stop the train and kick you off.
This is totally fucking illegal. As Americans we have the right to travel our own country without someone asking for our papers. The article doesn't even acknowledge this basic constitutional right.
The article is just sensationalism. All it really says is that the TSA may ask for a different form of ID if your state isn't adhering to standards that they have no constitutional requirement to meet. But instead of being honest about that, it dishonestly leads you to believe that you will need to use a Passport as the alternative way of identifying yourself.
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[ 4.7 ms ] story [ 134 ms ] threadI think it makes sense. Passpprts are a lot more secure than US identity cards. It's kinda silly how little security measures you guys have on your IDs.
Or have I only been seeing old ones? Do new ones have any of that shiny stuff?
For example in Maryland: http://www.mva.maryland.gov/drivers/apply/id-card.htm
Here's CA for example: https://dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/dmv_cont...
US federal govt issues a plenty of different ID cards.
There's also a bunch of tribal ones that are accepted.
Most states have phased out paper licenses in favor of newer plastic cards with more modern security features, but, the old licenses still remain valid for a while which leads to multiple variants out in the wild until everyone has been in for a renewal. Some states - like New York cited in the article - have good security features on the new licenses themselves, but the identity verification requirements to obtain the license were too weak for the federal standard.
[1] https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification
The article stretches this idea over several paragraphs of fear-mongering; fretting over the possible Orwellian abuses a tyrannical Internal Revenue Service could impose on mild-mannered tax delinquents.
I'm impressed with how good the top subthreads here turned out to be, with such bad seed material.
The original proposal of a pan-North-American shared database and other genuinely suboptimal ideas were scrapped in the revision a decade ago. You're probably thinking of this original iteration when you describe its unpopularity.
Which is false. They are able to use them for all purposes now (except for Minnesota, non-enhanced driver's licenses), because while the Phases of real ID prior to domestic air transport are in effect, all of those states -- and many others that are not fully compliant with Real ID -- have extensions [either granted after review, or shorter extensions while an application is reviewed] into 2016 to allow their licenses to be used for all purposes.) Minnesota (which also offers Enhanced Driver's Licenses which can be used for all RealID purpose and as border-crossing documents) and American Samoa [0] are the only jurisdictions that are out of compliance with Real ID for normal ID, and which therefore can't be used for RealID covered purposes which are in effect (domestic air transport isn't in effect yet, so IDs from those jurisdictions can still be used for that purpose.)
If DHS schedules Phase 4 -- which it has said it will not do with less than 120 days notice, and no earlier than 2016, and only after review of current readiness -- then licenses from jurisdictions (mostly states) that are not compliant and are not covered by a granted extension could not be used for domestic air transport, just as they can't be used for other RealID covered purposes (mostly access for federal facilities, with an exception for access for the purpose of applying for benefits) now. But it seems unlikely that they will schedule Phase 4 until all jurisdictions are ready, anyway.
[0] http://www.dhs.gov/real-id-enforcement-brief
Yes, the TSA obviously wants everyone to think they need ID because having thousands more people going through checkpoints everyday without proper ID will tax the system. However, the Real ID legislation requires all agencies who require Real ID to have other mechanisms in place to deal with individuals who don't have identification, for obvious reasons.
https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification
"In the event you arrive at the airport without proper ID, because it is lost or at home, you may still be allowed to fly."
Every time I've done it, they ask me a few questions and I get a pat-down which is no big deal anyway since I never go through their scanner anyway.
EDIT: Oh, I never have checked bags. I think that helps make it smoother.
So you commit perjury, correct?
Quite true. But did you know it is a felony to make false statements? Martha Stewart probably didn't know that before, but she does now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements
Lying to a federal official is some other criminal offence and is a pretty bad idea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements
If a TSA agent needs to do anything beyond their remit, they must get a law enforcement officer to do it.
[0] The TSA's kangaroo court has been gradually expanding what the TSA feels it is legally permitted to do as time goes on, but -happily- Federal judges have started to take a really dim view on the TSA's (incredibly long-standing) procedural end run around judicial review.