255 comments

[ 5.0 ms ] story [ 98.9 ms ] thread
I still don't get standing desk, how can you can concentrate deeply while standing? I guess not for everyone.
Sitting in a chair for 8hrs a day at work, sometimes I have difficulty concentrating because my shoulders/neck hurt. I have a stand-up desk at home and I love it.
I use one, never had any issues with it. My wife says the same thing, she can NOT stand and concentrate.
You ever pace around the room while thinking about a problem? That's not the same as just standing in place, but put a treadmill under one of these and you've got a great way to get your mind working. There's something about moving your body that unblocks the brain.
Light physical activity does facilitate good thinking for some reason.
If you get a drafting stool you can sit at your standing height desk for whatever you need to do while sitting but it's still much more natural to transition between sitting and standing/pacing which can encourage not sitting all day/hashing things out on a white board/grabbing a book off the shelf (plus you can remain seated and still be mostly eye level with people that drop by for a chat).
This is what I use: http://amzn.to/1MSrSNa

For me, using a stool makes the switch back and forth between sitting and standing much more seamless. And it's the shifting weight and switching positions that gives you most of the benefit anyway.

I find it hard to really concentrate on a problem when just sitting in a chair. I'll often get up and walk around the room or pace up and down the corridor. Standing at my desk alleviates some of that need for me, while still letting me be in front of a computer. That being said I rarely stand for a full day, preferring to alternate between standing and sitting during the day.
Agreed - I've found myself standing more and more over the last couple years, though. I think I'm up to six hours or so out of an eight-hour day, either in socks on an anti-fatigue mat or wearing my basketball shoes. I feel so much better, and I find I can "lock in" on a problem more effectively.
For me it really comes down to the type of concentration I need. For times when I know both what needs to be done and how I want to do it and I just have to put hands to keyboard and focus on getting it done, then I prefer to sit. For times when I trying to get a grip on a problem or wrap my mind around how to solve something then standing works much better.
That is why adjustable is key. Reading some emails or in a meeting? Good time to stand. Need to deep dive in some crazy code - sit.
I find it a lot easier, these days, than sitting. I can move around, I can pace a little. One of my clients only has sit-down desks and, in addition to being really stiff in the knees afterwards, I always feel cramped and a little restricted. I notice it, and it distracts me from what I'm working on.

My standing desk is also just high enough to fit my exercise bike under it (if I take off the handlebars), and that is really nice.

I guess I don't see the connection between standing, sitting, and concentration?

I definitely think typing and using a mouse while standing takes some getting used to (in particular if you rest your arm on an armrest while seated); but concentration itself, to me at least, is not correlated.

I will say I think simply standing as a health benefit exists but is overblown. If you really want health benefits you have to move, so now we're talking about: treadmill desks or exercises.

For many people (myself included), standing up feels like working, sitting feels like being lazy.
Working standing up has similar effects as 'pacing around', when needing to think about something intently, gripped by thought enough that you're compelled to move around a little... I can't imagine being deep in thought and just sitting still.

That said, I don't use a standing desk, I just occasionally stand up and work from a counter when I feel compelled.

> Working standing up has similar effects as 'pacing around', when needing to think about something intently, gripped by thought enough that you're compelled to move around a little... I can't imagine being deep in thought and just sitting still.

It's really hard. I have had to get used to it, though, because I have yet to work in a place with enough space where I can do that.

Depends on the person. I sometimes stand and eat, even walk around and eat if my plate is not heavy. And have heard a earful for it ("it is not healthy" yada yada).
One thing the article doesn't mention is that for some reason it was a huge PITA to assemble. I've used Ikea a lot but this was one of the more difficult.

Overall though, I highly recommend

Have the table, now for 4 months and for me it was a piece of cake to assemble it - also compared to other IKEA furniture.

I like this table. Use it 95 % in standing mode, one reason is that it is not as easy to put it down as the electric version - so the laziness makes me to use it most of the time in standing mode :-)

I have the motorized version of this desk and agree that it's not built for tall people. I'm about 5'11" and have to use it at its maximum height to be comfortable.

Otherwise love it.

That's funny - 5'11 is just about average height for Scandinavian males, so IKEA being Swedish this is a bit surprising.
It also depends on the proportions of your arms, I'm 5'10" and my desk is at 41" - maybe Scandinavian males have short shoulder-to-elbow lenghts? :)
Haha, anything's possible. When I bought my road bike, the guy at the shop fitting me said, "you have the torso of a much taller man." What else to say but, "thanks!"
If you're talking about the Bekant, I have that too and am comfortable using it. I am 6'2".

I keep the desk surface such that my elbows are about 90 degrees while resting on it. I have a monitor arm that puts the center of my screens about 18" above the desk surface.

If you're trying to use a laptop sitting flat on the desk while standing, that is going to be uncomfortable at any height because your eyes and hands/arms need to be further apart.

That's interesting. I do use my laptop flat on the desk and find it very comfortable! Maybe I have long arms?
How low can the desk go?
26 inches (+1 inch for the thickness of the desk surface).
I bought one of these desks as well. I also use it at just about 41 inches when standing.

I think the desk sways a bit more than the article says. That said, I would imagine using a sturdier monitor stand (or an arm clamped to the desk) would counteract that enough to make it more comfortable.

For less than ~$250, I couldn't find a comparable sit/stand desk.

Unfortunately we might have hugged the site to death. Am now seeing:

> Uncaught Exception: SQLSTATE[HY000] [2003] Can't connect to MySQL server on '127.0.0.1' (111)

Sorry about that - brand new DigitalOcean instance and Anchor CMS installation. I guess I have some optimizing to do. Won't even accept new SSH connections.
Perhaps it is hitting the memory ceiling?

When a machine runs out of memory, sometimes new SSH connections can fail because when it tries to fork the processes needed to handle the session, that forking can fail.

You may want to look at how much memory MySQL in particular is allowed to consume on the box. It is actually very configurable in that regard, but pretty greedy out of the box.

Thanks for trying to bring the site back up (and for writing the review, which I'll read when I am able). :)

Back up for the moment, resized the instance from 512 MB of RAM to 8 GB. Time for a crash course in MySQL memory optimization.
Don't bother, just stick a cache in front!
If it's just a static blog why even run a full on database engine, etc? A static site generator + CDN would handle huge amounts of loads without breaking a sweat.
Only because it's my first blog and I'm new at high-traffic web stuff. I picked what appears to be a very lightweight and easy-to-tweak blogging engine (Anchor). Which stack do you recommend?
Any static generator (e.g. Jekyll) + any HTTP object store (e.g. Amazon S3) + any CDN (e.g. Cloudflare)
Why bother with optimizing if scaling vertically is possible? /s
I didn't think a review for a piece of IKEA furniture would ever make it to the top of HN :)
Think of it as a dev tools thread. Those are perennial.
It's been up 13 minutes and the DB is already toasted
In case anyone's in the market: While $100-200 more (depending on retailer), I've been using the Victor High Rise Collection Dual Monitor Sit-Stand Desk Converter for the past 8 months and am very pleased.
I'm also too tall for it. It also seemed to be more wobbly at the fully extended height.

OTOH it might work for you if you use it with a high stool (like a drafting stool). I had a co-worker that would go back and forth from a regular chair to the high stool and they said it helped their back. YMMV.

Any idea what the maximum height of a person would be to use this?
For the Ikea Bekant desk, I'm 6'2" and usually have it near its maximum height. I like things a bit higher (relative to my own height) than most, but I still wouldn't expect it to work for someone over say 6'5".

All these adjustable desks start to have perceptible sway when mostly extended. If this really bothers you, consider mounting your monitors separately.

I'm 6'5" and have my UpDesk set to 49" which is just a hair taller than the BEKANT can handle. If I had my iMac mounted and able to be adjusted to eye-level, I could probably work at 47.5" table height but I go a little higher so I'm not looking downward as much.
The Bekant's EU version goes 3cm higher than the US version. I'm 6'1" and it's nowhere near maximum. A colleague of mine is 6'4" and doesn't max it out either. Height is between 65 and 125cm for the EU version, versus 56 to 122cm for the US version.
Interesting, I thought Ikea products were the same worldwide. I guess the American version is made to standard/typical American office furniture dimensions.

http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/S49061191/

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S49022524/

http://www.ikea.com/se/sv/catalog/products/S69022537/

http://www.ikea.com/dk/da/catalog/products/S69022523/

The Swedish and Danish versions have the same product code, but the British one is different, yet I don't see any difference in the description. Maybe it's just the different plug.

Americans also benefit from a warning not to be crushed by their furniture.

Conclusion:

"Overall, the SKARSTA meets expectations. I would recommend it if you want an adjustable-height desk and only want to spend $230. I would not recommend it if you're very tall and want to use this desk near its maximum 47-inch height, or if you need an absolutely rock-solid desk that doesn't sway at all. If your desired surface height is around 41 inches (or lower), you'll probably be happy. Eventually I'll post a long-term review, but if you are reading this, I've had no issues using this desk daily since January 2016."

I've used an Alvin minimaster drafting table ($129) for the past 4 years: http://www.amazon.com/Alvin-MiniMaster-Adjustable-Drafting-T... I like it so much that I bought a second one for more desk space.

Along with a drafting chair ($150): http://www.amazon.com/LexMod-Office-Drafting-Chair-Leatheret...

I'd be interested in a picture of your setup. How do you have the monitor and keyboard so they don't just slide off of it? Doesn't it feel like you're using your mouse on a hill-side?
You can lay it flat, of course :) Here you go: https://www.instagram.com/p/86XA-dRG1J/?taken-by=markunfilte... Sorry, no pic of the chair.
Oh I see. So it is completely flat in your usage, but you can just change the height up and down. Nice!

Thanks for the picture :)

(comment deleted)
Angle is adjustable, a slight one is no problem.
Interesting. How easy is it to switch between sitting and standing? Does it make sense with a heavy 4K monitor on it?
You adjust the chair so the seat is just slightly lower than your butt then to switch to standing you slide forward off the stool. To switch back you do a little half hop onto your butt.
I think they were asking about adjusting the table's height.
You don't.

That's the point: the table never moves. You buy a table thats tall enough for comfortable standing use then buy a chair tall enough to that you never adjust the table. What's great about this is that there is no conscious effort needed to switch between sitting and standing you don't have to set a timer to remind you to stand up, crank your desk into standing position, nothing. You just flow on and off your chair.

Adjustable standing desk is more than a desk -- it's a multi-use work surface. I can push my monitors out of the way and move it all the way up to have the right height for taking computers apart. I can then move it to writing height and fill out paperwork like it's 1995 and then adjust it again for typing height and pull my monitors back into place.

If I could, every surface I owned would be adjustable height.

The whole point is that you're NOT constantly adjusting the desk, but using a taller chair when you sit.
Oh, then what's the point of comparing it with the Sit/Stand desk in the submission?
I believe the idea is that it is you essentially get the best of both worlds with this setup because 1) switching between sitting and standing is more fluid, as you need only to sit down or get out of your chair to switch (rather than needing to change desk height) 2) it is in general cheaper and longer-lasting because there are not motors, etc. involved.
If all you are trying to accomplish is to move from sitting/standing while working at a computer, they solve the same problem in a way that has been solved for at least a hundred years and is generally cheaper.

There are some merits to adjustable desks above and beyond that though.

What are they?
My motorized adjustable desk and highly adjustable Capisco chair work for both me (6'2") and my wife (5'3") at standard-office-chair height, tall saddle-stool height, or standing. It can easily be slightly tweaked for typing or writing with a pen.

If we wanted to do the same thing with a fixed desk, we would need some kind of platform for her to stand on, plus at least two adjustable-height seats with adjustable foot rests.

Standing work on a computer is different than standing work for a soldering is different for drafting is different for drawing. A moving desk can support all those use cases but a adjustable chair and static desk can't.
I spend entirely more time than I should being semi-baffled at the way the internet has largely forgotten that you can just buy tall chairs and never have to worry about motors or adjustment speed or weight limits (to say nothing of cost).
I get your point but being able to place your feet on the floor anywhere in front of you is different than just putting your feet on a metal bar that's attached under your chair. I use a footstool because my desk is too high and even that I don't love. Having a desk at the correct height so you can put your feet flat on the ground is the best.
Totally. I'm pretty short, and it was many years before I realised that part of the reason I like sit cross-legged on office chairs is that my feet aren't comfortable because they're not flat on the ground.

My home desk is at a height which looks strangely low to visitors, but my knees and elbows are at nice right angles with my feet firmly planted on the floor.

I just had a genius revelation: I, like another poster here, don't like resting my feet on a bar all day. I like to have them planted firmly.

What if we had tall desks and tall office chairs with a flat, elevated platform? Then you could easily plant both feet on the platform and it would feel just like a regular chair, but then you could easily stand up and have a standing desk?

Something like this: http://www.lkgoodwin.com/more_info/brio_series_chairs/brio_s...

That's what I did with the "shelf" my Ikea Jerker.
Explain. What did you modify?
Imagine this desk, but with the two horizontal slabs swapped so that the big surface is at "standing height" while the other is where your feet would be when in a tall office-chair.

http://imgur.com/d94KObO

Oh, nice.
Yes! I miss the Jerker...

My first standing desk was similar: http://is.gd/X0JzNu

Our cubicles let you attach shelves or desk tops anywhere along the height of the cube wall. Oh man, I forgot I literally used tape to keep that together. And it wasn't even duct tape, yikes

I swear to god they used to make them with like these two plastic pads like 3"x6" that attached to those rings but I've haven't been able to find one like that for as long as I've been looking. I do admit the bars are crap though it's never been an issue because the when seated my feet are further under the desk than when standing and I've always had a boxes of shit under my desk. Or I just stood up or did the one cheek on one cheek off move.

ETA holy crap you found one</praise jesus hands> I feel like a jack ass now.

I bet you could 3D print those pads for "normal" tall chairs with the bars if you wanted to.
By "3D print" you of course mean going to a home improvement store and buying some wooden boards and metal attachment pieces. 3D printing is totally unsuitable for the task, both because of low durability of printed objects and the time it would take you to print a pad like this (a few days, probably).
Really, that's the time it takes to print an object that size with off-the-shelf 3D printers? I have no experience in this area, so my (uncalibrated) expectations for 3D printing were that it might take a couple hours.
Print speed depends a lot on the layer height (smaller height = more layers = more time) and infill amount.

We're primarily using a Printrbot Simple Metal at my local makerspace, and I usually expect a solid object the size of my fist, 20% infill, PLA, to run 3-4 hours.

Here's a ~6" tall hollow rabbit being printed in roughly 7 hours. 3D printers are still just useless and awful. The promise is clear if they ever improve but for now, especially the cheaper home variety, they just don't do anything useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx81wv0KRmY&feature=share

I would amend that to "commercial grade 3D printers are terrible and awful". There are some monsters out there that can pump out amazing stuff quickly, but they come with a hefty price tag. And some use lasers, so that's super cool.
> they just don't do anything useful.

We use a cheap 3D printer weekly to make little fixtures, brackets and mounts for robots. These we use for months or years. They are also incredibly great for prototyping: print the doohickey in crappy plastic, check it fits together right, then get it made for real. It's amazing how helpful it is to have a model in your hand for debugging before spending a fortune.

(comment deleted)
Consumer 3d printing is invaluable for small batch rapid prototyping. I can design and print multiple revisions of a prototype in as many hours. That type of efficiency was previously out of reach(expensive) for tiny, bootstrapped product design teams. It's a huge win.

It is definitely not ready for my Nana to print out a new frame for her eyeglasses after she accidentally sits on them. But it will be one day.

Once you start treating the output as something you can make a mold out of, it makes a lot more sense. Print something out, create a mold, then cast your real parts with that mold in short order.
Print times vary enormously for the same object depending on the settings the operator selects. I might be able to print you something in an hour at low detail, low strength settings, but the same object could easily take 30-50 hours if you crank those same settings to the max.
This is actually a pretty good application for home 3d printing.

I'd say that you'd be looking at 8-10 hours per print with a consumer FDM (extruded plastic) printer on the default settings.

If the printer is correctly configured it will probably be more durable than you're implying, and even if it only lasts a year you could always cheaply print more.

(comment deleted)
An apple box¹ under the desk would work just fine, and also allow you to put a foot up while standing.

¹That's what they're called in the trade, but they're much sturdier than an actual apple box.

(comment deleted)
I find the notion of a specialized, adjustable standing desk ridiculous. Why raise and lower the WHOLE DESK, when you could just fix the desk at a high point and raise and lower your chair? It seems so much more efficient and convenient.
Probably so but no one makes chairs that go high, except drafting chairs which are extremely uncomfortable and even more so unergonomic for computer use.
I built mine http://i.imgur.com/IpRAW3m.jpg :)

http://imgur.com/a/H7fxb reclaimed scaffolding and a 8x4 cut down to 7x3, offcuts used to make shelf.

Works really well.

I have the exact same Dr. Who poster and same color top on my desk; used to have custom built frame, but switched to an Uplift 900 just because I wanted it to be a bit more sturdy.
Sturdy isnt a problem with mine, moving it might be though, 48mm steel scafold tube and a 28mm structural birch ply top is stable but not light,last desk I'll ever need though :)
Placing my feet on the bars connected to a tall chair puts tension on my knees and hips due to the angle. Over time that causes joint pain.
I built my own standing desk for at home and simply bought a tall, barstool-height chair.
Sorry but I think I'm missing the point. Why would you want a standing desk if in the end you end up sitting anyway? Might as well just get a normal desk and plant your feet on the ground, no?
The idea is that you can switch. Many people need daily breaks from standing, or sometimes just feel like sitting for other reasons.
I have a motorized standing desk from Ikea.

It is an advantage to be able to adjust it instantly according to the task, be it sitting or standing: drawing, fixing something, or of course typing on a keyboard. Reading on the computer is not not the same height for me that writing email (standing or sitting).

Once you are used to these sometimes small adjustments, you really want to have them on all desks.

Instant adjusting also works well when you need to show something to a colleague at your desk. Raising the desk is faster and easier than finding a guest chair.
First time I've seen this model. I take the angle is variable ?

Also, more than the desk, a decent chair is of great importance.

Interesting setup. Is the table deep enough? Seems like when sitting, your knees could hit that shelf under the table.
(comment deleted)
Sit/stand desk. Still stares down at laptop flat on the desk. :( RIP your neck.
Giraffe[1] is starting to lease good quality, motorized standing desks in February for $1/day.

Disclamer: I know the founders and currently working on Slack integration for the desks :)

[1] http://standupgiraffe.com

Desks need Slack integration?
They definitely need beer buttons.
This may not be an issue for everyone, but I tend to stay the same position for too long so I need reminders to switch position. The desk electronics knows the current height and a Slack bot is a nice way to remind me. Being able to lift the desk through the bot is just a side effect of the reverse engineering process (and a pretty good gimmick).
If you told me 20 years ago I'll use a phone with a gigabyte of RAM..
In what markets? It doesn't say...
Here is the very cheap $25 disruptive version made from a cardboard box: http://oristand.co/
Clever, but it's not adjustable.
What do they do, ship you an Amazon box, a pair of scissors and a can of spray paint?
I bought a sit-stand frame from Ergotron[0] which I fitted my old desk surface onto which saved me quite a bit of money.

I don't like cranks or electronic motors. My criteria for a sit/stand desk was that it must be fast and practically effortless to switch between the two positions. For that you cannot beat a lift-system like the one in the Ergotron.

[0] http://www.ergotron.com/ProductsDetails/tabid/65/PRDID/757/l...

How is the lowering action? Does it go down smoothly? I have to admit this looks pretty promising, I might have to see if I can find one.
It's smooth. It locks into position at set intervals when you release the lever. Fortunately there is a good range of motion and the intervals are rather small (I'd estimate around 2-3cm each?).
> you cannot beat a lift-system like the one in the Ergotron

I think if you really want something fast you need a sitting desk AND a standing desk with mirrored monitors and each desk with its own keyboard and mouse.

How wide do they make them? I have three 27" monitors (for film and video work) and would like to add a fourth one.

edit: Apparently there's also BEKANT which is motorised.

I have a relatively expensive Uplift desk. I've had it for about 4 months now and have 0 complaints on the $1200-ish I spent. Here's my protips:

* Get one with a motor in it. Hand cranking sounds awful.

* Get one with presets. Having to hold a button and wait for a desk to go up and down sucks.

* Get one that goes up and down -- sitting or standing all the time sucks.

* Regarding the above items, you'll probably want to move it up and down every 45 minutes to 1.5 hours.

* Just because you can build one for $4 in parts or put your laptop on a box doesn't mean you should. If it looks like you made it out of $4 in parts or is an old diaper box you probably don't actually care about your workspace.

lol

> Get one with a motor in it. "Damn I need to get a standing desk. I sit around too much and don't move around enough. GOD I definitely need to order the motorized version!"

As with many things in life, reducing activation energy can have dramatic effects.

For example: Most of the people I know, even the health conscious, don't get annual physicals. I pressed them on why, and it came down to this: They didn't want to spend a half-day getting it done. There's just too much activation energy: scheduling, commute, checking in, waiting around, finally seeing the doc for 10 minutes, driving back to work. It's even worse when you have to return for labs because they didn't inform you that you should fast before drawing blood for labs. Simply reducing the activation energy goes a long, long way!

The last time I got a physical my doctor told me annual physicals are not necessary or recommended for someone my age.

There is such a thing as excessive screening and testing. PSA testing (for prostate cancer) had so many false positives resulting in procedures that were ultimately harmful for the patients that the recommendation to get the test routinely was dropped entirely. Recently the American Cancer Society changed its mammogram recommendation age from 40 to 45. The U.S. Preventive Services Task Force Services went further and suggested 50 should be the age. Again, the reason is false-positives causing harmful outcomes.

Here in Japan we have a mandatory once a year checkup, and have to submit the results to our employer. Im still not sure if i agree with the once a year, but it makes my wife worry less.

I greatly disagree with the giving it to the employer part, which is one of the reasons im switchng to freelance work.

Yeah, it's easy to say that, but you're assumptions are wrong. Spending time and breaking flow waiting for a desk to go up/down is a waste. I can keep typing and focusing while the desk goes up and down.

Also, I don't stand because it burns calories and I wouldn't expect to burn significant calories cranking a desk or holding a button.

As someone who uses a fixed standing desk without a chair, aside from a desire to do periodic squats, I don't see the appeal of a transforming desk. But I know I am coming at this with a totally different point of view, and everyone's tastes are different. So I'm obviously not saying you're wrong.

The following bit piqued my curiosity:

> Regarding the above items, you'll probably want to move it up and down every 45 minutes to 1.5 hours.

You transform your desk several times a day? I am surprised. I really didn't think transforming desks saw that much transformation in practice. Sounds like you are getting great value out of it!

The desk is constantly going up and down. Depends on what I'm working on, how my back is feeling (dealing with a herniated disc). I actually spend a lot of time pacing on the phone right now, so I may have it up for an hour phone call and then down for some writing.
I have a motorized sit/stand desk that doesn't have presets. It's not that bad, but I do agree that it's probably worth spending a little extra on. I sometimes try to keep typing with one hand while I'm pushing the up/down button, and that doesn't work so well.
We have 3 of the Ikea Bekant motorized standing desks in our office. They are great and we have had zero problems. My favorite feature is the simple mesh cable pocket underneath the desk, which is a great solution for hiding all the cable clutter.
How long have you been using them for, and how often are they raised/lowered?
About 5 months now. I raise/lower mine probably 2-3x/day 5 days/week. Others are adjusted less often.
Not sure if you'll get an answer from OP but I have a Bekant at home and I've had it for 3 months now or so, and I raise/lower it probably once or twice a week (it spends most of it's time raised).

I've had no problems with the motor and the legs, it raises and lowers quickly and smoothly. The motor and legs do come with a 10 year warranty for what it's worth.

If I have one complaint, it's that it has a tiny bit of wobble, but it's a very minor complaint and not any kind of deal-breaker for me, especially when comparing the price of other motorized sit/stand desks.

Got one for a month and half now. With the 2 - 3 standing 'sessions' per day I can't complain. The motors so far survived even my child playing with it (and that means a lot of action)
Had a Bekant for over a year now. Lower it maybe 3 times per week. Works flawlessly! At the time I bought it for $500. Best setup "pound for pound" in my opinion.