Exactly. There are TONS of new grad nurses out there who can't get jobs. Some of them go to medical call centers or outpatient clinics because they can't get any actual clinical or hospital experience. I know about 25 people just like this in the Bay Area.
What hospitals want but can't hire is some nurse with 3 years ER experience, 4 years ICU experience, who teaches ACLS and is willing to work for 65k.
It's just like the "engineering shortage" ... if they increase salaries, they can get what they claim they need/can't get.
Otherwise, they just need to hire and train new grads, which they totally don't want to do.
Same here. In my area, this is one of the top professions to go into. All of them complain about how hard it is to get in and the obstacles along the way. It's so difficult that the senior ones feel a lot of pride in their position. Seem to earn it, too.
So, the solution is to reduce or remove those obstacles where possible so people can get the jobs and experiences they need. I mean, 80-90% of most nurse activities I see are more about effort than arcane knowledge or skills. Could let new hires mostly do that while bringing them in for other stuff several times a day to gradually build up their experience. Hand more stuff like that off to them over time.
A bunch of institutions doing this with just a handful of people at a time should make a huge difference in the availability of qualified talents starting after a few years.
New Zealand has a shortage of sonographers and a growing MR tech shortage.
Sonographers were paid more to work at private clinics and the public system lost staff and have been forced to outsource the work, leading to more private work and more staff leaving for private clinics. Seeking to try and prevent this happening with MRI as well as ultrasound there are moves to loosen regulation and allow staff with minimal/no training in MRI (but trained in radiography) to perform MR scans. It's interesting to watch, somehow the government health boards (and the odd private employer who can't stomach paying their staff properly) seem to think capitalism doesn't apply to them and that their crap wages aren't responsible for their staff shortages.
Pretty much. How is this not just a mirror image of H-1B nonsense tech journalism? The whole point here is to gin up support for an increase in whatever immigration cap applies to nurses. I'll eat my hat if there's an actual shortage that couldn't be fixed with pay raises.
Just keep immigration and education low, and this'll be sure to fix itself, because market forces!
No amount of freedom and patriotism will create nurses if you're neither training nor importing them.
Over here in the UK we have a perennial nursing shortage - so we'll be kicking a load out of the country come April, because the scurrilous auslanders are stealing British jobs! That no British person will fill! But hey! Patriotism! It's the principle of the thing, right?!
But, worry not - when you and I are elderly and in need of nursing care - there will be no way of meeting capacity, unless half the population is in elder care, or old folks are looked after by Robots, or just euthanised as they're no longer productive to the state that owns them.
The stats are out there - and in short the pay is considered too low by most who would want to nurse to actually pursue a career - starts at 21k, tops out at 35k - and bursuries and grants for educational and training costs are unavailable for most - the means test requires you and your family to earn less than a living income to actually get funding.
Apocryphally, my other half wanted to be a nurse, but couldn't get any assistance to fund her studies. She went to work as a carer instead, which requires less in the way of qualifications, but if you're earning minimum wage and having to spend most of your income on fuel to reach your patients, it doesn't make sense to pursue.
No - nursing roles tend to be most readily fulfilled by those who have trained overseas, have a favourable purchasing parity power in their country of origin compared to the UK, and have a modest cost of living, what with that being prepared to work your nuts off to achieve your aspirations thing that has largely been washed out of the West. A growing number of folks seem to be waiting for lightning to strike, as everybody eventually wins the lottery or becomes a pop star.
My understanding of the situation is that health trusts have been cutting back on training in favour of hiring already qualified nurses from overseas for reasons of financial expediency.
I don't think it's just a case of people in the UK waiting to win the lottery instead.
A minor point but if she's paid she's not a carer, she's a care worker or care assistant or personal assistant or personal care worker or etc.
Carer is a term reserved in English law for someone who provides care but who s not paid to do so. (Usually a spouse, or parent, or child.)
This sounds like a minor quibble, but we know it takes a long time (average 2 years for adult carers, average 5 years for under 18 carers) to identify people who are carers. We also know that often people don't self-identify as carers because "I don't get paid to do this".
If you want a preview of a market failure, look at midwifes in Germany. Low pay and skyrocketing insurances drove most out of them out of business and no one adjusted the rates. Lots of them aren't working anymore in the job they learned and loved. It's next to impossible now to get one - and you don't even know or appreciate that job until you're getting kids yourself: A target demographic that's just too small by now to make enough noise to bring them back.
From Spiegel: The midwives are demanding 30 percent greater pay for the services they provide that are covered by insurance providers with the national healthcare system. However, the pay rise faces an uphill battle since it would require that an exception be made in German legislation limiting the payments made by insurers for certain types of care.
Also the medical industry is phasing out the use of 2 year (Associate's RN) and LPNs, which makes the problem worse. They do not like to hire new grad nurses, which makes the problem worse. They haven't given significant raises, which makes the problem worse. 100% of the behavior of nursing employers leads me to believe that there is not actually a shortage, and that everybody just likes to claim that one exists.
My wife is currently in nursing school and is planning on working an unpaid internship for the better part of a year because otherwise when you graduate ... you can't get a job.
I was going to ask... are there enough people in Nursing school? Other professions complain of a shortage of talent, and yet schools are full of capable students who can't get hired.
This is true... for example in software development or Law.
My wife is a Nurse Practitioner. When she started down that path she had to get into nursing school to earn an RN. Just getting into a school, any school was extremely difficult. The programs are very competitive with limited space. She made it work because she is brilliant and tenacious but that period was really rough.
If 'they' were really worried about the nursing shortage they would introduce more tiers of qualified nursing to cover the gap. Like it was said earlier, places are not hiring LPNs anymore and are putting the squeeze on RNs. The shortage is not because there are a shortage of people who want to be nurses but it is because it is so difficult to get to a level where you are desirable.
Actually they do. There is a similar problem in New Zealand with radiology staff. Employers are trying to get staff but without offering more money. They can't find any staff. They are now pushing to change laws such that staff who currently aren't qualified to operate the equipment will be allowed to. The staff they want to operate the equipment have no training. Zero. The employers who are keen on the changes have not tried offering to pay more. They are ideologically opposed to those low down in the ranks being paid more.
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[ 0.17 ms ] story [ 49.6 ms ] threadWhat hospitals want but can't hire is some nurse with 3 years ER experience, 4 years ICU experience, who teaches ACLS and is willing to work for 65k.
It's just like the "engineering shortage" ... if they increase salaries, they can get what they claim they need/can't get.
Otherwise, they just need to hire and train new grads, which they totally don't want to do.
So, the solution is to reduce or remove those obstacles where possible so people can get the jobs and experiences they need. I mean, 80-90% of most nurse activities I see are more about effort than arcane knowledge or skills. Could let new hires mostly do that while bringing them in for other stuff several times a day to gradually build up their experience. Hand more stuff like that off to them over time.
A bunch of institutions doing this with just a handful of people at a time should make a huge difference in the availability of qualified talents starting after a few years.
No amount of freedom and patriotism will create nurses if you're neither training nor importing them.
Over here in the UK we have a perennial nursing shortage - so we'll be kicking a load out of the country come April, because the scurrilous auslanders are stealing British jobs! That no British person will fill! But hey! Patriotism! It's the principle of the thing, right?!
But, worry not - when you and I are elderly and in need of nursing care - there will be no way of meeting capacity, unless half the population is in elder care, or old folks are looked after by Robots, or just euthanised as they're no longer productive to the state that owns them.
Do you have some evidence to back up this statement?
Apocryphally, my other half wanted to be a nurse, but couldn't get any assistance to fund her studies. She went to work as a carer instead, which requires less in the way of qualifications, but if you're earning minimum wage and having to spend most of your income on fuel to reach your patients, it doesn't make sense to pursue.
No - nursing roles tend to be most readily fulfilled by those who have trained overseas, have a favourable purchasing parity power in their country of origin compared to the UK, and have a modest cost of living, what with that being prepared to work your nuts off to achieve your aspirations thing that has largely been washed out of the West. A growing number of folks seem to be waiting for lightning to strike, as everybody eventually wins the lottery or becomes a pop star.
I don't think it's just a case of people in the UK waiting to win the lottery instead.
A minor point but if she's paid she's not a carer, she's a care worker or care assistant or personal assistant or personal care worker or etc.
Carer is a term reserved in English law for someone who provides care but who s not paid to do so. (Usually a spouse, or parent, or child.)
This sounds like a minor quibble, but we know it takes a long time (average 2 years for adult carers, average 5 years for under 18 carers) to identify people who are carers. We also know that often people don't self-identify as carers because "I don't get paid to do this".
(But I agree with the rest of your post).
How is this a market failure?
My wife is currently in nursing school and is planning on working an unpaid internship for the better part of a year because otherwise when you graduate ... you can't get a job.
This article stinks.
This is true... for example in software development or Law.
If 'they' were really worried about the nursing shortage they would introduce more tiers of qualified nursing to cover the gap. Like it was said earlier, places are not hiring LPNs anymore and are putting the squeeze on RNs. The shortage is not because there are a shortage of people who want to be nurses but it is because it is so difficult to get to a level where you are desirable.