In my experience, the interest of one or both of the parties in meeting drops quickly to ~0 if you wait any longer than 1- 2 weeks after starting messaging to arrange to meet.
I agree. The initial messaging is to spark some sense of play and to screen for robots/crazy people. After that's established there's really not much to be gained by further messaging.
It's niche marketing. If they are still interested after a few weeks of messaging they are more likely to settle and less likely to bounce after the next shiny.
Because everyone is different. Some people prefer to meet right away. They're usually upfront about that. Some people are more hesitant (or even afraid!), and need time to make sure the other person isn't "crazy." I've experienced both, and both are generally normal people that approach things differently. But this is also contingent on the people being honest. There are many people that are simply looking for the gratification of interest. Unfortunately those people are very common. But you can weed through them pretty quickly. It all comes down to a somewhat delicate balance of social give-and-take. If that isn't there, then you know to move on. But if you're looking for instant gratification with people, you'll certainly find that with some. But you'll also certainly be missing out on others.
> Some people are more hesitant (or even afraid!), and need time to make sure the other person isn't "crazy."
Exactly this, especially for women, and people looking for a long term relationship. A week or three of conversation weeds out people who are just looking to hook up and impulsive people whose interest isn't that deep.
After having a few long-term but ultimately unsuccessful relationships via online dating, I'm holding out for some god damn serendipity for the next one.
I don't believe in "the one" or any of that flighty bullshit, but I do feel there is just something different about the bond you make with another human if you just happen to find yourselves in a situation together, rather than the logical omniscience effect of knowing that you sort of engineered to be together, and knowing that they know that you know this, and so on.
Don't get me wrong. The few partners I've had from dating apps were amazing people and I'm glad to have known them. There's nothing wrong with finding partners that way and many people find a lot of happiness through it.
I think I just feel saturated by online dating and the pre-engineered and instant gratification feelings that can come along with it.
It reminds me of a DFW quote:
“Both destiny's kisses and its dope-slaps illustrate an individual person's basic personal powerlessness over the really meaningful events in his life: i.e. almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of Psst that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer.”
The lesson from the quote would be to actually observe more for what you are looking. Coincidences are common, but it isn't serendipity until you actually notice it.
>I think I just feel saturated by online dating and the pre-engineered and instant gratification feelings that can come along with it.
Instant gratification seems to be the downfall of many a relationship. The honey-moon effect (iirc the name) is a problem if one or both partners rely on instant gratification to sustain the relationship.
I didn't seek instant gratification, nor did my partners. And in fact, one thing I had in common with each partner was a mutual dislike of the online interface through which we met specifically because we felt it forced instant gratification mindset upon you.
This is only an anecdote, of course, so others may have vastly different experiences. But for me, it felt impossible to interact with almost all other participants in a dating platform unless you did seek instant gratification -- because that's what everyone else was evaluating in you (the ability to serve as instant gratification for them).
That's what I mean in terms of disliking the instant gratification aspects of the dating platforms. It seems integral to the platform, regardless of whether it's part of what you personally are seeking (it wasn't for me) and this has been constant across several different platforms over a fairly long period of time, so it seems more like a consistent trait of online dating platforms than a particular consequence of how one uses them.
I think that's less true than Picasso - "Inspiration exists, but it has to catch you working". Or indeed Palmer - "The more I practice, the luckier I get". It's important to be flexible and open to serendipity - but it's all too easy to use that as an excuse to avoid putting in any effort.
I speculate that DFW's take on it would be something like: sure, we can reap some rewards by working hard and being prepared, but really the amount that those things affect our lives is really small compared to huge, uncontrollable things, like which genetics you were dealt, or whether your parents were killed by a tornado when you were 5, or what country you are born in.
We spend a lot of time rationalizing that our successes are somehow due to our efforts and our failures are somehow not our fault. We especially idolize high-status successes, like Picasso, and venerate such rationalizations when they come from such people. And we especially despise such rationalizations when they come from the poor, and so we hold silent contempt when we hear the homeless man on the subway explaining why it's not his fault he is so down on his luck.
But [I think DFW might say] in the end it's still really just one fatalistic crapshoot. That's not a good reason to work harder, nor is it a good reason to slack off and just say "c'est la vie." It's not a reason for anything ... it's just how things are.
I'm not saying this hypothetical DFW point of view is right. I'm just saying I don't think it has that much to do with rationalizations about past successes being used as motivation.
I'm a little weird myself when it comes to age. I generally do not care about the age of the woman I am dating. If I like her and find her attractive that's enough for me. In terms of numbers, the oldest woman I've dated was 22 years older than me and the youngest woman I've ever dated who was 18 years younger than me and I've dated all ages in-between. (My circle of friends is also widely distributed in terms of age.)
You won't find me on Tinder. Mainly because I see it as a hookup app, and I'm not about that life. But also...
...from what I've seen (with young female friends who have used the app and dated older guys) the guys on Tinder take the opposite approach to age. To them, age matters more than the person. They're not out there looking to make a connection with a person. They're on there trying to score with young women, deny their own aging, or both; and their approach makes me think they never had game even when they were younger. Creepy is the only word for it.
What's your definition of "older people?" If you're talking about above 35, yes, they do. However Tinder charges them twice as much for "Tinder Plus." And the landscape is definitely different. From what I've seen in my area, it's as people are just thinking that it's another version of ChristianMingle. Definitely not a "hookup app" for them. And a lot of users are just using it to cast a wider net too, which isn't surprising.
The % of people I know who found a LTR that translated into a marriage via online dating is still significantly lower than the people I know who met their eventual mate through friends/meetups/work. I'd guess in my social network, it's 20% from dating apps, 80% from IRL. Granted I'm in the 20s/30s bracket, which may still be on the horizon of the societal shift.
Since Jan 2016, I've tested going to meetups on Meetup.com vs using daily usage of dating apps.
Through Meetup.com meetups, I've found occasional dates but also made friends with incredible people, expanded my social network, and continued with self-improvement. To be engaged in ways that challenge me and to occasionally meet and date accomplished women is something to look forward to every single week.
Comparatively, online dating has been hugely disproportionate when calculating time invested vs. time rewarded. I either write messages that get ignored. Or login into the app to indicate interest in matches that eventually don't result in a date. It feels like really boring and demoralizing work.
I'm not saying people can't be successful with online dating. It's just for me, I don't find it particularly gratifying.
If you mean societal shift in terms of accepting online dating, that happened a long time ago. But I think in your age range what you're talking about is access. College-educated 20-somethings are largely single and spend a lot of time around single people. As people get older or more rural the market thins out and serendipity needs a little help.
On the other hand, for people who are finding they just don't meet enough single people naturally, I do recommend approaches like Meetup vs direct dating sites, for all the reasons you mentioned plus you immediately get past all the awkward artificial BS that happens on dating sites. And I don't mean the singles groups on Meetup, just do something fun that might interest the opposite sex. We married with children types (at least young children) don't have much time for that sort of thing anyway and the attendance will naturally skew towards singles.
Dating apps favour the top 20% of men, and the top 50% of women. The data says as much. I do think there is a 'cliff' where the amount of responses you get drop at a certain point - whether from height, income level, whatever. In real life it's much more nuanced than that because people sort themselves out gradually and not as much from limited statistics or even just visuals.
The issue for men (and to a lesser extent, women) at the bottom of that cliff is that online dating has the possibility to demoralise the person into not doing actual physical dating. I do think we are entering a period where a significant chunk of the population is going to finish life having never had a real life partner.
Were it not for friends, insightful books, and Meetup.com meetups, I'd be a lot more demoralized over the dating process. IRL social settings at least provide something beneficial, specifically meeting people who can become friends/industry connections and level up ones social skills. Thus even with hundreds of hours doing meetups can result in something beneficial even if it no potential is found, whereas solely doing online dating with little results can foster helplessness.
Well, Badoo's high adoption is probably helped by the fact that they keep acquiring other apps and replacing them with badoo, even if they keep their names (Lulu, for instance).
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 69.4 ms ] threadA bit off topic, but is this common place? You spend a few weeks? Why not just meet in person and not waste everyone's time?
Exactly this, especially for women, and people looking for a long term relationship. A week or three of conversation weeds out people who are just looking to hook up and impulsive people whose interest isn't that deep.
I don't believe in "the one" or any of that flighty bullshit, but I do feel there is just something different about the bond you make with another human if you just happen to find yourselves in a situation together, rather than the logical omniscience effect of knowing that you sort of engineered to be together, and knowing that they know that you know this, and so on.
Don't get me wrong. The few partners I've had from dating apps were amazing people and I'm glad to have known them. There's nothing wrong with finding partners that way and many people find a lot of happiness through it.
I think I just feel saturated by online dating and the pre-engineered and instant gratification feelings that can come along with it.
It reminds me of a DFW quote:
“Both destiny's kisses and its dope-slaps illustrate an individual person's basic personal powerlessness over the really meaningful events in his life: i.e. almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of Psst that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer.”
>I think I just feel saturated by online dating and the pre-engineered and instant gratification feelings that can come along with it.
Instant gratification seems to be the downfall of many a relationship. The honey-moon effect (iirc the name) is a problem if one or both partners rely on instant gratification to sustain the relationship.
This is only an anecdote, of course, so others may have vastly different experiences. But for me, it felt impossible to interact with almost all other participants in a dating platform unless you did seek instant gratification -- because that's what everyone else was evaluating in you (the ability to serve as instant gratification for them).
That's what I mean in terms of disliking the instant gratification aspects of the dating platforms. It seems integral to the platform, regardless of whether it's part of what you personally are seeking (it wasn't for me) and this has been constant across several different platforms over a fairly long period of time, so it seems more like a consistent trait of online dating platforms than a particular consequence of how one uses them.
We spend a lot of time rationalizing that our successes are somehow due to our efforts and our failures are somehow not our fault. We especially idolize high-status successes, like Picasso, and venerate such rationalizations when they come from such people. And we especially despise such rationalizations when they come from the poor, and so we hold silent contempt when we hear the homeless man on the subway explaining why it's not his fault he is so down on his luck.
But [I think DFW might say] in the end it's still really just one fatalistic crapshoot. That's not a good reason to work harder, nor is it a good reason to slack off and just say "c'est la vie." It's not a reason for anything ... it's just how things are.
I'm not saying this hypothetical DFW point of view is right. I'm just saying I don't think it has that much to do with rationalizations about past successes being used as motivation.
by the terms of that analogy, sorta, but they’re weird
I'm a little weird myself when it comes to age. I generally do not care about the age of the woman I am dating. If I like her and find her attractive that's enough for me. In terms of numbers, the oldest woman I've dated was 22 years older than me and the youngest woman I've ever dated who was 18 years younger than me and I've dated all ages in-between. (My circle of friends is also widely distributed in terms of age.)
You won't find me on Tinder. Mainly because I see it as a hookup app, and I'm not about that life. But also...
...from what I've seen (with young female friends who have used the app and dated older guys) the guys on Tinder take the opposite approach to age. To them, age matters more than the person. They're not out there looking to make a connection with a person. They're on there trying to score with young women, deny their own aging, or both; and their approach makes me think they never had game even when they were younger. Creepy is the only word for it.
The % of people I know who found a LTR that translated into a marriage via online dating is still significantly lower than the people I know who met their eventual mate through friends/meetups/work. I'd guess in my social network, it's 20% from dating apps, 80% from IRL. Granted I'm in the 20s/30s bracket, which may still be on the horizon of the societal shift.
Since Jan 2016, I've tested going to meetups on Meetup.com vs using daily usage of dating apps.
Through Meetup.com meetups, I've found occasional dates but also made friends with incredible people, expanded my social network, and continued with self-improvement. To be engaged in ways that challenge me and to occasionally meet and date accomplished women is something to look forward to every single week.
Comparatively, online dating has been hugely disproportionate when calculating time invested vs. time rewarded. I either write messages that get ignored. Or login into the app to indicate interest in matches that eventually don't result in a date. It feels like really boring and demoralizing work.
I'm not saying people can't be successful with online dating. It's just for me, I don't find it particularly gratifying.
On the other hand, for people who are finding they just don't meet enough single people naturally, I do recommend approaches like Meetup vs direct dating sites, for all the reasons you mentioned plus you immediately get past all the awkward artificial BS that happens on dating sites. And I don't mean the singles groups on Meetup, just do something fun that might interest the opposite sex. We married with children types (at least young children) don't have much time for that sort of thing anyway and the attendance will naturally skew towards singles.
The issue for men (and to a lesser extent, women) at the bottom of that cliff is that online dating has the possibility to demoralise the person into not doing actual physical dating. I do think we are entering a period where a significant chunk of the population is going to finish life having never had a real life partner.
Were it not for friends, insightful books, and Meetup.com meetups, I'd be a lot more demoralized over the dating process. IRL social settings at least provide something beneficial, specifically meeting people who can become friends/industry connections and level up ones social skills. Thus even with hundreds of hours doing meetups can result in something beneficial even if it no potential is found, whereas solely doing online dating with little results can foster helplessness.