Ask HN: When should you quit?

You probably can't really tell whether you want to leave tech forever, or just leave being extremely poorly paid and appreciated for your work in tech forever.

To tell the difference, you might have to take a Normal Tech Job, when you're ready for it.

I worked too hard on developing software and got stressed out and developed a mental illness and became disabled.

I went back to college to take a business management degree and earned one. Thinking that I might do better as a manager. But since I have no experience as a manager, no luck in getting a job.

It is very hard to work on your own, and earn money. You need a team of people, you need investors, you need social and people skills. You need to market your product and SEO your website to get clients and customers.

I've worked on software projects that went nowhere because I couldn't get anyone interested in them.

I'm 47 now and figure my career is basically over. I could try Freelance after updating my skills to modern languages, build new projects and a portfolio, but I don't see the point when everyone else is doing that and there is a lot of competition.

I may be reading between the lines, but it sounds like it's the business side of things that is becoming miserable. If you still enjoy writing software, it might be worth worth exploring opportunities outside of self-employment. Working for a manager comes with its own set of problems, but it can be a whole lot less stressful financially and emotionally.

Programming for a career does appear to affect the soul. I mean soul in the sense of self and relation to the world around self and general sense of happiness. I thought it was just me but I'm noticing it in others. Don't get me wrong... the excitement of solving problems and making things is addictive. It's a really nice high. But it definitely take a toll as certainly as laying bricks or driving semis day after day does. I don't have any actionable advice. I try to take time to do other things.. projects in the physical world. It helps some. Maybe you should get a job and change environments. Maybe you should do something else for a while. IDK... but I do feel for you.

> Ask HN: When should you quit?

You should quit when you write up a post like this and submit it to HN.

Go take a well deserved break to find yourself. Meditate, or do activities that you feel are meditative.

If you need a place to stay and rest, look to your friends/family.

If you have a business that needs to be taken care of, either sell it or hire someone to take over things like customer support, etc.

If you're feeling burnt out it means you need to take several months off because you haven't been taking care of yourself or doing the things that energize you.

I wish you the best of luck.

— Speaking as someone who went through this type of thing.

You are a hero, and what I consider to be the definition of a real man. You did the hardest thing on earth for 6 years - you tried to build something new and useful to this planet.

I guarantee you learned a great deal about business, about technical topics, it was probably like getting an MBA and a PhD all rolled up in one.

It was a lonely path, and it still will be if you continue. It is the nature of the task. Perhaps it is time to go out among the "just started this path" types for just a little bit. After talking with you for 5 minutes, they will probably think you are a God for surviving this long, and because they sense your 6 years of vast experience.

Take a week or two off in some small town without high speed internet. You probably need a good solid vacation.

Working alone is extra exhausting. Why don't you just find a new job, where you actually have coworkers, instead of quitting tech?

Take a six month break from computers and the Internet. If you absolutely must, you can check your e-mail once a week, but no further tech than that. During those six months you can vacation (if you saved up some money during your years of coding), or, if you need money to get by, you could work some menial job. After six months, if you feel up to it, you could decide to return to the field of software development. However, I hope you'll resolve to never again work as a software developer for peanuts. It's mentally taxing work that ought to provide you with plenty of money.

i've been there. I also tried to think of new ideas to work on but I couldn't put any energy into it. I used to think I was a very creative person but even that I started to have serious doubt about. That's when I decided to take a break. I think you ran out of energy NOT because you're working in tech, but because you're working for yourself (This is pretty natural). Take a break and mindlessly work for someone else. After 6 months to a year you'll have recovered completely and probably be overflowing with ideas and energy.

First, taking a break is probably the most important. If you're burned out, don't underestimate the need for healing by just relaxing. If you can't afford to take a long break (no savings, etc), find a really easy job where you don't need to think much.

Honestly, the most relaxing job of my life was when I was lifting and restacking wood in a shipping warehouse. The lumber would come in on these big trucks, but they'd be stacked in a way where they couldn't fit optimally into shipping containers. So we were responsible for literally manually restacking the wood into stacks that would fit. I got to joke around with my co-workers, and the work was great exercise too. Heck, I even poohed better due to all the heavy lifting in that job. Every day, I'd go home exhausted, but happy, and have a really great night's sleep. I felt like I did an honest day's hard work and there was no debate about whether or not I was succeeding at my job too.

Don't think that you're going to get away from tech forever yet. You might find later that you really actually still like it, but you just aren't in a good place right now, so it's hard to distinguish what your emotions really mean. Or maybe you are completely done with tech. Take some time to heal and rest first for a few months, and then ask the question again.

I like jacquesm's blog posts on this subject, in the first one listed, he actually personally experiences and deals with similar questions: http://jacquesmattheij.com/categories/health

edit: Thought. If you can afford it, something like Habitat for Humanity is a great way to get that type of physical exercise, and also give back and feel like you're contributing to a worthy cause. I think it gives us warm fuzzy feelings when we're doing something for the greater good, and that helps. Heck, you might become good at it and discover that you'd rather be in construction, who knows? Again, if you can't afford it, I recommend finding a simple job where you can turn your brain off and just do stuff, preferably with a physical component.

This is a long shot because I don't know where you live, and only have HN as my source of widespread info on tech careers. But if you're in SV or somewhere like that, maybe you'd be happier in a more provincial setting. You might be able to find an employer with a more laid back environment, and a slower paced lifestyle, more access to the great outdoors, etc.

I did something similar, a couple decades ago: Pulled up stakes and moved to a town that was listed as a "best place to live," with a similar climate to where I grew up, etc. Best decision I ever made.

I am 28 and feel exactly like you: one difference, I have never gone on my own, I have always been an employee at a huge corporation.

Right now, I look up to you a lot, you had the balls to go on your own.

I don't have a solution to this, I can only let you know that you are not alone and I relate 100%. I would get a 9to5 job, save some money, and quit and travel for a while, find your passion. This is what I hope to do, hopefully soon

Quit. But quit with a caveat:

> I haven't had any success and all I've done was get taken advantaged of by crappy customers, worked for free for years, and yeah. [...] > And it was all for shit.

This part is bullshit.

You can't see it, but all of those petty, trivial, and fragile moments have influenced who you are now.

It might take months, maybe years, for that investment to come back with dividends. The seeds of what you have learned are just now taking root for tomorrow.

Contrary to all of the late-era Capitalist rhetoric, life is not a narrative. You aren't something destined. You aren't an arc.

You are a human fucking being living an accident of delicate and frail circumstances.

Let life lead you. In due time, the act of quitting may well be the turning point that led down a tremendous path you would never have previously seen...

I feel the same, but I am trying to dedicate my hard-earned skills and experience to healthcare so that I can focus my week days on doing something which will someday help saving lives. Otherwise, I think most Tech is a gamble with VC's money (they do have a lot) and at the end we will end up corrupting human generations with information/consumption overload and decent skills to talk to people and enjoy life as it comes. At some point when I was working for a advertising startup, I burnt myself out and it was a good first step at realizing how not to work and inculcated lot of good habits (like frequent breaks, making sure I don't work beyond a certain time everyday, planning for the day {velocity > speed} etc) which re-energized me. And at the end I know, health will win over wealth so it's important I exercise and enjoy each day and worry less about work when I am not working.

If isolation is an issue, perhaps there is a co-working space or public space at which you can work. If you don't want to work in public, maybe you just need to go to some meetups, professional organization, makerspace, or some other type of group where people come to socialize. You may want to try a mix of tech and non-tech type groups. I found when I was running my own business in my early 20s that a local user group provided a good way to meet new customers and interact with people. I also tried things like board game meetups, "young professional" groups, etc. even if I didn't like the people or never went back, I found it a good to break up my routine. I would also make sure to spend time outside, at the public library, just leave the apartment for lunch, etc.

I have often thought about leaving tech or going to a different area within tech, I can empathize that its scary to think you are a specialized cog that can't really do anything else. It may be helpful to reach out to a career professional for some advice - for example if you went to a college/university, they usually provide career counseling for alumni, local libraries also often have resources or people who may help. If you are thinking of staying in your own business, you may want to try your local Small Business Association chapter (or equivalent if you are outside of the US).

Remember, your greatest asset is often not what you know, but that you know how to think and make critical decisions. I am sure you have learned a new programming language or figured out how to deal with a bad customer. Those are skills which can be generalized and applied in other areas. It may be hard or scary to take the step on how to apply these skills in a different area, but you may be able to think of low risk ways of trying it out. Maybe there is some type of freelancing gig outside your realm or even outside of tech you could try. Some of the networking ideas about may help you bump into someone who needs your skills - even if its not paid work, they may buy you a coffee just to pick you mind.

I would also second some of the other comments on getting a mindless or corporate job for a while, taking a vacation, tech detox, etc.

In sum, the first step is to break out of your routine and try something. You may have heard of paralysis by analysis... sometime you have to just take that first step and not worry about having the perfect optimal, zero risk plan in place.

> "I feel so old to be trying something completely new."

Dude. You're 30. I'm not going to post the cliche list of people who've done amazing, impactful things after age 30, but please understand that that list easily runs to the hundreds of millions. You have a lot of time to do whatever you want. Take a break. If you still want to get out of tech, then jump into another field. If not, just take a normal tech job and be one of us drones for a bit. It won't kill you, and it might reenergize your desire to make your own thing.

You're been working on your own thing for six years, which means you started it before you had even reached the age where you could rent a car. You have never experienced a normal life. Give it a shot. It's not as terrible as it's sometimes made out to be. I'm not making a billion dollars, but I get paid well and I go home to a nice place; I live with a beautiful girlfriend and I exercise at a nice gym and take fun vacations and eat at nice restaurants and drink fancy scotches. It's not jetting to Malta on the weekends, but it's better than what the vast majority of people on this earth who are around our age can hope for.

And doing that doesn't mean you've given up and sold out or whatever. You can work on side projects when they make you happy. The cult of the entrepreneur hasn't done right by you. Try another path, and see if it works better. It might fit you better, or it might reenergize you to get back into the startup space, or it might make you realize you need to live in a hippie commune. (If that's the case, I know a place.)

I'm 53 and have been working as a programmer since I was 17. I still love what I do but I've been where you are at several times. I'll tell you something you probably already know - it's impossible to make a good decision where you are at right now. For what it's worth I'd suggest taking a break and then deciding what to do once you have some distance and have shaken some of this off.

You're not gonna quit, you're just going to take a break. Pretty soon you'll be ready to go again. Just take a breather.

If you're going to make an irrational decision, do it out of love, not hate.

When was the last time you fell in love? Maybe it was a girlfriend, perhaps it was a language? Perhaps it was with an apple product?

I realize your questioning why I'm asking this. But here's the thing. If you're going to make an irrational decision, do it out of love, not out of hate.

My love is photography, I fell in love with it while taking a camera to a juggling convention, and shooting a friend on stage. Nowadays, I can take a camera in my hand, and what ever is bothering me starts to disappear when the camera clicks. The how or why doesn't matter to me -- what matters is that I feel better after.

So, what makes you feel better?

Don't worry man, lots of us (me too! I'm 33!) started companies while young. Shutting them down is liberating, not every effort comes to monumental financial success. Some say that the true measure of a person is how they respond to challenges. Knowing that there is no set direction in life, it's really healthy to embrace moments of reconsideration. Don't worry about deviating from some social obligation of fervently chasing dollars. Changing physical and social environments can be very powerful. If you have some money in the bank then I would highly recommend going to travel on the cheap to some different countries. Learn about where you go, explore. Try to limit the time while you are away spent with people from your own culture. It will help you relax, and stimulate you in new directions. You might even try something new that pops up on the way, and find new directions you might like to consider: Diving. Studying. Teaching. Writing. Art. Picking up a new language. Running a hospitality business. Maybe even someone who gives you a shared direction in life?

Personally I shut my first company in 2009 after getting some recognition from VCs and support from angels, found success working for others for awhile, did a few years of remote, and now - some 7 years later - I'm starting businesses for myself again. It took that long to re-energise. We don't even have our website complete yet, but yesterday just signed our first client for enough money to buy a nice shiny new mountain bike. I plan to let it grow slowly and organically, not stress and to ride that mountain bike at least as much time as I spent in the office coding. Wiser these days.

Spend a year or two getting as strong as you can physically. It is just as important as exercising your mind.