Ask YC: Mid-sized, livable, hacker-friendly towns?
So... we're starting to think about "where?!". We have a child on the way, and I've "done my time" in the bay area. I'd rather have a smaller chance at making a successful startup than deal with that rat-race again.
Our preference is for somewhere livable, with a decent climate, "mid-sized" (say 100K-500K), with a university, and some topography (dead flat places need not apply:-).
How's Boulder, Colorado? Santa Fe, NM? Boulder's sort of up there on my list. I like Southern Oregon a lot too (Ashland), but it doesn't offer much in the way of job opportunities. My wife is in biotech, so someplace that offers something for her is high priority too (once again, the bay area would be good, but... not with a kid, and having to drive everywhere).
Anyone got a favorite mid-sized town that might not easily pop up on the radar, that more or less fits the bill?
Incidentally, this doesn't have to be in the US. We would be in Padova, Italy if everything else were equal, but the political and economic situation in Italy is not pretty right now. A romance language would probably be easier to deal with (indeed, I'm looking at an opportunity in Portugal).
Thanks guys, Dave
104 comments
[ 8.0 ms ] story [ 150 ms ] threadHowever, in terms of bike commute, or to say that it's hacker friendly, I don't see that myself. Have you found people that I haven't?
Also, is there much biotech outside of UMBI?
I currently live in Providence, RI which is about an hour south of Boston. Smaller hacker community, but at least there is one and its not to far from Boston either. We also have a growing BioTech industry thanks to Brown University. I have a friend that works at EpiVax and loves his job. Might be worth checking out.
We moved to California from Providence. The * best * assortment of restaurants in the whole country, as far as I'm concerned. The Boston Globe often says that 9 out of the 10 best restaurants in Boston are in Providence. Good entertainment scene, arts scene, etc...
Downsides: The townies (locals) get a little crusty, and you have to get used to the idea of government == corrupt.
We moved to LA so my wife could try out the film scene, and because my contract work in health care was drying up fast.
The winter's do get kind of long, though. And if you hear people talking about a coming, "Noreestah" go to the store and buy all the bread and milk you can. :)
If you do move to Providence, be sure that you live on the East Side of town. It can be really hard to make friends if you're living anywhere else. The native Rhode Islandics aren't really used to people from anywhere else, and it takes a long time to make any headway in the friends department. The East Side has RISD and Brown, so people on that side of town are a lot friendlier and used to strangers and "ethnic people". (My landlord's phrase, not mine. Ironic because he was very Irish. :D ).
Heck, anywhere in New England is pretty nice, and you can drive from one state to another in less than an hour. It's all pretty close.
I liked the boat house, in the Charles river, were you could register for $120/year, and learn how to sail. The urban transport is pretty good (better than bay area).
For me it was good for a year or two, and then it ended up being boring. Moved to SF, and my quality of life improved a lot. people are just way much friendlier in here.
edit. there are a lot of biotech jobs around there (in Cambridge mostly). Lot's of tech jobs, but it is mostly big coorporations, and nothing too exiting. Few startups, but no near the number of startups in SF bay area. But housing is cheaper, about %30 cheaper, but still very expensive (third most expensive area, after NYC, and SF). And you can meet lot's of smart people, with masters, phd's, etc. More intellectual than the bay area.
There's also Middletown, CT and New Haven, CT, both of which I've lived in. Middletown's a neat small city with Wesleyan University in town and a cool small downtown, classic New England. Anywhere in the Connecticut outback is a likely spot for some biotech, Bayer and others are big in the state.
New Haven was really ugly 15 years ago but now it's largely an awesome residential city; you want to live in the "grad ghetto" with all the Yalies. Cheap housing, great restaurants, cool up-and-coming atmosphere. I loved the year I spent there. The downside is schools - if you have kids you should send them to private school.
I don't know about the biotech scene, but I love visiting Portland, ME. Anybody able to speak to that city? Another great medium-sized New England town.
But there are a number of tech companies around, either in Cambridge/Somerville or in the Boston suburbs. The public transportation system is decent and the city is compact enough that a lot of things are within a half-hour drive of one another.
Regarding biotech, I used to work on the Human Genome Project at what is now the Broad Institute (which got spun off from the Whitehead Institute). Novartis rents a floor or two of the building I work in and owns a whole building a block away.
Boston's Museum of Science is a good place to take kids; they have a "Discovery Center" that's specifically oriented towards 0-to-5-year-olds, but my three- and five-year-old have fun at a lot of the other exhibits as well.
Boston is interesting in that population density declines pretty sharply as you move away from the city center. So Boston itself has a population of 600k and skyscrapers, Cambridge has 100k and still feels fairly urban, Arlington and Lexington each have about 40k people and feel like large towns, Bedford and Concord have 15k apiece and feel like small towns, and Carlisle has 4k and feels positively rural. I'm on an acre of land in Bedford, with woods in the back, and only 13 miles outside of Boston.
The northwest suburbs also don't lack cultural activities the way many suburbs do. You've got all the historical sites in Lexington, Bedford, and Concord; the Lexington symphony orchestra; community activities; libraries in each town; band concerts; fireworks displays on July 4; etc. I was going to say "Flipside is that you need a car to get to them," but even that's not really true: a bike path connects the town centers of Bedford, Lexington, Arlington, and the Alewife subway station in Cambridge.
Only problem is that property values are sky-high here, though they seem to be going down fast. The house across the street went on the market for a million, but finally sold for $630k six months later. Houses are still going for $1M+ in Concord and Carlisle.
Well, that and the "sufficiently small values of 'decent climate'". The cold & snow isn't as oppressive in more rural settings though; it's quite pretty out now.
The 6th street advice depends on who you are. If you are looking for live music, definitely 6th St. and the clubs on Red River. If you want cheaper drinks (like $1 Rum and Cokes of low quality), want to party with more of college-age crowd, are single and looking for attractive women, you will be very happy there. Very little work gets done on 6th St (unless you work in one of the bank buildings). Once the 6th st. crowd graduates, they hang out in the Warehouse District, which is around 4th and Colorado/Lavaca. This is where you go if you want more like a $4-5 drink or if you enjoy sipping Lattes. Less live music stuff. More cafes. I work out of a couple coffee shops over there, and also work out of a neighborhood called Hyde Park (which is not downtown). Austin is growing fast. There are many condos being built in the downtown area, particularly in the area that is now being called the "2nd Street District". Hyde Park is a cool little neighborhood if you don't want to hang out downtown. Houses are older, smaller, and more expensive there. When I say expensive, I mean Texas expensive, not California expensive.
I'll be at SXSW if anyone wants to meet up. I'll be attending the SXSW interactive and as many of the live music shows that I can fit in. The full list of over 1000 bands was released today and can be viewed at http://2008.sxsw.com/music/festival/alphalist/. Yes, all of them in one week.
For some funky shops and a cool place to visit in the day it'd be worth stopping by the South Congress area.
For live music places, I recommend Stubb's, Emo's, and The Parish Room (for more Indie Rock stuff), Elephant Room (for Jazz), Mohawk, and Antone's.
For a cool neighborhood pub with a jillion beers that you probably wouldn't run into normally, go to http://www.draughthouse.com/. Other places with a large beer selection where you can hear yourself talk are The Ginger Man and Opal Divine's.
Some magazine voted Alamo Drafthouse the best movie theater in the country. It's one of those theaters where you order a beer and food while you watch the movie, so I enjoy it more for a humorous movie. Some other magazine voted Book People the best bookstore in the country.
For good coffee places to use free wifi, go to Austin Java (Downtown), Halcyon (Downtown), Epoch (Hyde Park), Quack's (Hyde Park), Flightpath (Hyde Park), The Hideout (Downtown), Metro (by UT Campus), JP's Java (near UT campus), Little City (Downtown), or Spiderhouse (near UT campus).
Barton Springs and Zilker Park is where a lot of people go for outdoors stuff like running, walking dogs, frisbee golf, and swimming.
Shop at HEB for a big cheap grocery store. Go to Whole Foods or Central Market if you want to stock up on organic expensive stuff.
If you are rich and want to buy some designer sunglasses, go to the Domain or the 2nd St. District. If you are an indie/emo kid, go to SpiderHouse, Beauty Bar, or....Emo's. If you are a metalhead or goth type, there are some places on Red River for you.
For a really big delicious burger or some tasty wings, visit Casino El Camino on 6th. If you want some cheap gigantic breakfast tacos, go to Juan in a Million. For an open-faced burger with a mound of cheese fries piled on top, go to Hyde Park Grill. For a wine bar, go to Vino Vino.
A car is not very important if you know the Capital Metro bus routes and stay central, which is where most of the interesting stuff is anyway.
If you like bumming around a college campus, hang out around UT-Austin, which is between 26th and 21st st. Many people will be wearing an ugly burnt orange color, similar to the orange at the top of this web page.
larry's list covers the highlights much better than I could, although he unconscionably omitted a barbecue guide. Here's my list 1 - Salt Lick 2 - Rudy's 3 - Ironworks 4 - Stubb's
Salt Lick and Rudy's are both a little outside the city, but definitely worth the trip if you're renting a car
Other than that, I'd be sure to see the UT campus, downtown, and Town Lake
Austin has all the ingredients to be a great place for startups, with maybe the exception of a good investor climate. VC money seems dried up except for Austin Ventures, and the angels are conservative by SV standards. But regardless, its just about my favorite place.
Please shoot me an email if you'd ever like to chat startups (email in my profile)
However, if "good hacker community", and especially start-up community, is priority #1, I'd stay around SF Bay Area. Austin has only one traditional "software VC" and they're not nearly as open minded and progressive as numerous VCs in the Valley.
However, if you have a problem with heat, be warned. In the summer you expect 100 degrees every day. I like the heat, but it can be oppressive.
All the good things that other people are saying are accurate.
Oh, you have family. That's different. Still, Spain's nice and Portugal might be, too.
I mean Eugene and Corvallis both have most of the features you listed, plus you're an hour away from the coast and from the mountains...
For those looking to plug in to the Willamette Valley Tech social networks http://barcamp.org/BeaverBarCamp is coming up on March 1st in Corvallis.
http://siliconflorist.com/
"Calagator, the community project designed to give Portland one tech calendar to rule them all, has quickly begun to show signs of progress. In fact, events have begun populating the calendar already." http://calagator.org/
I didn't know Oregon (Corvallis) had such a vibrant technology culture/market.
It is full of startups and a big university. Bio tech, medical and video gaming are the big things in Madison startup-wise. Milwaukee is good for financial, corporate and real estate type things.
Fun fact: Over the last decade, GE Medical has outsourced a LOT of tech people. Many were made offers in Madison. GE Medical, and the Milwaukee area in general, typically buy these people back essentially at a significant markup when they acquire the startups. Think Lunar.
You can e-mail me if you want to know more about this city. iratsu at gmail dot com
Great climate, natural beauty, five big engineering colleges, low pollution, low living cost ($300/month=great life), many libraries, awesome eateries etc.
Housing is very cheap here; it's one of the few housing markets in the country with the peculiar property that a monthly mortgage payment would be less than rent on an equivalent house. I wouldn't recommend raising a family in Oakland, which is turning into a student ghetto all over, but Squirrel Hill's a good neighborhood.
There's a whole lot of topography and global warming has made our winters a little better.
Major cons: cold winters (it hit the single digits recently), shitty road surfaces
The bay area, unless you're rich, seems to be more about "get in, make money, get out". We're a bit weary of moving, and would like to stay somewhere for a little while.
Champaign seems pretty close to what you're looking for, but it's definitely too flat. That's why I'm leaving.
Columbus has Ohio State right there, and is as booming as you're going to find in Ohio. It's a beautiful city for the size and there's a sizable tech industry there. It's a place I wouldn't hesitate to live, but I have yet to do my time in the bay area and look forward to trying that for a few years.
Though I maybe I am missing what jmtulloss is trying to get to here... There is a sizeable tech industry, but from my experience, you have one of three options - work for a financial (bank/insurance) firm, work for the state, or work consulting. Not too many startups in Columbus.. either that, or I am ill-informed [I hope I am ill-informed :D]
I lived in Columbus. Your opinion is invalid.
Topography: absolutely flat
Size: Columbus is a sprawling stain of concrete blight of about a million people.
College: If you obsessively love football and Natti Light, OK.
Tech Industry: name one. A small, dying satellite office of a huge multinational doesn't count. Neither does insurance or fast food.
Beautiful: Short North area is OK, but nothing special unless you compare it Toledo or Dayton
And I do obsessively love football :)
Truth be told, I think my idea of 'topography' is different than a lot of people's. This is topography:
http://www.welton.it/photos/innsbruck/innsbruck_panorama.htm...
While I'm fine with places not quite that dramatic - Padova only has some low-lying hills (5-600 M) nearby - I'd go crazy without some nice places to go biking/hiking.
I'm digging Seattle quite a bit... It's a big soggy in the winter but downright glorious in the summer. Winters aren't much wetter than the Bay Area, near as I can tell. Great access to outdoorsy stuff and a fairly lively startup community. Skiing 45 minutes east. Dry wine country 2 hours east. If you want to live in the sticks, there are some cool towns that people commute from on ferries. How cool is that?
Austin is cool. Decidedly un-Texan and charming.
The only "Universities" are 2 community colleges: College of the Canyons, and Cal Arts. College of the Canyons is decent though, with about 20,000 students per semester and growing. Under an hour drive to UCLA and USC without traffic, and there's Cal State Northridge too (my school).
Another notable feature, Six Flags, Magic Mountain is here.
And as an added bonus, we are in a valley (surrounded on all sides), and it just snowed on the mountains. It looks beautiful.
I actually have to say that Innsbruck isn't such a terrible place, but it's a bit too small and doesn't seem to have much of a tech scene. The area is gorgeous though:
http://www.welton.it/photos/innsbruck/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coimbra
However, the economy in Portugal is so-so ... it's gotten better, but at times seems like a 3rd world country in Western Europe. Surprisingly high prices given the low salaries there.