Google is the definition of a typical "big faceless company" and this is exactly how they act. Their current motto of "do the right thing" is down right hypocrisy.
Since you're smart enough to have worked for Google, I think lots of big and small companies would be willing to hire you. It's a shame you made a mistake, but learn from the mistake, and then focus on your very bright future. You've achieved great things, and I think you'll continue to be successful in life.
yes, what ytNumbers said.
If you can get hired at google, it's likely many other tech shops would be interested in you as well.
Choose to move your life forward. Do not sit and sulk in this: read it as validation that you have the chops to do amazing things.
No doubt you will replay this scene in your head a million times, that is just part of how many of us analyze our past decisions in order to make better ones.
Then you are just compounding your mistake by lying to future employers about your work history.
You are not serving yourself well as you seem to have a strange relationship with the truth.
If what you say is true that you made an honest mistake and you have a good reference from your direct supervisor it would be ill-advised not to be truthful.
I suggest putting Google on your resume, too. Being Google-y is a highly desirable line item on a resums. If you really have to, just explain what happened. Maybe even show the hiring manager this thread on HN. There is a reasonable chance the next employer won't even bother checking your references.
Sounds like your boss would still make a good reference for future employees to call. "Oh, throw-away-goog? Yeah he consulted with us for a short while. It's a shame he's looking to go full time, we're sorry to lose his services!"
Why not put Google on your resume and try applying for five or 10 jobs to see how it goes? I bet that having Google there will be a very positive thing, and that many people would understand the situation.
If someone came to me with that story, the vetting by Google would heavily outweigh the story.
I bet it has to do with liability and someone is covering their ass. If they did proper background check on you then you probably signed some papers saying that what you said is true to the court of law etc etc etc and if they let it slide now and they find out something else about you later, person who let it slide will get in trouble and obviously for them it's safer to just fire you.
You were fired for not understanding the background check form and making a 'mistake' that is functionally indistinguishable from a commonly-attempted lie. Based on the title, you appear not to understand this. Anyone attempting to hire you who gets this kind of convoluted "because I didn't have a degree - well, yea, they have employees without degrees, I mean it's because I said I have a degree, and I almost do, but that was an accident, it was just checking a box on the form" story would probably be very skeptical - you would get further by saying straight up that you made a mistake on the background check form and they have a zero tolerance policy for this. Your current story makes you sound foolish.
Ok, I updated the title. But I really made a mistake. My educational background had little to do with hiring decision. Because you said it, many people work in Google without a degree. I said it in the story too. Google wouldn't have an issue if I was consistent.
It sounds like an unjust situation and I can understand being disappointed at what happened, but honestly I'd call it a win. You now have Google on your resume so you're setup for a much easier job search in the future.
You really haven't lost a lot: Google is now a typical big company with a lot of political stupidity that you have to navigate. You've just seen it for yourself: if HR is making decisions rather than engineers, then the environment isn't so good.
You'll have better quality of life, more of an impact, and more focus on coding at a smaller company.
I would actually strongly recommend that he not list google on his resume. Unless Google has a policy against sharing whether a candidate was fired or left on good terms, it might not be beneficial for him to have potential employers calling Google for prior employment verification.
Also, for a throwaway account, you're pretty active here on HN :).
There is nothing to fight, op falsified information on a background check form which is grounds for dismissal. Sad and unfortunate but I don't see how fighting this will help.
If you're good enough for Google, you're good enough for a lot of jobs. You should think about what makes you happy, aside from having a recognizable name on your resume, and then start pursuing roles where you can work on something you care about. I strongly suspect that you'll get hired! :) If you have side projects that you can post on Github, those will go a long way to convincing potential employers of your skills. And after all, those skills are much more important, and more rare, than most certificates. Best of luck.
I think that companies have to make a case for supporting a visa because of not being able to hire someone similarly qualified who is a citizen or permanent resident. And having a formal degree may be part of that equation.
Getup and dust yourself off. Wtf. You are smart and made it this far. Google is not the end of the world. So what? You made a mistake. The best of us get to low point at times. Fuck'em. It's their lost, not yours. Get yourself together and move the heck on. Always think better of yourself. You can make a difference in other places than Google.
Don't look at this as having lost something, you worked for Google. There are thousands upon thousands of people that would love to do what you've done, albeit for a short period.
Pick yourself up, find a new place and keep kicking ass. It sounds like that's exactly what you've already been doing, so just keep doing it.
Google hired you based on the information you provided to them. If you properly listed that you did not graduate, they they may not have hired you.
Part of your story you mention that you only made it half way through your last semester. Later in your story you mention you completed all your classes (aka the full year) but just didn't complete all the paperwork. That is two very different statements. You either stayed the entire last semester, and passed all your classes and requirements and simply did not file necessary paperwork, or you dropped out mid year as many do and did not graduate. Graduating shows to an employer that you are able to follow through with something from start to finish. So by coming close by not completing shows something different to your employer. Many of us never completed college and turned out great, but the employer is hiring based on what you provide. Whether you lied on purpose or mistakenly, they are fully in their right to fire you.
There are many other companies out there and hopefully you will have now learned to ask questions when in doubt on your application form. And I'm sure you will land another great job. However, based on your own admission, you should certainly seek a medical professional about your mental issues before going back to a hire pressured job situation.
Google is really not a great company at this point. There is absolutely nothing special about Google that you should worry about missing out on. You will truly be happier elsewhere. Once you have a new job, everything will be fine again.
I wouldn't put much weight on what HR thinks. From my (limited) experience with big companies, they play a role not unlike robots - they're there to check if you've met a certain set of criteria, without considering the broader context i.e. how good you actually are at doing your job.
Your boss wanted to keep you. That says everything necessary about your suitability for the job. HR departments can sometimes cause companies to lose good people due to ineptness or mindless adherence to policies. It's Google's loss.
You made a mistake with the form - but everyone makes mistakes sometimes. Don't be so hard on yourself. As many others have said here, you've got great skills and can now list Google on your resume (and can ask your boss for a reference); you'll be able to find a good job elsewhere soon enough.
You still don't understand the issue. This is not about your technical skills, it is about your integrity. Integrity is considered extremely important in American society. Claiming to have a degree that you do not have is a serious lie, and calls your integrity into question. In American eyes, if you lied about that, you could lie or act unethically in many other circumstances. For a company like Google, that is a big risk, since they probably have a lot of secret information and access privileges that their employees are entrusted with.
Now, I am not saying that they are right about you. It is likely that your home culture is less strict about these matters than American culture, and while you would lie about the degree, you would not lie or act unethically in any circumstances that would actually concern the company. But how do you prove it to them? Your interview performance and job history do not prove it - they have to do with technical skill, not with ethics. You have only been at your job for a couple of weeks, so your boss and coworkers cannot vouch for your personal character.
I know you feel really disappointed right now. It sucks that this happened, and I know that it seems absurd to you. But you are going to rebound quickly and find other opportunities. What's important is that you learn something from the experience.
Your sensitivity about cultural value of integrity is right on.
I noticed some foreign engineering students (Qatar if it matters) cheating on an exam at school in the US and asked them about it. They thought we were fools for not doing everything we could to get ahead, seizing every opportunity.
Personally, I'd rather work with people I can trust to act in the group's interest. Is that not the same everywhere?
I know and I'm not mad at Google honestly. I'm mad at myself for my sloppiness. It wasn't even like I was trying to cheat. I thought having enough units is equal to having a degree. I had enough units to get an "equal to B.S. degree".
I just didn't care enough to be very precise with my information.
What you did was a big mistake but getting fired from Google is not the end of the world. Heck, you could've quit after a while anyway.
In fact, depending on the product you've been working on Google and your seniority, there are many more fulfilling (both technically and socially) jobs out there.
What you need to do now: Start interviewing with companies. I wouldn't suggest mentioning Google, since you were capable of getting into Google, you can get into most other places without the credit of Google.
Depending on how much money you've saved, make a plan, put a deadline for yourself and start looking for a job. Go apply through job postings, email recruiters, CEOs, etc.
Update your resume, send out to 10 postings that look OK - You don't have to work with them if you get an offer, but it should give you enough momentum to get back on your feet.
Buck the fuck up, dude. Like nobody else in the world has been fired before. Seriously, it's the fiber of someone is made not by what they are, but what they do when adverse conditions occur to them. You have a wife (and kids?) to support, provide for, and be capable of taking a situation like this and getting on with it. This world is unforgiving. Google is not the only game in town and if you have talent, you will find another job. Also, finish your degree so you so you can at least show you've moved past this part of your life with conviction. Make things whole, not rip them apart.
I don't know if we have all the details here. If you removed Google from your resume is the rest still good enough to find another job - or is the whole thing just kind of - meh? And do you have any stuff up on Github?
I feel like your post might be a case where most people here can't relate to your situation because of their privileged background (no offense HN) - on the other hand maybe I'm just over-thinking it and you're really just depressed. In any case - a lot of bad stuff happens at big companies like this and you're really not alone in losing your job over something trivial. People have even lost their jobs before over social blunders on Twitter so at least your career isn't ruined.
Look ... here's the thing. No job is worth killing yourself over. I don't know your family, but I can assume if you're close enough to send them shirts, they probably care enough about you to want you in this world. Learn from what happened, and carry on. My contact info is in my profile. Feel free to reach-out if you'd like to email or talk about this sometime.
In some developing countries credentials fraud is rampant. That means employers in the US will cut you no slack for errors, simply because errors are far less common than lies.
45 comments
[ 4.5 ms ] story [ 104 ms ] threadChoose to move your life forward. Do not sit and sulk in this: read it as validation that you have the chops to do amazing things.
No doubt you will replay this scene in your head a million times, that is just part of how many of us analyze our past decisions in order to make better ones.
You are not serving yourself well as you seem to have a strange relationship with the truth.
If what you say is true that you made an honest mistake and you have a good reference from your direct supervisor it would be ill-advised not to be truthful.
If asked by the potential employer, just explain the situation.
Take it easy. Don't damage yourself to the degree when your future productivity is affected.
If someone came to me with that story, the vetting by Google would heavily outweigh the story.
You really haven't lost a lot: Google is now a typical big company with a lot of political stupidity that you have to navigate. You've just seen it for yourself: if HR is making decisions rather than engineers, then the environment isn't so good.
You'll have better quality of life, more of an impact, and more focus on coding at a smaller company.
Also, for a throwaway account, you're pretty active here on HN :).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_Immigrant_Visa
Pick yourself up, find a new place and keep kicking ass. It sounds like that's exactly what you've already been doing, so just keep doing it.
Part of your story you mention that you only made it half way through your last semester. Later in your story you mention you completed all your classes (aka the full year) but just didn't complete all the paperwork. That is two very different statements. You either stayed the entire last semester, and passed all your classes and requirements and simply did not file necessary paperwork, or you dropped out mid year as many do and did not graduate. Graduating shows to an employer that you are able to follow through with something from start to finish. So by coming close by not completing shows something different to your employer. Many of us never completed college and turned out great, but the employer is hiring based on what you provide. Whether you lied on purpose or mistakenly, they are fully in their right to fire you.
There are many other companies out there and hopefully you will have now learned to ask questions when in doubt on your application form. And I'm sure you will land another great job. However, based on your own admission, you should certainly seek a medical professional about your mental issues before going back to a hire pressured job situation.
When you're going through hell, keep going.
Your boss wanted to keep you. That says everything necessary about your suitability for the job. HR departments can sometimes cause companies to lose good people due to ineptness or mindless adherence to policies. It's Google's loss.
You made a mistake with the form - but everyone makes mistakes sometimes. Don't be so hard on yourself. As many others have said here, you've got great skills and can now list Google on your resume (and can ask your boss for a reference); you'll be able to find a good job elsewhere soon enough.
Now, I am not saying that they are right about you. It is likely that your home culture is less strict about these matters than American culture, and while you would lie about the degree, you would not lie or act unethically in any circumstances that would actually concern the company. But how do you prove it to them? Your interview performance and job history do not prove it - they have to do with technical skill, not with ethics. You have only been at your job for a couple of weeks, so your boss and coworkers cannot vouch for your personal character.
I know you feel really disappointed right now. It sucks that this happened, and I know that it seems absurd to you. But you are going to rebound quickly and find other opportunities. What's important is that you learn something from the experience.
I noticed some foreign engineering students (Qatar if it matters) cheating on an exam at school in the US and asked them about it. They thought we were fools for not doing everything we could to get ahead, seizing every opportunity.
Personally, I'd rather work with people I can trust to act in the group's interest. Is that not the same everywhere?
I just didn't care enough to be very precise with my information.
In fact, depending on the product you've been working on Google and your seniority, there are many more fulfilling (both technically and socially) jobs out there.
What you need to do now: Start interviewing with companies. I wouldn't suggest mentioning Google, since you were capable of getting into Google, you can get into most other places without the credit of Google.
Depending on how much money you've saved, make a plan, put a deadline for yourself and start looking for a job. Go apply through job postings, email recruiters, CEOs, etc.
Update your resume, send out to 10 postings that look OK - You don't have to work with them if you get an offer, but it should give you enough momentum to get back on your feet.
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I feel like your post might be a case where most people here can't relate to your situation because of their privileged background (no offense HN) - on the other hand maybe I'm just over-thinking it and you're really just depressed. In any case - a lot of bad stuff happens at big companies like this and you're really not alone in losing your job over something trivial. People have even lost their jobs before over social blunders on Twitter so at least your career isn't ruined.