I don't live quite like this, but I feel similarly about gifts: I far prefer them to be practical rather than decorative or frivolous.
I've realised that people can get slightly upset when I explain it to them. They want to buy me something fun, something I'll "enjoy". Chances are I won't, although I do of course appreciate the sentiment.
Equally, I find it more satisfying to buy a "useful" gift for others. And of course people don't always appreciate this, and some prefer a trinket instead of a practical item.
There's emotional context imbued in the act of giving, and some people embed that in the object itself.
So I'm learning to allow people to express their feelings toward me by letting them buy me whatever they want, although I will still hint at my preference if given a choice.
This can lead to clutter, which I hate, but I've realised some people love. I don't know the solution to this yet, but I suspect it's a combination of out-of-site storage and in-view display cabinet type arrangements. I have disposed of truly unwanted gifts, but I realise that's potentially hurtful so I don't enjoy doing it.
While I like the ideea of this lifestyle, I can't do it. I simply love my tools too much. And I have a lot of them. And lopts of parts. At a first look, some might looks superfulous, for example, I have this wierd star-shaped screwdriver. Most of the time, I don't use it, but boy, when I use it, does it save me a lot of time.
Nothing wrong with that, I'm fairly minimal in the stuff I own but I have a tonne of cycling stuff (all of which is used, UK climate means you have to change up gear a lot) and tools since it's just not practical to buy those when I need them.
I want to live like this too, but I need tools. I need automotive tools. I can't afford mechanics bills, nor trust the workmanship. I need tools to repair watches--which turned into a side business. Plus I have home contractor tools. It's the tools that has me waited down.
I have a library I can thin down, but it's hard. It's 99 percent refrence. And the first editions--well I like them more than some people. I wouldn't have ever started the library, but didn't think books would be so digitally available.
I have a couple of vaccumes I could get rid of, but who would cut my hair? Flobee--and they do work, if you have a little bit of coordination. I hated going to the hair salon.
That said--if I had to go leave real quick, I would take all my watches, and jeweler's tools. I could fit everything in three legal sized boxes. I would take another three legal sized boxes of books. I would leave my tool chest, and put all tools in six legal sized boxes.
I might need to move quick in the future. I'm not sure where I will go. I won't pay Bay Area rents again. I go out at night, and the people I would interact with moved away. The Bay Area is just not that fun anymore. Never thought I would say that, but then again couldn't imagine living in the Midwest.
I am greatful I never had a kid. Never thought I would say that. I like them, but I never thought life in America would be this ruthless.
I gave away my inheritance, from a pretty brutal father. At the time, I didn't think I would ever need it, nor wanted anything from the man. I gave it all to a family member. I should have kept some of it. It was a lot too.
On the positive side, when I'm dying, I won't need to make to many amends. I haven't screwed over anyone--I can recall. My exes don't want to keep in touch. One told me, "You can be really hurtful. You have hurt my feelings more than any other person." She's now seeing women. I knew I was kinda a handful, but I didn't intentionally want to hurt her feelings. I just couldn't continually agree.
I thought I was reading an excerpt from some cult book of some kind. I think it's the honesty that resonates for me. Thanks for sharing, marincounty, and keep it coming.
Edit - just realised mc has been behind many of the most interesting comments I've read over the last few months. Might not agree with it all, but enjoy reading them!
Refrigerator door culture. At some point in life you will no longer be permitted not to have magnets on your fridge. I made it until I got married.
Weaponized clothes are a thing too. Everyone knows nobody likes getting someone elses choice of clothes as a gift, especially not kids, but it is a socially acceptable weapon to kinda "get" the recipient. More a slap to the face than a punch to the face, but none the less kinda an aggressive act.
Hah, same here. We made it until friends started having children. I think there's still a refrigerator door somewhere underneath all the cute pictures.
I don't know, I've gotten lots of clothes I liked. I don't much enjoy going clothes shopping, so I appreciate other people putting in the effort as long as their impression of the things I'd wear is reasonably accurate.
My father hated fridge magnets and resisted for years. Then he remarried, and it started happening, slowly. One year, he bought a very nice refrigerator for xmas. It's completely non-magnetic. I couldn't help but ask, and yes.. it was intentional.
I've come to prefer giving (often cheap) gifts that are intended to be disposed of, but lead to a bit of fun.
Quick example: I got my family (parents, sister, cousins, etc; no kids right now) a bunch of santa hats from the doller store for christmas that were each a little different and one was technically a chair cover (but looked like an incredibly oversized hat). Then I let them duke it out over who got which hat. Also shutter shades.
They still talk about that Christmas. Experiences are something worthwhile.
Does anyone use Amazon wish lists to solve this sort of issue? Do they even exist? Asking both out of interest of this thread's topic, and because some time back I consulted to a dot com startup where the product was to be a gift related site. Startup was executed very poorly so I left (and it shut down soon after). But the idea may have had merit.
My family all has Amazon wish lists for exactly this issue, in fact. Before Amazon was popular, we all posted wish lists on a closet door in my grandmother's house, and we either went in the den to look at them or called her and asked her what was on the lists.
My girlfriend's family doesn't do any of this stuff, and so I've had to do "educated guess"-type gifting, which I'm usually somewhat decent at. They tend to get me clothes, which is fine, everyone's gotta wear clothes.
I do. I've trained nearly everyone in my life to accept that I'm happy receiving nothing for my birthday and Christmas, but my dad refuses to get on board. I always have a list of stuff saved in my Amazon cart that I want eventually, but not enough to buy it right now. So every time a holiday rolls around and he wants to buy me something, I just chuck all of that stuff into a wish list and send it to him.
Can get creative with different denominations and presentations. For example, my in laws will give a jar of Nutella as a Christmas gift, with some bills taped to the bottom. Always a little bit of surprise as to where the cash will be. Kids especially love this!
One Christmas, had the grand kids sing a silly song in order to get a dollar or two.
Lots of ways to turn giving cash from an impersonal gift, into something fun and creative!
I assume you've tried to explain that you enjoy practical things? How 20 years from now you will pull out the old battered screwdriver they gave you (assuming it was a good screwdriver), put together some furniture, and think of them?
One of the best gifts I ever got was a Craftsman hand tool set from my father.
(Caveat, of course, is I was a raging petrol-head and kept swiping his tools, so he knew I would use it)
I'm somewhat similar to this except furnished flats are rare where I live so I have some furniture.
That said my bedroom has a bed and a side table, my living room a sofa, computer desk and TV.
Spare bedroom has my road bike and my cycling gear (as a hobby it's unavoidable).
I have a (somewhat) strict 1 closet policy for clothing, once I fill it for each item in something has to go (easy this year as I dropped nearly 70lbs, virtually nothing I had fits).
I could pack and move my entire possessions in a day and with the exception of my computer gear/bike stuff replace everything for under a 1000 quid.
I can't even claim any asceticism or anything for this, I just don't buy stuff I don't need and get rid of stuff I don't use because if I don't use it why have to clean around it.
Dropped the first 60 in 4 months, that didn't feel great, 1500 calories a day for 4 months got old really fast but yeah physically I feel better than I have in a long time.
Also according to NHS guidelines as of a few weeks ago I'm no longer even overweight I'm in the healthy range (not that I entirely trust their crude BMI stuff) which is a nice place to be.
Nice. Did you just do it with strict calorie watching or some other diet? My friend lost his 100lbs in about 5-6 months on Keto, I've used it to lose 50lbs quickly myself, I think it makes the lower calorie count hard to notice... In his case he avoided the clothing problem by wearing all his old clothes he's had in storage boxes for years since they no longer fit.
Straight calorie counting, had a fancy spreadsheet I logged everything I ate with calorie counts, it predicted weekly and monthly weight loss plus expected goal weight date etc (I was out by a week, I hit target early as was averaging 1430 a day not 1500).
The prediction based on 3500 calories equally 1lb of weight loss was remarkably accurate for me.
I also took supplements since 1500 a day is considered very borderline for a man and I'm quite big naturally.
Supplemented with cod liver oil, multivitamin, vitamin D and calcium and used dissolvable fibre drinks (one side effect of not eating a lot is unfortunate).
Breakfast was porridge (plain oats, no salt, sugar or honey), lunch was no fat cottage cheese with salad, tea was either pork, chicken or fish with steamed veggies.
Occasionally I'd eat McDonalds if the the junk craving was too strong (because it has accurate calorie counts).
Drank a lot of water as well, probably 5-6 pints a day plus coffee and diet energy drinks for pick me ups.
It was actually pretty easy once I got past the first week.
The hard part since has been eating clean and still getting 2500 calories, it's amazing when you cut out sugar and really high fat stuff how much you have to eat to get 2500 calories, its the equiv of 2.5kg of regular cottage cheese!.
Blood pressure went down, insulin response is normal and I feel better generally than I have done in ten years despite my ongoing medical problems, you truly are what you eat.
Every time I have a birthday I am terribly worried about receiving some gift that I won't like from people who don't know me good enough but want to give me some present. Receiving a gift that I don't like and having to avoid showing that I don't really like it is worse than receiving nothing. In fact I have enough money to buy anything I want myself, so there is really nothing I would like to receive as a gift.
So my point was that unless you know everything about life and the universe you might not know what your preferences are (and preferences change) ;)
And not all gifts are material.
But sure, there's nothing wrong in not wanting anything from someone else if that is your thing.
I get the impression going through this gift that people don't actually know how to give gifts. I LOVE giving gifts. No, I don't go through someone's Amazon wish-list or buy them something they could buy themselves. I usually make people things, and it usually takes 2-6 months of work. I might spend a month on an embroidered pocket square, or a handmade notebook, or a handmade piece of jewelry or carving, or an elaborate 6-course meal and paired wines.
If I can't dedicate at LEAST few weeks to constructing the perfect gift/experience for someone, I won't give anything at all. Better nothing than a bad gift...
I get the impression going through this gift that people don't actually know how to give gifts. I LOVE giving gifts. No, I don't go through someone's Amazon wish-list or buy them something they could buy themselves. I usually make people things, and it usually takes 2-6 months of work. I might spend a month on an embroidered pocket square, or a handmade notebook, or a handmade piece of jewelry or carving, or an elaborate 6-course meal and paired wines.
If I can't dedicate at LEAST few weeks to constructing the perfect gift/experience for someone, I won't give anything at all. Better nothing than a bad gift...
Of course it is possible than someone would give me something really nice, it happens with some of my closest friends and relatives. But in the case of strangers or people I know for 1 or 2 years only the chance of a bad surprise and its consequences, such as having to pretend I like gift and worrying about questions about it some time later, outweigh. The risk is just too high.
Are there any things you like that are temporary and experiential? For instance, I really like things like coffee, wine, movies, weekend ski trips, nice restaurants, etc. All of these things can be given as gifts, and better yet some of them can be enjoyed with the gift-giver (and spending quality time together is the best gift, really), but don't take up any space. I've had some success over time making it known that I really prefer these sorts of gifts.
Or just nice pairs of wool socks – I wear out about 5 pairs a year, which is about the right number to receive as gifts. But people might not believe you that you love getting socks :)
So my in-laws violate my "I don't want anything" desire.
EVERY Christmas they but me a new pajama set (or two). Thing is I sleep in my boxers so I have a drawer full of rarely/barely worn pajamas. (I just realized... I'm going to be donating them now and from now on unused to the Salvation Army).
Don't get me wrong, I think socks are a great gift... they wear out and fresh soft fuzzy socks rock!
My mother in-law sends me socks once or twice a year and it's the best gift as otherwise I'll wear socks until they aren't even one piece anymore. Socks and good beer are the only gifts I normally enjoy receiving.
Anything else I'll buy for myself. I'm perfectly happy to not receive gifts.
Giving and receiving the consumable gifts is the best I think, and I'd rather give/receive cash than gift cards as the extreme version of that. I generally wouldn't consider clothing a consumable item though -- I wear socks until they have holes in them, so it surprises me that you wear out 5 pairs a year. I was successful in a "no clothes" policy for several years, but apparently I need to renew it since over the last few for my birthday and Christmas I've gotten several wool socks from more than one party that I really don't like... They don't fit my feet well (they're "appropriately sized", but don't fit well for the same reasons Nike shoes of my size don't fit well), I wear them as a last resort if I somehow run out of my clean regular white cottons that last forever. The wool ones are the first to go in the donation heap...
I suspect we live in different places. I live in Colorado, where it makes sense to wear wool socks a lot of the time, and I wear them out from walking and hiking a lot. Obviously it's a personal thing and I mostly included it as a joke :)
I feel much the same as you, but I recently started receiving gifts from a newly important person in my life. Some of the gifts were not things I would get for myself and weren't even on my radar. But upon receiving them and taking the time to consider the gift and try it, I have learned that gift giving can include the possibility of expanding my tastes by exposing me to things I would otherwise pass over.
Reading through the linked blog entry, at first I got the impression that he just likes a minimal life. But then I started to get the impression he just doesn't want to make the effort to maintain relationships with other humans.
They study or work with me. Some places even have lists of birthdays and all sorts of "teambuilding". Each place has its own traditions, so making your birthday an exception to default policy may require some effort.
We also have Facebook and similar social networks now, though I don't use them. All kinds of social networks reminded people about birthdays ever since the era of PHP forums.
everytime I see a book I'd like to have, I just add it to my amazon wishlist and when my bday comes around and I haven't gotten it yet myself, people will get me that. This is really, really easy.
I can very much relate to this; my motto is "you don't own stuff; the stuff owns you". And every time I've moved, I was amazed at just how much stuff one (even unwillingly) accumulates, and how liberating it feels to get rid of it.
I also prefer to own just a few high quality and/or useful things over having a 'ton of crap'.
I've recently started building an actual database of my physical inventory, and have already found multiple items which I needlessly own twice because when I bought the second one, I didn't realize I had one already.
One time I took square photos of all my things and put them in CouchDB with just a label. It was pretty fun to see an alphabetical list of photos of nearly everything I owned. Like an RPG inventory.
This is an amazing idea. First thing that comes to mind is a process to automate labeling like with google images. Is there anything open source that fits this?
That would be pretty neat, but I just spent like fifteen minutes going through the photos and typing a word for each one... toothbrush, Zippo, shoes, plectrum, document... kind of fun, actually!
That seems like it would take longer than just manually labeling the things to begin with, especially with edge cases (what happens when there are 2 items in the picture? how do you handle mislabeling?).
It's much easier than that. Just a text file that I keep in a git repo (so I can sync it between systems).
First, I assign string IDs to storage locations following a simple hierarchical pattern. For example, `H` might be the hallway. `Hc` might be the cupboard on the hallway. `Hc3` might be the third drawer in that cupboard, and so on.
Now if I put my old external harddrive into that drawer, I write into the inventory text file: "Hc3 external harddrive". It's the storage location, followed by the asset name. If the thing might have many names, I just chain all of them together.
Now all the queries come down to simple grepping, for example:
- "grep '^H' inventory" gives me all the items I have stored in the hallway.
- "grep Windows inventory" shows me where I put that old Windows 7 DVD.
My system also includes optional "intents" to be appended to the storage location. There's "#s" (sale), "#o" (offer = give away for free), "#g" (garbage), and "#e" (evict = move to a less accessible storage location if space is needed).
So I can just show the output of "grep '#o' inventory" to my friends, and they can see at a glance what stuff I have to give away.
> It makes me really happy when another Christmas or birthday has passed and I didn’t receive anything. It makes me feel understood.
My sister and I have this arrangement. I tell her every Christmas that her gift (nothing) is the best one, because I don't have to figure out where to store more junk until enough time has passed that I don't feel guilty throwing it away. She's even more of a clean freak than I am — I believe she actually gets a thrill out of throwing stuff away.
If I want some object, I will buy that object myself. I don't want someone's semi-educated guess (that's most likely wrong) cluttering up my apartment. What I find particularly strange is that people consistently give me things that I explicitly tell them I don't want — they buy me stuff that they want for Christmas or that they think I "need".
The only gifts I like are the ones that have strong sentimental value — something that shows a lot of thought went into it — perhaps a handmade photo book or a good meal. For me, an object will never be as valuable as quality time spent with family.
> If I want some object, I will buy that object myself.
I can so relate. "What can I get you for birthday?" - "Nothing, mum. I got all I need." - "How about we go buy some new shoes for you?" - "sigh I already have a pair of shoes." :)
Between my wife and I, the policy has been to go out and spend time together instead of buying gifts. I don't try to push this onto others but it does work with most of my close friends as well.
It works inside family or with girlfriends, but only as long as everybody agrees to go somewhere. As with normal gifts, presenting tickets as a surprise is not a good idea.
By "go out" I didn't mean something that requires tickets. It could be dinner, or a short getaway. In very few cases I've given gift cards to amazon or a local mall. It's a little more personal than cash but I still get to leave things open-ended.
It also works great with kids once they reach a certain age. Two years ago we asked the grandparents to give experiences instead of toys. Archery lessons, horse camp and climbing lessons have been the biggest hits so far.
The other thing to remember is that it's about the feeling of giving as well as the person receiving, and the grandparents have said they feel like what they're doing is being appreciated more than just another toy or gadget.
About twenty years ago I had to move, and not many friends showed up to help. It was an incredible burden, and that day I said "enough" with the material possessions. Went to the dump, and now its just me, a backpack, and a small storage closet.
I own very few things and live with a roommate in a furnished apartment. I am minimal to a fault EXCEPT when it comes to books. I have dozens and dozens of them. I can't seem to be able to let them go.
Another option is to tell people specifically what you want ahead of time, or buy your own gifts in advance and give them to family members for them to give you during holidays
My family adopted the "no gifts" Christmas rule several years ago. Apparently, my siblings were stressing out financially each year buying gifts, but I found it did wonders for reducing my own holiday stress. Now we just get together, eat, talk, play games, and play with the kids. It's amazing in retrospect to see how small a part of the family get-together was gift-giving. We would exchange gifts, stack our new toys into piles, and forget about them until it was time to load up the cars to go home.
Gift-giving can become such a social minefield too. We had a birthday party for my oldest son and specifically requested no gifts (he has enough toys). One attendant missed it or ignored it and brought one anyway. We politely thanked them for the gift, and were immediately confronted by several other parents who became quite defensive and a little angry with us (seemingly embarrassed that they had not brought gifts). Some of them even came back after the party with gifts to somehow make amends in their minds. There's a lot of social stuff I don't understand surrounding gift-giving.
I don't know if this is popular in the USA. We also have a "no gifts" rule. Instead we do a secret santa. We do a real gift and an optional gag gift. It works wonderfully.
Except this year somebody sent lots of gifts for two of my nephews. It was ridiculous and very uncomfortable for the rest of the family to watch.
I like getting birthday presents that are doing something. Usually my wife takes me on a vacation, or to see a show I really like, etc. It's much better than some object IMO.
This is what we do too, but to be fair its only because at our wealth level we can pretty much buy everything we want, within reason. Its different for poorer people. Getting a 42" TV when you can't afford one yourself is a wonderful feeling. I hate this idea that now that everything is mass produced and relatively "cheap" we suddenly see ourselves as above it all because we make decent money. Err, not really.
The only real reason I decry gift giving on my birthday is because I have so much shit I'm temporarily satisfied, not because I'm above having shit. If I couldn't afford some of those things and someone got one of them for me I'd be overjoyed.
Its also weird to hear that people think its minimalist to own a smartphone and laptop. Those devices do so many things, they're the equivalent of hundreds of gadgets. Or how "I don't own a TV" is the clarion call of the intellectual hipster but he spends his days shitposting on the internet, binging netflix, subscribing to hundreds of youtube channels, etc.
Well, I would prefer that they use that money to help address third world problems. In lieu of gifts on Valentine's day, my girlfriend and I each donated money to Watsi.
I find it bizarre that quite a few people seem to think that gifts must be things. What's wrong with buying someone an experience for their birthday? A dinner out, a massage voucher, a skydiving session... my friend has given me an Escape Room challenge for my just-passed birthday.
A wonderful quip I picked up from a teacher couple might help on invites: "Presence Not Presents". The absence of "no" makes it easier to accept socially, I suspect.
Not wanting "stuff" is a gamble that your present and future is secure and safe.
Having been homeless at one point, I've become a bit of a hoarder, because you never know when things will go south and you are one month away from being homeless (again).
Also we'll see how often you keep erasing things and starting from scratch as you get older and find that remembering things is a lot harder and takes a lot longer to rebuild.
More float time before becoming homeless. You already have the toiletries and food staples for the next 3 months, so you can focus money towards that rent payment and job interviews. Not sure what "stuff" the parent was referring too though..
> Having been homeless at one point, I've become a bit of a hoarder, because you never know when things will go south and you are one month away from being homeless (again).
It goes both ways, though, doesn't it? Now you need to find a larger apartment to keep around your dining table, toilet paper collection, books. Was that worth keeping them around? Some things yes, other things no.
I take the opposite conclusion. If god forbid things do go south and you become homeless, it's much worse having to figure out what to do with a lot of stuff, than if you have minimal stuff to begin with. There was recently a story in the Austin subreddit about a guy who was evicted, and all of his furniture and other stuff was put out on the apartment complex lawn, to be quickly picked up and carted off by his neighbors...
That's an interesting perspective, as Derek's future is quite secure. He had a large personal exit from his business CD Baby, and put all the money into a charitable trust[1] that will be given away when he dies, but in the meantime pays him a (very) good annual income out of the interest for the rest of his life.
I agree with both of you - this minimalistic getting rid of all your stuff is an affluent-person thing. That doesn't make it wrong, but it is an important piece of the background, I think.
This is part of why I wrote in my other comment that we should not conflate this minimalism stuff with some sort of higher virtue. It's just affluent people prioritizing a certain type of convenience over other types of convenience, because they can afford to.
Eh, it varies by location, but everywhere I've been, the cost of rent was dramatically higher than any sort of minimum stuff I might need... in fact, the primary reason for me to cut down on 'stuff' is to get rid of the expense of storing it.
I mean, personally, I like having 'stuff' - especially the sort of stuff I need at a moment's notice that I can't get amazon to overnight me, but if you live in a major metro, it's more of an expense than it is a cushion.
Of course, if I owned a big house with a garage, the equation would be somewhat different, but in areas where I want to live, that is somewhat unrealistic.
I looooove purging stuff from my life. I'm about to move again in a couple months and will sell, donate and throw away pretty much most of my current possessions.
It's a great freeing feeling, and I'm not one that gets sentimental over inanimate objects.
I allow myself a single medium size box of sentimental items. If the box should become full, I select some things to photograph and pass them on (though that seldom happens.) Everything else I own must be useful. That is not to say my home is spartan. Art, decor, etc are useful but they must be employed to that prupose. No stashing such things away for future use.
I used to do this, but then I started to really get into cooking, which makes you end up with a ton of stuff! Pots and pans, tools, utensils, appliances, etc.
Bowls bowls bowls and tiny bowls. I'm sure I could make do with much less in the kitchen but that wouldn't be very satisfying to the functional programmer in me.
This newsitem reminds me of times whan HN had that news about people traveling with just a backpack, 100-thing challenge and other minimalism-related news. I discovered http://zenhabits.net/ and /r/minimalism. The idea of selecting 1 or 2 Most Important Tasks for the next day really worked for me, for example.
Anyone care to share some good minimalism-related resources?
People have good criticisms about e-readers like the Kindle. It's not great for technical books. It can be a little laggy and not as sensory compared to paper books.
That said, the ability to retake space is soooooo worth it. My Kindle has dozens of books, magazines, and long form articles. Over the long term, I have saved volumes of physical space and pounds of weight.
While I miss the physical look of having rows of beautiful books decorate a place, I don't mind having more open space for my psyche and other activities (music).
I give away physical books I liked to friends, and those that I didn't like to Books for Amnesty. While you can email someone the .epub, it's not quite the same. A scribbled dedication will persist longer and be more evocative that an email too.
Technical books I tend to keep as ebooks on my desktop where I work anyway.
While I have friends who read, they admit they don't read as much as they used to. So giving books or even games to them often results in an expensive dust collector.
And while I admire the act of giving books away, either to BoA or one's local library, I like to go back to my book every once in a while to recall a specific section that resonated. E-readers allows me to save highlights in the cloud, where I can go back to find particular interesting tidbits and find the fuller section if need be. This is helpful complicated concepts that often require multiple reads over time to sink in.
Yes! Well-put! Thanks for bringing this up. I'm Kindle-only these days, and people ask if I miss books. I might, in theory, but you're right besides the convenience, it's the advantage of NOT having all that paper that is so worth it.
I feel so close to this guy; I can relate to him so much.
I don't think I've lived in a house for longer than two years in my entire life. I've lived in different cities, provinces, and even countries. I naturally keep the amount of "stuff" that I own down to an amount that can be packed up into one car/truck load. I love the sense of freedom that comes with being able to pick up and go somewhere else in a day.
I also share the thoughts on gifts. Christmas time a Birthdays I always tell people to not get me anything and I their gift to me is a good dinner and time spent with each-other. If they have to get me something then it's the essentials like clothing or consumables. I like having a small set of core, quality items such as my clothing, cameras, and laptop/phone. Everything else is temporary.
Come family time this will change, but for now I'm happy living simply.
I don't really enjoy getting presents all that much because I've attained a certain comfort in life. But, it doesn't seem to me that I had to consider much or stress a lot about where I could donate gifts or items I don't want. There's Baras Foundation, Goodwill, AmVets, shelters, schools, so so many people happily ready to receive anything you give them.
Ok, you don't want stuff, but spare me the stress you feel around your family/others not understanding you. Use your energy in a more friendly and giving way and maybe you'll find that it's a bonus to receive the chance to get out in your community, meet and share and give to those that could use a leg up.
I bet once you cycle back and tell your family and friends about the people and places and experiences you now have after donating things, they'll understand. Some will have a hard time with it, but I doubt for long.
I get a bonus item every 5 yrs at my company. Couple years ago received a 60" TV, took me all of a minute and one email to a local school in need and they drove over and picked it up.
I don't like having obligations thrust upon me without my consent. A gift is an obligation: I need to find a use for it, or at least find somewhere out of the way to keep it until I can get rid of it.
The way I read your comment, you're trying to replace one obligation with another (find somewhere to give it away). You're telling me that this absolves the first obligation ("they'll understand"), and that I'll enjoy the second one ("it's a bonus to..."). I'm skeptical of both of those things: you don't know me and you don't know my family and friends. But even if you're right, I don't want the second obligation.
If I want to get out in the community, I can do that without waiting for someone to give me a gift I don't want.
(As it happens, in my case, I often like the gift more than I dislike the obligation. Maintaining an amazon wishlist is helpful for this. But not everyone is the same, and "spare me" is an unkind reaction to them.)
- donate
- after talking to a friend you realize you have something you don't want you can give them
- talk to a neighbor and realize you can clear out space in a garage or house or shed by giving them something
- just throw something in an alley and someone comes by within the hour and happily loads it up in a truck for use or selling elsewhere
Sorry if you can't see the positive in the effort expended.
Yes, I should not assume much about you. I am optimistic that people don't feel WORSE during the act of giving.
That's not the point. If I want to do good, I can choose to do good. I don't want someone else choosing how I do good. If those things are positive, if I feel good about them, then I can do them, whether or not someone has given me a gift I don't want.
My "spare me" could really have been summarized as "1st world problems". Giving stuff away to needy trumps my own personal feelings of "obligated to do something with a gift given to me". Maybe I over-prioritize in my head about this kinda thing, but reading OP post about experiencing stress sounds kinda lame or just words from too young a person.
The last time before I moved, I took a bunch of perfectly good furniture and other stuff I didn't want anymore and put it on my street corner. Within a day, it was gone. There was low income housing nearby so maybe one of those people took it.
I fight against this all the time. It's simply impossible due to all the guilt involved.
I do not want anything for xmas/birthday. My wife always wants to get me something and makes me feel like a killjoy. This is perhaps manageable.
Bigger problem is I have 2 kids who get invited to parties. I have to take the birthday boy/girl something. Fine - but this means it's reciprocated.
Valentines day recently. Used to be for asking a new girl out - now you have to gift something to your wife of 20 years. I have successfully vanquished this one.
Coming over for dinner? They bring a (bad) bottle of wine that I now have to get rid of. On and on the waste goes.
Those thoughts sometimes lead me to conclusion that "gift" tradition is invented or supported by marketing. It sounds like conspiracy theory, but it is partially true: take for example valentines day that is exploited by advertisement industry each year. I wonder if that gift tradition would be nearly dead were it not for aggressive advertising.
Doesn't require conspiracy. It's in the best interests of retailers to peddle gift-giving, so they do. This peddling increases gift-giving, or the retailers would stop doing it. Therefore it's safe to assume that gift-giving rates would be lower if the retailers did not peddle it.
I understand most of your post and your desire to have less stuff. However, when you can't bring wine (a consumable, literally no long term space-occupation or anything else, probably gone that night, if not you can just dump it down the drain) to dinner... sheesh.
Let me flesh that out. It's the waste I don't like. I don't dislike the person for the sentiment. I don't enforce this nor do I criticize it should a guest bring some.
I basically just want someone to come to my place and enjoy themselves, they shouldn't have to bring me a gift: I invited them. If they do anyway I thank them but I wish they had not.
This is putting the cart before the horse. If I dump 4,000 kilos of butter outside your front door will you make enough sandwiches or should I not have done that?
I used to drink bad wine, then I realised I'm putting myself through displeasure for no real end.
These chain of thought leads to one of the most common startup ideas ever to cross VC desks - the ability to gift experiences online. (Interestingly, a Google search that I just ran for 'gift experiences' returned almost exclusively UK results. What would a US resident be searching for?)
> Coming over for dinner? They bring a (bad) bottle of wine that I now have to get rid of.
I'm not a drinker myself, but I always assumed that people brought wine to dinners with the intention of drinking them at that dinner. Shouldn't that take care of getting rid of it?
Expensive wine is not always good, cheap wine is not always bad. One of my favourite wines is a ten bucks a bottle; it's more expensive for me now because I need to order it by the case and ship it across the country to get it, but so it goes.
If somebody brings a bottle of wine to dinner, unless you specifically planned the meal to go with a specific bottle of wine (or if they specifically say that this bottle is meant to be opened at a certain time or for a certain occasion), open the bottle they brought. Otherwise, you're sending one of two messages:
1) I'm certain that this wine you brought as a gift is so bad, I don't even want to bother drinking it.
2) I'm certain that this wine you brought as a gift is so good, I don't want to share it with you at all.
Neither message is a good look. If it's bad wine, open it, share the bad experience, and joke about how horrible the wine is. You've all learned something. If it's good wine, open it, share the good experience, and marvel over how great the bottle is.
Damiani Dolce Bianco, a blended table white. It's an eminently drinkable white wine, pairs well with chicken, pasta, or dishes with a citrus element. Alternatively, it's light enough that you can simply drink it on its own over the course of an evening. Drink it chilled, and I highly recommend sharing with friends.
You'll have a lot of trouble finding it for sale unless you happen to live in the upstate NY area; they're a small winery in the Finger Lakes region. I visited them once when I was living in that area, and discovered later that their table white could be bought at my local Century Wine and Liquor for ten bucks. At the time, I was living with some friends and none of us were making very much money (we were all immediately post-college), and that bottle of wine was the backdrop to basically all of our social gatherings and group dinners. A couple years later, when I moved out to California, I sent the winery an email letting them know how much I had enjoyed drinking their wine with my friends, and how sad I was that I was no longer in an area where they had distribution. In response, they offered to sell me a case for ten percent off, and covered shipping as a wedding present for my upcoming wedding.
It's worth noting here that while I'm presenting this story as an example of how nice the winemakers are, it should be stressed that they are not unusual in this regard! If you live in an area that has vineyards and wineries, you should go visit and do tastings! You can probably find cheap wines that you like, you can build relationships with the people who make the wines, and you will enjoy the wine even more for it. It's boatloads of fun to bring a bottle of wine to dinner with friends and say "Now, I know the folks who make this, they're especially proud of this bottle. Let me know what you think!"
It can go either way. The host may or may not open--it's meant as a gift. For people who are really in to wine, they will have already chosen bottles that are paired with the food.
Exactly, I guess this guy doesn't get out much. It's not expected that you open it there and then. In fact on gifting wine I usually insist they save it and enjoy it later (assuming I've bought a good one). It's not for me.
With regards to the birthday gifts, we have friends that have their children choose a charity to support via donations.
An example would be the local humane society, and each birthday party attendee is asked to bring something that could be donated, such as leashes, bowls, or food. Then the birthday boy/girl gets to take all of the donations to the humane society.
It's a win/win. No additional clutter, and birthday boy/girl gets life experience with donation and community involvement.
I haven't celebrated christmas with gifts since about the age of 12 or so. My family forces a gift or two on me each year.. and each year I return it for cash and leave the money at their house. Sometimes they notice, other times they don't. In the end, we both win.
I stopped accepting / asking for gifts after I overheard them stressing about a credit card bill. It didn't make sense that they should stress so I could have something I didn't want or need.
I have a small soap company on the side. I started bringing soap as a hostess gift instead of wine. It felt weird at first, but I find that most people are grateful to have a useful gift over some two-bit beach wine.
Getting rid of stuff feels great, but I think we have a cultural thing where we equate it with some sort of higher virtue. That's a mistake, but sure, get rid of all your stuff. Like I said, feels great.
this is why when i give gifts, i give something edible, or consumable, like nice chocolate, wine, coffee, etc, usually something gourmet or something that the person wouldn't normally buy.
My number one wish/want/desire for my birthday (which happens to be today!) is no gifts. I prefer no one make a big deal either.
One year my parents didn't send me a card or anything. It was soooo sweet! They finally listened and respected my desire(s). Then I found out they actually forgot. Which was bittersweet because that's sad to many but awesome because they made my birthday a non issue.
Anyways, for my birthday... I want to celebrate my parents for giving me the greatest gift of all, life. I'm ordering flowers for them right now.
Edit: changed "a catch 22" to "bittersweet" and "mother" to "parents".
I very much appreciate the sentiment, particularly in todays marketing-saturated environment. However, I can say from personal experience that having a few nice or meaningful things can lead to some happiness, given the appropriate relationship with them.
This book has quite a bit of silliness in it (I found it charming, you may not) but it has been very good for my mental health:
I grew up with my parents getting us lots of gifts for Christmas and birthdays, but now I realize that I don't enjoy that. I much prefer that they don't send us lots of small gifts that I will have to find a 'spot' for in the house.
I understand how someone can choose to live a very minimalist life. I'm not there yet, but I'm working my way towards having less stuff.
In grad school I could fit everything I owned into my small pickup. Now that I am married w/ 3 kids, it would take a semi truck to move. I long for those simpler days. sigh.
331 comments
[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 263 ms ] threadI've realised that people can get slightly upset when I explain it to them. They want to buy me something fun, something I'll "enjoy". Chances are I won't, although I do of course appreciate the sentiment.
Equally, I find it more satisfying to buy a "useful" gift for others. And of course people don't always appreciate this, and some prefer a trinket instead of a practical item.
There's emotional context imbued in the act of giving, and some people embed that in the object itself.
So I'm learning to allow people to express their feelings toward me by letting them buy me whatever they want, although I will still hint at my preference if given a choice.
This can lead to clutter, which I hate, but I've realised some people love. I don't know the solution to this yet, but I suspect it's a combination of out-of-site storage and in-view display cabinet type arrangements. I have disposed of truly unwanted gifts, but I realise that's potentially hurtful so I don't enjoy doing it.
I understand.
I have a library I can thin down, but it's hard. It's 99 percent refrence. And the first editions--well I like them more than some people. I wouldn't have ever started the library, but didn't think books would be so digitally available.
I have a couple of vaccumes I could get rid of, but who would cut my hair? Flobee--and they do work, if you have a little bit of coordination. I hated going to the hair salon.
That said--if I had to go leave real quick, I would take all my watches, and jeweler's tools. I could fit everything in three legal sized boxes. I would take another three legal sized boxes of books. I would leave my tool chest, and put all tools in six legal sized boxes.
I might need to move quick in the future. I'm not sure where I will go. I won't pay Bay Area rents again. I go out at night, and the people I would interact with moved away. The Bay Area is just not that fun anymore. Never thought I would say that, but then again couldn't imagine living in the Midwest.
I am greatful I never had a kid. Never thought I would say that. I like them, but I never thought life in America would be this ruthless.
I gave away my inheritance, from a pretty brutal father. At the time, I didn't think I would ever need it, nor wanted anything from the man. I gave it all to a family member. I should have kept some of it. It was a lot too.
On the positive side, when I'm dying, I won't need to make to many amends. I haven't screwed over anyone--I can recall. My exes don't want to keep in touch. One told me, "You can be really hurtful. You have hurt my feelings more than any other person." She's now seeing women. I knew I was kinda a handful, but I didn't intentionally want to hurt her feelings. I just couldn't continually agree.
Got off track.
Edit - just realised mc has been behind many of the most interesting comments I've read over the last few months. Might not agree with it all, but enjoy reading them!
Weaponized clothes are a thing too. Everyone knows nobody likes getting someone elses choice of clothes as a gift, especially not kids, but it is a socially acceptable weapon to kinda "get" the recipient. More a slap to the face than a punch to the face, but none the less kinda an aggressive act.
Quick example: I got my family (parents, sister, cousins, etc; no kids right now) a bunch of santa hats from the doller store for christmas that were each a little different and one was technically a chair cover (but looked like an incredibly oversized hat). Then I let them duke it out over who got which hat. Also shutter shades.
They still talk about that Christmas. Experiences are something worthwhile.
My girlfriend's family doesn't do any of this stuff, and so I've had to do "educated guess"-type gifting, which I'm usually somewhat decent at. They tend to get me clothes, which is fine, everyone's gotta wear clothes.
Can get creative with different denominations and presentations. For example, my in laws will give a jar of Nutella as a Christmas gift, with some bills taped to the bottom. Always a little bit of surprise as to where the cash will be. Kids especially love this!
One Christmas, had the grand kids sing a silly song in order to get a dollar or two.
Lots of ways to turn giving cash from an impersonal gift, into something fun and creative!
One of the best gifts I ever got was a Craftsman hand tool set from my father.
(Caveat, of course, is I was a raging petrol-head and kept swiping his tools, so he knew I would use it)
That said my bedroom has a bed and a side table, my living room a sofa, computer desk and TV.
Spare bedroom has my road bike and my cycling gear (as a hobby it's unavoidable).
I have a (somewhat) strict 1 closet policy for clothing, once I fill it for each item in something has to go (easy this year as I dropped nearly 70lbs, virtually nothing I had fits).
I could pack and move my entire possessions in a day and with the exception of my computer gear/bike stuff replace everything for under a 1000 quid.
I can't even claim any asceticism or anything for this, I just don't buy stuff I don't need and get rid of stuff I don't use because if I don't use it why have to clean around it.
Good job. That must feel good.
Also according to NHS guidelines as of a few weeks ago I'm no longer even overweight I'm in the healthy range (not that I entirely trust their crude BMI stuff) which is a nice place to be.
The prediction based on 3500 calories equally 1lb of weight loss was remarkably accurate for me.
I also took supplements since 1500 a day is considered very borderline for a man and I'm quite big naturally.
Supplemented with cod liver oil, multivitamin, vitamin D and calcium and used dissolvable fibre drinks (one side effect of not eating a lot is unfortunate).
Breakfast was porridge (plain oats, no salt, sugar or honey), lunch was no fat cottage cheese with salad, tea was either pork, chicken or fish with steamed veggies.
Occasionally I'd eat McDonalds if the the junk craving was too strong (because it has accurate calorie counts).
Drank a lot of water as well, probably 5-6 pints a day plus coffee and diet energy drinks for pick me ups.
It was actually pretty easy once I got past the first week.
The hard part since has been eating clean and still getting 2500 calories, it's amazing when you cut out sugar and really high fat stuff how much you have to eat to get 2500 calories, its the equiv of 2.5kg of regular cottage cheese!.
Blood pressure went down, insulin response is normal and I feel better generally than I have done in ten years despite my ongoing medical problems, you truly are what you eat.
That sounds like a closed mentality to me, you never know really, someone might just surprise you.
EDIT: Or toilet paper. I'll eventually make use of and need TP.
But sure, there's nothing wrong in not wanting anything from someone else if that is your thing.
If I can't dedicate at LEAST few weeks to constructing the perfect gift/experience for someone, I won't give anything at all. Better nothing than a bad gift...
If I can't dedicate at LEAST few weeks to constructing the perfect gift/experience for someone, I won't give anything at all. Better nothing than a bad gift...
Or just nice pairs of wool socks – I wear out about 5 pairs a year, which is about the right number to receive as gifts. But people might not believe you that you love getting socks :)
EVERY Christmas they but me a new pajama set (or two). Thing is I sleep in my boxers so I have a drawer full of rarely/barely worn pajamas. (I just realized... I'm going to be donating them now and from now on unused to the Salvation Army).
Don't get me wrong, I think socks are a great gift... they wear out and fresh soft fuzzy socks rock!
Anything else I'll buy for myself. I'm perfectly happy to not receive gifts.
Reading through the linked blog entry, at first I got the impression that he just likes a minimal life. But then I started to get the impression he just doesn't want to make the effort to maintain relationships with other humans.
So we'll get each other cooking classes, surfing lessons, bungee jumping, skydiving, etc. etc.
Give me the gift of recognizing my preference for no material gifts.
Or toilet paper. I'll eventually make use of and need TP. (It helps remove crap! ;)
First, I assign string IDs to storage locations following a simple hierarchical pattern. For example, `H` might be the hallway. `Hc` might be the cupboard on the hallway. `Hc3` might be the third drawer in that cupboard, and so on.
Now if I put my old external harddrive into that drawer, I write into the inventory text file: "Hc3 external harddrive". It's the storage location, followed by the asset name. If the thing might have many names, I just chain all of them together.
Now all the queries come down to simple grepping, for example:
- "grep '^H' inventory" gives me all the items I have stored in the hallway.
- "grep Windows inventory" shows me where I put that old Windows 7 DVD.
My system also includes optional "intents" to be appended to the storage location. There's "#s" (sale), "#o" (offer = give away for free), "#g" (garbage), and "#e" (evict = move to a less accessible storage location if space is needed).
So I can just show the output of "grep '#o' inventory" to my friends, and they can see at a glance what stuff I have to give away.
"To achieve full freedom in life, you must never own more than seven things, or else they'll own you!"
I won't spoil the rest.
[1] Thorn - Freedom in Life https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBcLtOaYvPI
Reminds me of the George Carlin bit on "stuff". Brilliant commentary on the American way, as always:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac
> It makes me really happy when another Christmas or birthday has passed and I didn’t receive anything. It makes me feel understood.
My sister and I have this arrangement. I tell her every Christmas that her gift (nothing) is the best one, because I don't have to figure out where to store more junk until enough time has passed that I don't feel guilty throwing it away. She's even more of a clean freak than I am — I believe she actually gets a thrill out of throwing stuff away.
If I want some object, I will buy that object myself. I don't want someone's semi-educated guess (that's most likely wrong) cluttering up my apartment. What I find particularly strange is that people consistently give me things that I explicitly tell them I don't want — they buy me stuff that they want for Christmas or that they think I "need".
The only gifts I like are the ones that have strong sentimental value — something that shows a lot of thought went into it — perhaps a handmade photo book or a good meal. For me, an object will never be as valuable as quality time spent with family.
I can so relate. "What can I get you for birthday?" - "Nothing, mum. I got all I need." - "How about we go buy some new shoes for you?" - "sigh I already have a pair of shoes." :)
The other thing to remember is that it's about the feeling of giving as well as the person receiving, and the grandparents have said they feel like what they're doing is being appreciated more than just another toy or gadget.
About twenty years ago I had to move, and not many friends showed up to help. It was an incredible burden, and that day I said "enough" with the material possessions. Went to the dump, and now its just me, a backpack, and a small storage closet.
Gift-giving can become such a social minefield too. We had a birthday party for my oldest son and specifically requested no gifts (he has enough toys). One attendant missed it or ignored it and brought one anyway. We politely thanked them for the gift, and were immediately confronted by several other parents who became quite defensive and a little angry with us (seemingly embarrassed that they had not brought gifts). Some of them even came back after the party with gifts to somehow make amends in their minds. There's a lot of social stuff I don't understand surrounding gift-giving.
Except this year somebody sent lots of gifts for two of my nephews. It was ridiculous and very uncomfortable for the rest of the family to watch.
The only real reason I decry gift giving on my birthday is because I have so much shit I'm temporarily satisfied, not because I'm above having shit. If I couldn't afford some of those things and someone got one of them for me I'd be overjoyed.
Its also weird to hear that people think its minimalist to own a smartphone and laptop. Those devices do so many things, they're the equivalent of hundreds of gadgets. Or how "I don't own a TV" is the clarion call of the intellectual hipster but he spends his days shitposting on the internet, binging netflix, subscribing to hundreds of youtube channels, etc.
Having been homeless at one point, I've become a bit of a hoarder, because you never know when things will go south and you are one month away from being homeless (again).
Also we'll see how often you keep erasing things and starting from scratch as you get older and find that remembering things is a lot harder and takes a lot longer to rebuild.
Youth can cause foolishness.
It goes both ways, though, doesn't it? Now you need to find a larger apartment to keep around your dining table, toilet paper collection, books. Was that worth keeping them around? Some things yes, other things no.
How prevalent is/will be being minimalistic when people get older?
Is the correct approach to saving to include only cash/bank accounts?
"Why I gave away my company to charity"
[1] https://sivers.org/trust
This is part of why I wrote in my other comment that we should not conflate this minimalism stuff with some sort of higher virtue. It's just affluent people prioritizing a certain type of convenience over other types of convenience, because they can afford to.
I mean, personally, I like having 'stuff' - especially the sort of stuff I need at a moment's notice that I can't get amazon to overnight me, but if you live in a major metro, it's more of an expense than it is a cushion.
Of course, if I owned a big house with a garage, the equation would be somewhat different, but in areas where I want to live, that is somewhat unrealistic.
It's a great freeing feeling, and I'm not one that gets sentimental over inanimate objects.
Anyone care to share some good minimalism-related resources?
That said, the ability to retake space is soooooo worth it. My Kindle has dozens of books, magazines, and long form articles. Over the long term, I have saved volumes of physical space and pounds of weight.
While I miss the physical look of having rows of beautiful books decorate a place, I don't mind having more open space for my psyche and other activities (music).
Technical books I tend to keep as ebooks on my desktop where I work anyway.
And while I admire the act of giving books away, either to BoA or one's local library, I like to go back to my book every once in a while to recall a specific section that resonated. E-readers allows me to save highlights in the cloud, where I can go back to find particular interesting tidbits and find the fuller section if need be. This is helpful complicated concepts that often require multiple reads over time to sink in.
I don't think I've lived in a house for longer than two years in my entire life. I've lived in different cities, provinces, and even countries. I naturally keep the amount of "stuff" that I own down to an amount that can be packed up into one car/truck load. I love the sense of freedom that comes with being able to pick up and go somewhere else in a day.
I also share the thoughts on gifts. Christmas time a Birthdays I always tell people to not get me anything and I their gift to me is a good dinner and time spent with each-other. If they have to get me something then it's the essentials like clothing or consumables. I like having a small set of core, quality items such as my clothing, cameras, and laptop/phone. Everything else is temporary.
Come family time this will change, but for now I'm happy living simply.
Ok, you don't want stuff, but spare me the stress you feel around your family/others not understanding you. Use your energy in a more friendly and giving way and maybe you'll find that it's a bonus to receive the chance to get out in your community, meet and share and give to those that could use a leg up.
I bet once you cycle back and tell your family and friends about the people and places and experiences you now have after donating things, they'll understand. Some will have a hard time with it, but I doubt for long.
I get a bonus item every 5 yrs at my company. Couple years ago received a 60" TV, took me all of a minute and one email to a local school in need and they drove over and picked it up.
The way I read your comment, you're trying to replace one obligation with another (find somewhere to give it away). You're telling me that this absolves the first obligation ("they'll understand"), and that I'll enjoy the second one ("it's a bonus to..."). I'm skeptical of both of those things: you don't know me and you don't know my family and friends. But even if you're right, I don't want the second obligation.
If I want to get out in the community, I can do that without waiting for someone to give me a gift I don't want.
(As it happens, in my case, I often like the gift more than I dislike the obligation. Maintaining an amazon wishlist is helpful for this. But not everyone is the same, and "spare me" is an unkind reaction to them.)
- donate - after talking to a friend you realize you have something you don't want you can give them - talk to a neighbor and realize you can clear out space in a garage or house or shed by giving them something - just throw something in an alley and someone comes by within the hour and happily loads it up in a truck for use or selling elsewhere
Sorry if you can't see the positive in the effort expended.
Yes, I should not assume much about you. I am optimistic that people don't feel WORSE during the act of giving.
The guy started a company in 1998, I'm guessing he's not what you call young.
I do not want anything for xmas/birthday. My wife always wants to get me something and makes me feel like a killjoy. This is perhaps manageable.
Bigger problem is I have 2 kids who get invited to parties. I have to take the birthday boy/girl something. Fine - but this means it's reciprocated.
Valentines day recently. Used to be for asking a new girl out - now you have to gift something to your wife of 20 years. I have successfully vanquished this one.
Coming over for dinner? They bring a (bad) bottle of wine that I now have to get rid of. On and on the waste goes.
It just goes on and on.
I basically just want someone to come to my place and enjoy themselves, they shouldn't have to bring me a gift: I invited them. If they do anyway I thank them but I wish they had not.
I used to drink bad wine, then I realised I'm putting myself through displeasure for no real end.
I'm not a drinker myself, but I always assumed that people brought wine to dinners with the intention of drinking them at that dinner. Shouldn't that take care of getting rid of it?
If it's bad why spoil dinner!
If somebody brings a bottle of wine to dinner, unless you specifically planned the meal to go with a specific bottle of wine (or if they specifically say that this bottle is meant to be opened at a certain time or for a certain occasion), open the bottle they brought. Otherwise, you're sending one of two messages:
1) I'm certain that this wine you brought as a gift is so bad, I don't even want to bother drinking it.
2) I'm certain that this wine you brought as a gift is so good, I don't want to share it with you at all.
Neither message is a good look. If it's bad wine, open it, share the bad experience, and joke about how horrible the wine is. You've all learned something. If it's good wine, open it, share the good experience, and marvel over how great the bottle is.
You'll have a lot of trouble finding it for sale unless you happen to live in the upstate NY area; they're a small winery in the Finger Lakes region. I visited them once when I was living in that area, and discovered later that their table white could be bought at my local Century Wine and Liquor for ten bucks. At the time, I was living with some friends and none of us were making very much money (we were all immediately post-college), and that bottle of wine was the backdrop to basically all of our social gatherings and group dinners. A couple years later, when I moved out to California, I sent the winery an email letting them know how much I had enjoyed drinking their wine with my friends, and how sad I was that I was no longer in an area where they had distribution. In response, they offered to sell me a case for ten percent off, and covered shipping as a wedding present for my upcoming wedding.
It's worth noting here that while I'm presenting this story as an example of how nice the winemakers are, it should be stressed that they are not unusual in this regard! If you live in an area that has vineyards and wineries, you should go visit and do tastings! You can probably find cheap wines that you like, you can build relationships with the people who make the wines, and you will enjoy the wine even more for it. It's boatloads of fun to bring a bottle of wine to dinner with friends and say "Now, I know the folks who make this, they're especially proud of this bottle. Let me know what you think!"
The article was on wasting stuff and I don't want to waste more time on etiquette on hacker-news.
Or as the Spanish teenagers do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalimotxo
An example would be the local humane society, and each birthday party attendee is asked to bring something that could be donated, such as leashes, bowls, or food. Then the birthday boy/girl gets to take all of the donations to the humane society.
It's a win/win. No additional clutter, and birthday boy/girl gets life experience with donation and community involvement.
I stopped accepting / asking for gifts after I overheard them stressing about a credit card bill. It didn't make sense that they should stress so I could have something I didn't want or need.
I have a small soap company on the side. I started bringing soap as a hostess gift instead of wine. It felt weird at first, but I find that most people are grateful to have a useful gift over some two-bit beach wine.
One year my parents didn't send me a card or anything. It was soooo sweet! They finally listened and respected my desire(s). Then I found out they actually forgot. Which was bittersweet because that's sad to many but awesome because they made my birthday a non issue.
Anyways, for my birthday... I want to celebrate my parents for giving me the greatest gift of all, life. I'm ordering flowers for them right now.
Edit: changed "a catch 22" to "bittersweet" and "mother" to "parents".
This book has quite a bit of silliness in it (I found it charming, you may not) but it has been very good for my mental health:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Life-Changing-Magic-Tidying-Declut...