Similar - got the kids one for Xmas thinking "this will last a while". They are still in the packaging while I fuss about other things. Ah well, they can get faster boards in a while.
Great news indeed - though it looks like we're still committed to Raspbian?
As much as I love the work the guys behind that have done, is the move to a native Debian distro for this architecture hamstrung by specifications, or something else?
As far as I know, the main thing hamstringing native Debian support is that the binary blob required to boot any of the Pi's is not DFSG-compliant so Debian won't ship images for the Pi. The second biggest thing is that you still need a custom non-mainline kernel.
Kernel support improved a lot and we now have https://pignus.computer/ running mainline kernel. Graphics and camera support are still missing but we'll eventually get there with 4.5 kernel.
Is the Bluetooth and wifi part of the SoC or at least get a decent bus? The pi's usb is known for suckage, and if the networking could be greatly improved (especially latency) that would be an amazing improvement.
Raspberry Pi kinda won the race not because it had superior hardware, but because of the community it sapwn. You have an order of magnitude more content online about the Pi than the competitors.
I think there's still a market for more powerful devices that don't provide as much hand holding. I agree though the community aspect of the pi is a huge draw, especially when it comes to fixing issues and more esoteric projects.
I have a XU4 and the only reason I got it was for the 2gb of ram. I don't need 8 cores and I certainly didn't need a fan.
I'll be getting a C2.
Does anyone know if the USB ports are fully powered on the C2? As I can power a USB HDD from the USB port on the XU4 (this is a big thing for me as it saves another power source).
ps: wanted to say the rpi team seems very smart in the regularity and smoothness of their product delivery. A nice amount of changes, same price point, reusable form factor, cute surprise annoucements (pizero). Kudos for that.
> The Pine64 will be shipping out to backers shortly, but it’s already dead on arrival. I’m a backer of the Pine64 Kickstarter campaign, and I should have some commitment bias towards this cheap 64-bit computer. Even I must concede the Raspberry Pi 3 is the superior board.
How is that, since Pine64 will have same CPU, plus 2GB of RAM, and Gbit ethernet.
More accurately, the Pi has a bigger community of vocal fans and press who'll play up its accomplishments and shout down competitors and criticism of the Pi. For example, notice how not having onboard WiFi doesn't matter when the Pi lacks it, but is a big deal when it has it and its competitor doesn't. Also how the Hackaday article spins it as a good thing that, four years later, the Pi Foundation has released a board that's actually useable for the purpose they were promoting it for all along. For those four years, any suggestion the Pi wasn't usable for education was shouted down by fans and ignored by the press, but now the Pi 3's out and they can spin it as a positive thing...
Please don't use four spaces to quote material. Or if you do use four spaces please remember to add line breaks.
(Parent had used four spaces to quote a very long line of text. This breaks mobile by having a single very long line that needs to be scrolled. Scrolling on mobile is broken. Parent edited their post to remove the leading four spaces)
> and if you contributed to the C.H.I.P. campaign, you might be waiting another three months.
This portion of the article makes it sound like they have written off C.H.I.P. as a non starter.
I actually received my CHIP back in early January, along with most of the campaign contributors. People are using CHIP today and making things with it. For those that ordered around "black friday" on the getchip.com site, those are expected to ship in June (I have a second order in through there), but the early Kickstarter ones have shipped. They also have more shipping each month.
On another note from your article, the Pi Zero is selling for more than the Pi3 on EBay. Thought that was interesting. Glad I bought mine at the $5 price. :)
- IEEE 802.11b/g/n support
- A maximum transmit and receive rate of 150 Mbps
- Supports both 20 MHz and 40 MHz channels
- Supports Infrastructure mode, Wi-Fi Direct and soft-AP mode
- Supports WPA, WPA2 (802.11i), AES/TKIP, IEEE 802.1X and WAPI
- A maximum transmission power 15 dbm
- Operating Frequency 2.4 MHz – 2.497 MHz
- Bluetooth Built-in
- New System on chip (BCM2837 reported to be 1.5x speed of previous gen)
- Chip is now 64bit ARMv8 QUAD Core 64bit processor
- MicroSD Card swapped out. Not more annoying spring ejection system that breaks.
- Position of status LEDs has changed (there is a chip antenna where they used to be).
If it's the same as the previous models: no, the audio of the Raspberry Pi is pretty rudimentary (it uses PWM) [1]. However, you can use an external DAC to improve this.
A couple of years ago I bought a Raspberry Pi 2 to use as a music server. However, when playing through a Benchmark USB DAC I hear pops and clicks in the audio. Instead I bought a Cubox and use its Toslink output which works perfectly. Does anyone know if the USB audio issue have been fixed in the third version of the Raspberry Pi?
Connecting the analog audio of the RPi (1B) to my receiver causes the receiver's CPU to slow down to the point where it is unusable! It looks like the RPi puts out a DC-biased signal, and the receiver is seriously lacking input robustness. The two devices were also connected via HDMI, ruling out ground issues.
I've since moved the music setup to also use HDMI (the DAC in the receiver is bound to be better anyway), but sheesh, be warned.
The UI slows down gradually until the whole thing is unresponsive, reproducibly. IIRC disconnect the analog input, and the UI picks right back up.
I've no idea if it's a priority interrupt firing too much, body diode current weirdness, or some thermal issue. And I'm certainly not going to keep teasing the fault to figure it out.
The RPI can do great audio out of the box without USB, just don't use the 3.5mm jack. Instead, remember that HDMI does uncompressed bitstream audio!
You can connect the RPI to a dac/amp with HDMI input or a digital audio extractor. The best quality will be found by connecting to an HDMI to SPDIF extractor and then running that into a good quality DAC.
The nice thing about this solution is that you're not dependent on the horrible and CPU-sucking USB offered by the RPI.
HDMI amplifiers, DACs, and audio extractors (which give a clean digital bitstream on SPDIF) provide an HDMI output. The output HDMI will continue to carry the video portion of the signal and usually (if not always) the audio stream as well.
Actually (unrelated to Pi 3), audio was recently improved in an experimental driver.
From the engineer who worked on it:
> I reimplemented the original PWM-based 11-bit audio @48kHz as 7-bit 2nd-order Sigma-Delta modulated at 781.25kHz. The effective noise floor with this scheme approximates that of CD-quality audio DACs.
Too bad it still doesn't have SATA, USB3 and Gigabit Ethernet.But this is already big step forward, wifi, bluetooth and a better cpu for the same price. The next generation will look even more promising. Currently I am just using my obsolete wifi dongle for my rasp
I haven't seen anything with directly connected SATA outside of iMX6 boards, and the pins aren't always connected. What did the Ax0 based Cubieboards use?
The original Cubieboards used on-chip AHCI SATA controllers. Allwinner dropped it from their newer chips, presumably because they're targeting tablet use and there's no need for them.
Also they have a nice battery connector, they'll keep the battery charged and switch to it if main power fails (and even keep the SATA drive powered (not sure if you plug a 3.5" one, though)).
You probably want a computer designed around performance instead of "community". Check out the Odroid C2. It's got a 64 bit quad core CPU (just* like the Pine and RPi3) but clocked at 2GHz. And has real gigabit. And has twice as much ram. And can drive a 4k screen comfortably. Sadly no USB3. You can get that, but in boards that cost $70.
The C2 goes on sale in like one or two days for $40. (edit: You can buy in now on HK's website.) Kind of a childish move for the RPi Foundation to be making so much noise about their new board right now, actually. (edit: Okay, benbenben makes a fair and accurate point. Several boards, including the first, have been released at the end of February.)
* Not entirely just like. It's an Amlogic chip instead of Broadcom or Allwinner. Amlogic is one of the few without blatant GPL abuse.
Only if you order directly from Korea. Normally you buy from a distributor. For example, Ameridroid will be shipping the C2 on March 4th and their fee is $6.75.
Truly awesome, yes indeed .. and from my perspective, completely out of left-field. Fact is, this kind of evolution rewards those who invest in the platform, and is definitely a key indicator of a successful platform strategy, wherein the benefits of standardization and compatibility, applied along Moorse curve, results in the platform becoming more and more useful. Really great that they're able to maintain the price-point, the form-factor, GPIO compatibility, and so on; all the while pushing the platform into "workstation-class" territory, bit by bit.
The only thing that would make it better .. truly, the only thing .. is if we had the ability to go up to 16gigs of RAM. RAM is lacking, but still the machine is awesome. (I'll just assume that the next $35 investment in the rPi dream that I'll make, will fix this issue..)
I've ordered rPi 3, I'm a true believer, for it to sit atop a bundle of stacks of every other rPi released so far .. and, it seems, the rPi revolution is beneficial to everyone.
I mean, this class of workstation device, for a Linux desktop system, for .. ~$50 worth of investment .. phenomenal!
I hope we see more stuff like this, and it forces the mobile power-horses to re-consider bundling the compiler onboard.
Fun Fact: with this new rev of rPi, I can develop software for the fleet-of-rPi's like never before, i.e. it'll be usable enough to just ditch the cross-compiler and other bunk needed to maintain dominance in a tech-soaked garden of various walls, smokes and mirrors .. so instead of giving my customers an App-store link this year, I think I'll just put the working system in the mail.
> The only thing that would make it better .. truly, the only thing .. is if we had the ability to go up to 16gigs of RAM.
Yeah, I keep thinking about how a tiny device with oodles of RAM would be such a killer Redis or static asset server. Or even a killer database server, for read-heavy loads.
Although am not even sure if that would be possible in the near future - for SoC's like the BCM2837, the RAM is on the same chip as the CPU+GPU, right? I don't even know if it would be feasible to build gobs of RAM into a package like that.
Of course, RPi's are still freaking awesome, and I am happy they exist.
No, the RAM is a separate chip. On the BCM2835 devices they use a package-on-package arrangement so on casual inspection they look like the same chip. On the Pi 2 and Pi 3 the RAM is on the bottom of the board.
There is apparently an architectural limit in the Videocore 4 that limits it to 1Gbyte.
> It costs $35 and comes with ethernet, wifi, and a quad-core processor.
That's not all that much of a differentiator. The Banana Pi Pro only costs $12.89 more on Amazon. It doesn't have built-in wifi and it's dual- instead of quad-core, but it does have real SATA and better video. If I weren't perfectly happy with the Odroid U3 I've been using as a Linux desktop for the last couple of years, I'd probably lean toward that instead of the RP3, but that's not the point. The point is that SATA would be a nice addition, and not unreasonable at this approximate price point, even if the RP3 is already awesome.
2.5A? That fills me with worry, as i have yet to see one of those that do not assume the device will be Apple, and thus implement their signaling on the data pins.
previously you'd have had a wifi dongle in one slot, plus then maybe mouse and keyboard... likely to be fine with the same power supply for the same use cases as before. Don't try and run your christmas tree off it.
“Lastly, there’s an upgraded switched power source that goes up to 2.5 Amps instead of just 2 Amps - allowing your Pi to power even more powerful devices over USB ports.
Note: Our 5V 2A power supply still works great with the Pi 3. For most uses, you don't need 2.5 amps of power and our 5V2A supply should be sufficient.”
Still, it would be nice if they did make/source a generic USB wall adapter that can supply 2.5 A of current. Hopefully, this new Raspberry Pi will increase the demand for such a thing.
No kidding, it was otherwise such a simple thing to tuck away and use even for GPIO/breadboarding projects, but then you had to find one or two dongles to handle wifi/bluetooth turning the whole thing from handheld to a cluster of wires, dongles and connectors.
Massive improvement if that was all that happened.
To clarify, this means exactly the same GPIO capabilities (no extras like analog inputs, etc), as opposed to full GPIO compatibility with previous generations?
Also, any idea when documentation for the new SoC will be released (i.e. the equivalent of this, for the bcm2837: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberry...)? Said documentation could, of course, answer the above question, but I can't find any yet.
Exactly the same capabilities, though very low-level code might notice a difference because the main UART is now used for Bluetooth, so the GPIOs use the mini-UART which is apparently affected by overclocking.
The cardholder used to be a push-to-eject type, but apparently this was unpopular. Sometimes failing to eject, sometimes too easy to trigger (since it's protruding and not recessed in casework). Now it's just a friction fit.
That's interesting. The original Pi was a friction fit (full-size SD card), but that was unpopular, so they switched to the spring-eject system for Micro-SD. Seems they cannot make up their minds which one they prefer.
Unless what was typed is not true, I disagree with the downvotes. I'm someone thinking about getting a pi and I find information on alternatives helpful in making my decision.
The only problem I have with Windows RT or Windows IOT is that there won't be any driver for any USB devices (in particular any probe). I am not sure what most people use RaspberryPis for but I found them useful as temperature loggers. And I don't feel brave enough to write my own driver...
For a hobbyist who is a windows user, linux isn't exactly user friendly. Every simple thing takes time. I managed to get my thing working with a little bit of python but it took me a day to do something that would take me 10min in .net and windows.
I don't think regular linux users realise the importance of a good UI to make linux go mainstream and be accessible. No UI for the firewall, no UI for scheduled jobs (CRON), no UI to give the right permissions to enable some script to execute. Lots of acronym based commands that are anything but intuitive.
As is, my experience of linux is that it is a "RTFM or die" system.
[edit] and also the python 2 vs python 3 thing, which technically isn't linux's fault but that I wouldn't have to deal with if I could use .net. This was my first experience with python and I lost two hours on a bug to realise that python 2 wasn't compatible with SNI. And then you have several versions of python installed and to run anything you have to specify the right version and sub-version of python in the command. This was an awful experience.
Right clicking a script file should give you Properties, where you can select Execute permission.
There's a critical need to attract more UX designers and testers to something like Raspbian, and I think the Raspberry Pi Foundation is in a good position to do that.
Actually the firewall thing was my experience with Ubuntu. I tried to setup linux in a VM to learn to use it, and failed on what I thought would be a simple first step: configure it so that I can connect to the VM using RDP. That involves tweaking the firewall and installing an RDP server. I finally discovered ufw but the original instructions involved creating a security group, etc. As for the RDP thing, I still have't found a stable solution (but have long deleted the VM since).
TeamViewer have a build that uses Wine which works well.
What VM host software are you using? If it's VirtualBox, just install the guest additions and use it through there.
RDP is really a Microsoft-only protocol. It's better on Windows than VNC because AFAIK it's just sending draw calls across the wire. I'm not sure what XRDP does.
You may actually have a better experience on a Pi 2 or 3, because of the way Raspbian is set up to run by default.
I was using hyper-v on windows 8.1 (now 10) machine that I use as a server. I didn't want to run a local VM as I was connecting from a laptop running windows 7.
I could also have used VNC but I much prefer the RDP experience, in particular being able to share the clipboard with the local machine and to copy text and files.
Ah right. I don't use Hyper-V because I want to be able to use USB devices under Linux. I've had a lot more problems under Hyper-V than I have with VirtualBox. Both can't be installed side by side, either, you'd have to remove the boot flag or uninstall Hyper-V before you can use VirtualBox.
VirtualBox also does clipboard and file sharing, but only with the Guest Additions (only tested under a recent Ubuntu).
Thanks for offering, I appreciate it. But I did manage to get the temperature logging to work in the end, and will most likely stick to windows for the time being. I would love to learn linux but it seems to consume more time that I am ready to spend on it.
Understandable. The offer stands (and to anyone else in the same position). Although I guess if a lot of people took me up on the offer I don't scale too well.
I thought the whole point of those DIY projects was to learn something? If you just use what you already know (.NET) for everything, why even bother? Just buy a readymade IoT thermometer.
Yeah but if the environment setup takes 3x the time of the project it becomes less fun. I had this experience when trying to log temperatures to InfluxDB for use with Grafana.
I did learn something doing this DIY project. But at the end of the day there is also the question of whether I enjoyed using these new tool, and I am afraid that I have done all the CRON editing I could stand.
I also looked at commercial alternatives but I wanted it to call one of my web services and that's not what these IoT devices typically do.
Even on Linux, there's Mono (for running .net code).
FWIW, I think the Windows IOT that's made for RPi will be a big disappointment for most people - as the expectation would be "regular Windows, compatible with Anything and Everything, just running on RPi" versus the reality of "something that loosely resembles Windows, but severely limited". In this, I believe that it's better to dive into a Linux distro (the NOOBS one should make stuff easier) - there's a learning curve, but you're not getting sidetracked by the expectation of "runs on desktop Windows, why is it refusing to run here?"
Which is why I was referring to Windows RT rather than Windows 10 IoT. I think Windows IoT is meant to run on really tiny under-powered devices. The specs of the RaspberryPi 3 seem to look more like a modern smartphone and I would assume Windows RT would run OK on it.
I don't think Windows users appreciate the importance of a good command line accessible over SSH for managing headless systems.
I don't mean to be too snarky about it, but it's a different environment and you're complaining that it's not as easy as the one you're familiar with. "Intuitive" is difficult to quantify; the Windows interface has changed repeatedly in the 7 -> 8 -> 10 era while the basic command line interface hasn't, so once you learn it it's not likely to be obsoleted. There are Linux UIs with all of the stuff you mention - GNOME has always targeted that market.
.NET has its own versioning pain with the .NET frameworks across different versions of Windows. I think it will eventually become more popular on Linux, but only once trust of Microsoft has slowly been rebuilt. Having an open source System.Windows.Forms would help too.
(Professionally I'm a Windows CE developer at the moment, which is a little weird from a Linux background)
I think the ideal system has an intuitive and exhaustive GUI, but where everything can be scriptable.
And a more than ideal system would give you the way to go from GUI to scripting easily. I.e. in any control panel you would have a button at the top that if you click, will make some command windows appear below the current window, which would show you the command line equivalent of anything that you do using the GUI.
I am not arguing against having a scriptable OS. I am saying that a GUI makes things a lot easier to understand intuitively, being able to observe the state of the system visually and making it clear what are all the possible options from a given point.
Such as? It's a point-of-sale system that runs on PC tills (Toshiba, IBM etc) and also our own less general-purpose hardware (iMX6). It was written in the 90s as an MFC application. The original system the company was founded on was written in the early 80s in Z80 assembler.
The dedicated hardware uses a mixture of Flash and battery-backed SRAM to provide a crash- and powerloss-resistant transaction system.
It sounds like in some ways you have no issue with Linux other than it's not Windows.
I think that's basically where we're at and will continue to be at with desktop Linux because essentially the 'internal' problems are all solved now. Ubuntu boots and installs from a CD/USB in about seven clicks (all of which are either typing a name, language, or clicking forward).
A Linux user has no need to play around with RDP just as a Windows user has no need to play around with X11. I think it's unfair to expect mutual compatibility there.
If you're waiting for that, it will never happen, because effectively you're asking for Windows userspace running on the Linux kernel. A bit like asking for windows games on Linux - WINE exists, but native will always be better.
Apparently the Odroid C2 has 2GB of RAM and gigabit Ethernet for $40, it just hasn't been receiving the publicity of the Pi 3. For example, for some reason the Hackaday post only compared the Pi 3 to the $70 octo-core+USB3 XU4 and then immediately dismissed it as too expensive.
This is Element14 right now: http://imgur.com/yNaFvuJ saying the Pi 2 Model B is the latest model.
Do you ship to the US for cheap enough that it makes sense to pay for international shipping instead of just a more expensive device? Do any of the sellers that actually have current Pi devices in stock? The answer appears to be no.
I think you'd be better off waiting for Adafruit to go live tomorrow. This is a total assumption, but they're known to be good friends of the Raspberry Pi Foundation, and I would be surprised if they didn't have stock.
The Make interview said that right now the factory is almost at capacity making the RPi 3, which is why there haven't been many Zeros available. We'll probably have to wait another month or so.
I don't see where they have lied about the fact their product isn't available in infinite quantity. And the linked article acknowledges the frustrations you raised. Therefore it's fair to objectively characterise your contribution as simultaneously unreasonable and redundant.
About two years ago, I had a chance to ask Eben Upton if there would be a new platform like Arduino and Raspberry PI, what characteristics the new platform should have? And he said:
> There's scope for something very powerful (almost PC-like) in the $70 price range. If I was starting a new venture today, this is where I'd aim.
There is very powerful project like Bunnie Huang's Novena [1], but just the board will cost $550.
What also has changed: no I2S connector for audio chips any more, and I had hoped for a proper 3-lane I2S to be able to do 5.1 HQ audio without relying on either the crappy USB bus itself or cheap quality USB interfaces.
Not to mention that I2S sound is far less workload on the CPU than USB sound.
Oh, and why doesn't the Wifi/BT antenna have an SMA connector for external antennas, e.g. directional antennas?!
Doesnt HDMI audio provide as good quality as any i2s connector? Or do you just need i2s for interfacing with your own microcontrollers/older recieviers, which dont necessarily have hdmi (and thus copyright compliance, making it more expensive)?
Last I read Raspberry Pi should allow for 5.1 hdmi passthrough or at least DTS.
HDMI audio requires an extractor (so one more wall wart + device), and I'm using a Pi2 for home cinema. And I'm one of those with an "old" HiFi setup without digital input, just analog.
It does and that's how I have it set up. RPi source to receiver over HDMI. DTS 1080p movies playback beautifully with a slight overclock (on an original B).
Was there a seperate I2S connector or do you mean they're not routing those connections to the GPIO any more? I believe this board: https://www.hifiberry.com/ and the various other similar boards just connect via GPIO and use I2S
Thanks for the information, I was under the impression that the Pi 2 also used P5... but indeed it's on the 40 pin header now (http://www.pagemac.com/projects/i2s_amp)
If you have the technical skills to make it work it might be worth looking into the AC97 interface on some of the Allwinner boards. I'm not sure anyone's tried using it yet and some driver development will be required though.
ram upgrade would be nice, but imo speed is more important. SoC is still too slow to run anything that would need more than 1GB, but bandwidth is stretched pretty thin as it is ,shared with gpu - fullhd on 2 monitors with VGART666 already saturates mem controller.
also fast IO would be nice, one pcie lane or usb 3.0.
This chipset is supported by the open-source brcmfmac driver is available from the brcm80211 module of the linux kernel package, maintained upstream by the linux kernel community (source https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx)
Either way, it's not really that interesting since you cannot boot the Rapsberry Pi without proprietary blobs anyway. I guess the important thing is that it'll work out out the box.
Yes. The full recommendation reads "This time round, we’re recommending a 2.5A adapter if you want to connect power-hungry USB devices to the Raspberry Pi."
So I guess the assumption is the average person won't connect power-hungry USB devices to their Pi 3.
That would be pushing it for powering through just the RPi. Webcams are typically rated for 500mA each and the RPi has been running around 700mA usage. So with the recommended increase, I'd wager their power usage may have gone up to 900+mA.
Wouldn't the more common use-case for power-hungry usb devices be to have a powered hub to drive them? Then you don't have to worry about browning-out the RPi itself, though of course the cable clutter is worse.
Probably a stupid question, I don't know much about this stuff. Is there any reason not to just use a 2.5A even if you're not connecting power-hungry USB devices? If it doesn't cost significantly more and it doesn't hurt to use 2.5 anyway, it's something I'd rather not have to worry about.
Ordered! Cheaper (and faster) to have it shipped from the UK than from a US seller!
Strangely enough, one of the RPi2s I bought last week was DOA (wouldn't boot off a card that worked on an identical Pi2; red/green LEDs just stayed solid).. So, how convenient!
Aside from the board, you also need a power supply with a micro USB connection, capable of 2.5A of output (realistically, you can use a smaller supply, but 2.5A means you shouldn't have to worry about power limits).
You need a MicroSD card at least 8GB in size, although larger is always nicer. Since it's the main storage for the device, faster is better.
An ethernet cable, if you don't plan on exclusively using wireless.
A case: the Pi3 is the same layout as the Pi2, so a previous-generation case will be fine.
An HDMI cable, if you won't be using it exclusively headlessly (or a cable with TRRS on one end and red+yellow+white RCA connections on the other end, if you're going the analog route).
A USB or bluetooth keyboard and mouse.
That would be my shopping list, if I didn't have those things laying around at home.
318 comments
[ 5.2 ms ] story [ 292 ms ] threadMine craft runs anywhere
https://www.raspberrypi.org/help/faqs/#generalFuture
As much as I love the work the guys behind that have done, is the move to a native Debian distro for this architecture hamstrung by specifications, or something else?
[0]https://youtu.be/Y2Z6b64eh2E?t=172 (around 2m50)
Compared to the RPi3, this extra 5USD gets you gigabit ethernet, 2GB DDR3, higher clock speed, and HDMI 2.0 capable of 4K60.
I'll be getting a C2.
Does anyone know if the USB ports are fully powered on the C2? As I can power a USB HDD from the USB port on the XU4 (this is a big thing for me as it saves another power source).
Not showing at Farnell yet though, probably in 1.5hrs.
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/processor-microcontroller-deve...
http://hackaday.com/2016/02/28/introducing-the-raspberry-pi-...
ps: wanted to say the rpi team seems very smart in the regularity and smoothness of their product delivery. A nice amount of changes, same price point, reusable form factor, cute surprise annoucements (pizero). Kudos for that.
http://makezine.com/2016/02/28/eben-upton-talks-about-the-ne...
He also talks a little about his ideas for future versions of the board.
How is that, since Pine64 will have same CPU, plus 2GB of RAM, and Gbit ethernet.
(Parent had used four spaces to quote a very long line of text. This breaks mobile by having a single very long line that needs to be scrolled. Scrolling on mobile is broken. Parent edited their post to remove the leading four spaces)
This portion of the article makes it sound like they have written off C.H.I.P. as a non starter.
I actually received my CHIP back in early January, along with most of the campaign contributors. People are using CHIP today and making things with it. For those that ordered around "black friday" on the getchip.com site, those are expected to ship in June (I have a second order in through there), but the early Kickstarter ones have shipped. They also have more shipping each month.
I'm waiting for mind to ship.
http://thepihut.com/products/raspberry-pi-3-model-b
Cheers!
- Wifi Built-in
- Bluetooth Built-in- New System on chip (BCM2837 reported to be 1.5x speed of previous gen)
- Chip is now 64bit ARMv8 QUAD Core 64bit processor
- MicroSD Card swapped out. Not more annoying spring ejection system that breaks.
- Position of status LEDs has changed (there is a chip antenna where they used to be).
- New power switching for 2.5Amp power supply.
What is the same:
- Same USB/Ethernet controller
- Same form factor
- Same GPIO
Source (with images): http://raspberry.piaustralia.com.au/raspberry-pi-3-model-b-c...
[1] http://www.crazy-audio.com/2014/07/sound-quality-of-the-rasp...
I've since moved the music setup to also use HDMI (the DAC in the receiver is bound to be better anyway), but sheesh, be warned.
I've no idea if it's a priority interrupt firing too much, body diode current weirdness, or some thermal issue. And I'm certainly not going to keep teasing the fault to figure it out.
You can connect the RPI to a dac/amp with HDMI input or a digital audio extractor. The best quality will be found by connecting to an HDMI to SPDIF extractor and then running that into a good quality DAC.
The nice thing about this solution is that you're not dependent on the horrible and CPU-sucking USB offered by the RPI.
From the engineer who worked on it:
> I reimplemented the original PWM-based 11-bit audio @48kHz as 7-bit 2nd-order Sigma-Delta modulated at 781.25kHz. The effective noise floor with this scheme approximates that of CD-quality audio DACs.
from the forums https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1364...
http://linux-sunxi.org/Xunlong_Orange_Pi_Plus#SATA
If a board with SATA 3.0 existed, that is still just 600MB/s.
# dd if=/dev/zero of=6G bs=1M count=6144
6144+0 records in
6144+0 records out
6442450944 bytes (6.4 GB) copied, 136.176 s, 47.3 MB/s
# dd if=6G of=/dev/null bs=1M
6144+0 records in
6144+0 records out
6442450944 bytes (6.4 GB) copied, 93.6363 s, 68.8 MB/s
Also they have a nice battery connector, they'll keep the battery charged and switch to it if main power fails (and even keep the SATA drive powered (not sure if you plug a 3.5" one, though)).
I was wrong. Horrible support, 2 of the usb ports never worked. The community is non existent compared to rpi.
It costs $35 and comes with ethernet, wifi, and a quad-core processor.
Furthermore, it's fully supported in linux.
That's terribly awesome for what it is.
A decade ago you had to spend 50x that amount of cash to get a laptop with those specs, without linux support.
No matter how you cut it, the Raspberry Pi 3 is not bad from any angle. At all.
The C2 goes on sale in like one or two days for $40. (edit: You can buy in now on HK's website.) Kind of a childish move for the RPi Foundation to be making so much noise about their new board right now, actually. (edit: Okay, benbenben makes a fair and accurate point. Several boards, including the first, have been released at the end of February.)
* Not entirely just like. It's an Amlogic chip instead of Broadcom or Allwinner. Amlogic is one of the few without blatant GPL abuse.
It's their fourth birthday, a pretty good time to release a new/updated product, no?
Truly awesome, yes indeed .. and from my perspective, completely out of left-field. Fact is, this kind of evolution rewards those who invest in the platform, and is definitely a key indicator of a successful platform strategy, wherein the benefits of standardization and compatibility, applied along Moorse curve, results in the platform becoming more and more useful. Really great that they're able to maintain the price-point, the form-factor, GPIO compatibility, and so on; all the while pushing the platform into "workstation-class" territory, bit by bit.
The only thing that would make it better .. truly, the only thing .. is if we had the ability to go up to 16gigs of RAM. RAM is lacking, but still the machine is awesome. (I'll just assume that the next $35 investment in the rPi dream that I'll make, will fix this issue..)
I've ordered rPi 3, I'm a true believer, for it to sit atop a bundle of stacks of every other rPi released so far .. and, it seems, the rPi revolution is beneficial to everyone.
I mean, this class of workstation device, for a Linux desktop system, for .. ~$50 worth of investment .. phenomenal!
I hope we see more stuff like this, and it forces the mobile power-horses to re-consider bundling the compiler onboard.
Fun Fact: with this new rev of rPi, I can develop software for the fleet-of-rPi's like never before, i.e. it'll be usable enough to just ditch the cross-compiler and other bunk needed to maintain dominance in a tech-soaked garden of various walls, smokes and mirrors .. so instead of giving my customers an App-store link this year, I think I'll just put the working system in the mail.
Bonanza!
Yeah, I keep thinking about how a tiny device with oodles of RAM would be such a killer Redis or static asset server. Or even a killer database server, for read-heavy loads.
Although am not even sure if that would be possible in the near future - for SoC's like the BCM2837, the RAM is on the same chip as the CPU+GPU, right? I don't even know if it would be feasible to build gobs of RAM into a package like that.
Of course, RPi's are still freaking awesome, and I am happy they exist.
There is apparently an architectural limit in the Videocore 4 that limits it to 1Gbyte.
That's not all that much of a differentiator. The Banana Pi Pro only costs $12.89 more on Amazon. It doesn't have built-in wifi and it's dual- instead of quad-core, but it does have real SATA and better video. If I weren't perfectly happy with the Odroid U3 I've been using as a Linux desktop for the last couple of years, I'd probably lean toward that instead of the RP3, but that's not the point. The point is that SATA would be a nice addition, and not unreasonable at this approximate price point, even if the RP3 is already awesome.
Sounds like you'll be find if you use the original 2A power supply and NOT connect power hungry stuff.
“Lastly, there’s an upgraded switched power source that goes up to 2.5 Amps instead of just 2 Amps - allowing your Pi to power even more powerful devices over USB ports.
Note: Our 5V 2A power supply still works great with the Pi 3. For most uses, you don't need 2.5 amps of power and our 5V2A supply should be sufficient.”
Still, it would be nice if they did make/source a generic USB wall adapter that can supply 2.5 A of current. Hopefully, this new Raspberry Pi will increase the demand for such a thing.
――――――
¹ — https://www.adafruit.com/product/3055
Massive improvement if that was all that happened.
> Same GPIO
To clarify, this means exactly the same GPIO capabilities (no extras like analog inputs, etc), as opposed to full GPIO compatibility with previous generations?
Also, any idea when documentation for the new SoC will be released (i.e. the equivalent of this, for the bcm2837: https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/hardware/raspberry...)? Said documentation could, of course, answer the above question, but I can't find any yet.
(And, if you compare with prices in stores that have it available, is actually cheaper).
The CPU is Cortex-A53. Cache sizes reportedly same as on the Pi 2, 32K data + 32K code + 512K level 2. RAM still 1Gbyte 900MHz.
[1] https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=1379...
I don't think regular linux users realise the importance of a good UI to make linux go mainstream and be accessible. No UI for the firewall, no UI for scheduled jobs (CRON), no UI to give the right permissions to enable some script to execute. Lots of acronym based commands that are anything but intuitive.
As is, my experience of linux is that it is a "RTFM or die" system.
[edit] and also the python 2 vs python 3 thing, which technically isn't linux's fault but that I wouldn't have to deal with if I could use .net. This was my first experience with python and I lost two hours on a bug to realise that python 2 wasn't compatible with SNI. And then you have several versions of python installed and to run anything you have to specify the right version and sub-version of python in the command. This was an awful experience.
The UI for iptables/ipfw should be on Raspian and is called "Firewall Builder"
Cron is taken care of here: https://blog.bartbania.com/linux-2/cron-jobs-with-gui/
Right clicking a script file should give you Properties, where you can select Execute permission.
There's a critical need to attract more UX designers and testers to something like Raspbian, and I think the Raspberry Pi Foundation is in a good position to do that.
What VM host software are you using? If it's VirtualBox, just install the guest additions and use it through there.
RDP is really a Microsoft-only protocol. It's better on Windows than VNC because AFAIK it's just sending draw calls across the wire. I'm not sure what XRDP does.
You may actually have a better experience on a Pi 2 or 3, because of the way Raspbian is set up to run by default.
I could also have used VNC but I much prefer the RDP experience, in particular being able to share the clipboard with the local machine and to copy text and files.
VirtualBox also does clipboard and file sharing, but only with the Guest Additions (only tested under a recent Ubuntu).
TeamViewer has a native linux build, which works well: https://www.teamviewer.com/en/download/linux/
Not sure why you'd want to use Wine.
It's much, much better than it was 10 years ago. You can even use C# these days! [1] [2] [3]
[1]: http://www.raspberry-sharp.org/
[2]: https://dotnet.github.io/
[3]: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/dotnet/corefxlab/master/de...
PS. and you can apparently use .NET on Linux anyway (Mono) - here's an example of interfacing with I2C sensors: http://blog.mshmelev.com/2013/06/connecting-raspberry-pi-and...
Your suggestion of Mono goes the right way, I think: using a familiar language in an unfamiliar environment could help with the initial confusion.
I also looked at commercial alternatives but I wanted it to call one of my web services and that's not what these IoT devices typically do.
FWIW, I think the Windows IOT that's made for RPi will be a big disappointment for most people - as the expectation would be "regular Windows, compatible with Anything and Everything, just running on RPi" versus the reality of "something that loosely resembles Windows, but severely limited". In this, I believe that it's better to dive into a Linux distro (the NOOBS one should make stuff easier) - there's a learning curve, but you're not getting sidetracked by the expectation of "runs on desktop Windows, why is it refusing to run here?"
I don't mean to be too snarky about it, but it's a different environment and you're complaining that it's not as easy as the one you're familiar with. "Intuitive" is difficult to quantify; the Windows interface has changed repeatedly in the 7 -> 8 -> 10 era while the basic command line interface hasn't, so once you learn it it's not likely to be obsoleted. There are Linux UIs with all of the stuff you mention - GNOME has always targeted that market.
.NET has its own versioning pain with the .NET frameworks across different versions of Windows. I think it will eventually become more popular on Linux, but only once trust of Microsoft has slowly been rebuilt. Having an open source System.Windows.Forms would help too.
(Professionally I'm a Windows CE developer at the moment, which is a little weird from a Linux background)
And a more than ideal system would give you the way to go from GUI to scripting easily. I.e. in any control panel you would have a button at the top that if you click, will make some command windows appear below the current window, which would show you the command line equivalent of anything that you do using the GUI.
I am not arguing against having a scriptable OS. I am saying that a GUI makes things a lot easier to understand intuitively, being able to observe the state of the system visually and making it clear what are all the possible options from a given point.
You should check out this link - production quality OpenSSH for Windows planned for H1 2016. https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/powershell/2015/10/19/opens...
The dedicated hardware uses a mixture of Flash and battery-backed SRAM to provide a crash- and powerloss-resistant transaction system.
I think that's basically where we're at and will continue to be at with desktop Linux because essentially the 'internal' problems are all solved now. Ubuntu boots and installs from a CD/USB in about seven clicks (all of which are either typing a name, language, or clicking forward).
A Linux user has no need to play around with RDP just as a Windows user has no need to play around with X11. I think it's unfair to expect mutual compatibility there.
If you're waiting for that, it will never happen, because effectively you're asking for Windows userspace running on the Linux kernel. A bit like asking for windows games on Linux - WINE exists, but native will always be better.
We generally use them for teaching but also sell them as kits.
PS. I picked them up today from Element14!
Do you ship to the US for cheap enough that it makes sense to pay for international shipping instead of just a more expensive device? Do any of the sellers that actually have current Pi devices in stock? The answer appears to be no.
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/processor-microcontroller-deve...
>31297 in stock
http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/processor-microcontroller-deve...
>In stock for delivery
> There's scope for something very powerful (almost PC-like) in the $70 price range. If I was starting a new venture today, this is where I'd aim.
There is very powerful project like Bunnie Huang's Novena [1], but just the board will cost $550.
[1] https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena
So the Raspberry Pi is four years old... (according to the article)
that will make setup even easier!
Not to mention that I2S sound is far less workload on the CPU than USB sound.
Oh, and why doesn't the Wifi/BT antenna have an SMA connector for external antennas, e.g. directional antennas?!
Last I read Raspberry Pi should allow for 5.1 hdmi passthrough or at least DTS.
Now if one could repurpose another 2 GPIO pins for bit-banging I2s... there are chips which support multichannel, see http://www.ti.com/lit/an/snla221/snla221.pdf page 5.
Sure you can recompile, but docker/sandstorm.io/etc type binary packages would be nice to run as-is.
also fast IO would be nice, one pcie lane or usb 3.0.
That would be awesome-er
This chipset is supported by the open-source brcmfmac driver is available from the brcm80211 module of the linux kernel package, maintained upstream by the linux kernel community (source https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Driver/bcm43xx)
Either way, it's not really that interesting since you cannot boot the Rapsberry Pi without proprietary blobs anyway. I guess the important thing is that it'll work out out the box.
The main stumbling block for the previous Pis was a lack of real-time OS e.g. RTLinux port.
This was discussed recently on Proggit recently https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/3zf04e/where_a... after I blogged about how I couldn't find a Pi robot kit to buy my kids last year: http://williamedwardscoder.tumblr.com/post/136598180858/wher...
We have them available shipping worldwide in our store! https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/raspberry-pi-3
Yes. The full recommendation reads "This time round, we’re recommending a 2.5A adapter if you want to connect power-hungry USB devices to the Raspberry Pi."
So I guess the assumption is the average person won't connect power-hungry USB devices to their Pi 3.
http://www.amazon.com/CanaKit-Raspberry-Supply-Adapter-Charg...
Strangely enough, one of the RPi2s I bought last week was DOA (wouldn't boot off a card that worked on an identical Pi2; red/green LEDs just stayed solid).. So, how convenient!
I prefer to buy a kit.
They list RPi 3 kit [1], but it's just list of old and new items, so it's not very clear.
[1] http://uk.farnell.com/buy-raspberry-pi?ICID=I-HP-LB-feb16-ra...
You need a MicroSD card at least 8GB in size, although larger is always nicer. Since it's the main storage for the device, faster is better.
An ethernet cable, if you don't plan on exclusively using wireless.
A case: the Pi3 is the same layout as the Pi2, so a previous-generation case will be fine.
An HDMI cable, if you won't be using it exclusively headlessly (or a cable with TRRS on one end and red+yellow+white RCA connections on the other end, if you're going the analog route).
A USB or bluetooth keyboard and mouse.
That would be my shopping list, if I didn't have those things laying around at home.