Ask YC: How many hours do you sleep on average ?

38 points by VinzO ↗ HN
Since years I tried to wake up earlier and reduce my sleep time. But it is a daily struggle for me. By reducing sleeping hours I hope to be able to do more everyday. I know that some people need only 4h sleep and they are full of energy. I wish I could do so but I usually need 8.5 hours. I would like to know how many hours you guys sleep and if you have some tips to reduce sleep time. Do you think we are "born" with a needed amount of sleep or can we change it? I am also interested to know at what time do you wake up every morning.

128 comments

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I find it depends on whats on my mind. Many times I will wake up earlier then I wanted and cannot get back to sleep because I start thinking of things I need/want to get done. Currently I probably get around 6 - 7, 8 would be a good sleep and 4 - 5 hours on a bad night... I wouldn't worry about it too much, even sleeping 9 hours leaves 15 hours for the day.
Different people do need different amounts of sleep, but also, the same people will need different amounts of sleep at different points in their life. Young children don't need as much. Teenagers need quite a bit because their body is growing rapidly. College level people through their 30s can usually get by with little sleep, then you need more as you get older.

I try and shoot for around 8 hours of sleep each night. You could argue that I could get more work done if I only got 5 or 6 hours, but the quality of the work would not be the same. I also find that going to bed at 11 and waking up at 7 is not the same for me as going to bed at 2 and waking up at 10.

Einstein and Donald Trump supposedly needed very little sleep which is why they could work so hard.

"Einstein and Donald Trump supposedly needed very little sleep which is why they could work so hard."

Interestingly, I read in a magazine from my country that Einstein slept at least 10 hours each day (and more if needed).

So, reading your statement, I decided to search more about this typing "einstein hours of sleep" using Google.

I found some links like:

"... while others have been known to require 8 to 10 hours (such as Albert Einstein)." - in http://webhome.idirect.com/~readon/sleep.html

"She points out that Albert Einstein sleep nine hours a night and was still able to get plenty done." - in http://evenstaronline.com/resources.html

"Einstein, on the other hand, demanded 10 hours of sleep every night for himself." - in http://www.quickiesheets.com/

I'm not sure if this is really true, but I do believe that a lot of hard work people can easily sleep during 10 hours.

Misdirection. If you accomplish enough when you're awake people will assume that you must not sleep.
I probably should have researched before posting that. I was just stating what I had heard from others. At least I qualified it with "supposedly." :)
>Young children don't need as much.

Um, yes they do, in fact they need more. Toddlers can sleep up to 14 hours a day, children up to 5 usually need 10-12.

Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't referring to infants and very young children, but those around 5-10. Children in the years you point out are growing significantly and of course need a good deal of sleep.
Studies have shown you need at least 8 hours of continuous sleep if you are on a traditional monophasic sleep schedule. Anything less and you start to accumulate "sleep debt" and performance decreases, among other things.

If you are very very serious about reducing total sleep time, you can attempt polyphasic sleep: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep

I recommend trying to find Why We Nap by Dr. Stampi. Its the only detailed research on the subject. Basically, dont trust much of the info about polyphasic sleep around the net as much of it is false.

Did you try polyphasic sleep yourself? I did a fast search, this book seems not so easy to find...
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I'm (sort of) doing it right now. Steve Pavlina's right, it's hard to integrate with the rest of the world (and he was self-employed with older children, and I work for the Man and have babies). I write about it sometimes on my blog - it's less instructive as an ideal case compared to Pavlina, but probably more inline with what a normal person could expect. I've got to say, if there's a lot of inflexible time requirements in life (day job, family, etc), polyphasic sleep is a great way to get some focus time to get in the zone. I've written more blog posts and more code since I restarted in earnest a couple weeks ago than I think I did in the 6 months before that. It really has given me a new sense of freedom to act.

http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/category/polyphasi...

Steve Pavlina: http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/ did polyphasic sleep for a while, and does a good job relating his experiences.

His conclusion: It sucks because life isn't set up for that sleep pattern.

How did you reach that conclusion from what he said? From what I remember he loved it while on it, and noted improvements in mood and concentration, in addition to having time for additional hobbies such as cooking.

He switched back to monophasic several months later so that he could spend more time with his family during their traditional awake hours. He also simply got bored of being awake when no one else was...

I was a little harsh I suppose, but here's what he says:

"The #1 reason I decided to call it quits is simply that the rest of the world is monophasic. If most of the world was polyphasic, I probably would have stuck with it. Obviously when you go polyphasic, you fall out of sync with the way other people live. You’re awake most of the night while everyone is asleep. If you sleep like most people, then the hours you’ll gain from polyphasic sleep will come in the middle of the night. And as I gradually learned, nighttime hours are not the same as daytime hours when you live in a monophasic world."

Sorry about the ad-hominem, but I think it's relevant to keep in mind that this is the guy that proposed that you could manifest one million dollars into your life just by declaring your intention everyday.
Well, last I heard he was making $40K/month and he had received valuations of $1-2M. Pav says some crazy stuff but it's usually backed up by his experiences.
there is not much practical advice in why we nap (which I recommend checking out from a library), but after reading it I realized how little research has been done on irregular sleeping patterns. I tried polyphasic for a while, but life is not setup for it, and you will be tired while trying to make the transitions- it takes an incredible amount of will power.

What I have found though is that you can sleep less at night if you take more naps during the day. Whether everyone can make a full transition to polyphasic is unclear. When I can manage, I sleep less than six hours at night and then take one or two 15 minute naps during the day.

Lucid dreaming is another approach to take to sleep- instead of avoiding sleep trying to be productive while sleeping. (inventor Ray Kurzweil does this)

> at least 8 hours of continuous sleep

You need as much sleep as leaves you alert and non-drowsy, even when bored. That's less than eight hours for me or any other adult I've lived with.

I actually tried polyphasic sleep for a while (6-7 weeks), and it was great after I adjusted. It was a little creepy being up all night, but I wrote a lot of code, and felt fine.

The only problem is the nap schedule makes it impossible to have any scheduled commitments. As soon as school started, I just couldn't keep up with the naps.

My advice: polyphasic sleep is great, IF you don't have any scheduled time commitments.

(If you're curious about polyphasic sleep, I suggest you try it. It's an interesting experience, regardless of whether or not it's practical.)

It is possible to power-nap ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_nap ) on public transport. Your timing has to be good but it will quickly improve with practice. Masters of the art are able to nap while standing on a train and wake shortly before their destination.
Rarely more than 9, rarely less than 6.
I usually sleep about 7 hours.
If you procrastinate your tasks, it means you sleep not enough. That's all.
How come? Can you explain?
i don't think he meant long term procrastination, but rather daily procrastination. if you stay in bed, then you may need more sleep in your week.

once i wake up, any additional sleep is usually meaningless, i find a nap after lunch to be of much better use to me.

I meant short time procrastination as an indicator of sleep deficit. It's the best indicator you sleep not enough. You should pay some bill today but you can't find enough energy to do it (you can also feel strong aversion to do it) so you move this task and three other tasks to the next day. Ask yourself if this already happened.

There are some techniques by ex. some very intensive buddhist meditations (you can't perform in normal daily life) which can help you slow down your metabolism and so also need for sleep and eat without impact on your health, or techniques how to wake up exactly at 7AM (it's the best time IMO) without alarm clock.

9 hours. But I can easily sleep up to 10 hours!

Anyway, I don't care about my time of sleep if I can be very focused in my work for several hours. And this does happen often (when I'm not reading News.YC, heh).

I believe there are enough hours to work each day if you are really focused in what you do and if you're really feeling rested with your sleep time.

I usually sleep 6-7 hrs, but I need 7.5 to be at my best. I wake up at 6:45 normally, 6:30 this morning to shovel snow.

If you are at your best after 8.5 hrs, listen to your body and don't try to reduce sleep time.

"6:30 this morning to shovel snow."

... and you guys were trying to convince us that the NE isn't so bad?;-)

Shoveling snow is my favorite chore. It's quiet, solitary, beautiful, moderately but not overly hard work outside.
...unless you live in Maine.
a shout from wisconsin on that. i like to shovel snow, but its even more fun to drive in it and to go sledding.
Shhh! If this gets out, the fitness industry is in BIG trouble. No machine, no matter how expensive, provides better exercise for the human body.

Oh, and you don't even need snow...

http://www.shovelglove.com/

The guy hailing from Innsbruck, Austria has a problem with snow? ;-)
You have to go at least 200-300 meters up to get some snow, there's none at all in town and really hasn't been for more than a day all winter:-/
I usually sleep 6.5 hours each night. I don't have a set "bedtime," but I'm awake every morning at 07h30.

One of the most important things that you can do is just get up, once your alarms rings don't hit snooze, just get up! It's easier once it becomes a habbit.

I usually drag myself out of bed with my blanket, turn on the kettle and do some stretching on the lounge floor. I drink tea, eat cereal and then I shower.

5-6 on weeknights, 7-8 on weekends. Wake-up time is all across the board, which is not a good thing, but I spend a lot of time in different time zones.
4-5 hours per day.
Have you always sleep that few?
No only recently, like the last 2 months. Before that 8 hours, before that, 12(when I didn't work).
Congratulations on the new baby. :-)
It doesn't work. You can't change the amount of sleep you need by any significant amount. If you consistently shortchange yourself by a small amount each night, you may be able to convince yourself that you're getting more done ... but you'll actually be less sharp, less productive, less healthy, and much less happy (seriously -- it has big effects on your mood).

Read a book like Maas's Power Sleep :

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Sleep-Revolutionary-Prepares-Per...

I'd recommend a better book but I don't know of one yet. I spend my time sleeping rather than hacking sleep.

You can tinker with when you sleep (using naps, etc.) to try and improve the quality of your sleep and adjust the times of day when you are most awake for maximum productivity. Just realize that you're basically rearranging your sleep and not magically reducing it.

If you can't find time to sleep the 8.5 hours that you need, you need to fix something else. Find a partner. Hire an assistant. Outsource. Prioritize. Postpone unimportant features. Get a better paying job with fewer hours. Play less World of Warcraft. Kill your television. Read David Allen or Tim Ferriss. Set noprocrast to numbers like "1024".

Excellent point. A while ago I was determined that sleeping less would make me more productive. Then I started actively paying attention to how much time I was wasting one way or another during the day (it wasn't anything obvious like playing WoW or watching too much TV).

One of the key things I discovered is the need to have a chunk of undisturbed time so I can really be productive. So I started going to work later in the morning (flexible schedule) and working more at night (guaranteed to have less distractions, even if you wanted to watch TV you can't find anything on).

Good point. Your body needs what it needs. You can self-medicate with caffeine or other stimulants to try and hack the system, but they end up cutting in to your next nights sleep.

As an ER nurse, I've worked nights for 14 years. And, for the last 5, I've gone completely caffeine free. I've felt better than I have in years. It's amazing how easy it is to get into a (sleep deprivation -> stimulant -> sleep deprivation) cycle. Why? Because caffeine stays in your system for 24-26 hours. So, that cup of coffee that you had yesterday is still in your system when you go to bed the next night. And, the caffeine is stimulating you while you sleep preventing you from getting the normal cycles/amounts of the stages of sleep that you'd be in normally.

It takes a few weeks to come down off the caffeine addiction, but after you do, you feel so much better.

~24 hours? Interesting. I've used coffee as a sleep aid: when I really need to go to sleep at X in order to get 8 hours before some important event, drinking coffee at 4 hours before X seems to help me sleep, due to the huge crash between 3 and 4 hours after the caffeine hits.
At least that's whay my Doc told me last time I saw him. Noodling around online, it seems that the half-life of caffeine can vary anywhere from 2-3 hours to 100 hours depending on the person, their metabolism and if they smoke or not.
I once read that there's a window of time between 11pm and 1am when your adrenals recharge most effectively. If you're not asleep during this window you miss the benefit and will tend to have higher levels of stress hormones. I used to have some moderate acne and I found that being in bed by 11 usually cleared it right up, which makes sense if you consider the link between hormones and acne.
Play less WoW? No way... get real.
I did polyphasic sleep. Three days. Got a stomach ache and colitis...

Don't recommend it.

I did it too. 3 or 4 days (can't remember). I couldn't fall asleep fast enough so I didn't sleep at all. Wasn't tired at all the last day but I stopped because I couldn't sleep. The result was some memory loss.
A buddy of mine did it for about a month.

He was continually out of it for the last two weeks. It if isn't for the faint of heart.

The first week is a $#%^$#^@$%@@#$% pain. The trick is to train yourself to fall asleep quickly (5-10 min). This takes tinkering (link below). Now, especially if I'm in one of my three comfort places (bed, couch, or car), I know can fall asleep in 5 minutes or so.

Another key is DON'T try to sleep for more than 30 minutes. The deeper you fall asleep, the harder it is to get up. If I snooze my alarm even once for 10 minutes, I'm probably going to be too asleep to bother getting up when that 10 minutes is over.

The good news is that my experience (Steve Pavlina echoes this) is that once you train your body to work on the schedule, then even if you revert to a normal schedule, you can switch back to polyphasic sleep without having to go through the painful first week again. Right now I sleep polyphasic 5-6 days a week and have 1-2 days a week where circumstances prevent me from napping during the day and I then take a full night's sleep at night. Interestingly, I feel terrible after the full night sleep but pretty darn alert during polyphasic sleep.

Here are some of my experiences:

http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/category/polyphasi...

http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/sleeping-in-your-c...

http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/what-happens-when-...

Agree with everything you said. I also think its easier to "ease" into the schedule. Keep a few hours of core sleep at night and still take your 30min naps every 4hrs until you feel like you're starting to get on the schedule. Then shrink and eventually eliminate the block of core sleep and you're there. Its never perfect, but at least it helps with the brutal agony of the adaptation period.

The biggest benefit of polyphasic is not squeezing every possible minute of awake time. Its the improved concentration and mood. If you want to leave 3-4hrs of core sleep at night thats perfectly fine.

In college, I experimented on myself to see how much I needed. I found that <5 hours over time led to bad things for me (hallucinating, shaking), and surprisingly that >7 made me groggier than anything in between 5 and 7.

So that's what I shoot for.

It doesn't seem to matter to me how much I sleep, I just feel like crap when I have to wake up early, and for me that's unfortunately any point before 8 in the morning. Sometimes I sleep 9 hours, sometimes 6... the only way to not feel crappy is to wake up at 9 in the morning.

Same goes for waking up after, say, 9:30 because then I feel guilty about wasting so much time.

I have a job and since I need to be there at 9, I have to wake up at 7:30, which means setting the alarm to 6:30 and snoozing for an hour.

Lately, about 4 hours a night. With a full night rest every 3 days or so.
5-6 hours a night, I use up until 12 or to work and then wind down for an hour or two playing games or watching a movie with my wife

I should be getting more, but there is just too much to do and not enough time to do it all in.

8:30-9 commute, 9-5 work, 5-6 commute, dinner, then work again on my startup, then some games for the icing on the days cake.

9 hours. It seems to correlate with the intellectual demands of whatever I'm working on at the time. If I'm learning a new technology or working on a thorny design issue, it can be as much as 11 hours a night. If I'm cranking out code for something I know how to do in my sleep (no pun intended), as little as 8.

I also noticed a big correlation when I was doing math competitions in high school. 9 hours or more of sleep and I could usually get a perfect score without too much trouble. 6 hours or less tended to cut my score in half.

For that reason, I try to avoid shortchanging sleep. I figure something important's going on upstairs, and I don't know exactly what it is but if it's missing, it costs more in productivity than it gains in time.

I've read that the amount of sleep people require varies a lot from person-to-person...I know some people can get by 3-4 hours a night, but I always feel like shit if I try that. Can't concentrate, wake up with an upset stomach, can't sit down to work. If I have 4 hours of sleep the next day is essentially wasted for me, I might as well have just pulled an all-nighter and gone to bed early the next day.

I think it also varies by events. An exciting project that's nearing crunch time can get me running on just a few hours, the eyes snap open at 6:15 and life is fun (or...) til 2am. But don't try to keep running at that pace more than a few weeks if that long.
6-7 hours.

i find the trick is to sleep, whenever you are tired, take naps, and don't try to fight it. don't use alarm clocks, and don't lie in bed. you should either be asleep or awake, but don't lie in bed trying to decide. i also found that having a bedroom face east, does wonders for your biological clock and keeping it really regular.

I used to brag about how little sleep I've gotten, but lately I've seen that as much more of a short-coming. I've been able to measure my productivity on weeks where I've had good nights' sleep and weeks where I haven't, and even though I maybe work more with less sleep, I accomplish much less.
About 8-9 hours. I strive to sleep enough, and have noticed that trying to cut on sleeping does not work for me. I can sleep even longer, especially if I don't have any interesting/urgent tasks to accomplish.
6hrs - 7A

Something that got engrained in me, is that you tell yourself what time you are going to wake up, and then you make it standard, 7 days a week. Your body will adjust quickly and you will be tired when you need to be tired. Also sleep in 90 minute cycles, so I go to bed around 1A every night. if you still feel really tired during the day, take a nap < 20mins.

I typically get 6-7 a night. If I'm going to be tired it's usually during the day; inevitably, even without much sleep (or coffee), I really wake up around 11pm
7-8 hrs