Not too surprising. PHPixie spams /r/php like crazy. Trying to ride the huge success that Laravel has experienced except they are skipping the steps of having a solid product or a strong community.
I'm not surprised, the author been spamming reddit about his framework for years. He has a really bad reputation in /r/PHP. At the same time I've never seen any projects using this framework.
I don't know this person, but between the multiple reports of sockpuppeting in the post and, well, that, I'm not encouraged.
(Edit: Hi Dan. Good to see you, as always. I'm out of my HN rabbit pellet comment quota and cannot reply to you, as you intend. Consider whether this turned into a nonviolent demonstration of something I feel that you should address and that perhaps it is not me that you should be chastising, or just ban me and get it overwith for calling out sexism both in the unrelated community and this one. Since your play here was to go after me for rather intentionally attacking a systemic problem here that this community somewhat unapologetically perpetuates and that you are lightly acknowledging, perhaps that tells me what I need to know about your opinion on this and how you plan to fix it over time. In which case a ban would be a relief and finally communicate to me after about seven years on different accounts that Y Combinator and Hacker News give absolutely zero fucks about exclusionary content, behavior, or people.
My bad for not staying on topic about a completely irrelevant sockpuppeteer in the PHP community. I'll do better about the purity of staying on topic, because it's clearly driving a substantive conversation upthread. Perhaps we can discuss how this would be implemented in Arc, or would you change the rules mid-conversation? Happy to e-mail with you about this again until I start making too much sense and you don't reply.)
There's an argument? And I'm trying to win? I'm just disappointed to see casual sexism like that in the wild given how widespread it is in the industry, and it's not exactly getting me on his side.
It was right there, like two tweets ago from following the post's backstory. It's not like I drudged up ancient history on this guy, and I certainly wasn't trying to look nor assassinate anybody.
Sorry, when I read this, for some reason, I thought you were saying the author of this article was the guy posting this, and that because he had posted a sexist tweet, his proof that PHPixie was a fraud was invalid.
Given that HN reacted to a lamenting of an unfunny, sexist joke by (a) explaining it's a joke to me to apologize for the content, (b) reacting to a punch down joke by punching up with another joke to "balance the scales" (itself ironic given the imbalance I'm decrying), (c) casting my remarks as character assassination to apologize for the content, (d) implying that I need to "feel better" for calling out casual sexism, and (e) explaining that an offensive stereotype of women is "not particularly offensive" I think I'm pretty satisfied that I've contributed what I can and now I'll wait for this thread to be a slide in someone's deck.
I feel fine and this is one of those cases where I know I'm right, I'm comfortably on the correct side of this, and I do not require external validation. If you find yourself reacting negatively to what I've written, you should consider whether you're part of the problem as well. (Hint: Probably.)
> I feel fine and this is one of those cases where I know I'm right
Please come down from your high horse. Seriously, as someone who has actually been bullied a bit, calling this sexism seems like a giant misunderstanding.
I agree to an extent, but was taking a deliberately condescending tone because "I hunted through twitter and found something unrelated to get offended by" didn't strike me as being a useful debate to bring in here. But I probably should have communicated that in a less passive-agressive way.
The gender stereotype it's exaggerating is not only that women talk too much, but that their talking is pointless and uninteresting. As gender stereotypes go, it's actually pretty far up the offensiveness list.
I took it as a joke about "women want to talk / empathize about the problem they're having, not talk about how you'd fix it." Which can be true in social contexts, but is totally absurd to apply to a sinking ship, hence the humor.
But it's 100% possible that I'm reading too much into it and the joke was just "Haha women talk a lot about pointless things," in which case yeah, I probably wouldn't have laughed.
From another less popular angle, "Men are worth less than women and children and thus don't get to be on a lifeboat". See now everyone gets to be offended.
The others do not need your support and are just as wrong as you, and there is no "scale" of sexism. You are apologizing for it by calling it "fun," and there is no "real" sexism. There is only sexism, and identifying when we do it casually is just as important as fighting against the "obvious" cases.
I am very, very scared given that I'm about as indifferent to progressivism as it gets and I'm apparently too progressive for this thread. I'm never that guy who does this in public and I decided to try the waters of calling out something quite apparent, and this is how it's going. People are rallying to support each other and call me wrong. That really, really scares me and does not bode well.
No one is apologizing for shit, because there is nothing to apologize for. That's the response you've been getting. If you want to see what apologizing for content looks like, take note of defenders of e.g. Linus' asshole remarks that say "yeah he's an asshole but he's really necessary and good for the kernel!". In order to be an apology there must be an admission of wrongdoing.
We make all kinds of jokes about our neighbouring countries but it doesn't mean we don't respect them. Just recently I discussed it with one of them to try to figure out who made most jokes about who and we both laughed at it.
Same with jokes about men and women: if this joke is a problem, never ever come to work in Scandinavia. Both for your own sake but also because we enjoy laughing once in a while.
Not everything should be destroyed because Social Justice (TM).
It's certainly distasteful. I'm not one to jump on the labeling everything sexism boat, but that is certainly not the kind of tweet that would make me want to follow him.
It seems a lot of people around here cannot see the difference between wild funny hyberbole and snide remarks.
This should be a problem on those people's end, not a problem for the rest of us.
Point-in-case: if I was to be offended everytime people was disrespectful about my views around here and in certain other forums it would be a full time job. Instead I ignore it (since its offtopic anyway, or laugh at it because it can be funny even if I'm on the receiving end.)
I'm not, depressingly. Once my first comment hit -3 in as many minutes I knew it would go this way, because there are a lot of people here who want to whitewash things like this, apologize for them, and hold their hands up like the Iraqi Information Minister and explain what they consider sexism and how nothing they see qualifies. I'm satisfied being correct on this one and this thread just communicates something about Hacker News to me that I already suspected. (It's not good.)
Watching both camps fight over my comments' scores is even more depressing. I really wish I had the foresight to graph it, because there is some carpetbombing going on and it only proves my point.
I think you are generally right (might argue a few things but at this point wouldn't help the discussion) but you may need to work on your tone. Just a friendly advice.
More friendly advice: if you generally think hn is a great place to hang around then think twice before announcing that the majority of of the voters here a stupid sexists. Maybe you missed some nuance? Maybe your cultural background isn't as universal as you would like to think?
As mentioned elsewhere we are a lot of people from a lot of places. What is offending to me isn't necessarily to you. The opposite is also true.
Please don't import shallow, inflammatory, off-topic material from elsewhere into HN. We have enough of a problem with the home-grown stuff.
Having done that, you made it worse by perpetuating drama and taking the thread even further off topic. There's nothing substantive here, so please stop and don't do it again.
I don't follow the PHP crowd but this is... I don't know. An ego play for this individual? I'm trying to figure out what he has to gain other than a pat on the back.
He's allegedly inflated his usage numbers in order to secure/sustain membership in the PHP-FIG. There are several high-profile projects in the group, so I imagine getting your project listed as a member adds some prestige and is good for resume building.
IF all his fun and games worked he could have owned a popular framework, sometimes that works out to be very valuable. Lots of people and companies have considered that enough justification to shill HN in the past.
It's not something that I regard as a problem, but I did notice in passing and added 50 downloads to a few of my images on evening to test the concept.
There's large-scale fraud by the Apache Groovy ecosystem also. Downloads from the Bintray repository mostly come as redirects from the groovy-lang.org website hosted somewhere in Germany, and the owner of that domain has a history of fabricating download numbers and gaming popularity rankings, so I suspect the "over 1 million downloads a month" claim is similarly fraudulent, though by what degree is anyone's guess.
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 104 ms ] threadI don't know this person, but between the multiple reports of sockpuppeting in the post and, well, that, I'm not encouraged.
(Edit: Hi Dan. Good to see you, as always. I'm out of my HN rabbit pellet comment quota and cannot reply to you, as you intend. Consider whether this turned into a nonviolent demonstration of something I feel that you should address and that perhaps it is not me that you should be chastising, or just ban me and get it overwith for calling out sexism both in the unrelated community and this one. Since your play here was to go after me for rather intentionally attacking a systemic problem here that this community somewhat unapologetically perpetuates and that you are lightly acknowledging, perhaps that tells me what I need to know about your opinion on this and how you plan to fix it over time. In which case a ban would be a relief and finally communicate to me after about seven years on different accounts that Y Combinator and Hacker News give absolutely zero fucks about exclusionary content, behavior, or people.
My bad for not staying on topic about a completely irrelevant sockpuppeteer in the PHP community. I'll do better about the purity of staying on topic, because it's clearly driving a substantive conversation upthread. Perhaps we can discuss how this would be implemented in Arc, or would you change the rules mid-conversation? Happy to e-mail with you about this again until I start making too much sense and you don't reply.)
It was right there, like two tweets ago from following the post's backstory. It's not like I drudged up ancient history on this guy, and I certainly wasn't trying to look nor assassinate anybody.
Here's another one to balance the scales: How many men does it take to screw in a light bulb? Just one, but you'll have to ask him 50 times.
Feel better now?
I feel fine and this is one of those cases where I know I'm right, I'm comfortably on the correct side of this, and I do not require external validation. If you find yourself reacting negatively to what I've written, you should consider whether you're part of the problem as well. (Hint: Probably.)
Please come down from your high horse. Seriously, as someone who has actually been bullied a bit, calling this sexism seems like a giant misunderstanding.
But it's 100% possible that I'm reading too much into it and the joke was just "Haha women talk a lot about pointless things," in which case yeah, I probably wouldn't have laughed.
Calling everything sexism just destroys the debate. There is a lot of real sexism to fight against, no reason to rail against a light-hearted tweet.
I am very, very scared given that I'm about as indifferent to progressivism as it gets and I'm apparently too progressive for this thread. I'm never that guy who does this in public and I decided to try the waters of calling out something quite apparent, and this is how it's going. People are rallying to support each other and call me wrong. That really, really scares me and does not bode well.
> There is only sexism, and identifying when we do it casually is just as important as fighting against the "obvious" cases.
I think a different term for it would be derailing. You do it by targeting an unrelated question rooted in facts you might find in the original topic.
We make all kinds of jokes about our neighbouring countries but it doesn't mean we don't respect them. Just recently I discussed it with one of them to try to figure out who made most jokes about who and we both laughed at it.
Same with jokes about men and women: if this joke is a problem, never ever come to work in Scandinavia. Both for your own sake but also because we enjoy laughing once in a while.
Not everything should be destroyed because Social Justice (TM).
It seems a lot of people around here cannot see the difference between wild funny hyberbole and snide remarks.
This should be a problem on those people's end, not a problem for the rest of us.
Point-in-case: if I was to be offended everytime people was disrespectful about my views around here and in certain other forums it would be a full time job. Instead I ignore it (since its offtopic anyway, or laugh at it because it can be funny even if I'm on the receiving end.)
I'm not saying he shouldn't say it. I'm not telling him how to live his life. I'm just saying I didn't like what was said.
Watching both camps fight over my comments' scores is even more depressing. I really wish I had the foresight to graph it, because there is some carpetbombing going on and it only proves my point.
As mentioned elsewhere we are a lot of people from a lot of places. What is offending to me isn't necessarily to you. The opposite is also true.
I won't talk too much about me but be glad I and others don't care about getting offended over every comment that hits people like me ;-)
Having done that, you made it worse by perpetuating drama and taking the thread even further off topic. There's nothing substantive here, so please stop and don't do it again.
PHP-FIG: http://www.php-fig.org/
Could you please care to explain why?
Rot in hell, Marc Fleury
The biggest download count becomes the most popular image, and you can script it trivially:
It's not something that I regard as a problem, but I did notice in passing and added 50 downloads to a few of my images on evening to test the concept.[1] http://gavingroovygrover.tumblr.com/post/131337969066/groovy...