I once dreamed of immigrating to the US and working in the Bay Area... but it's become apparent to me now that there's something inherently wrong with that country. I guess I'll go to Australia or Canada instead.
You can self sponsor with this https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/189- bit of mucking about to get but once you have it you can work for any company. Otherwise company will need a company to sponsor you on https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Visa-1/457- which is not hard to get but does limit the companies you can work for as not all will know how to do it.
https://www.border.gov.au/. I don't know the details of the process though - I am a New Zealander, and I get right of residence automatically. There is always New Zealand of course, so you can live and travel between the two countries without hindrance once you get a passport in either.
NZ badly needs a tech scene. It has not produced anything of note like Atlassian in Australia. But the lifestyle is great. Only two time zones from the Australian east coast.
I checked both AUS & NZ and despite the fact I can get in there through the company I work for, it does not seem easy or 'we need all the skilled people we can get'. The process seems not very easy in either country. I will live in AUS probably starting next year to manage the tech side from there and I will definitely check out NZ and maybe skip to there if possible as, for some reason (never been) it attracts me more. That said; I often need to go to China which is easy from AUS; I did not check how it is from NZ.
You got it. Immigration is a decision that will not only affect me but also my better half, my family, and my offspring. It's totally about the environment, the society.
I immigrated here from the U.S. and the only contact I have with the "government" is my annual tax filing.
Where previously I had nearly 6-monthly encounters with police just for (I guess) being a black/Muslim man. "Random" traffic stops escalating to inquiries into everything about my life.
Long live Australia.
[Edit: I DO routinely run into my neighborhood Australian police on Fridays, that's because we frequent the same local bar and catch up for drinks and games of pool.]
Well... on the one hand, 50% of Canadians live south of Portland OR. On the other, the Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal corridor that contains most of those people is notable for sever swings in temperature. I lived a little ways northeast of Toronto for a few years, and survived temps of -20 and 38 C.
Very happy to be back out west (especially with the glorious weather we've been having this month).
Well, you're much more likely to be killed in a car accident wherever you live, and I don't have reason to believe that risk is particularly different in Canada or Australia. It's the delta between countries that matters, and from what I've read (mostly about Canada) I think by most metrics you are more likely to be killed by a cop in the States. We have a heavily armed and militarized police force here, and they have an awful relationship with many communities here. I'm sure there are parallels in Canada and Australia but certainly the popular perception is that the magnitude of the problem is larger here.
Killed isn't the only thing that a dopey police officer can cause. I remember another harrowing story of someone trying to help at a biking accident ending up in solitary confinement with breathing issues for two days.
google santa clara county jail, and see how many people they killed last year.. and only one of those murders was investigated and 3 guards are on trial. all others are written off.. mentally handicapped inmates with no family, easy target for sadist guards.. and no accountability.
Given that our GDP per capita is 1.25x US I think that we're about even. Also as someone moving from Melbourne to the SF Bay, there are areas within each country that are very far apart. Melbourne is far cheaper than the SF bay.
"New South Wales police are on the verge of securing “extreme” new powers including to impose curfews on citizens, restrict who they spend time with or limit their communications, if they suspect involvement in “serious crime-related activity”.
The new “serious crime prevention orders” (SCPO) are similar to the control orders used on suspected terrorists, but broadened to a range of other offences including theft, tax evasion, money laundering or homicide.
Those acquitted of serious offences can still be issued a SCPO, as will people deemed to have engaged in conduct “likely to facilitate” a serious crime, defined as one punishable by at least five years’ prison."
> theft, tax evasion, money laundering or homicide.
What the actual fuck? This is despicable no matter what. They just have to be "suspected" to be subject to these insane powers?
But, the real insanity is that a crime like tax evasion is included in this list. Seriously. Tax evasion? Now, I know that the thing these all have in common is that they're commonly purpetrated by the mob and all, but tax evasion just doesn't rise to the level of homicide or even money laundering.
You don't want tax evaders out after 9pm, prowling around and evading taxes in the shadows, do you? Actually, I suspect the tax evasion and money laundering are mostly referring to drug-related crime without calling it out explicitly and arousing (more) controversy.
WE need an independent committee against corruption, that is completely independent of the FBI and law enforcement agencies, directly accountable to the President of the United States.
Wow, I am really looking forward to finding g out more about this. What agency were they with? How often do they do this? Was it random or targeted, and if the latter at the person or device?
Side note - he wasn't arrested, he was handcuffed, had a weapon stuck in his back, was detained, had an illegal search performed on his possessions, and all by purported law enforcement officers who refused to identify themselves. In many ways this is worse than being arrested - with an arrest there are other layers of law enforcement to appeal to and receive justice. With an arrest at least we would have officers names, charges, etc, which if faked could theoretically result in discipline or firing of the officer. I know it doesn't always work that way, but at least the checks and balances exist.
With this kind of officer-level illegal search and detainment, there is very very little that can be done to seek any sort of justice. If this kids mom wasn't a reporter, nobody would have heard or believed the story.
Jaded guess; still in the guise of the 'buyer' they asked if they could look through the machine. He gave verbal consent at which point they started the search / threat / handcuffing.
They still need to identify themselves as the police. What they displayed is mob behavior; armed people threatening and going through a person's possessions.
There's no need for an undercover officer to identify themselves as such. They're free to lie and manipulate (to an extent). It would kind of defeat the purpose otherwise.
There's definitely a need if they intend to wield their authority as a police officer. Random people on the street can't just come up and handcuff me and go through my stuff.
Side note - he wasn't arrested, he was handcuffed, had a weapon stuck in his back, was detained, had an illegal search performed on his possessions, and all by purported law enforcement officers who refused to identify themselves.
I have some news for you. Arrest means nothing but detained/held/stopped. Most people imagine an arrest action has something formal to it, like having your rights read or someone announcing you're arrested. But it doesn't. You've been detained? You have been arrested. The cops zero obligation to tell you anything and they never have had such obligation.
As to whether it was illegal? The police have wide latitude to determine probable cause for whatever. You're right this kind of thing happens all the time, you're right it's despicable. But sadly, it's broadly legal and more or less the "normal" way the law works.
If you read the wikipedia article, it describes rights but you will notice the only limits in the US is how long you can be held and whether your statements can held against you (at which point you are supposed to be read you're right, except for limitless exceptions to this requirement).
<The police have wide latitude to determine probable cause for whatever>
No, they have wide latitude to try to claim probable cause but cannot create probable cause out of thin air. If a court later decides there was none, the evidence is tossed anyway (and permanently tainted).
Police are indeed prohibited from claiming probable cause based on no evidence at all but no-evidence-at-all is about the only no-no. A wide variety of vague actions can be taken as evidence, such "acting nervous", not seeming like you belong in a location, reaching into one's pocket, moving quickly, etc, etc.
I'm not so sure he wasn't arrested, legally speaking. If he had resisted I certainly suspect he'd have been charged with resisting arrest. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/arrest
I've been arrested under similar (in other words completely unfounded) conditions. After a few hours in a holding cell they just handed me a form and drove me back home. I wish I remembered the name of the form but it essentially nullified the arrest as if none had taken place.
However from what I've read on this story it sounds as though the young man was simply detained pursuant to an investigation (or at least that would be the official story).
Resisting arrest means you haven't been arrested yet. If he was already under arrest then he couldn't resist it. He was being detained. If he were under arrest then there's procedure to that which has to be followed. But while being detained if one were to be argumentative then it could change from being detained to being under arrest, which then resisting arrest comes into play.
But that's just arguing over semantics that typically don't come up at the court hearing. People get charged with non-relevant crap all the time to trump up the charges.
She knows half of the story, as mentioned. The buyer is unknown and probably has vital info. He likely contacted police thinking that her son was selling his stolen laptop on craigslist?
> With this kind of officer-level illegal search and detainment, there is very very little that can be done to seek any sort of justice. If this kids mom wasn't a reporter, nobody would have heard or believed the story.
Where's the mythical "good guy with a gun" when you need one?
OSSIC X headphone started one and some Kickstarter campaigns I have no backing on their products, a few amazing technology they can do. Rarely seen startup tech in Singapore.
I would say that as an example, in most European countries the relationship between police and citizens is a lot more civilized. But them again this is my impression not sure if it's based on facts. I would sure consider this if I was planing to travel to the US.
It's very disturbing to me that there are any qualifiers that could make that statistic acceptable. It's like explaining the FISA court's approval rate.
In the US you can have your cake and eat it too: get shot by cops and have to plead guilty to avoid spending a huge chunk of your life in jail in favor of spending a slightly smaller chunk of your life in jail. America's the greatest country in the world (when it comes to injustice by the numbers).
It's extremely different. That 93% figure is limited to federal criminal cases. The vast majority of offenses are state and local. This same wikipedia article says, "In recent years, the conviction rate has averaged approximately 84% in Texas, 82% in California, 72% in New York, 67% in North Carolina, and 59% in Florida."
So, you're talking anywhere from (roughly) seven times as frequent acquittals to over 40 times as many.
This is mostly down to how your standard police don't have any firearms at all. So you could say things are at least a few places elsewhere a little different.
This whole thing seems a little fishy. It supposedly happened on Friday and the only news article I could find about it didn't have any independent verification.
Yes. Cuffs "cut his hands". They apparently sold the laptop with the evidence. Gun "in his back".I hate cops more than these geeks but even I can figure out BS. The "buyer" blamed it on the police but sounds like he wasn't a cop? Why? ycombinator is a sharpish crowd but they tend to not underestimate how many random liars there are. Thats why this account has a -1 score.
Seriously? You're really willing to make that comment? After George just tried to auction off the gun he used to kill Trayvon? Even after he's had multiple run ins with the law due to gun violence since he killed Trayvon? Really?
I don't know why I stick my neck out to engage with people like you about topics like this, on a forum like this, but what the hell is wrong with you? You were worried about the authorities kidnapping and holding someone at gunpoint (sans an arrest, that's exactly what happened) but the second the mom references another person of color who was possibly wasn't served justice, you just don't care anymore?
Is that really what you're saying? Or is there some nuance here I'm missing?
edit: I'm genuinely sorry I said anything; I should have ignored it and I won't be replying further.
It's probably because like many "reporters" at Daily Beast, she apparently has an agenda to push. Why not just report the story, complete with facts like where exactly it happened, and maybe at least one interview with a witness on this "busy street".
Interesting how the story became standardized in the tail. Sure, an issue here and there, but the last few lines about donating to a charity; it reduced the impact.
Same here. What happened to her son is terrible and I hope she gets justice. But people should also know that the Trayvon Martin Foundation has not adequately reported their financials as they are legally obligated to do. Currently, while unsubstantiated (because nobody knows), it's been stated in several places that the Foundation is being used as a funnel for money directly to Trayvon's family personally, without any uses that correspond to the Foundation's stated purposes. Since they've failed to properly file their Form 990 with the IRS, there's no public record of their finances.
I understand why the incident could have resonated with Ms. Taylor, but I also think as a journalist she has a responsibility to not promote an organization which is flagrantly failing to follow the law around nonprofits. Instead Ms. Taylor could have promoted several other charities with better track records if she felt this was the proper moment and venue to use to promote charities focused on civil rights. For instance [1][2][3][4] all received 5 star ratings on Charity Navigator and have purposes in line with those stated for the Trayvon Martin Foundation.
This sounds far more like a robbery or mistaken-identity case (or a theft victim thinking that the subject was himself a thief of that person's property).
There is nothing about this indicative of actual police procedure. Craigslist-originated robberies are fairly common in urban U.S. CL regions.
In any case, there are contradictions in her account. For one, she expresses concern about his "personal files" being probed, copied and taken (with no indication why any would be of any interest to any level of law enforcement), yet this was a computer he was selling to a complete stranger as it was -- why would any personal files of any value or vulnerability be left on it in the first place?
So the subtext here is that the cops are racist, right? How would the police know the seller of the Macbook was black from the Craigslist post?
How did her son know it was a weapon pressed against his back?
How could the handcuffs possibly have cut his wrists? Handcuffs don't have, like, blades on them that just cut you as they're hanging off your wrists. Seems like something added to punch-up the narrative.
And then tag it with a couple "Trayvon" mentions at the end. This screams "hoax" to me.
did u ever have handcuffs put on you? i did and trust me, they cut into your wrists just like blades. and the cops don't hesitate to tighten them up and humiliate you with pain. and i am white. your ignorance might catch up with you, but it might be too late for you then.
Healthy skepticism is useful, but if you think that the editor-at-large of a well known U.S. media publication would conduct a public hoax involving her son, well, you do you.
As the above poster mentioned, skepticism is fine, but I think you need to be careful not to fall prey to turing speculation into evidence, and also considering all possible scenarios/outcomes instead of just those that point towards your conclusion.
What I mean by the second part is when you come up with a reason to question a claim, that doesn't automatically weaken or invalidate the claim. Your first contention is basically "how can it be racism from just a craigslist posting?", that is, how did the assailants know he was black? Well, it's possible the assailants became more aggressive at the time of the meeting, after seeing the seller was black. Or perhaps the seller included a name more common with people of color. This is not suggesting that either absolutely is the case, but they are both likely and not uncommon scenarios in the present day. If you're going to begin speculation in this manner, it is only fair and reasonable to consider how your conclusion might also be falsified, considering alternate and equally plausible scenarios.
Or in the case of the cuffs, for which your comment seems to rely more on a rather dismissive statement of ignorance - cuffs certainly can and do cut and tear into skin when not used properly. Just do a quick image search for "injuries from handcuffs" (warning, some images on this search are nsfw and unpleasant) and it's plain enough to see multiple examples of damage from handcuffs, whether it be bruises or lacerations - it's fairly hard metal tightened hard around a fragile point on the human body. It's not hard to imagine how that could do damage or how bad the damage could be when used improperly (Intentionally or not). Yes, it is important to get this verified (a picture from the author would do nicely), but the basis of your skepticism is not really set in reality, but seemingly in raw skepticism.
The point I'm trying to make is that it is good to withhold judgement, but the attitude and the questions you raise really aren't sound, and instead appear almost vindictive.
Be skeptical, but part of that requires being a bit dispassionate and openly considering reasonable possibilities. It does not mean building up speculation as the foundation for a conclusion. It is possible this is a hoax, as you say. But to suggest it "screams" hoax is inaccurate.
Her son being misinformed, assuming that was true, is not a hoax. By definition, a hoax is an intentional deception. You claiming that it is a hoax explicitly means you think there's an intent to mislead on the part of the editor.
I used to have a healthy sense of "surely we have gotten over that racism stuff"... when I was a teenager.
You can't know it is a weapon. It is on your back. I've never been handcuffed, but they can hurt.
I have, however, been surrounded by cops taking folks home. Some friends of the dude I was dating, and we happen to have different skin colors. 4-5 cop cars, lights, drug dogs in a small public housing parking lot. I start getting questioned about drugs, and expected me to know a lot about my passengers. "People have been doing crack here, and we've found out white people are doing it too". I was let go, and to this day I hope those dudes were ok.
I've been pulled over for swerving after a lane change. Dude said we were drunk, even after we passed the breath test. It was late, we were driving around talking, but happened to be in a mostly poor, african-american part of town and we weren't. Her baby was mixed, though. It worked, we called it a night simply because of harassment.
Had guns out once with lots of cops. I'm still not sure what I did wrong. The park closed at 11, but since it was getting dark a parks department employee asked us to leave (but not the other people). Down the road we were surrounded, guns out.
The point is that there are a LOT of these sorts of stories, and it has taken a few killing with news coverage for them to finally - 20, 30, 40 years later - for anyone to start doing anything about them.
I was lucky enough to get out of my fear of the police because I've since moved. Racism exists everywhere, but not everywhere will tolerate it from their police department. When I'm out walking home at 2am here, I'm no longer afraid of the police. I won't even get stopped asking what I'm doing out, why i'm in a neighborhood, etc. So long as I'm just walking along, everything is good... and i'm in a city of 180k people.
I hope she and her son get justice. Theres another story here somewhere. Those agents were looking for someone specific. Perhaps even a specific macbook. Who? Why?
i got arrested, jailed and beaten by police after calling them to help me with a car accident resolution. 4 month and $15000 spent on lawyers later they are still trying to frame me although by now all blood results show that i wasn't under the influence. and the beating, they claim it never happened and are not releasing the surveillance video of the beating. and it happened in my community into which i pay over $100k in taxes, annually. i was treated like an animal, and nobody cares since they don't believe it can happen to them. and i am white, although a european with an accent. the jail i was beaten in had 8 suspicious inmate deaths just last year, only one of them is a confirmed killing by police and 3 guards are being sued. all other deaths are written off, since the killed inmates don't have family and nobody cares to dig.
Yikes. When I read your first post, I just assumed this to have happened in some rural area in a less popular state or something, certainly not in silicon valley of all places. That hits a bit too close to home for comfort to say the least.
its a parallel universe, right in front of us. its disgusting what the executive branch gets away with. When you do a little research and see what is happening there right now and how there is no accountability its paralyzing. After my arrest, there has been at least 2 murders by guards. Both unaccounted for as far as i see. One person they claim died of pre-existing condition. When i was in that jail, they blatantly refused to give me my medications. And it seemed like a norm. A second was an alzheimer person. They refused to release him to his family after the judge ordered release. They made the family wait for hours, then lied to them ( or confused ) and told them he was released already. Family rushed to streets to look for him. The sick man was released at 6AM finally. Family was on the streets looking for him for hours by then. An hour later he walked onto a freeway and got killed by a car. His crime was creating a scene at a local synagogue due to his illness. As far as i can see, all it deserved was an article in a local newspaper. And thats the norm here.
Your fist mistake is expecting anyone in America to care about your suffering. Your second mistake is not realizing that the cops don't give a shit about your money or your color once they've targeted you. Yes, they certainly do prefer to target individuals of color because that's been their primary objective in this country for its entire existence and before it was even founded as a country. But make no mistake about it; they will target you, they will beat you, they will kill you if they so like. And they will get away with it and probably with some additional vacation (paid leave) during the investigation.
This is the price we have to pay to keep oppressing blacks, latinos, Muslims, and whomever the undesirable group of the month might happen to be. Your third mistake was underestimating the cowardice of Americans especially the cowardice and fear of white America towards blacks, Hispanics, and recently Muslims. Americans have given up most of their freedoms in exchange for a brutal, oppressive police force whose sole purpose is oppression, racism, and cruelty. What happened to you is totally fucked up, but if you think paying $100k in taxes makes you immune or somehow protected from this brutal oppression machine, you simply do not understand the forces at play here in America.
i lived here for 15 years and slowly its catching up with me. lack of accountability can be encountered in any country. in europe, in the african countries and especially in the middle east. but i was able to keep my idealistic view of america so far and now its crumbling. the guards arresting and beating me were white, hispanic, asian and i believe at least one was black. the guards on trial for the latest murder in jail are white, hispanic and asian. i don't think its race, its more about the executive branch to be out of control and broken checks and balances when it comes to the executive branch. hard not to take it personally of course, sure feels like i overstayed my welcome here.
Your fist mistake is expecting anyone in America to care about your suffering.
There you are wrong, starting with e.g. reporter Radley Blako and his readers, and extending to large swaths of the white or thereabouts population who buy books like Arrest-Proof Yourself (http://www.amazon.com/Arrest-Proof-Yourself-Dale-C-Carson/dp...) This was reified for me in ~2008 when a local cop played a game of chicken with his car and my body.
Some of it is that the author lives in Santa Clara County, California as mentioned in another comment. Citizens in Bay Area counties are allowed to own (some types of) guns, but by and large not to carry them, and that appears to help the Badge Gang feel they can treat nearly the entire populace as their playthings.
Take that too far in my part of the country, a combo of Greater Appalachia and the cultural South, and the calculus changes rather a lot. And in my county, when I last renewed my concealed carry permit, 5% of the age eligible population had one, and gun ownership is not quite ubiquitous, but extremely common and steadily increasing. And many of the cops are on our side; can you imagine a Santa Clara County law enforcement public affairs type confirming that a woman had an "absolute right" to use lethal force against some home invaders?
I too had a cop play chicken with me in his SUV while I was peacefully standing on the sidewalk. I'm not surprised to find out it's happened to someone else. There were actually at least a dozen people there. Anyone else would have been charged with attempted murder. For the cop, it was just another day at the office.
Radley Balko is one brave writer, that's for sure. But even he's just going to write about the atrocities here after the fact. Maybe what I should have written is not that no one cares, but that very few people do, and they cannot change anything. Even Balko does not realize the full extent of the problem of living in a police state like this, probably because he doesn't recognize it as a police state. And while his assessments of what exactly is wrong with our police in "Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces", for example, are spot on, his solutions are lame. He understands the hate that communities in the US have for police, yet suggests that more foot patrols will help. We are way, way beyond that. Without strict liability laws and restrictions on police, there is no fixing this. While cops can get away with murder, there will be no fixing this. If having justice, which includes not murdering innocent people, is not enough of an issue for Americans to change this system of horrific, Holocaust-scale imprisonment, it really does seem like almost nobody cares.
While most everything you say is true, that is a terrible attitude. Becoming a negative, hate-filled cynic is the easy way to mentally cope with the situation, but it doesn’t help and actually only makes it worse by accepting it. Acknowledging these things as true but still expecting people to behave like civilized people, and speaking out when they don’t, is much harder, but it needs to be done if anything is to improve.
I expect civilized people to behave in civilized manners, but police are not civilized in this country--they have too much power and no consequences. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and what's more absolute than being able to murder pretty much anyone you want and get away with it? That's not a person, that's a fucking tyrant with a badge and expecting someone like that to behave in a civilized matter is what leads one to be beaten up or murdered and your relatives wondering why the cop got a nice, paid vacation for murdering their son. I'm just speaking from purely a pragmatic, survivalist point of view. If what you say works for you, that's great. But after having almost been murdered by an officer for peacefully having a conversation on a sidewalk, I can no longer believe these creatures are even fucking human anymore. And a lot of America thinks this way because a lot of people are oppressed and targeted by police here.
sorry it happened to you. i like your writings.. i guess the more of us office gerbils get hit across the face with reality, the more light we shine on these issues and cause some changes.
Yup. I think things have to get bad for non-poor whites before there are any changes. You can see this happening right now with the opiate pandemic. When that negativity outweighs the perceived positivity of our de facto segregationist system to white people, a system mainly enforced by police, we might see changes.
For now, I think a good start toward this goal is to start seeing people--all people--as human. That's not just something the police have to do, but something I have to do vis a vis the police, and everyday people have to do vis a vis both police, convicts, and "criminals". I'm personally willing to let go of my hate for the police and the justice system in this country if and when we start treating all people like humans. That means we don't use the threat and actuality of rape, torture, and murder in jail as a punishment when the actual punishment is going to jail. To me, it means police and government officials are held not only accountable, but to a higher standard than normal citizens (worse penalties and certainly no immunity from liability). It also means not criminalizing everyday activities.
Until then, the only thing we can do is speak up, bring awareness, and hope the police don't target us. And probably one of the most important things, teaching our children the truth about police, not the fairy tale of "serve and protect."
there is a police conduct complain procedure. but it can only be used within 30 days of the incident, not an option when you are in enthralled in proccedings. also mountain view PD for example hides the complaint forms from you, and only provides them on demand. Also many Califiornia PD use an anti constitutional clause on the complaints forms, which states that any complaint can land You in jail if found unfounded. And almost every complaint will end up unfounded when filed, still worth it cause it stays in the police officers file indefinitely and if those complaints add up the officer will not be trusted by courts. Point is everybody is discouraged to complain about police misconduct. Myself, i can't dedicate my life fighting this one incident.
You seem to think that we disagree on the facts. We do not. It is only your attitude that I have a slight reservation against. Certainly, treat police in person in whatever way allows you to survive. But actually hating them en masse (and doing only that), will only make the problem worse, not better. What will happen is that you will transmit your fear of the police to others, thereby cementing the power police holds. The English word “expect” is problematic here; I certainly do not actually assume that the police always will behave civilized, but I do expect them to, if you see what I mean. It is what should be expected of them by society. It is what I, a citizen, should be able to demand. Having this attitude enables me to insist upon proper behavior (in the appropriate venue, at an appropriate time, of course). But simply hating the police only exacerbates fear and resentment.
LE here. First, who releases something like this via Twitter? Second, her story makes no sense in regards to how LE operates. I suspect this will turn out to be all false or at least a half-truth.
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[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 87.1 ms ] threadAppalling. I wish it were more unbelievable.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rob-magazi...
But getting to the point, you really shouldn't allow isolated acts like this to influence you.
You're much more likely to be killed by the next earthquake in the Bay area then you are to be killed by dopey police officer.
What makes you assume he/she would base this decision on simple self-interest rather than principles?
I immigrated here from the U.S. and the only contact I have with the "government" is my annual tax filing.
Where previously I had nearly 6-monthly encounters with police just for (I guess) being a black/Muslim man. "Random" traffic stops escalating to inquiries into everything about my life.
Long live Australia.
[Edit: I DO routinely run into my neighborhood Australian police on Fridays, that's because we frequent the same local bar and catch up for drinks and games of pool.]
Not sure if you're being sarcastic here... In Vancouver, the summers are gorgeous without being sweltering. The winters are mild.
Affordability is definitely an issue, but if you work in tech then it shouldn't really be a problem.
Very happy to be back out west (especially with the glorious weather we've been having this month).
How so? Wolfram Alpha puts Sydney at ~1.2x the cost of living of LA: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=move+from+Los+Angeles+t...
Given that our GDP per capita is 1.25x US I think that we're about even. Also as someone moving from Melbourne to the SF Bay, there are areas within each country that are very far apart. Melbourne is far cheaper than the SF bay.
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/may/04/nsw-po...
"New South Wales police are on the verge of securing “extreme” new powers including to impose curfews on citizens, restrict who they spend time with or limit their communications, if they suspect involvement in “serious crime-related activity”.
The new “serious crime prevention orders” (SCPO) are similar to the control orders used on suspected terrorists, but broadened to a range of other offences including theft, tax evasion, money laundering or homicide.
Those acquitted of serious offences can still be issued a SCPO, as will people deemed to have engaged in conduct “likely to facilitate” a serious crime, defined as one punishable by at least five years’ prison."
Welcome to my local police-state.
What the actual fuck? This is despicable no matter what. They just have to be "suspected" to be subject to these insane powers?
But, the real insanity is that a crime like tax evasion is included in this list. Seriously. Tax evasion? Now, I know that the thing these all have in common is that they're commonly purpetrated by the mob and all, but tax evasion just doesn't rise to the level of homicide or even money laundering.
Side note - he wasn't arrested, he was handcuffed, had a weapon stuck in his back, was detained, had an illegal search performed on his possessions, and all by purported law enforcement officers who refused to identify themselves. In many ways this is worse than being arrested - with an arrest there are other layers of law enforcement to appeal to and receive justice. With an arrest at least we would have officers names, charges, etc, which if faked could theoretically result in discipline or firing of the officer. I know it doesn't always work that way, but at least the checks and balances exist.
With this kind of officer-level illegal search and detainment, there is very very little that can be done to seek any sort of justice. If this kids mom wasn't a reporter, nobody would have heard or believed the story.
I have some news for you. Arrest means nothing but detained/held/stopped. Most people imagine an arrest action has something formal to it, like having your rights read or someone announcing you're arrested. But it doesn't. You've been detained? You have been arrested. The cops zero obligation to tell you anything and they never have had such obligation.
As to whether it was illegal? The police have wide latitude to determine probable cause for whatever. You're right this kind of thing happens all the time, you're right it's despicable. But sadly, it's broadly legal and more or less the "normal" way the law works.
If you read the wikipedia article, it describes rights but you will notice the only limits in the US is how long you can be held and whether your statements can held against you (at which point you are supposed to be read you're right, except for limitless exceptions to this requirement).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest
No, they have wide latitude to try to claim probable cause but cannot create probable cause out of thin air. If a court later decides there was none, the evidence is tossed anyway (and permanently tainted).
However from what I've read on this story it sounds as though the young man was simply detained pursuant to an investigation (or at least that would be the official story).
But that's just arguing over semantics that typically don't come up at the court hearing. People get charged with non-relevant crap all the time to trump up the charges.
Where's the mythical "good guy with a gun" when you need one?
Damn, US you a scary country.
I'd rather deal with cops who might shoot me than cops who will definitely get a confession out of me if they want one.
"For 2012, the US Department of Justice reported a 93% conviction rate." -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate
In the US you can have your cake and eat it too: get shot by cops and have to plead guilty to avoid spending a huge chunk of your life in jail in favor of spending a slightly smaller chunk of your life in jail. America's the greatest country in the world (when it comes to injustice by the numbers).
So, you're talking anywhere from (roughly) seven times as frequent acquittals to over 40 times as many.
"Not very different", you say?
This is mostly down to how your standard police don't have any firearms at all. So you could say things are at least a few places elsewhere a little different.
I don't know why I stick my neck out to engage with people like you about topics like this, on a forum like this, but what the hell is wrong with you? You were worried about the authorities kidnapping and holding someone at gunpoint (sans an arrest, that's exactly what happened) but the second the mom references another person of color who was possibly wasn't served justice, you just don't care anymore?
Is that really what you're saying? Or is there some nuance here I'm missing?
edit: I'm genuinely sorry I said anything; I should have ignored it and I won't be replying further.
It does appear in this case he was not treated appropriately but would like to find out more before rushing to judgment.
It doesn't change the fact that Trayvon was a violent, brain damaged, hard drug abuser that attacked someone without just cause.
And who doesn't have an agenda to push?
That alone DOES make me question if she is only telling part of the story.
I understand why the incident could have resonated with Ms. Taylor, but I also think as a journalist she has a responsibility to not promote an organization which is flagrantly failing to follow the law around nonprofits. Instead Ms. Taylor could have promoted several other charities with better track records if she felt this was the proper moment and venue to use to promote charities focused on civil rights. For instance [1][2][3][4] all received 5 star ratings on Charity Navigator and have purposes in line with those stated for the Trayvon Martin Foundation.
1. The Southern Center for Human Rights: http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary...
2. The National Center for Law and Economic Justice: http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary...
3. The Institute for Justice: http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary...
4. Futures without Violence: http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary...
There is nothing about this indicative of actual police procedure. Craigslist-originated robberies are fairly common in urban U.S. CL regions.
In any case, there are contradictions in her account. For one, she expresses concern about his "personal files" being probed, copied and taken (with no indication why any would be of any interest to any level of law enforcement), yet this was a computer he was selling to a complete stranger as it was -- why would any personal files of any value or vulnerability be left on it in the first place?
How did her son know it was a weapon pressed against his back?
How could the handcuffs possibly have cut his wrists? Handcuffs don't have, like, blades on them that just cut you as they're hanging off your wrists. Seems like something added to punch-up the narrative.
And then tag it with a couple "Trayvon" mentions at the end. This screams "hoax" to me.
Healthy skepticism is useful, but if you think that the editor-at-large of a well known U.S. media publication would conduct a public hoax involving her son, well, you do you.
What I mean by the second part is when you come up with a reason to question a claim, that doesn't automatically weaken or invalidate the claim. Your first contention is basically "how can it be racism from just a craigslist posting?", that is, how did the assailants know he was black? Well, it's possible the assailants became more aggressive at the time of the meeting, after seeing the seller was black. Or perhaps the seller included a name more common with people of color. This is not suggesting that either absolutely is the case, but they are both likely and not uncommon scenarios in the present day. If you're going to begin speculation in this manner, it is only fair and reasonable to consider how your conclusion might also be falsified, considering alternate and equally plausible scenarios.
Or in the case of the cuffs, for which your comment seems to rely more on a rather dismissive statement of ignorance - cuffs certainly can and do cut and tear into skin when not used properly. Just do a quick image search for "injuries from handcuffs" (warning, some images on this search are nsfw and unpleasant) and it's plain enough to see multiple examples of damage from handcuffs, whether it be bruises or lacerations - it's fairly hard metal tightened hard around a fragile point on the human body. It's not hard to imagine how that could do damage or how bad the damage could be when used improperly (Intentionally or not). Yes, it is important to get this verified (a picture from the author would do nicely), but the basis of your skepticism is not really set in reality, but seemingly in raw skepticism.
The point I'm trying to make is that it is good to withhold judgement, but the attitude and the questions you raise really aren't sound, and instead appear almost vindictive.
Be skeptical, but part of that requires being a bit dispassionate and openly considering reasonable possibilities. It does not mean building up speculation as the foundation for a conclusion. It is possible this is a hoax, as you say. But to suggest it "screams" hoax is inaccurate.
You can't know it is a weapon. It is on your back. I've never been handcuffed, but they can hurt.
I have, however, been surrounded by cops taking folks home. Some friends of the dude I was dating, and we happen to have different skin colors. 4-5 cop cars, lights, drug dogs in a small public housing parking lot. I start getting questioned about drugs, and expected me to know a lot about my passengers. "People have been doing crack here, and we've found out white people are doing it too". I was let go, and to this day I hope those dudes were ok.
I've been pulled over for swerving after a lane change. Dude said we were drunk, even after we passed the breath test. It was late, we were driving around talking, but happened to be in a mostly poor, african-american part of town and we weren't. Her baby was mixed, though. It worked, we called it a night simply because of harassment.
Had guns out once with lots of cops. I'm still not sure what I did wrong. The park closed at 11, but since it was getting dark a parks department employee asked us to leave (but not the other people). Down the road we were surrounded, guns out.
The point is that there are a LOT of these sorts of stories, and it has taken a few killing with news coverage for them to finally - 20, 30, 40 years later - for anyone to start doing anything about them.
I was lucky enough to get out of my fear of the police because I've since moved. Racism exists everywhere, but not everywhere will tolerate it from their police department. When I'm out walking home at 2am here, I'm no longer afraid of the police. I won't even get stopped asking what I'm doing out, why i'm in a neighborhood, etc. So long as I'm just walking along, everything is good... and i'm in a city of 180k people.
This is the price we have to pay to keep oppressing blacks, latinos, Muslims, and whomever the undesirable group of the month might happen to be. Your third mistake was underestimating the cowardice of Americans especially the cowardice and fear of white America towards blacks, Hispanics, and recently Muslims. Americans have given up most of their freedoms in exchange for a brutal, oppressive police force whose sole purpose is oppression, racism, and cruelty. What happened to you is totally fucked up, but if you think paying $100k in taxes makes you immune or somehow protected from this brutal oppression machine, you simply do not understand the forces at play here in America.
There you are wrong, starting with e.g. reporter Radley Blako and his readers, and extending to large swaths of the white or thereabouts population who buy books like Arrest-Proof Yourself (http://www.amazon.com/Arrest-Proof-Yourself-Dale-C-Carson/dp...) This was reified for me in ~2008 when a local cop played a game of chicken with his car and my body.
Some of it is that the author lives in Santa Clara County, California as mentioned in another comment. Citizens in Bay Area counties are allowed to own (some types of) guns, but by and large not to carry them, and that appears to help the Badge Gang feel they can treat nearly the entire populace as their playthings.
Take that too far in my part of the country, a combo of Greater Appalachia and the cultural South, and the calculus changes rather a lot. And in my county, when I last renewed my concealed carry permit, 5% of the age eligible population had one, and gun ownership is not quite ubiquitous, but extremely common and steadily increasing. And many of the cops are on our side; can you imagine a Santa Clara County law enforcement public affairs type confirming that a woman had an "absolute right" to use lethal force against some home invaders?
Radley Balko is one brave writer, that's for sure. But even he's just going to write about the atrocities here after the fact. Maybe what I should have written is not that no one cares, but that very few people do, and they cannot change anything. Even Balko does not realize the full extent of the problem of living in a police state like this, probably because he doesn't recognize it as a police state. And while his assessments of what exactly is wrong with our police in "Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces", for example, are spot on, his solutions are lame. He understands the hate that communities in the US have for police, yet suggests that more foot patrols will help. We are way, way beyond that. Without strict liability laws and restrictions on police, there is no fixing this. While cops can get away with murder, there will be no fixing this. If having justice, which includes not murdering innocent people, is not enough of an issue for Americans to change this system of horrific, Holocaust-scale imprisonment, it really does seem like almost nobody cares.
For now, I think a good start toward this goal is to start seeing people--all people--as human. That's not just something the police have to do, but something I have to do vis a vis the police, and everyday people have to do vis a vis both police, convicts, and "criminals". I'm personally willing to let go of my hate for the police and the justice system in this country if and when we start treating all people like humans. That means we don't use the threat and actuality of rape, torture, and murder in jail as a punishment when the actual punishment is going to jail. To me, it means police and government officials are held not only accountable, but to a higher standard than normal citizens (worse penalties and certainly no immunity from liability). It also means not criminalizing everyday activities.
Until then, the only thing we can do is speak up, bring awareness, and hope the police don't target us. And probably one of the most important things, teaching our children the truth about police, not the fairy tale of "serve and protect."