How many pointless comments do we need? This is getting ridiculous. What does your comment add to the conversation that a million other whiners don't do?
It points out that we don't need more and more computer languages that no one uses. If you can come up with a language that really makes new contributions or really works better than the existing ones, great, but instead it seems we just have a bunch of me-too languages doing almost the same thing. Languages aren't useful unless there's a critical mass of people developing them, making libraries for them, making good compilers for them, and providing mindshare for them, so that there's enough people competent in them to use them. This is why languages like C and C++ are still used even though there are many valid criticisms of them and supposedly superior alternatives have been developed: the alternatives just haven't been good enough, in many/most cases, to justify switching. C++ may have its warts, for instance, but with all the libraries that exist for it and all the existing code and all the workers familiar with it, it usually makes sense to stick with it rather than switch to something like D or Rust or Swift or Go unless you have a really good reason (like you're developing on iOS where Swift is really well-supported).
These days, Python is the de-facto standard for general-purpose type-optional programming, and has a huge amount of libraries and mindshare, and is growing. So why do we need a clone?
> Python is the de-facto standard for general-purpose type-optional programming
Type hints were added to Python only in the most recent version (somewhat controversially), and the interpreter only knows about the syntax; there are no semantics defined. (You have to run an external program if you want to check the types). Why would you say Python is the standard for optional typing?
The alternatives to C/C++ are so popular that most programming is not done in C/C++ anymore, so your premise seems off. The alternatives have done stunningly well.
Rarely, RARELY is someone going to make a language that's radically better than what's currently available. But every new language is a chance to step in the right direction, or confirm that nope, no one wants something like this. We need MORE languages. Hundreds, a thousand more. Mostly they won't be used, but sometimes things will move forward.
Please don't post unsubstantive dismissals to Hacker News, especially in response to new work. If you have a substantive criticism, fine—please make it respectfully. If you don't, then don't post in these threads.
On HN, no one need ever apologize for creating something new, regardless of whether someone else thinks "this thing" is "needed". Most new creations won't end up becoming a huge deal, but that's no reason to trample on them. Indiscriminate trampling just ensures we end up with (a) an ugly, damaged garden, and (b) a culture of the status quo. It's also a vulgar behavior that violates the civility requirements of HN.
No one, least of all the trampling internet commentariat, knows how to distinguish what will prove important from what will not prove important. Therefore we should receive new things with respect for the creative spirit, even if we don't personally intend to use them.
You know, people who make these projects read HN. It really hurts to read someone slam your work, even when (or perhaps particularly when) it's a hobby.
You're basically saying that people don't have a right to have their work appreciated, and the rest of us should never get a chance to see it, no matter how great it is, unless the creator also has the fairly unrelated skill of withstanding assholes. There's no good reason it has to be this way. I understand that there's a difference between the current reality and what should be, but if someone is pushing the boundary towards a more ideal world, we should support them, not make excuses for the status quo.
If you have a thin skin, keep your ideas to yourself.
Why? Is it so much to ask for people who have nothing constructive to add, to just sit down and STFU? I mean, nobody is saying that criticism shouldn't be aired... but there's criticism and there's pointless flaming which serves no purpose other than to try and tear people down. As far as I'm concerned, if somebody has nothing to offer besides the latter, they are the ones who should keep their ideas to themselves. After all, it's not like airing a comment like "seems like another useless dingleberry plopped down from the arse of academic CS" is adding any value to the world or making anything better for anybody.
As somebody who has made things (projects/blog posts) that have garnered mixed reviews (i.e. some insults) I think it's important that we as a community don't turn this into a "safe-space"
My rule of thumb:
1. Positive
2. True
3. Important/Relevant
Every comment should strive for at least 2 of these.
As somebody who has made things (projects/blog posts) that have garnered mixed reviews (i.e. some insults) I think it's important that we as a community don't turn this into a "safe-space"
Agreed. Nobody wants HN to become a swamp of PC tripe... but it doesn't cost anything to simply "not be a dick". I think that's all most of us ask for.. just don't be a dick. It's simple, painless and free. And no "PC" is required.
We moved most of the comments from this thread to the creator's Show HN, which was posted a few days ago and didn't get much attention: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11717561.
We'll roll back the clock on that post so it gets to the same place on the front page that this one was.
I like what I'm seeing so far. The mix of ease of prototyping (e.g. not fighting the type system if you don't want to) and powerful constructs from functional programming land (map and friends, currying) and powerful function overloading is nice. And the syntax is concise yet readable.
One comment on the website: The only font-family specified for code is Menlo so I see an ugly variable width font on my PC :-(.
23 comments
[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 67.1 ms ] threadhttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11717561
Also, python is a steaming pile of crap.
These days, Python is the de-facto standard for general-purpose type-optional programming, and has a huge amount of libraries and mindshare, and is growing. So why do we need a clone?
Type hints were added to Python only in the most recent version (somewhat controversially), and the interpreter only knows about the syntax; there are no semantics defined. (You have to run an external program if you want to check the types). Why would you say Python is the standard for optional typing?
Rarely, RARELY is someone going to make a language that's radically better than what's currently available. But every new language is a chance to step in the right direction, or confirm that nope, no one wants something like this. We need MORE languages. Hundreds, a thousand more. Mostly they won't be used, but sometimes things will move forward.
On HN, no one need ever apologize for creating something new, regardless of whether someone else thinks "this thing" is "needed". Most new creations won't end up becoming a huge deal, but that's no reason to trample on them. Indiscriminate trampling just ensures we end up with (a) an ugly, damaged garden, and (b) a culture of the status quo. It's also a vulgar behavior that violates the civility requirements of HN.
No one, least of all the trampling internet commentariat, knows how to distinguish what will prove important from what will not prove important. Therefore we should receive new things with respect for the creative spirit, even if we don't personally intend to use them.
If you have a thin skin, keep your ideas to yourself.
That said, it is not HN-ly (pronounced "heavenly") conduct. :)
Why? Is it so much to ask for people who have nothing constructive to add, to just sit down and STFU? I mean, nobody is saying that criticism shouldn't be aired... but there's criticism and there's pointless flaming which serves no purpose other than to try and tear people down. As far as I'm concerned, if somebody has nothing to offer besides the latter, they are the ones who should keep their ideas to themselves. After all, it's not like airing a comment like "seems like another useless dingleberry plopped down from the arse of academic CS" is adding any value to the world or making anything better for anybody.
My rule of thumb: 1. Positive 2. True 3. Important/Relevant
Every comment should strive for at least 2 of these.
Agreed. Nobody wants HN to become a swamp of PC tripe... but it doesn't cost anything to simply "not be a dick". I think that's all most of us ask for.. just don't be a dick. It's simple, painless and free. And no "PC" is required.
We'll roll back the clock on that post so it gets to the same place on the front page that this one was.
One comment on the website: The only font-family specified for code is Menlo so I see an ugly variable width font on my PC :-(.