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Ask HN: Will everyone but Docker make money off of Docker?

32 points by canterburry ↗ HN
There is a lot going on in the docker landscape and especially around container management, monitoring etc. I seem to see more innovation around docker coming out of companies other than Docker.

Will Docker be another JVM where everyone but Sun made money on Java?

22 comments

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unlinker
Welcome to OSS, where the only viable financial model is to sell a product so bad people will have to pay you for support or to run it for them. (Example: Automattic with WordPress)
optimuspaul
no. Support isn't free.

Also, Sun did make money on Java with certifications and some licensing.

unlinker
Support isn't free but anybody can also sell support.
L_Rahman
Yes, but if I'm an enterprise support customer - I'd much rather buy support from the people who build the product.
wmf
But from an enterprise perspective "the product" likely means the GUI (e.g. DC/OS or DUCP), not some daemon buried layers deep.
canterburry
Yes, Sun did make money...but not nearly as much as IBM and the entire stack of Java tech they came up with...all impossible without Sun's invention.
emeraldd
I highly doubt that. They've already made significant in roads to monetizing the product:

https://www.docker.com/pricing

For a small/startup kind of shop that might not be overly appealing, but there are definitely classes of business who see support as a requirement.

canterburry
Yes, they certainly have...but they don't seem to be moving nearly as fast as RedHat on OpenShift, the Kubernetes project itself and now even HP.

All the established enterprise companies seem to be eating Docker's lunch by signing huge enterprise deals off of a technology Docker invented and SHOULD have first mover advantage.

goldbrick
At the risk of playing the broken record, Docker didn't invent anything, etc. etc.
lewisl9029
Kubernetes is still the elephant in the room, but Docker Swarm definitely seems to be gaining a lot of traction as well despite being a much younger project.

I certainly wouldn't count them out just yet.

sagichmal
In what universe is Swarm gaining traction?! I am honestly curious; I'm deep in the ecosystem and I don't know of a single shop that uses Swarm for anything other than a POC, maybe.
lewisl9029
Personally, I can only provide the anecdata of noticing many more DevOps jobs postings mention Swarm lately, albeit often in the same breath as Kubernetes. This doesn't mean any of them are running Swarm in production, of course, but it certainly does mean Swarm is beginning to gain mindshare as a potential alternative.

The results of Docker's recent survey also seems to align with my observations [1], but of course we should probably take their findings with a grain of salt.

[1] https://blog.docker.com/2016/03/swarmweek-docker-swarm-excee...

sagichmal
That survey compiled results from those who replied to a Docker marketing email. The numbers are, near as makes no difference, pure fiction.
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joeseeder
I had a contract where we used swarm to schedule jenkins slaves for us. It's used in the production pipeline a lot for one of UKs most important projects.
eulji
Ehm Docker did not invent anything. They polished an existing technology and made it better (not that it's a wrong thing). Many companies / teams do this.

And btw this is a big problem in OSS. We have a lot of good stuff and underpaid people / teams / companies. Because of OSS zealots and leeches.

minimaxir
It's worth noting that Docker's current revenue models are a) hosting Docker images and b) orchestrating deployments and providing a dashboard/infrastructure to do so...both of which Google and Mesos are also doing and spending a considerable amount of resources on improving the container model.

It's also worth noting that unlike the JVM kerfuffle, Docker is open source (Apache license) and they won't be able to file multibillion lawsuits against Google over their use of Docker, which in this case may put Docker at a disadvantage.

lallysingh
Considering how much Google put into the development of linux's container tech that Docker uses, that'd be an odd lawsuit.
avitzurel
As other mentioned before. Docker the core product is open source and free but in order to use Docker in production you need many supporting products/features.

Beyond the support which is an obvious path, they have the paid private hosting, the cloud hosting and more.

If you look at the ecosystem of orchestration and deployment of docker you see that there's still HUGE room for improvement and people WILL pay for a good product in this area.

mnkmnk
I think all the money that is to be made by docker is by hosting private docker images and deploying them. Rancher has beat docker-cloud in its own game.
tym0
They managed to make Docker Hub an integral part of a lot of people workflow, and Docker Hub is not free for private repo so I'm sure they'll be alright.