Any Jolla/Sailfish users out there that could shed some light on their impressions so far? I'm reluctant to switch to Android or iOS but I will need to switch out my phone real soon.
It has a bit unusual user interface. They designed it to be usable by one hand, but I think they just ended up with a bit messy UI. It takes some time to get used to and some features are not easy to discover (like the top sliding menu or the context menu on list items).
It runs its own native Sailfish apps (there's few hundred of them) and Android apps (you can install Google Play, if you follow a bit cumbersome instructions). However, the UI logic in native apps is different than in Android apps. Native apps use a lot of wiping gestures, while Android apps use more tapping and the back button.
There is also a native web browser (built on top of Gecko) and it has its own UI logic (the usual web browser logic with a back button, no gestures).
So, all together, it has three way to navigate, which makes the whole experience a bit fragmented.
But, if you want to escape the surveillance riddled Android and iPhone, Jolla is a good basic phone. It offers a lot for hackers, because its built on top of Linux and you have access to almost everything without rooting. I got my phone three years ago and I'm still getting OS updates regularly, which is also nice. I just wish the UI was better.
They have an SDK built on top of Qt Creator and it runs on OS X, Windows and Linux [1].
Linux may offer some advantages, such as access to the phone file system. OSX has a bit cumbersome ways to access it [2].
If you want to write programs for it, you can use Qt C++, QML or Python. It also has a terminal with the usual bash commands. And, of course, you can always write Android apps with tools given by Google and run those apps on Jolla.
As a niche hardware feature, the original Jolla phone has a hackable i2c bus under its back cover. Some people have tried to build keyboards, e-ink screens etc. connected to it. The specs for the bus are public [3].
I'm not sure if the new Jolla C is really meant for casual users, because you need to participate in their community device program to get one.
EDIT: removed some speculations about the community program
EDIT2: looks like the original Jolla phone isn't sold anymore
The phone itself runs Linux. You can ssh into it if you want. I can't think onf any reason why you would need to use Linux for anything, but if you did then I guess you could run it in a VM.
I think this is a very fair point. The user interface tries to innovate, but personally I think it's a miss. I wish they kept the N9 style UI that was pretty widely applauded.
The cumbersome interface and missing native application features were the main points why I switched back to Android.
The user interface is my favorite thing about it. I find Android painful to use. This is probably because I hadn't used Android until after I had already used Sailfish. I don't see any advantage in copying N9.
There's a tutorial included with the phone, that takes the user through all the important concepts. I personally find the UI very neat, consistent, and innovative. It's almost a step backward to use Apple or Android devices now.
I really liked my Jolla phone except for the crappy camera. If it had had a better camera I would still be using it.
The interface was nice, the open system was nice (it was easy to code desktop notifications: just connect to dbus on the phone and call the notifier on my desktop machine) and the Android subsystem worked well enough.
For me every platform would be a compromise. What I could not stand on Android is the constant display of ads, just everywhere, in every app.
Since one and a half year I have a Jolla now. Some things are quirky, but some things are really great.
Pro:
- No ads. Really, no ads, not anywhere.
- I can just install my own host file with ad networks routed to 0.0.0.0 for the browser.
- Android apps are available. I don't need much apps and Whatsapp and sometimes Skype are enough.
- Updates are available every month and every update has good features. Now with the meltdown a few months ago things have slowed down. We will see how it comes back up. There has been one update in the last months.
- The interface is consistent. I have an all-black ambience, and every app just follows that ambience and is just black. I like it that way, life is too distracting already.
- Just a checkbox to enable root access. No futzing with rooting or jailbreaking my own device (really bad mentality, if that is considered a good way to sell me something).
- SSH by default to copy files to and from the device.
- Backup is in Git and you can copy it to your desktop. Haven't needed a restore. We will see how it goes :).
- Most of the times I get an uptime of about a month. Not sure what Android and iPhone users get normally.
- I like the screens and the tiles with apps. I enjoyed that on my N9 as well, there it was even better. With Sailfish 2.0 they improved it a bit, and put some ideas back from the N9.
- People claim the camera is bad. For me it is good enough. Even better when recently a friend failed to take good photo's with an iPhone 5, and the Jolla made them fine (really, not made up). We were taking pictures in the direction of the sun.
Con:
- It isn't that fast, and with Android apps open like Whatsapp and Skype, 1GB is too little and you can notice it while browsing. I don't run into the OOM-killer often though (if ever).
- The default browser (Gecko based) isn't fast either. For JavaScript heavy sites I use Webcat (Chromium based).
- For a while I had my calendar working with my Owncloud calendar, but it broke somewhere. Haven't taken the time to see if that works again. There are logs, but I just haven't taken the time.
- Whatsapp notifications come in slow. Sometimes WA loses connection, allthough the network is up. Turning Wifi off and on brings it back online.
- For a while I enjoyed native apps for Whatsapp, like Mitakuulu and Whatsup, but I suspect Whatsapp is actively blocking them or changing connection settings for them. I now settled on the main Android app, which is worse in every way, compared to Whatsup.
> What I could not stand on Android is the constant display of ads, just everywhere, in every app.
Huh? I have used Android phones for over 5 years and almost never see ads.
Yes, some free apps have ads but you just need to spend a dollar or two to remove them. Developers don't work for free you know. An app doesn't give you that option? Uninstall it. I have two exceptions to that rule because the apps in question are great and the ads are non-intrusive.
I'm using it for everyday purposes on Nexus 5. UI usability is excellent. My only problem - the browser development is stalled and it's using outdated Gecko fork.
Very surprised, I hadn't anticipated this happening.
(Irrationally excited too.)
I'd assumed that after the tablet fiasco that Jolla wouldn't be doing any hardware for a long time. (I'm not personally grumpy in any way, but I think fiasco is the most accurate word :-s )
I'd been holding out hope for an official Fairphone 2 deal (or even the Puzzlephone), but this is awesome :-)
I was using a dumb phone and a change of life made me need a smartphone. A friend of mine encouraged me to get a Jolla.
I liked the idea, Open Source, you can code your app in Python, compatible with Android apps, etc.
At the begining, I was very tolerant with the quirks of the phone, being a FOSS believer and all.
But after months and months of use, I'm getting more and more frustrated with it:
- it's slow.
- apps randomly crashes or don't start at all.
- Android support is limited.
- network is unreliable.
- the performances don't allow any decent Web
surf experience, and I already hate the Web
on mobile so it makes things irritating for me.
- it requires a lot of fiddling to adapt it to
your needs. It can be good if you need customization,
but some basic stuff (such as emoji) are not included by
default. Some might consider that a feature, but when
a girl text me a smiley when I flirt with her, I want to
know what face it has because it kinda condition
my next answer.
- some bugs are incredibly annoying. The worst being
the poor handling of group text messages which lead
to very confusing conversations. A smartphone that
can't text, really?
- ergonomy is lacking at best. While I think there
are some neat ideas, the hidden menu for simple tasks,
the absence of resize in some picture mode and the
presence of it in others and plenty other subtle
details make it cumbersome to use even for basic
stuff. The color scheme and overall design is
not a good fit on the long run.
I do like having a real GNU system and a terminal to play with it on my phone, but let's face it, I use the Web/GPS/Text more than the terminal, and they are not decent for a 2016 experience.
It's where smarphones were 5 years ago, but with bugs.
I don't regret I bought it, it was a nice experience, but now I'm going for something that will just work.
Well what did you expect if you bought a phone made in 2013 and which was low-end phone with mid-level price even at that time (costed about 400 € and felt like a 200€ smart phone).
Nowadays it's either Android or iPhone. Pick your poison.
The specs for Jolla C are quite limited, but maybe with their OS those specs are enough. At least now they gotten better display panel (IPS) because the one of the biggest fails the first Jolla phone had, was the display.
Jolla C looks like it's priced at zero-margin. They just want to have lots of developers at this point. And the 169 € sounds a lot better than 400€
Out of interest, how recent is your experience? SailfishOS has come a long way. I'm using SailfishOS 2.0, and a lot of the shortcomings (e.g. speed, crashing) have been resolved.
I've bought the phone last years, but I kepts it up to date. Now I'm on 2.0.1. It's way better, but all the previous points still hold. Surfing, espacially, is painful experience with slow loading and misclicks everywhere. Group text won't tell you who is answering to you and you can't select a message to respond to it only. Yesterday the phone went from 4G to 2G for no reason then shut down.
They are too small. I also have such 'pain-points', e.g. the notes with CardDAV/Fastmail are not synchronized. Wtf, such a basic requirement. But realistically they cannot match Andorid/iPhone, it's kind of a wonder how far they got.
Doesn't happen to me. Not argueing one way or another, just stating a different experience.
I once had a Sony Xperia, bought the same model as my then-girlfriend, from the same company, probably the same batch. She had often spontaneous reboots, but I never had. She complained quite much about that and would never buy a Sony smartphone again.
That's really, really strange. I don't find any of these problems to be true. Not one of them. I don't know how this could be. I can't agree that this is where phones were 5 years ago.
I got my phone (probably one of the last) in February. I can't agree with any of your points - not a single one! This Jolla phone is superb: fast (including web browsing), reliable, easy to use, with support for all the Android apps I'm interested in.
My only complaint is that the software (Sailfish OS) is let down by the hardware. I wish Jolla had been brave enough to gamble with the Mirasol display; too late now, since Apple's acquired the tech (and will probably do awesome things with it).
With my bluetooth keyboard, I'm happy playing with emacs (Slime and SBCL), and hopefully soon Erlang - all through a native terminal. For lightning fast web browsing, I use Links2. I certainly can't do any of this on an Apple device, and Android - is it possible? I'll never know - I'm spoilt with my Jolla.
I'm curious about what's compelling about having a native terminal. When I first started with Android, I really enjoyed using the terminal, creating chroots, installing and configuring things. I learned a lot. But now that I have several cheap servers on DigitalOcean, I have almost no interest in native terminal. The interface is the same, everything works properly with no quirks, I can scale up the power as much as I want, and I can access it from a desktop to pick up where I left off.
The only use case I can think of would be wanting to access a terminal on the phone when I don't have a network connection, but so far that has never come up.
I'm not saying it isn't nice to have a native terminal, just that renting a VPS to me is so much better to mein every way. I can definitely see the case for people on a very tight budget or with poor connectivity, but is there any other reason? Not trying to contradict you, just really can't think of a reason why I'd want to go back.
A smartphone is a pocket computer with a suite of communications and networking tools. Imagine being able to use something like Rebol - which makes it easy to send emails with simple commands - but updated for GSM/SMS/etc.
There are immense possibilities for useful software, all starting with a terminal, but which can be built into full graphical applications. A hacker's delight!
(BTW, this post is being written on a Jolla phone)
I just mesured. Between the moment you click the native browser (not even Firefox, which I use), and the moment you can start write a tweet, there is a gap of 23 seconds. 23 seconds to display a web page on a fresh system with no other app running. This is insane.
It is made much worse by the fact you can't open many apps at the same time. The OS frequently keels app you don't use, so you have to regularly wait another 23 second all other again if you multitask.
I counted less than 10 seconds to Twitter on my phone. That's with one other app running. I can open many apps simultaneously, although I rarely go past 6 or 7.
So clearly there are differences between phone models (if indeed my phone has some minor upgrades over previous ones), and/or OS versions.
My thought would be to try a btrfs balance (can be done through one of the menus); or trying to free some space from the internal storage.
It made a large difference in how the performance felt on mine last time I did so. (A bit sad that it's often required, the fs is one of the main pain points ime.)
(For reference, mine took ~15 seconds, but think that about 5 of that was network related -- because the browser was open and responsive at the 10 second mark. Had 4 other apps open at the time.)
The phone looks like a decent all-rounder, but I'd say they've missed out on one potential killer app.
I'd say the one feature that is game changing for both Jolla and Ubuntu Phone is being able to run it as a desktop device as well as a phone. If the hardware supported USB Type C, there'd be no question that this would be my next phone, even if the desktop functionality wasn't supported at launch it would be a clear statement of intention.
Well some of the new Microsoft Lumia phones had the ability to work as a desktop computer. Look how well it did for Microsoft ;p
The idea is cool but the computers and smart phones are so cheap everyone has somekind of computer (or access to one) + smart phone. This would've awesome in the mid-2000s, though ;-)
+ Haven't seen a device that really solves different usage patters of mobile phone and desktop in the same UI. If you're going suggest Windows 8-10, I'm sorry to break it to you but they failed miserably.
> "The idea is cool but the computers and smart phones are so cheap everyone has somekind of computer (or access to one) + smart phone."
I don't own a x86 PC, all I have access to are work computers and my smartphone. This is partly out of choice, I want to keep my possessions to a minimum.
As for your other points, I would suggest that previous attempts have failed because they were clunky, with USB Type C the potential is there for a much better user experience.
> "If you're going to suggest Windows 8-10, I'm sorry to break it to you but they failed miserably."
You're treating your own opinion like a breaking news story. Nice try, but it doesn't give it any extra weight.
The hardware won't be up to it, and it would be a huge amount of work to build a desktop UI which matches their mobile UI. Canonical have been pursuing this for five years, and are only just about getting there.
They haven't abandoned it. Mir isn't ready for prime time, I suspect they're waiting to get that in place before pushing the convergence features forward further.
I miss my semi-bricked n900. I know one of us always chimes in, but still, it's true. It was a very functional phone. I need to solder a USB cable onto the data-pads under the battery to retrieve some data and possibly restore it, but it served very well for 5 years.
The Ubuntu phone is a tolerable placeholder. A Jolla seems like it would be just tolerable also (as per sametmax's comments) but I'll have to keep waiting for something decent and open.
Also still holding out for convergence... Give it another 5 years probably!
> I need to solder a USB cable onto the data-pads under the battery to retrieve some data
You can just rsync to get the data off. That port only needs to work if you need to reimage, or you only have one battery/don't like swapping batteries every day..
Thanks, normally that would be OK but I basically apt-get autoremoved some system utils [0] and the thing wouldn't boot again. Had been so careful for years, then one careless keystroke and I'd hosed the system. I'd reflash it, but the re-solder of the usb port finally went and took most of the PCB connectors with it. And I was careful there too, again for years. So without booting and without data connectivity, rsync won't be an option.
So it's a case of (I think) soldering a new USB cable into place under the battery, charging, exfil the data, then reflash to finally have it back in business. Albeit with a rat-tail hanging out the case.
--
[0] Never figured out what the utils were, but seem to recall it being part of a python dependency chain. So autoremove had somehow, probably incorrectly, thought it was OK to get rid of a key component of some kind. It was the power kernel with a bunch of mods, so probably my own fault somewhere along the line.
I hear you. I hate that neither N900 nor Jolla can just have mainline boring Debian with normal boring updates, but instead have to be Frankenstein's monsters filled with proprietary blobs and /opt-ified nonsense. If you do anything slightly strange, apt-get turns dangerous.
I would say to make sure that you have all of the Maemo images saved somewhere, and know where the repos currently reside. I just reimaged another N900 and got it current in order to avoid dealing with its broken USB port, and it's starting to become a bit of an ordeal. t.m.o. is dying...
Thanks for that. I'd better look into that sooner rather than later. Funny, I was actually cleaning up the system to reinstate the Debian chroot. That basically is the end game with mobile computing, I suppose. Fully mobile and portable systems, good battery life, processing power and of course open. One of these days, maybe!
I'd like for Jolla or Ubuntu to succeed with their phones but I just don't see it.
I fiddled around with an Ubuntu phone for a while but stopped using it eventually. The basic funtionalities are just not as good or as stable as they should be. That would be step one.
But then, especially with phones, there's a lot of innovation and those kind of phones just can't keep up.
I'm not sure there's all that much innovation in smartphones. Android doesn't seem to have changed all that much over the past 2-3 years, it seems to have entered a holding pattern with various small tweaks over that time. I just looked up Android N, and the first article I got back had some of the top features as new emoji and keyboard themes! It strikes me that the whole area is mature and stable, which is great, but it doesn't exactly mean they're speeding off into the distance.
If they can catch up with basic functionality, web apps continue to develop and are integrated well, there's decent android app compatibility, and they can add an extra interesting feature like convergence (which requires that the next-generation hardware is fast enough), I personally would be quite enthusiastic to have an Ubuntu phone as my next smartphone.
True, on OS level not that much. Although things like multitasking, nightshift etc. are quite neat. Smartwear/watches are something that wouldn't get any love either.
And yes, web apps need to get better to work. Android compability is nice but will never be nicely integrated (especially if dependent on Google Services). And only a fraction will develop native apps.
Android N will enable richer multi-tasking, a richer focus model for apps, and provide desktop style mouse support, basically bridging the gap from the touch-first side, so that you get the full spectrum of usage modes from handset to desktop. Over the years Android has also made gains in multimedia, GPGPU, and graphics that most users might not be aware of but will affect the kinds of apps being developed. There are a lot of resources being applied to Android and Sailfish and other more Linuxy phone OSs will find it hard to keep up.
BUT I'd still like a Linux phone and/or tablet that runs the legacy Linux apps. Then I could have a mobile device on which I could compile Android and run Android Studio for app development. That would be fun.
I hate to say it but the lack of technological freedom that exists in the US is in direct relationship to the lack of 'open' phone technologies being offered. Essentially the US is paying so that good hardware (as in private and secure) is being held back from the general public. This shit has to stop.
They should pull an IBM and open up the platform like it's customary on x86. Then users can keep Jolla OS or switch to Ubuntu or somebody else comes with something better. Jolla should focus on hardware and Ubuntu on software instead of both doing their job poorly and going nowhere when compared to Android.
Based on their blog there are no more tablets to ship, but if the words of an unfamiliar HN user mean anything to you, I can verify that I received the first half of my refund two days ago.
Also got my first half refund in my paypal acct a few days ago. Since I promised I would only strongly reccomend not getting a Jolla device for those conditions, that's what I'm saying.
If you like total linkdark from your manufacturer coupled with emergency releases of news (because someone else leaked they missed a critical funding round) that leaves users even more befuddled and calling for clear feedback.
I really do not anymore understand Jolla. I have bought a Jolla Phone in the past followed by backing the tablet. The phone started slowly to annoy me more and more, mainly because of the subpar processor and the lack of memory (I had to keep killing apps to keep my browser handy). Android support is okay but notifications get delayed from time to time (for hours)...
Jolla said to focus more on the software, and now they come up with this?!
I really don't get this. The specs are subpar, the unique selling points (no bloatware, premium jolla support) are no different than before, and it is all made even weirder to get the product via this first come first serve idea with only a 1000 phones.
Jolla has been criticized that they are crappy at opening up and telling the real deal. They really are. In the months following the tablet debacle the updates were just crappy. It was until the rebate email (with a link to get fill in your details) that I discovered that I would actually get a tablet. Somehow it was too complicate to tell the first 1000 backers per email that they would get a tablet.
Jolla, get your communication act together. If you want to get people to believe in you explain your motives, explain your ideas of how the future would be. Skip the marketing bullshit, your target audience is not that much interested in hollow PR words. Be sincere, open and direct. Understand that people might be disappointed and explain the relevance of the Jolla C. But don't just act like nothing happened.
The way I understand it, it is a developer phone, something for people who do not have a Sailfish device yet and want to work on apps or the OS itself while the Intex device is in the works.
In North America, all smartphones are sold through a carrier - with very few exceptions. There's no infrastructure nor any significant consumer demand for phones sold through other methods, and it might hurt Jolla in the future if they are seen by carriers as attempting to break their stranglehold over the market.
People in the rest of the world are a lot more used to paying up-front for a phone, potentially through a third party, and getting a SIM-only plan.
I would love to have a Sailfish OS phone but if they are not Open Sourcing their UI libraries I can't convince myself to buy it.
It's a real shame because all I want is a fast, simple OpenSource phone OS (that is as responsive as iOS). AOSP is okay but it does not feel as snappy as when I tried iOS for which I blame Dalvik. There are not a lot of contenders, only Tizen, Ubuntu Phone and plasma mobile. I hope one of them will be installable on the Fairphone 2 in the near future...
I don't want to sound dismissive but why is that a deciding factor over, say, an Android phone? At least the UI should be easier to make snappy with Qt underneath so I'd consider it if I were in the market for a phone.
If Jolla open sourced their UI technology, what would happen to the company and investors? And would Sailfish OS then be fated to suffer endless fragmentation, like Android?
There's nothing terribly wrong with the closed parts of this system. Much of the phone is readily accessible to developers, and Jolla provides a lot of support. It's far more open than Android or iOS.
I don't know about open. Trying to fish for the price and they do not sell to the U.S. apparently. I would buy this phone, or something similar, if it were actually available.
The thing I can't stand about android aps is that many are not available unless you login to google. It really pisses me off too. Why does my banking ap or my email provider ap have to come directly from google?? Is it that hard to host miniature files on the sites for which the apk's are designed??
My email ap says that the playstore needs to update but the apk still works even though playstore is disabled. Stupid, stupid, stupid. On the jolla phone I would install a barebones version of gapps, if at all. Right now I am using ~9 apk's I can find nowhere else but the playstore and tbh If my phone was rooted I would remove them all.
Sorry to use this thread but I'm interested in the Windows version of Living Cels you mentioned in another thread that is now closed. Any chance of contacting you?
I've given up on Jolla. Their OS got worse with every release. Their hardware was very sloppy (three dead batteries in a year time, design flaw which required me to keep a piece of paper under the battery to keep it in place). Their support was god awful. The only way to get my device fixed was to mail it to Finland and spend over a month without a replacement.
The idea was great. They tried to keep the Maemo spirit alive. But they failed.
It seemed like an interesting way to engage tinkerers/hackers and have people come up with new ideas.
But it didn't take off really much. There is only a small community, and they worked years on a half-decent keyboard. For the rest there are just some LED-based backcovers.
I am too surprised they did a new phone after the tablet fiasco. I wonder how it differs from the Intex phone they showed on MWC 2016 in February.
I really wonder if they think about the product name in terms of people who try to look it up. "jolla" in Finnish also means "on which" (in addition to "dinghy" or some little boat), which makes it really difficult to look up on finnish websites.
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[ 8.5 ms ] story [ 355 ms ] threadIt runs its own native Sailfish apps (there's few hundred of them) and Android apps (you can install Google Play, if you follow a bit cumbersome instructions). However, the UI logic in native apps is different than in Android apps. Native apps use a lot of wiping gestures, while Android apps use more tapping and the back button.
There is also a native web browser (built on top of Gecko) and it has its own UI logic (the usual web browser logic with a back button, no gestures).
So, all together, it has three way to navigate, which makes the whole experience a bit fragmented.
But, if you want to escape the surveillance riddled Android and iPhone, Jolla is a good basic phone. It offers a lot for hackers, because its built on top of Linux and you have access to almost everything without rooting. I got my phone three years ago and I'm still getting OS updates regularly, which is also nice. I just wish the UI was better.
Linux may offer some advantages, such as access to the phone file system. OSX has a bit cumbersome ways to access it [2].
If you want to write programs for it, you can use Qt C++, QML or Python. It also has a terminal with the usual bash commands. And, of course, you can always write Android apps with tools given by Google and run those apps on Jolla.
As a niche hardware feature, the original Jolla phone has a hackable i2c bus under its back cover. Some people have tried to build keyboards, e-ink screens etc. connected to it. The specs for the bus are public [3].
I'm not sure if the new Jolla C is really meant for casual users, because you need to participate in their community device program to get one.
EDIT: removed some speculations about the community program
EDIT2: looks like the original Jolla phone isn't sold anymore
[1] https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Application_SDK_Installation
[2] https://jolla.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201440867-How-do...
[3] http://jolla.com/the-other-half-developer-kit/
The cumbersome interface and missing native application features were the main points why I switched back to Android.
The interface was nice, the open system was nice (it was easy to code desktop notifications: just connect to dbus on the phone and call the notifier on my desktop machine) and the Android subsystem worked well enough.
Since one and a half year I have a Jolla now. Some things are quirky, but some things are really great.
Pro:
- No ads. Really, no ads, not anywhere.
- I can just install my own host file with ad networks routed to 0.0.0.0 for the browser.
- Android apps are available. I don't need much apps and Whatsapp and sometimes Skype are enough.
- Updates are available every month and every update has good features. Now with the meltdown a few months ago things have slowed down. We will see how it comes back up. There has been one update in the last months.
- The interface is consistent. I have an all-black ambience, and every app just follows that ambience and is just black. I like it that way, life is too distracting already.
- Just a checkbox to enable root access. No futzing with rooting or jailbreaking my own device (really bad mentality, if that is considered a good way to sell me something).
- SSH by default to copy files to and from the device.
- Backup is in Git and you can copy it to your desktop. Haven't needed a restore. We will see how it goes :).
- Most of the times I get an uptime of about a month. Not sure what Android and iPhone users get normally.
- I like the screens and the tiles with apps. I enjoyed that on my N9 as well, there it was even better. With Sailfish 2.0 they improved it a bit, and put some ideas back from the N9.
- People claim the camera is bad. For me it is good enough. Even better when recently a friend failed to take good photo's with an iPhone 5, and the Jolla made them fine (really, not made up). We were taking pictures in the direction of the sun.
Con:
- It isn't that fast, and with Android apps open like Whatsapp and Skype, 1GB is too little and you can notice it while browsing. I don't run into the OOM-killer often though (if ever).
- The default browser (Gecko based) isn't fast either. For JavaScript heavy sites I use Webcat (Chromium based).
- For a while I had my calendar working with my Owncloud calendar, but it broke somewhere. Haven't taken the time to see if that works again. There are logs, but I just haven't taken the time.
- Whatsapp notifications come in slow. Sometimes WA loses connection, allthough the network is up. Turning Wifi off and on brings it back online.
- For a while I enjoyed native apps for Whatsapp, like Mitakuulu and Whatsup, but I suspect Whatsapp is actively blocking them or changing connection settings for them. I now settled on the main Android app, which is worse in every way, compared to Whatsup.
/edit
And Oh boy, this HN editor is bad...
Huh? I have used Android phones for over 5 years and almost never see ads.
Yes, some free apps have ads but you just need to spend a dollar or two to remove them. Developers don't work for free you know. An app doesn't give you that option? Uninstall it. I have two exceptions to that rule because the apps in question are great and the ads are non-intrusive.
The OS is a breeze to use, even if you're using Android apps.
However after the whole Jolla Tablet fiasco, I am reluctant to buy more from the company.
(Irrationally excited too.)
I'd assumed that after the tablet fiasco that Jolla wouldn't be doing any hardware for a long time. (I'm not personally grumpy in any way, but I think fiasco is the most accurate word :-s )
I'd been holding out hope for an official Fairphone 2 deal (or even the Puzzlephone), but this is awesome :-)
(<3 to jolla for trying to provide a more open and friendly ecosystem, wish you were a billion-euro-strong company)
Smart move for a developer phone.
I liked the idea, Open Source, you can code your app in Python, compatible with Android apps, etc.
At the begining, I was very tolerant with the quirks of the phone, being a FOSS believer and all.
But after months and months of use, I'm getting more and more frustrated with it:
I do like having a real GNU system and a terminal to play with it on my phone, but let's face it, I use the Web/GPS/Text more than the terminal, and they are not decent for a 2016 experience.It's where smarphones were 5 years ago, but with bugs.
I don't regret I bought it, it was a nice experience, but now I'm going for something that will just work.
Nowadays it's either Android or iPhone. Pick your poison.
The specs for Jolla C are quite limited, but maybe with their OS those specs are enough. At least now they gotten better display panel (IPS) because the one of the biggest fails the first Jolla phone had, was the display.
Jolla C looks like it's priced at zero-margin. They just want to have lots of developers at this point. And the 169 € sounds a lot better than 400€
- frequently restarts for no apparent reason,
- no global copy and paste. I was hoping that would be implemented in 2.0, and I was very disappointed it had not.
Although now I have switched to an Android phone, I wish Jolla best of luck. Hope to try their products in future.
Would not surprise me if that is related to their use of systemd.
Doesn't happen to me. Not argueing one way or another, just stating a different experience.
I once had a Sony Xperia, bought the same model as my then-girlfriend, from the same company, probably the same batch. She had often spontaneous reboots, but I never had. She complained quite much about that and would never buy a Sony smartphone again.
My only complaint is that the software (Sailfish OS) is let down by the hardware. I wish Jolla had been brave enough to gamble with the Mirasol display; too late now, since Apple's acquired the tech (and will probably do awesome things with it).
With my bluetooth keyboard, I'm happy playing with emacs (Slime and SBCL), and hopefully soon Erlang - all through a native terminal. For lightning fast web browsing, I use Links2. I certainly can't do any of this on an Apple device, and Android - is it possible? I'll never know - I'm spoilt with my Jolla.
The only use case I can think of would be wanting to access a terminal on the phone when I don't have a network connection, but so far that has never come up.
I'm not saying it isn't nice to have a native terminal, just that renting a VPS to me is so much better to mein every way. I can definitely see the case for people on a very tight budget or with poor connectivity, but is there any other reason? Not trying to contradict you, just really can't think of a reason why I'd want to go back.
There are immense possibilities for useful software, all starting with a terminal, but which can be built into full graphical applications. A hacker's delight!
(BTW, this post is being written on a Jolla phone)
It is made much worse by the fact you can't open many apps at the same time. The OS frequently keels app you don't use, so you have to regularly wait another 23 second all other again if you multitask.
So clearly there are differences between phone models (if indeed my phone has some minor upgrades over previous ones), and/or OS versions.
My thought would be to try a btrfs balance (can be done through one of the menus); or trying to free some space from the internal storage.
It made a large difference in how the performance felt on mine last time I did so. (A bit sad that it's often required, the fs is one of the main pain points ime.)
(For reference, mine took ~15 seconds, but think that about 5 of that was network related -- because the browser was open and responsive at the 10 second mark. Had 4 other apps open at the time.)
I'd say the one feature that is game changing for both Jolla and Ubuntu Phone is being able to run it as a desktop device as well as a phone. If the hardware supported USB Type C, there'd be no question that this would be my next phone, even if the desktop functionality wasn't supported at launch it would be a clear statement of intention.
The idea is cool but the computers and smart phones are so cheap everyone has somekind of computer (or access to one) + smart phone. This would've awesome in the mid-2000s, though ;-)
+ Haven't seen a device that really solves different usage patters of mobile phone and desktop in the same UI. If you're going suggest Windows 8-10, I'm sorry to break it to you but they failed miserably.
I don't own a x86 PC, all I have access to are work computers and my smartphone. This is partly out of choice, I want to keep my possessions to a minimum.
As for your other points, I would suggest that previous attempts have failed because they were clunky, with USB Type C the potential is there for a much better user experience.
> "If you're going to suggest Windows 8-10, I'm sorry to break it to you but they failed miserably."
You're treating your own opinion like a breaking news story. Nice try, but it doesn't give it any extra weight.
The Ubuntu phone is a tolerable placeholder. A Jolla seems like it would be just tolerable also (as per sametmax's comments) but I'll have to keep waiting for something decent and open.
Also still holding out for convergence... Give it another 5 years probably!
You can just rsync to get the data off. That port only needs to work if you need to reimage, or you only have one battery/don't like swapping batteries every day..
So it's a case of (I think) soldering a new USB cable into place under the battery, charging, exfil the data, then reflash to finally have it back in business. Albeit with a rat-tail hanging out the case.
--
[0] Never figured out what the utils were, but seem to recall it being part of a python dependency chain. So autoremove had somehow, probably incorrectly, thought it was OK to get rid of a key component of some kind. It was the power kernel with a bunch of mods, so probably my own fault somewhere along the line.
I would say to make sure that you have all of the Maemo images saved somewhere, and know where the repos currently reside. I just reimaged another N900 and got it current in order to avoid dealing with its broken USB port, and it's starting to become a bit of an ordeal. t.m.o. is dying...
The N900 can. Shameless plug: https://github.com/dderby/debian900/
http://neo900.org/
If they can catch up with basic functionality, web apps continue to develop and are integrated well, there's decent android app compatibility, and they can add an extra interesting feature like convergence (which requires that the next-generation hardware is fast enough), I personally would be quite enthusiastic to have an Ubuntu phone as my next smartphone.
And yes, web apps need to get better to work. Android compability is nice but will never be nicely integrated (especially if dependent on Google Services). And only a fraction will develop native apps.
But convergence is a killer feature, indeed!
BUT I'd still like a Linux phone and/or tablet that runs the legacy Linux apps. Then I could have a mobile device on which I could compile Android and run Android Studio for app development. That would be fun.
I also think two mobile ecosystems isn't enough.
I really think we need an alternative to the Android / iOS duopoly and I hope this is it.
If you like total linkdark from your manufacturer coupled with emergency releases of news (because someone else leaked they missed a critical funding round) that leaves users even more befuddled and calling for clear feedback.
Jolla said to focus more on the software, and now they come up with this?!
I really don't get this. The specs are subpar, the unique selling points (no bloatware, premium jolla support) are no different than before, and it is all made even weirder to get the product via this first come first serve idea with only a 1000 phones.
Jolla has been criticized that they are crappy at opening up and telling the real deal. They really are. In the months following the tablet debacle the updates were just crappy. It was until the rebate email (with a link to get fill in your details) that I discovered that I would actually get a tablet. Somehow it was too complicate to tell the first 1000 backers per email that they would get a tablet.
Jolla, get your communication act together. If you want to get people to believe in you explain your motives, explain your ideas of how the future would be. Skip the marketing bullshit, your target audience is not that much interested in hollow PR words. Be sincere, open and direct. Understand that people might be disappointed and explain the relevance of the Jolla C. But don't just act like nothing happened.
I always find it funny when "open source" projects require you to join anything.
People in the rest of the world are a lot more used to paying up-front for a phone, potentially through a third party, and getting a SIM-only plan.
It's a real shame because all I want is a fast, simple OpenSource phone OS (that is as responsive as iOS). AOSP is okay but it does not feel as snappy as when I tried iOS for which I blame Dalvik. There are not a lot of contenders, only Tizen, Ubuntu Phone and plasma mobile. I hope one of them will be installable on the Fairphone 2 in the near future...
There's nothing terribly wrong with the closed parts of this system. Much of the phone is readily accessible to developers, and Jolla provides a lot of support. It's far more open than Android or iOS.
The thing I can't stand about android aps is that many are not available unless you login to google. It really pisses me off too. Why does my banking ap or my email provider ap have to come directly from google?? Is it that hard to host miniature files on the sites for which the apk's are designed?? My email ap says that the playstore needs to update but the apk still works even though playstore is disabled. Stupid, stupid, stupid. On the jolla phone I would install a barebones version of gapps, if at all. Right now I am using ~9 apk's I can find nowhere else but the playstore and tbh If my phone was rooted I would remove them all.
Dalvik hasn't been used since Android 4.4. It was replaced with ART in 5.0, which was released towards the end of 2014.
The idea was great. They tried to keep the Maemo spirit alive. But they failed.
But it didn't take off really much. There is only a small community, and they worked years on a half-decent keyboard. For the rest there are just some LED-based backcovers.
I doubt they will ever try that again.
Does it mean it's incompatible with T-Mobile in US? That's just annoying. Aren't Qualcomm already making universal modems by now?
I really wonder if they think about the product name in terms of people who try to look it up. "jolla" in Finnish also means "on which" (in addition to "dinghy" or some little boat), which makes it really difficult to look up on finnish websites.