Ask HN: I'm way too shy, please help
I stopped playing the guitar because I was too shy to play in public. I couldn't even play for ONE other person. I wrote some songs and publicized them...in forums, to strangers, not to people I knew.
I quit blogging because I just wouldn't tell people that I had a blog. I think I'm kind of scared to expose my work or something.
Needless to say, if I had an app or even started a business, it'd be hell for me to advertise it. I really can't picture me trying to convince someone to use my product; if a cousin asked me what it does, I'd start to stutter.
This applies to live interactions, not stuff like email, forums or HN. I'd have no problem in showing you guys my work and asking for comments and reviews.
What can I do? I think starting a blog again and telling people about it would be a good way to start, because it'd expose my work without me feeling intimidated by the presence of someone else. Would you agree?
94 comments
[ 9.3 ms ] story [ 212 ms ] threadWhen you meet new people, do you show them a different you, one who doesn't write songs or think about writing apps or starting businesses? One who is safe from criticism, because he/she doesn't do anything that would be worth criticising?
The two things are not necessarily related, but I've come to see both of them in myself. For a long time I've had two very different sets of thoughts and activities, internal ones that I didn't tell people about and external ones that I did. I convinced myself that noone IRL was interested in the first set of stuff (projects, niche interests, thought experiments) so I just kept it all to myself, sharing it online or (mostly) not at all. It's only recently that I'm starting to let more of that out, overcoming the fear of either boring people, sounding silly, or being ridiculed.
Things that have helped me have been:
- Getting involved with a group of people (IRL) who are interested in the same things. In my case it's been helping found a Hackerspace, but in your case music could be an equally good outlet and support group. This has helped me get used to talking about those things, and it's helped me feel more legitimate about these things being of interest and worth to other people, and not lame/useless/boring.
- Social media. It's convenient to be able to occasionally give notice of your thoughts and activities to a fairly wide group of people you know in person, without any obligation for them to respond if they don't want to or are not interested. I've been surprised at how many people have shown interest (both online and offline in social situations), though.
I still have a fair way to go. For example, I created a blog to help encourage me to push projects through to completion (or failure) instead of abandoning them early on. However, I haven't written up any of the things that I'm working on yet, instead I can always rationalise an excuse about "no time to write about it" or "not quite good enough for public consumption yet".
From the vague amount of pop psychology that I know, the "two different guys" is the hallmark of an introverted personality, and totally common. Although I think the amount of difference varies between people.
It also reveals the distinction between "introverted" and "shy". We introverted people aren't necessarily shy. It's possible to have a very open, outgoing, public persona. It's just not the same persona that you have when you're by yourself, or perhaps with closest friends.
(Take with large grains of salt, as I'm not any kind of psychologist.)
Question one, are you more attached to your self image as someone who has a real problem with shyness or are you more attached to the idea that you need to solve this problem for real ?
Are you serious about overcoming it ?
If you are, what you need to do is to take steps, possibly very small steps, every day, to push yourself past your comfort zone and be around other people and overcome your shyness.
There is no knowledge that will help you, you cannot read, think, research or write your way out of it, you can only practice and train your way out of it.
- Every day this week I will smile at a stranger. Then smile at two a day, then ten. - Every day I will say 'hello' to people as I pass them and smile. - When I deal with a cashier or serving person I will say "Thanks, you having a good day ?" I will practice small talk.
Action not thought will help you.
Here's another one I came up with: I live in a 12-store building where 44 families live. I will say hi and bye to everyone that shares the elevator with me instead of looking at my shoes and pretend they are not there. And I will smile while doing so.
1) They might respond well to you, which can boost your confidence.
2) They look at you like you're a weirdo - this might seem bad, but it's really a good thing because you will teach yourself that sometimes, there's nothing wrong with you, and it's the other person that has an attitude problem!
Good luck, and please report back to let us all know how you get on :)
What are you afraid of that makes you so shy ?
People rejecting you or ridiculing you ?
Is there something in your past that made you decide to 'play it safe' ?
The instrument thing I can completely relate to, I used to play the saxophone (I managed to blow a small hole in one lung so not any more), and I really didn't dare to play it in front of others, I felt completely naked doing that.
And then one day a guy I knew in Amsterdam changed that, he played as well and said, come, the weather is good, let's go outside and play. He was way better than I was and there was no way I was going to be caught dead playing out in the street (Amsterdam, so you're pretty much assured an audience).
But he kept on needling me until I gave in, one song only. So we went out and played that one song. One song became 10 and before long I really enjoyed it, even if I never played outside again I did lose my shyness about that.
With people in conversation it is a different thing, writing is a lot easier than speaking because when you write you can re-read your words before you click that 'submit' or 'reply' button and that gives you some time to get your thoughts in proper order.
People that are good at 'thinking on their feet' usually have less of a problem with interacting with others than those that need to think for a bit.
I really suggest you read darkxanthos' blog posts about all this, he has a way with words that I can't hope to match and his experiences are chronicled in a way that you actually get something from it that you can use.
There is this song called 'sunscreen', one line in it stands out for me: Do something that scares you every day.
best of luck!
Jacques
Kids are cruel, but they grow up to become adults and those adults can be just as cruel, only they're more clever about it. It never goes away, unfortunately. Pettiness seems to be somehow part and parcel of groups of people.
You have to have a fairly tough skin to get around, and one of the things that being shy is a real problem with is that it opens you up to people that 'use' you simply by being normal to you, they might gain an edge that way.
I've been on the receiving side of that twice, always looking for that pat on the head or if someone is simply nice to me I'll nearly kill myself to please them. It's a weak point in my character.
The cruelty you can learn to deal with, the other part I'm not so sure. Every time something like that happens it dents my self confidence for years.
Still, like that famous ancient story, this too shall pass, and in the end whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger, sometimes much stronger.
I'm going to make a really weird suggestion: forget about a startup or something like that for now, go and do some volunteer work for a while.
It's two birds with one stone, it will have a real and measurably positive impact on peoples lives which will help you to build confidence and it will cure your shyness like nothing else can because it reverses the usual role patterns that you fall in to.
A friend of mine from Canada did that in order to find a way to deal with the aftermath of a car accident she was in, it worked very well for her, I figure it should help you deal with your shyness for much the same reasons.
There are always people below you on the ladder, simply being confronted with a lot of real world hardship will help to give you the tools with which to deal with your own, and will put you in a position of having to deal with people on a daily basis.
(figuring that out helped me a lot)
Where it gets in the way most is telephone calls. Mostly I'm fine on the phone but sometimes I'll procrastinate so much, because I'm anxious about making a phone call, that it will impact my work or social life quite negatively. Unfortunately that stress works against the situation.
My point however is that there is nothing rational in this it is like an occasional phobia. The fear doesn't come from anywhere, it just appears.
It's possible that this anxiety is due to being chastised heavily for not taking phone messages well as a child.
upside, posting a Ask HN is a good stand. Try make a video next.
with respect to app/business, find a partner who is willing to be the face of the company, and operate behind them. no one really has to know that you're supplying the code.
There's so few ways that embarrassment will kill you but there's many ways that being really really alone like that will kill you.
Worst thing happens is you get laughed at, best thing happens is something really good. So focus on the really good. laughed at isn't anything.
Also, at the chance of coming off as cheesy... think about the legacy that you want to leave for yourself. What are people going to say at your funeral? What will your tombstone read? What can you surround yourself with so that every day that you wake up in the morning, you're excited to get at it and live it? I think that's where true happiness comes from, and that's what truly matters in life :) </end-hallmark-card>
I can totally see your point and agree completely. My legacy is something I think about constantly.
When I die, I want to say "FUCK YEAH! Let's do that again!", not "Yeah I felt safe".
Go with the intention of being bad.
After that you'll get over it.
In reality, your circumstances and actions are immaterial to your mental state. (I think this is obvious from the number of depressed people in the USA).
I think instead of asking 'what can I do to be happy', you really have to tell yourself 'I am going to be happy', and then go out and do things.
If you do it the first way, you spend your life coming up with millions of unsuccessful 'get happy quick' schemes, that never quite pan out.
If you do it the latter way, you start out happy, so you don't really need to do anything. But you do do things, because people who are happy go out and get stuff done.
It is drastic because in this situation, you have to be drastic. Shyness a is kind of hesitation. You are about to do something, but you catch yourself and say 'well what if'. Then you backslide from your motivated position to 'maybe i shouldn't', and so, with one hesitation, you've gone from 'doer' to 'didnter'.
So you just have to smother that initial hesitating voice and think drastically about things. If I don't do this, it is one more wasted opportunity in my ever-shortening life.
Every time I've taken a risk where i smothered the initial hesitation it has paid big dividends (not in money).
Maybe this is a reach, but I'll use the Woz as an example. When he was making the Apple I doubt very much he was capable of managing a coherent conversation. He was the quintessential socially inept nerd. 30 years later he's still no Jobs, but he can give a decent interview. I suppose it helps having "fuck you" money, but really he's just had a couple decades of practice.
If you're still in school, I recommend that or debate. If you're not, I hear Toastmasters is pretty decent.
This will get you practice in human interaction which is invaluable.
Some people can overcome these things without help, of course, and more power to them. Just another option to consider.
Maybe you could start by telling yourself that whenever you are too worried about someone's opinion, you are in fact saying "S/He is more important than me".
I am a very shy person. I fear others' opinion. So I turned my fear into a game. For example If I go out, I only talk to girls that intimidate me. During meetings I talk the least, but I take notes, write my talking points before speaking.
In other cases I literally imagine myself standing on the side watching me talk to people. I think this is not me, I am over there, watching my clone do this.
The most extreme I went was having a goal to say hello and smile at anyone I saw in a day (at the store, bank, work, street, etc...). Then I went further and chatted with at least 1 stranger everyday.
Take it as a game. It will be fun and soon you will start not to care.
it's a funny thing, fear. fears always make things seem worse than they are. i think you should do something that would normally embarrass you, and when you are done review what happened as a result. then do it again. each time you get in that situation you come to grips with the totality of your fear, and each time you walk away from it you become that much better at dealing with it.
i think the thing to keep in mind is that yes, you will fail. yes you will get embarrassed. but after going through it you will learn how to deal with it. i'll bet you after the 50th time playing guitar in public or singing all your fears would be gone. maybe you can extend that to other parts of your life too?
i also agree with looking at people in the eyes, smiling and saying hello whenever you pass. it shows confidence and it trains you to cope with people's rejection should they not smile back.
I used to be very shy, so much that I wasn't even able to talk to girls (yes, like the guy in TBBT) and I was always afraid of doing something seemingly embarrassing even if it was not. I cannot even make anything ressembling a dance because I was convinced that people will laugh at me.
One day I realized that this was ridiculous so I've started fighting my shyness one baby step at a time. First, I've started wearing sunglasses which I've used consider pretty lame. I was prepared to be mocked out by people but I noticed that nobody actually care!
Then I got my first girlfriend which dumped me after one month. I was so angry that I went to this party acting like a douche and I got 3 numbers from pretty girls.
So I got the keyword is 'acting'. I didn't like acting as a douche though, so I keep being pretty shy.
Well, like seven years ago I've started playing in a christian ska band. What I did then was this: I will disguise myself as a rudeboy with sunglasses and a hat and a checkboard tie so nobody could recognize me and then I will 'act' as a ska rockstar. That worked pretty well, one year later I was dancing like crazy at the stage and three years later I even got some personal fans :D
Man, being a rockstar even a completely-obscure one is awesome.
So my advice are this two things: 1) Do one little ridicule thing at a time and 2) perform.
So when you want to play the guitar don't do it as yourself. Grab some 70's rockstar wardrobe and act like one. For some strange reason rockstars don't get laughed at. So act as one.
I've translated succesfully this approach to other areas of my life. Two years ago I got invited to give a talk in the first big web conference in Mexico. I was completely nervous but I knew that this was a turning point for my career so I did it.
I watched a lot of talk videos on the web and when I finally got into the stage I stop being myself and acted like a mix between Jason Fried, Gary V and Troy Mclure (the guy from the simpsons). It's funny but acting like an arrogant star boost your confidence.
I'm not saying that it works for everybody, just that it worked for me. I'm still not Gary V but at least I'm not Raj Koothrappali.
The advice about smiling and saying hi, and maybe the toastmasters club...that sounds good.
And the part about playing the rockstar role approaches the problem from a different angle - go and see some people who don't know you as 'old shy person' and instead see you based on their first impression.
Make a list of small things you think you can try. Try them. If one doesn't work for you that's ok, write down what you learn from it not working. Maybe you can try it a bit differently next time, or try something else.
Just keep at it, it usually takes a few missteps to learn new things so don't worry about it. That's part of learning.
Good luck!
A lot of people are in the same boat as you, why should you all be miserable :)
http://socialskydivingwithjustin.posterous.com/
Also, a trick that I use to practice new ideas is to go into places where I don't know a single person. Then, I can try all kinds of crazy things, knowing that I'll never see any of the people again :)
That's why I want to move to the valley to do my startup. I couldn't do it here.
I used to be shy, at school, around friends, even at home (outside of my parents and siblings). Until I was chosen to be one of the lead characters at a school play, which I was pretty much forced to be a part of. I had a stomach ache to the point that I couldn't stand up straight, I was so scared. Somehow though, I was able to recite the lines properly. Thereafter I was complimented so much by so many different people, even people I didn't know (such as other actor's parents), that I was able to gain self confidence and thought that I was truly a great actor who can maybe become one in the future. This play was a turning point in my life, because to this day, I'm not shy, and I know I'm not a very good actor. The worst that could have happened at this play was that I wouldn't be complimented (no way anyone would insult my skills, as it's not expected of a student to be good, let alone amazing). In hindsight, it was worth the shot for a possible less shy future.
As a teenager I had quite a bit of acne, and that caused low self-confidence in me for a while. How I got over it was simple, yet accidental (or subconscious, as there is no way I would have thought of doing this on purpose at that time): overt confidence display. Basically, act extremely self confident, and do things that even the bullies in class wouldn't dare to do. This causes people to look at you in a more respectful way (at least in school, but with some modifications can be applied elsewhere), one in which they stop seeing your face, but what you've done, your history, your "self-confidence", etc. It's kind of like being a fat ugly rock star or famous actor/celebrity/CEO. Overt self-confidence display can lead to really bad behavior though, which I was able to control, but try to keep that in mind.
Currently, I've removed the "overt" part from "overt confidence display." However, it was necessary at first, to make as strong of a first impression as possible.
In theater, they teach actors to consider the audience members as donkeys or some other animal sitting down and watching them, to create a less traumatizing experience. Try to do something similar when you play the guitar, or talk to someone. Who are they to cause you to fumble or stutter or cause anxiety? No matter who they really are, they're no one to cause any of those symptoms.
Sorry about the long essay.
The drama crowd taught me how to relax, how to enjoy life, and how to speak my mind amongst chaos.
It was my mother who forced me to try out (literally threatened me). I was so angry at her for making me do it and so very thankful every day after for having such a life changing experience.
For example, I was cleaning up my backyard today (something mundane) and saw that some flowers had sprouted. I took a picture and posted it on Facebook exclaiming that Spring was here (again, something mundane) and when I go into work tomorrow I'm going to boast about the newfound glory of Spring to every single person I see.
You might take up a simple hobby like running (mundane), but it's something you can easily talk about. "I went for a run today. It was so nice out." Simple. If they're interested, you can fill in some more details about how you now have shin splints or that you stepped in a puddle. If they're not interested, no big deal. You had some top-notch small talk.
Do you judge others work or blogs harshly? Are you judgmental of others opening themselves up and putting their work and thoughts out in public? I'd say the first step is making sure that you are not judgmental of others putting themselves out there and in turn you'll realize the best people (and the only ones you should care about imho) are the ones that aren't judgmental and embrace people sharing what they are thinking and realize its tough to have brilliant ideas all the time.