Ask HN: Laptop that doesn't suck
I bought a MBP Retina 16gb with AMD M370X a few months ago. When I bought it, it was fast and snappy. Now during the summer the fans won't stop, crappy OSX kernel_task throttles the cpu with no way of turning it off and after a few hours regular programming use it needs a reboot because everything runs at a crawl despite only about 4gb mem used.
I don't know if it's the laptop, or El Capitain, but I'm done. Reinstalled osx from scratch, reset the both rams, even tried the 3 different methods of killing acpi but it made no difference. This laptop was a complete waste of money.
I want a lapop of similar spec - the monitor in particular was fantastic, I've heard good things about the Thinkpad t450 and the Lenovo carbon, are there others, what are your experiences with them?
74 comments
[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 92.0 ms ] thread“Activity Monitor may show that a process named kernel_task is using a large percentage of your CPU, and during this time you may notice a lot of fan activity. This process helps manage temperature by making the CPU less available to processes that are using the CPU intensely. In other words, kernel_task responds to conditions that cause your CPU to become too hot. When the temperature decreases, kernel_task automatically reduces its activity.”
There’s a high chance it’s reaching these temperatures so easily due to dust buildup in the MacBook. If it’s possible to open it up, I’d recommend doing so and dusting it out. If it’s not possible to open it up, you may have to take it to an Apple Retail Store and have them do it for you.
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¹ — https://support.apple.com/HT203184
MBPs with discrete graphics cards often overheat and have for literally years, Apple shouldn't even sell them until they resolve the issue but they continue to do so... It is one scenario where the cheaper integrated graphics (Intel Iris Pro) make MBPs better machines.
I've brought this up before and people anecdote me to death, but that's always been my experience, the top end MBP with discrete graphics cannot cool fast enough and throttles like crazy.
I think there are more and more HTML5 video ads though, so you also need uBlock Origin.
> MBPs with discrete graphics cards often overheat and have for literally years
If you're hammering the GPU of course it's gonna create a lot of heat. Then the system will react to cope with that heat. What else do you expect to happen?
The integrated Intel GPU is slow by comparison. If you're happy with that there are hacks out there to tell the system to always use it and not use the discrete GPU but that seems really silly to me.
Packaging hardware into a system without sufficient cooling to actually use it at capacity is just bad design.
Desktop GPUs and CPUs work the same way.
I can't say I've experienced the described behavior except on rare occasions when I need to find a rogue task and kill it.
Check out gfxCardStatus. To be fair, some apps (IntelliJ IDEs + Java6 cough) seem to force it into using the discrete graphics card but even then I don't get the spinning-fan-slow-to-a-crawl behavior.
A jury-rigged stopgap that is surprisingly effective for me is setting the metal-bodied laptop on top of an liquid icepack for a few minutes. kernel_task drops to background noise and I can continue working.
2. This sounds like it could be a hardware problem—try sending it back to Apple. You can get a hardware lemon from any manufacturer.
3. Do you want Windows or Linux? If the latter consider a Dell XPS: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/06/the-xps-13-de-dell-co... or Purism laptop (high DPI version to ship shortly: https://puri.sm/posts/4k-at-last-purism-librem-15-rev2-4k/).
Not sure about Librem 13, but my Librem 15 shipped >1 year after the date initially listed on kickstarter.
BTW it's July 18, not mid-august (unless you're in a very strange timezone).
The ship date on crowdsupply.com changed, in mid-july, from july 1 to mid-august. In other words, it's the edited ship date that is in august. I remain in july.
Do you see the same problems in cooler temps?
that might be your problem. Is there anything else in the room generating heat, besides you and the computer. maybe try throttling down your processor
The keyboard is a little too shallow and the flat profile of the keys makes it harder to find the center of each key. I've never used an Air so I don't know how it compares but it is better than the Macbook (not the pro, this guy http://www.apple.com/macbook/).
The touchpad is the single-button kind, it looks like a MBP touchpad but the actuation force is much higher and gets even higher at the top of the pad. The pad is a lever with the fulcrum at the top, clicking on the bottom is easy but much harder at the top. tap-to-click, multifinger gestures and all that work fine.
I've had the laptop for 6 months and I've already seen some physical problems, the screens backlight flickers (black for a millisecond every 5-ish seconds). the touchpad sometimes 'locks' thinking that there is one finger pressed against it, dragging one finger will scroll instead of moving the mouse.
1) I have Windows 10 installed running on Fusion- 'nuff said. Actually Im sort of kidding, win 10 is a lot better than previous versions heating up the mac. I do have SQL Server Developer installed and do a lot of data heavy development which is what really cranks up the heater. 2) I use Logic Pro and have a lot of DSP running in the form of plugins.
Either way, it gets hot, but doesnt slow down or cause me issues. However I would say that the first thing you need to look at is do you have that aluminum case wrapped in a heat blanket/"protective case"? If so you are not letting the aluminum do its job and dissipate the heat. If not, then something is faulty on that macbook and I would have it looked at. Again, the behavior you describe is not normal.
There's also Microsoft's Surface Book, which is wonderful, but a little too expensive in my OPINION.
I've also had personal success with Asus's ROG range of super-heavy laptops (e.g. G752VT), they literally weight 10 pounds(!) but the cooling is incredible. They're designed for "gaming" but due to the raw power and ample cooling, they're wonderful development machines no matter what the workload or workload type. They're definitely only for "around the house" levels of mobility.
I'm not sure about the T460 in that it is a slight aesthetic departure from the 450. The 460 is more tapered while the 450 is more boxy. And I like the boxyness of thinkpads.
What's not to like about the 450 is single expansion memory stick. There is 4GB soldered to the mb so (afaik) unless you're running 8gb total you'll be in single channel memory mode.
I also like that you can order it without a camera.
If you're a developer that's a fan of running your own systems, Thinkpads can generally run Linux systems with minimal effort (seriously - I bought an X220 recently, and getting Windows working on it was more effort than getting Arch Linux to work).
/r/Thinkpad is also a fantastic resource if you want purchase advice.
So, something is wrong with your machine. The OS X reinstall failing to resolve the issue points away from malware, and towards an environmental or hardware issue. If your machine is only a few months old Apple will take a look at it for free, I'd consider that option to rule out any hardware issues if you can't think of any obvious environmental causes (Do you smoke? High temperature in your working area(s)? etc.)
I thought it was HP. Turns out it was a Dell. C'est la vie.
For the OP, what you're experiencing is not typical MBP behavior. Something toxic in your environment, probably in a browser. If you use Chrome, try switching to Firefox, or vice versa (I find Safari is actually the most robust browser I've used). If you want to be radical, try setting up a partition and booting into Linux or Windows instead of OSX.
Nobody makes better hardware than Apple, period. The only thing I've seen that even comes close is a Microsoft Surface Pro. Most PCs are junk.
As to your question, I'd recommend the Surface Book. I got one last December and couldn't be more pleased with it. Hi-res screen, good RAM + HD space, fast processor, keys feel nice to type on...the list goes on and on :)
Propping it's back end up an inch or so (I stick my car keys under it) instead of having it sit flat on my desk seems to make an appreciable difference in performance.
I've never had such a flawless Linux desktop experience. Almost everything just worked out of the box, it's super-zippy, and the laptop is so light and portable. Never heard the fan yet.
But if you want to an external GPU, this is not the system for you. Also, if you get the hi-res screen, you're forced to play the LCD lottery (LG vs. Panasonic, one has PWM, and you don't get to pick.)
Desktop Linux has really come a long way. Just in time too, now that MS is probably gonna force us to 'subscribe' to Windows, send us ads, etc...
Ubuntu works great despite some problems with the keyboard back light turning on automatically with newer, unsupported kernels.
I love how light the laptop is and the display (got the high res) is great.
Another thing that is just beautiful: the support. I got a pixel error on the display, opened a ticket with lenovo support and two days later a technician showed up at my place and changed the display (worth a few hundred bucks) in 10 minutes, let me verify that it was fixed and took off. And I was in a foreign country at that time. I loved it and tell everybody about this great experience. I don't think the apple store can even remotely compare to that.
edit: Oh, and the quick charge. THE QUICK CHARGE!! Only 10% battery left (still >1.5 hours) and 10 minutes near a power point? It will charge up to maybe 70-80% in that few minutes. If you travel a lot this is fantastic. Combined with deep sleep (laptop goes from standby to hibernate after a set amount of time, 3 hours for me, great if you don't know how much time before using the computer again) the battery was never a problem.
I've been saved by the on-site service a couple of times, it's really good (just wish 3 years of it was still included by default - those were the days!)
- MBP Retina (13", late 2013)
- Asus C200MA-DS01 (Chromebook thingy)
- X1 Carbon (3rd gen, 8GB)
- iPad Air 2 (WiFi)
They all suck. All of them. Period. End of discussion.
That said, the ones that sucked the least for my lifestyle of web development, writing and email are (in order):
1. X1 with Ubuntu 14.04
2. iPad Air 2 paired with a linux VPS w/remote desktop
3. Chromebook
The X1 takes the cake because of the weight and the ability to have a full OS on it. The iPad A2 comes in as a close second, only because it requires a bluetooth keyboard and internet to be useful. The chromebook takes 3rd because I cheaped out and didn't get one with a 1080p panel in it. I'm convinced that a 6+ hour ultraportable laptop would displace the X1, and can't wait for my budget to let me pick up a refurbished Pixel.
It'd be nice if you explained why they sucked