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Ask HN: What are your AdWords Ratios?

42 points by cryptnoob ↗ HN
I'm launching an adwords campaign, and having very little success. Only two clicks to my site in three days. Obviously I need to change things, but it occurred to me that I have no idea where to focus my efforts.

Should I focus on more ad impressions (raise my CPC and add keywords), or should I focus on changing my ad text, to make better use of the page impressions I am getting?

How to decide? Ask HN. What is considered an acceptable ratio of ad impressions to clicks? The answer to that will tell me where I'm going wrong.

30 comments

[ 5.9 ms ] story [ 52.1 ms ] thread
LoneCoder
Be patient and keep at it. Sometimes a campaign will run for weeks before it will find a good spot and come alive.

My CTR's are between 0.5% and 1% on the content network (which is a totally different market from search).

In my case the CTR is directly proportionate to the number of times I can use the word "free" in the ad. Sometimes changing just a single word can double the CTR.

vampirical
CTR: 1.5% including content network (2.5% search only) I'm being a bit cheap recently and staying around 3rd or 4th position (avg CPC $0.30-$0.60).

With adwords I focus on ad quality and click through rate over all else, the better you perform the more you are rewarded. Make sure you have enough impressions with well targeted keywords first and then over time adjust ads and phase out keywords based on performance.

Avoid tossing in the kitchen sink of keywords, do your research and make your list of keywords, focus a bit on the top and bit on the long tail (oh so much cheaper).

patio11
In general, you want to maintain a CTR above 1% or you'll find Google gives your spots to someone who actually generates revenue. This of course depends on the competition in your particular niche.

You don't make bingo card software, so it is likely irrelevant, but I get about 3.83% CTR on ads on the search network. (That excludes my holiday campaigns, which -- when Google actually approves them on time -- are so effective they should be illegal. 10%+) Things that have helped me: Conversion Optimizer, writing copy until it "clicks" with the users, and a few years of work.

By way of comparison, I only get about 2% or so on the content network.

After you've got a better CTR (and, not incidentally, are spending more money) you'll see Google offer you more impressions, and then you should start working on your CPA, because if that is doing poorly all the clicks in the world won't help you.

AdWords gets fractally complex if you're new to it, since you have to balance your business requirements against Google's interests and policies (which are not disclosed in a thorough fashion, change frequently, and are capricious and arbitrary). Best of luck to you.

cryptnoob
Sounds like I need to work on my ad copy. My CTR is less than 0.3%.

One of the things I am doing that I thought was clever, but perhaps, not so much, is including my price in the ad copy, on the premise that I don't want to pay for clicks from people who aren't willing to buy. Perhaps that's optimization that's better left for another day, however.

patio11
That works for some people and has a negative effect for other people. I'm in group #2. Test test test.

You may already know this, but on the off chance you don't: if you match words in the query in your title or text, Google will bold them for you, which tends to increase CTR something fierce. You can do this with dynamic insertion ("Google it") or by organizing your ad groups in a thematic fashion, which is something you should be doing anyhow.

Pretend you're a pet store. If you dump everything into one ad group and write generic copy, it will typically not get bolded. If you segment your ad groups well, words about dogs in group Dogs match ads about dogs (thus bolding the ads), words about cats in group Cats match ads about cats (thus bolding the ads), etc. Plus since folks are in a searching mood you should make it abundantly clear that you have exactly what they are looking for. (Goes for the landing page, as well.)

bemmu
I've seen that advice about maintaining several ad groups before, but I'm still a bit skeptical. I've assumed ad groups are just an internal convenience tool for advertisers and that all the ads get dumped into the same auction in the same way in the end. Has it been shown somewhere that Google really uses information about your groupings when it displays the ads?
rmc
Try both? Wait a few days, see which works better. It's better to have actual evidence for what works for your market
michael_dorfman
I've separated my campaigns into CPM on the content network, and CPC on the search network.

My CTRs range from 0.5%-2.5% on Search, and 0.03%-0.3% on Content.

(Avg Pos is 2.6 on Search, 1.2 on Content)

kvs
Has anyone tried advertising on Facebook? Is the CTR and conversions better there compared to Google? I lose money on Google adwords.
JeremyChase
I have done several campaigns on Facebook and found the CTR to be higher than Adwords, and CPC was lower. Unfortunately I found that traffic from Facebook didn't stick very well, so it was a wash.
callmeed
I tried Facebook for a while. My CTR was lower than Google. I suspect this is because you're targeting impressions in a totally different manner. That being said, clicks are usually cheaper and conversions off my landing page were decent.

Another thing that bugged me about Facebook was that my Google Analytics numbers for visitors from FB never matched what FB was charging me. FB always showed roughly 1-5% more clicks than GA showed visitors.

ryanwaggoner
FB always showed roughly 1-5% more clicks than GA showed visitors.

People without javascript enabled, or people actively blocking GA?

terrellm
I've done CPC advertising with Facebook and found the quality of traffic to be lower than G/Y/M but the lower CPC cancels out and makes my cost per conversion similar.
endlessvoid94
It DEFINITELY depends on your site. I've been far more successful with facebook ads because my site targets males 18-35 who smoke and have certain words in their profiles.

It kicks the shit out of adwords, but I imagine this is due to my content.

webwright
The only thing that matters is CPC and LTV (lifetime value of your customer). If you know your LTV is $50, you can afford $50/click.

You get NO value from raising your bid except better placement and more clicks. I'd first try going long tail and bidding on MORE keywords (with low bids). Exhaust that option before you raise your bids.

Work on your copy, too. Adwords makes it easy to test different ads. Test a lot. Steal shamelessly from the #1 ad slot in terms of style.

dminor
Unless you convert 100% of your clicks, you probably want to pay attention to CPA rather than just CPC.
petercooper
If you know your LTV is $50, you can afford $50/click.

Only if your conversion rate is 100% - which it never will be :-) You need to go a bit further and multiply by your conversion rate. So 10% conversion rate == $5/click. (Not accounting for making a profit, of course.)

sharpn
And consider the time value of money - if the LTV is $50 over 2 years, you need to calculate the net present value of that cashflow to you in today's dollars (which will always be less than $50).
adamtmca
By definition LTV includes a discount rate, I'd bet he's using one.
webwright
Ack, yeah-- mispoke. You can afford to pay $50/customer. Conversion rate is obviously a big part of that. /facepalm Sorry for not paying better attention to what I was writing.
petercooper
"We all make mistakes" said the dalek climbing off of the dustbin.
callmeed
"If you know your LTV is $50, you can afford $50/click."

This doesn't seem right. A click != a conversion

If my LTV is $50 and my landing page gets a 10% conversion rate, then I can afford $5/click.

il
You're not getting a statistically significant volume of clicks to make any decisions. Don't raise CPC too much until you know your exact CPA/conversion rate for that traffic source, you'll be burning money.

It seems that your campaign is poorly organized- you need to start with broader keywords to get more volume and then zero in on the profitable/high CTR keyphrases.

Be sure to try the content network as well, way more volume there.

qeorge
Don't raise your bids to try to get more clicks - work on your ad copy first. You can get over 1% CTR even in the 9-12 slots, so don't throw money at an ad until its working.
terrellm
There is not a single answer in my opinion. I like to focus on cost per conversion since I know what a conversion is worth to me. Another metric I like to watch is total conversions.

It's a balance between optimizing for ROI and optimizing for total revenue. If I can get 50 signups/month at $3.50/conv and can get 75 signups a month for $3.85/conv, I'll increase my bid so long as it increases my total revenue.

CPC on the content network is useful for branding as you receive exposure every time your ad is displayed, even though you only pay when someone clicks.

Are your keywords highly searched according to the https://adwords.google.com/select/TrafficEstimatorSandbox? If so, you may have to increase your bid until you build an account history and quality score.

BornInTheUSSR
Maybe you're already doing this, but you generally want to optimize the funnels from impression -> click -> landing-page -> some conversion event. Focus on one at a time. To get better click-through rates, ensure that you have tight integration in your ad groups between the keywords and the ad copy. If you're not using keywords people are searching for in the ad, it is much less likely to be clicked. Also try dynamic keyword insertion in the ad copy if you don't feel like breaking up your ad groups. It's a bit of work, but once you find a combination that is effective, it's a matter of continuing to test new keyword permutations and dropping the stinkers to laser-target your adwords campaigns for high ROI.

It is also generally a bad idea to include price in the ad copy. You want to give enough honest information about what you're selling to make an interested user click; it is the job of your landing page/web site to build value and sell, but test to see what works for you. Hope that helps, good luck.

fjabre
It might help is you tell us what you're trying to sell..
workwells
You should be able get to 3.00% plus CTR on Search network without a lot of work. If you have limited budget, turn off Content ads. It will gooble your budget, giving you little in return.

Concentrate on writing better ads. Keywords your bidding on should be in the ad. Create adgroups for like search terms. Have at least two or three different ads for each adgroup.

The landing page is just, if not more, important than the ad copy. Keywords should be in the Title, and meta description tags (Google ignore meta keywords), in a H1 headin, in the first sentence of the first paragraph, and another time or two on the page. If you want a good CTR, the landing page is your friend.