We're Andromium. Making the Superbook, a $99 Android Laptop Shell. AMA
Hey HN!
There have been a couple HN posts that others have posted about our Kickstarter for the Superbook, our shell that turns any Android phone into a laptop for $99. We didn't see them until fairly late, so wanted to do an AMA, answering questions about the technology, its applications, our production schedule, manufacturing costs (how we can price it so low), or just anything else in general.
Also wanted to put out an open offer to stop by our offices on 5th and Mission and play with the current working prototype (bring your Android phone too!). Just email me at andrew@andromiumos.com.
Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andromium/the-superbook-turn-your-smartphone-into-a-laptop-f
152 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 200 ms ] threadParticularly relevant is the portions on the use of the DisplayLink 4xxx chipset, USB-OTG, and battery size
See: http://www.displaylink.com/downloads/android
Btw because we use DisplayLink, you can also use the Superbook as a secondary monitor / keyboard / mouse for windows tablet,s laptops, and PC sticks.
The benefit of having everything on one computer is that you don't need to sync files and constantly upgrade multiple devices. You get to stay in one computing ecosystem.
I have an Android tablet (Samsung Tab Pro - the 12" beast). An experiment at replacing a laptop on some outings. I bought the A$140 Logitech keyboard / cover, which is good but not great, with some keys being a bit recalcitrant.
Some UI features are frustrating (example: alt-tab brings up the alt-tab switcher - you need to alt-tab twice to move to the most recent process, and toggling between two or three apps on the top of the stack is a common use case for me if I'm trying to do Real Work). An Android problem, I concede.
Given that context - how good is the keyboard, and how are you shipping keyboard + screen at less than a Logitech keyboard - I know, retail, scale, brand mark-up, two years later, etc ... but nonetheless?
Does the app smooth out some of the frustrations (f.e. the alt-tab problem) of working with Android with a keyboard & mouse as though it's a real grown-up DE? Is the app going to offer an increasingly customisable experience, or does it defer to the phone's native Android (and skins) features?
How does it feel - I know you're biased, but have you tried some phones that it just doesn't work on, and/or have some benchmarks or recommendations? I'm on an original Nexus 5 - which still performs adequately, but with low expectations on a phone interface - how well would it drive the Superbook?
Keyboard: Think of the keyboard of your standard Chromebook. That's the keyboard. We have to use off the shelf, component parts that are fairly common in order to keep costs low.
Screen: Basic screen is a TN 768p. It's not fantastic, but at a 11.6" screen size, it's fine. For an extra $30, you can get the IPS 1080p upgrade. They're pretty solid.
Keyboard / Mouse / Alt-Tab frustration: Yep. Our software mainly spends a lot of time making the experience of using keyboard and mouse decent. We do take on a number of the phone's native features, but desktop experience optimization is why we built our app - it's the missing software link. For those of you with tablets and usb mouse / keyboard that want to give it a try, test out the beta: play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andromium.os&hl=en
Phones that don't work: Yea, definitely lower end phones, phones with <2GB RAM run a little rough. There are still a bunch of software features to add / fix / optimize. It still has a bit to go before we hit full desktop parity. We see this as a software problem that we just need to spend a bunch of time on.
I would really like to see a slot for the phone, like the old Asus Tablet where you could insert a telephone in the back.
The slot is interesting, but makes it hard to fit with every phone. One of the biggest challenges of Android is the fragmentation across devices, OSes, and experiences. We wanted to make this accessible to ALL Android devices, so that's why we opted for the side mount option instead.
I think another reason for the reputation is that crowdfunding is often a necessity when there is a lack of sufficient capital to carry out the project to completion. For hardware, with long lead times and multi-level supply chains lack of sufficient upfront working capital. The attractiveness of crowdfunding when faced with working capital shortfalls means that projects likely to run out of money are more likely to wind up with overly optimistic pre-sales pitches on crowdfunding sites.
Which leads to my question: Since crowdfunders are investors, is there a place where prospective investors can see the full company financials including cash on hand, operating expenses, accounts payable, receivables, and all the other documents that due diligence would suggest?
That's not to say that there are not crowdfunders who are having fun funding projects while recognizing there is little or no chance of delivery. What I am saying is that the reputation comes from people without that view of the world.
All that with the caveat that my definition of 'donate' appears to have a different connotation.
Your making an effort to combat that perception is a good move.
But if I buy a $300 smart lock and it never ships or it ships to me a year later and is so poorly-designed as to be completely useless, it starts to feel like a really bad store.
I think if it feels to backers like a store, it'd be nice if Kickstarter and the people who put projects up treat it like one too.
Will be back on in a couple hours to answer any remaining questions. Thanks HN.
And actually of all of the various attempts at this, the primary failure was that the software experience was so poor. We've been working on the software side (Andromium) for over 1.5 years, with a bunch of feedback from a pretty awesome community :)
Can I enter directly to the phone with the keyboard? Does the phone screen show on the large screen without Andromium? Is the large screen a touch screen?
Even more important -- if I have a rooted/virtual machine instance of a standard Linux distro running on my smartphone, can I use that? Do I have to use Andromium if I have a setup like a rooted chromebook? Turning the smartphone into a laptop it seems the biggest limitation would then be the app store. I don't want it to "feel" like a computer. I want it to be a computer -- OS and all.
One final question. What is your privacy policy, open vs closed source and permission requirements for Andromium and why?
This is a great idea, but I am raising a serious eyebrow at the Andromium aspect of it.
The answer is Yes. As long as the device you're working on as a displaylink driver, you can use it. In fact:
Superbook + Surface tablet: https://vimeo.com/176370847 Superbook + Mac: http://imgur.com/a/oZwwN Superbook + PC Stick: http://imgur.com/a/eTbtm
Full list of permissions can be found on the app page: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.andromium....
There a ton of permissions we ask for in order to make the experience smooth. To be honest, we've been focusing less on privacy and more on just making a solid desktop experience. We can definitely be more intentional in our permissions as we mature as a startup.
PS, would love that it was backlit, that is literally the only complain I have with my Asus UX305CA
Yes, we've gotten a ton of good feedback that people are willing to pay for a premium version. If we hit the 2.5M stretch goal, backlit will be a possibility :). We like it, but we also did a survey of our backers that said ~50% would pay for it.
Congratulations to you and your team for making this real!
I'd like to add one more "no" vote for backlight keyboard.
It requires a board layout change, and carries higher risk of production delays.
I think the most important thing is to get this one out of the pipe, and get to the next version of the product, like Pebble did.
Here's hoping that the 1080p screen doesn't require physical or electronics changes.
Can't wait to use your device!
Not an Ubuntu touch expert, but would it be compatible? Just plugging it in and have what ubuntu want to reach? a complete linux distro on the go? If not, are you able to support it?
Is there inspiration or parts you can share with Remix?
[1]: http://liliputing.com/2016/01/remix-os-for-pc-how-to-install...
Do you think this will be a viable alternative for coding while traveling and dont have a laptop?
Things you can do:
1. Install a debian chroot (gnuroot is your friend), start an x server and just run eclipse. You're going go to awful performance but hey, that's the hardware.
2. Run eclipse somewhere else and display the output on your tablet. It's going to work mostly okay until connection drops for whatever reason. Also, you need some good hardware somewhere, accessible somehow. And you're likely to have to pay something for it. I had a very positive performance with x2go but you're still under the assumption that network is fast and you have a very low round-trip-time.
You just can't expect to have optimal performance on super cheap hardware with very little resources.
[1] https://github.com/termux/termux-app [2] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rhmsoft.ed...
Where I find Android (and iOS) imho falls behind vs. desktops is the web browser, working without the Firebug-inspired tools and inspectors that ship with browsers today is a big ask! Firefox supports extensions on Android which might mitigate that.
Video extension for multiple monitors. For example the ability to plug my phone into a dual monitor setup for coding.
A 13" primary monitor.
Touchscreen on the primary monitor for those annoying times when you forget it's not touchscreen.
USB ports on the device so I can plug in a wireless mouse and keyboard.
Standard Linux OS virtual machine or rooted a la chromebooks.
Then I would carry my phone between home and work and plug it in both places. No more need to carry a laptop. You could pick one of them up and take it with you for travel. That would be beautiful.
I currently tote my 13" laptop around and plug in an extra monitor and wireless usb mouse/keyboard at the endpoints.
Check it out:
Surface + Superbook: https://vimeo.com/176370847/ddd187ceab Mac + Superbook: http://imgur.com/a/oZwwN PC Stick + Superbook: http://imgur.com/a/eTbtm
Is a solution technically possible where the phone is connected to a normal desktop/laptop via USB, and I could extend in to the phone via a semi-full screen portal?
What limitations are there that are preventing this from happening?
Also, on Reddit it was mentioned that you have a headphone jack, does this involve a codec and pre-amp hardware? Does this increase the price or complexity?
We could at some point, but our goal isn't to support windows. Our belief is that device convergence will happen and Android phones will lead the way.
We don't have a headphone jack! Sorry if there was any misinformation / if I messed up there. Lots of chefs were in that particular AMA kitchen. This one: just me.
Or hell, even as a tty/dumb terminal for a random linux box?
Actually have only sneaked this to our commenters. Will do an update to everyone soon...
If you release it for Raspberry Pi, you could get a lot of exposure on techy blogs, that's essentially free advertisement to reach many more core customers, I think you're underestimating what level of goodwill it might bring.
I would be very interested in that - a fully functional laptop whose brains are the size of a quarter or a pack of gum ...
Comments ?
EDIT: ahh, I see your picture of this running off of a pc stick: http://imgur.com/a/eTbtm that is very, very interesting.
However, the intel compute sticks male plug ("the plug") is HDMI ... are there any compute sticks like this whose plug is male USB and could be connected without a cable/dongle/adaptor ?