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Ask HN: What should I buy? Macbook Air or Dell XPS 13?

18 points by tsriram ↗ HN
I'm looking for a Linux (well, Unix based) laptop for programming. XPS 13 is too tempting. How does it compare with Macbook Air in terms of performance (mainly SSD)? Also, would you recommend getting XPS 13 and installing Linux? or get the XPS 13 Developer Edition?

I have not used Mac yet and am not a fanboy of Apple (yet!). Anyone who has used both?

Thanks!

42 comments

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nikmobi
I would always recommend a MacBook. I used to always stick with various non-Macbook laptops (Sony, Samsung, Lenovo, etc). I switched to a MBP a few years ago and don't think I can go back. Have bought 5-6 different MacBooks since.
Analemma_
For the MBP I think there is no argument. The OP is asking about the MBA though, and then it gets trickier because Apple is still shipping it with that godawful 1440x900 screen. Computers like the XPS 13 have really leapfrogged Apple in that respect. There are still a lot of pluses in the MBA's column but having used high-DPI screens, I couldn't go back to that one. Don't forget that Dell ships the "Developer Edition" with reasonably robust driver support out of the box.
ramblerman
Given the MBP is currently more than 2 years old, and there is still no sign of an update I'm not so sure.

I own a mid 2012 MBP (16gig ram, ssd, retina) and really want to upgrade pronto.

guitarbill
> because Apple is still shipping it with that godawful 1440x900 screen

This. The MBA is fine for most things I do; in fact I prefer a slower CPU if it gives me more battery life. But the screen is so bad I regret getting the MBA anytime I look at a different screen, including phones.

edit: however, I recommend the MBP. I've only had bad experiences with Linux on laptops, which I have to use for work. HiDPI sucks on Linux. You'll get conflicting advice, most of which is useless because maybe the person telling you <Linux dist> is the best" really likes tweaking <Linux dist>.

dvhh
you could also install linux on a mac ( macbook pro ), last time I looked at a mac it was possible.
shams93
Yeah these days if you want a linux laptop you're going to have a better experience either installing linux under bootcamp on a macbook, or getting a laptop with linux pre-installed, or getting a chromebook and running ubuntu under crouton. The dual boot days are basically over. If you have windows often its boot load locked into windows10. You can run bash ubuntu under windows 10 now, but you still have the overhead of running windows10 itself compared to the speed and efficiency of running a linux desktop like xfce.
ckdarby
Highly recommend the Asus zenbook. Was able to run Ubuntu right out of the box with everything working aside from having to rebind the screen brightness keys.
TimothyE
+1 for the Zenbook. I've got a UX31A (which uses the same body as the Air) and I've been running Ubuntu pretty much stock for 3 years on it. Best ultra-portable I've had (had a couple of the older XPS 13's but not the newest)
llamaz
What? I'm dual booting ubuntu on a macbook air right now. It works perfectly, apart from the webcam

(well...until I upgraded to xenial and systemd. Now I'm using OS X. I'm not really helping my case here)

rayalez
Have you considered ThinkPad X1? I got one and I'm really happy with it.
llamaz
I'm don't think anyone should buy from IBM after they bundled malware with that one laptop
yazr
This is like switching cable company and expecting to get better service ;(
TooSmugToFail
I own a 2.5 years old i7 X1, and it made me start contemplating abandoning ThinkPad brand after 10 years of loyalty.

The battery life is poor (3.5 hrs max), and I had to replace the CPU fan a few weeks ago (free of charge, thanks to 3y warranty).

What's worst, however, is the deterioration of customer support. Lenovo has introduced this 'community' concept where users are expected to post their woes to a forum, hoping that a mix of other users and Lenovo affiliates (not sure whether they are employed by Lenovo, or just volunteering) would solve their problem.

It's stupid to the point of hurting their sales, for example in cases where you want to check compatibility of an accessory you want to buy.

But more importantly for me as a customer, if I forked out a premium price for a top of the line product, I want to be sure there's a quick way for me to reach a live person to address my problem; I don't want to have to post to a forum for a community to solve my problem.

ThinkPad franchise has gone down the drain after IBM sold it to Lenovo.

eeZi
> What's worst, however, is the deterioration of customer support. Lenovo has introduced this 'community' concept where users are expected to post their woes to a forum, hoping that a mix of other users and Lenovo affiliates (not sure whether they are employed by Lenovo, or just volunteering) would solve their problem.

... but there's still regular customer support you can call. The forums are optional.

My T460s is the best laptop I've ever used btw. They reverted to the old trackpad, it's as light as a Macbook.

TooSmugToFail
> but there's still regular customer support you can call. The forums are optional.

Maybe in the US and some other major countries, but not in the 'rest of the World' countries...

mSparks
At the risk of sounding like a Carlsberg advert, XPS13 is probably the best laptop I have ever used (if not the best computer).

Still has windows 10 on it (my only windows machine) since I need occasionally to use the latest versions of office, and I use eclipse for the odd bit of programming I need to do away from my main dev machine (common workspace with linux is awesome).

Macbook Air was good, in 2008. couple of the staff use them.

Be aware, unlike the Macs the different versions of the XPS13 over the years are very different machines. Only this years model has the 14 hour battery life for example. But many stores (such as Amazon) stock old models.

I was actually commenting to collegues last week that Dell appear to have become the world leader in "real" computing - laptop, desktop and server. They have a lot of skeletons to shake though before they are perceived that way.

atmosx
The main reason for going Mac IMHO is the OS which feels like 2016 compared to Linux. If that's not what you want go for the XPS
calgoo
And I see it totally reversed. I see OS X as a pile of junk that has not been updated since 10.1.
chmaynard
> OS X ... has not been updated since 10.1

That is false. If you decide to take an extreme position to attract attention or vent, at least say something intelligent.

56k
Why can't I downvote you... It's only showing arrow up
altano
If you have a Microsoft Store and Apple Store nearby, just go check them out in person and decide for yourself. I have both and prefer the XPS 13 hardware, mainly the high resolution display with almost no bezel, but both are great.
bricss
Dell should you buy-out
IlPeach
Have an XPS13 Dev edition. Really solid and great hardware, especially considering the price you pay for it. As many have said the MBA is overpriced and have old hardware, definitely not worth.
dacm
I'm in a similar situation to yours and been reading some positive reviews about this https://slimbook.es/

They seem to be very responsive in terms of doubts, questions, etc. but as most small companies their main disadvantage is brand awareness when compared to Dell or Apple. But of course this is greatly compensated by a cheaper price.

56k
That looks like a MacBook Air clone.
harel
I recommend going for the thinkpad carbon x1, it's the same form factor of Mac air, looks better in my opinion and has one of the best keyboards on a laptop that size, not to mention it's developer friendly (has actual page up/down, home/end keys). I'm running Ubuntu on mine (3rd gen) without problems. The 4th gen ones can take 16gb ram as well.
wrong_variable
Just a quick question !

How would you put ubuntu on it ? I have tried changing the boot partition to GRUB and somehow windows still ends up loading !

like how is that even possible ??

rochak
I guess you need to do a boot repair. All you need is the same bootable flash drive and follow instructions online as to how to repair GRUB. This kind is think l thing happens a lot, happened with me too. If the problem persists, contact me, I'll mail the steps.
afghanPower
Use your bootable Linux usb/disk and: (easy way) : install "boot-repair" and run it (harder way) : chroot into the linux partition and run "sudo update-grub"
berberous
I have the X1 and its ok I guess, but it has an awful touchpad, short battery life, and I generally think macs are much nicer. But the Air is old at this point and has a terrible screen. If you can't afford a newer model, maybe the XPS is the way to go. I've never used it so I couldn't say.
superswordfish
I am running Xubuntu on this thing and I hate it so much. Palm detection is so broken that even after tweaking Synaptics and trying libinput (customized it "perfectly" under Arch with no improvement already), I had to disable the trackpad. The pointer nub on new Thinkpads is terrible now that it's secondary, so I have to set low sensitivity.

Colors are messed up with poor contrast. Windows looks much, much better. I messed around with exporting color profiles and importing other users' color profiles with no real improvement. So it's really only useful as a headless machine or in low light. Which leads to the next issue...

External displays don't work properly with lid closed unless you boot with the lid closed. Even then if you suspend, you will wake up with no screen. If you set to "turn display off" on lid close, then when you close the lid the cursor becomes completely erratic and unusable. I'm sure this can somehow be fixed with some arandr and acpid scripting, but seriously fuck that noise.

The keyboard is crap and the form factor hurts my hands. Even my old R500 education line Thinkpad is better in this regard.

It sits on my shelf and collects dust. Every now and then I bust it out because I love programming on Linux, but always go back to the MBP for the reasons mentioned. I want to sell the Carbon X1 and regret spending $1500 on it so hard, but I'm wary of my ability to install Windows and get the right drivers on board (have done it, but also was getting terrible offers for it so decided not to sell at the time). And I'm holding out hope that these issues get fixed some day.

Seriously, just get the Mac. It's sad that the state of Linux on the laptop is worse now than it was a decade ago, when you could get a T4* or T6* and everything worked like a dream. A big part of the problem is that non-Apple hardware is utter crap nowadays (not that Apple's stuff is universally amazing). Going Linux laptop shopping right now is the most depressing experience.

RaitoBezarius
It depends on what kind of programming do you do, to be honest. I am using an X230 since ~ 10 months, specs maxed (16 GiB RAM, 256 GiB SSD, i5, Intel Graphics Card).

Well, I can:

- run many VMs

- browsing using this monster of RAM named Chromium

- have as many terminals as I wish

- work on frontend projects (React.js, jQuery, Browserify, Webpack)

- work on backend projects (NGINX, uWSGI, Node.js, Gunicorn)

As for the battery, it depends on how do you use it and what do you install on it. I run on i3, and with my average workload, it can survive ~ 3 - 4 hours. A friend can survive ~ 8 hours, but he has different way to work (no Chromium process, etc…).

The key is what do you want to do? Machine learning? Native programming? Mobile programming?

For example, it makes sense to get a Mac to do React Native / iOS development.

But, the other way: it makes sense to get a ThinkPad / UNIX-friendly machine to do Linux kernel development IMHO.

Anyway! Good luck with your hunt! :)

tssva
If you are in the US and decide on the XPS 13 Costco has the i7 version with 16GB and a 512GB SSD for $1399.99 through today. And after that it is $1599.99 which is still hundreds less than buying through Dell. If you join Costco just for the deal you end up way ahead. Costco also doubles the warranty to 2 years. If you are already a member or know one you don't need to go to a Costco the deal is available on their website. $14.95 for shipping.
trapperkeeper79
I got an HP Spectre 360 .. loving it. Get a USB docking station, an external keyboard and mouse. Awesome dev setup. Oh .. I was an avid Mac user before. Was in the same situation as you. I also thought the only alternatives were Mac or Dell XPS. I then had to waste an hour at a best buy and spent time with all the machines they had in stock. Liked the HP one the best. It has a finicky touchpad but I was able to adjust the trackpad settings to make it usable. Finally ... I recommend Windows Signature edition so you don't have to deal with too much third party bloat.
mcintyre1994
I have an rMBP13 (2015) and have been given a new XPS 13 at work. I'm an Apple fan, and prefer my macbook but I'd go for the XPS 13 - I think the MBA is a bad buy at this point. The XPS 13 has great hardware (it looks so small compared to my rMBP and has a 13" screen still), that display is fantastic and performs great. I can't give anything non-subjective about the SSD but it feels as fast as my rMBP unless Windows is doing something stupid. I don't use the built in keyboard much because it's usually docked at work, but when I've used it it feels good - I haven't used it enough to compare to Apple though. The trackpad is good, and gestures work, which is more than I've ever seen from a non-Apple laptop. I haven't tested the battery at all, obviously MBA's is amazing in practice.

All my complaints are with software (Windows specifically), so just make sure your Linux distro behaves sensibly with a 3200x1800 screen and whatever external monitors you want (Windows doesn't).

aprdm
I am also looking for a computer to buy. Looks like the 13 Mac book pro with retina display is a better value for the money.

I found the dell xps 13 very expensive and heard some people with wi-fi issues.

Both Mac book pro and air seem to be close to change so it might be worth to wait for their next version.

I don't know other brands that people use with Linux.

At the moment I am using a Toshiba that I bought very cheap with i3 and 8gb of ram running Ubuntu 16 and everything just works... Damn marketing/consumer instinct making me want to buy a more powerful machine.

tedmiston
This is going to sound overdramatic, but looking at that Dell logo staring back at me for 10+ hours per day would be unbearable. I would give surprisingly more consideration to the machine if they removed branding on the inside (like Apple does).
akoncius
I used Dell XPS 13 Late 2013 model (with Ubuntu installed), and now I'm using rMBP13. Main difference for me was noise: I was surprised how silent macbook pro is compared to Dell XPS . For XPS it was enough to run something even slightly more CPU hungry even for couple of seconds and you already hear quite loud CPU fan noise. I got used to it, but when moved to rMBP13, I was pleasantly surprised how silent this machine is, even considering that CPU was way more powerful on rMBP laptop. so I highly recommend checking CPU fan on new Dell XPS 13, just to make sure you will not be annoyed by loud fans.
random778
We have a Dell XPS 13 (9343) (originally came with Windows) at work. I used Ubuntu on it and couldn't get the display set up so that menus on IDEs etc. was a readable size. Attaching an external display was a disaster. Then a colleague took it over and put Windows 10 on it. Exact same issue. Anyone else experience this?