HN Explorer

Ask HN: Is it possible to fight back against the “big 4” hiring fads?

25 points by fspear ↗ HN
This post got me triggered https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12348756 as I've experienced the same feelings of worthlessness and inadequacy after terrible interview experiences. I also know a lot of people who have either: quit tech or moved overseas, unfortunately this stupid fad of "algorithmic" puzzles has gotten out of control and it's spreading like wildfire, because everyone wants to be like Google/Facebook/Amazon.

I can understand why some complex algorithm competency might be required at some of these companies but this alpha nerd "dick-measuring contest" needs to stop.

I am angry for the OP of the post above and for my own experiences as well as for many other fellow developers who have been through the same.

I think it's time we fight back as a collective and tell the "big 4" and the big 4 wannabes to go screw themselves, however I feel powerless, frustrated and angry. We can't continue to be complacent, enough is enough I say, let's do something about this.It has gotten out of hand. I refuse to accept this as the status quo.

26 comments

[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 68.3 ms ] thread
dozzie
First, working in Google, Facebook, Amazon, or Twitter is overrated more likely than not. Remember that. You don't really need to work in a big company to have fulfilling job that allows you to grow professionally and pays decently. (Don't be greedy.)

Second, remember that interviewing is both way lane. It's not only a way for employer to assess candidate, it's a way for a candidate to assess the potential employer. Treat it as such.

This may be a cliché, but if all I got asked in the interview was some random puzzles and nobody was interested in the work I had done in the past, I would probably avoid such company. They don't seem to hire based on competency, so I'm likely the first one with the ability to develop and deploy a well-designed system (completely different thing from algorithms). I don't like to struggle with making each and every step. The same stands if they require specific education.

And the last thing, in current landscape there's plenty of jobs in IT and only so many competent programmers, sysadmins, netadmins, or DB operators. It's the employers who struggle with finding good candidates, not the other way around.

atmosx
Offtopic: The 4th big is twitter? I thought it was Microsoft. I also thought that there are at least a dozen companies above twitter as far big goes in any possible sense (revenue, salaries, dev happiness, etc.).
dozzie
> The 4th big is twitter? I thought it was Microsoft.

I don't know, maybe it was Microsoft. I haven't put much thought about what is "the big four". To me, they all fall into the same bucket: big, computers, mostly US.

pyb
There is not a 'big 4' in tech, despite increasingly widespread use of the term.
regulation_d
right? I was like, "hmm, I guess we're talking about accounting firms today on HN. oh wait. wat."
tdb7893
I just did some interviews a few days ago at one of the "Big 4" companies and one thing that struck me was that they didn't seem any happier in their jobs than people other places. (actually the people I interviewed with seemed less happy but that is probably just sample size)
JSeymourATL
> let's do something about this.

Career Capital Theory-

Research shows that the traits that lead people to love their work are general, and can be found in many different career paths. They include things like autonomy, a sense of impact and mastery, creativity, and respect and recognition for your abilities. Once you recognize that these traits have little to do with following a pre-existing passion, and can be cultivated in many different fields, you can safely abandon the myth that there's a single right job waiting out there for you.

On this subject, Steve Martin's advice is solid > http://lifehacker.com/5947649/steve-martins-advice-for-build...

throway21312
But how do you become good? How can you tell if you're improving? It's what I struggle the most with as a student.
jf22
Chances are that because you care about improvement and becoming better, you are.

People that don't give a shit stagnate.

JSeymourATL
> how do you become good?

It helps to have Models. Who are the benchmark leaders in your field? How did they get there? What exactly made-up their mythical 10,000 hours of practice?

Hold yourself up to the standard. Emulate the formula, add your own ingredients. You'll know it's working if you feel stretched professionally.

Josh Kaufman has a brilliant take on acquiring new skills quickly > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsGihiSE6sM

mrits
I have super flexible hours. A private office looking over Austin's green belt. Free lunch. Ability to go to any conferences I want. With my salary I can live just about anywhere I want in the city. Why the hell would I want to work for a huge "big 4" ?
dman
Where do you work?
wprapido
just avoid them. you really don't need to work for the big 4 in order to have a fulfilling job and/or make good money. also you can avoid steve jobs wanna be employers and execs. we are lucky enough that our industry provides lots of diversity and we can be picky
jrnichols
I think that his point is that so many of the non big-4 places are trying to mimic their hiring practices, and that's what the OP is wanting to go away.

I'm inclined to agree with the OP. Not every employer is going to be Google/Facebook/etc, so they shouldn't try to hire like they are already.

freestockoption
I've worked in some big names in tech. What I do notice is that sometimes people go into these companies thinking they've made it and that they will just naturally grow due to being at a big name co.

I've realized that most companies are similar and opportunities don't just fall into your lap. Want a low growth job fixing bugs for 10 years? You can probably get that at Google (or pretty much anywhere). Want a job where you can develop the next big feature in Android? You can probably make that happen, too.

If you want the latter, don't just sit there, fall into a routine, and fix bugs all day thinking that one day a VP will knock on your door asking you to be a Software Architect. Don't become complacent.

ljk
> Don't become complacent.

See this advice a lot, are there any tips on this? make more to-do list? set goals?(how to know if goal is too high instead of myself being too lazy? etc)

petervandijck
Set goals, set them high, make them specific. If you don't achieve them, don't worry, at least you've gone some of the way. You could try out OKRs (Google it) for yourself.
freestockoption
For myself, I will often ask myself something along the lines of: "In my current trajectory, will I be doing the same thing in a year? And is that what I want and will I be happy with that?" So I try to imagine the different paths I can take in my current trajectory and if none of the paths interest me, then I know it's time to make changes. Try to draw out a 5 year plan on a spreadsheet. Aim high, but be realistic.

My main point is, you don't need to work for a big N company to achieve your goals (unless your goal is to simply work for a big N company). The sooner I realized that, the sooner I was able to start working on my actual goals where the actions are vastly different than those of "getting into big N."

e.g. I want to design software, but not necessarily at Google makes it a lot easier to achieve than saying it must be at Google. :)

qaq
You do have an option of not working/interviewing for the big 4 or "wannabes".
DrNuke
Problem is: if you are smart, being an employee just sucks. Realising this opens a different class of problems to you (not to them, they are more than happy to enslave and dumb smart people down).
cbanek
I have to say I agree with all that - and on the company side, everyone also says hiring is broken.

Overall, I think the process is just kind of silly, and I'm sure whoever comes up with a better way will be able to make some good money as well.