Job interview with no specific project details revealed
I just had this strange thing happen. I went to a job interview for a Senior iOS developer, eager to learn about the projects this company might have me work on. I got there and showed them a few things I had done in the past, discussed general background questions, and then tried as hard as I could to get some details about the project itself. Their lips were sealed the whole time. I got nothing out of them other than the technologies and platforms I would be working with.
Is this sort of thing common in the software industry? I know that projects sometimes need to be kept secret for whatever reason, but from my perspective as a job candidate, I need to know about the content of the work before accepting a job -- Does the CEO have a vision with this product? Is this project going to succeed? Who is their designer? What sorts of prototypes have they built? etc.
I say this because I know from my past experiences that my enthusiasm for the job is directly correlated with the degree to which I perceive their projects will be both meaningful & successful.
So now I am in a weird spot because I might really want to take the job, but if I were offered it tomorrow, I wouldn't be able to take it until I get more information about the specifics of the project I would be working on. I want to make sure they have an enthusiastic employee who is eager to do the project because the vision is truly impressive. If I sign an employment contract, and the project is a lemon, I don't want to put them through the trouble of my early exit.
If anyone has run into this problem and solved it, what did you do? My only thought is to be up front about this and tell them I can't accept the job without any specifics about the project itself. It seems like the only ethical thing to do here.
Thanks for any thoughts & experiences you might have
15 comments
[ 5.1 ms ] story [ 66.1 ms ] threadI've dealt with a few clients like this. Most wouldn't say anything till I signed an NDA, usually the first day of working on the project. However, with some, if I came out and said I wasn't comfortable until I knew more, and was willing to sign an NDA, they'd agree, I'd sign, and get the whole spiel.
Here comes the bite: Some would respond to the request by showing me the door.
Information is paramount in business, and some people are simply unwilling to risk letting anything leak till they're ready.
I absolutely agree that faith in a project determines how much effort beyond the norm I put in. [0] However, sometimes you'll just get a job that needs the professional treatment, because it will fail no matter how well you do: but its still a paycheck, and you still have a contract.
If they end up unwilling to let you know more, then try and judge the product on its caretakers, the people you meet. It might be worth the risk of a terrible tedious failure. [1]
[0] On a bad project, I work my hours. On something I believe in, I've been found sketching relationship trees at 4AM because I had an idea.
[1] The last project I had was terrible. The inception idea was fantastic. It got gutted twice over whilst I was still building it. I went from senior developer, to junior. I lost creative input. So, I was pissed off, exhausted with politics, and demoralised. However, I still got the project in on time, to specification, and got a nice paycheck.
Edit: Why I did [1].
I got the impression from them that they wanted more than 40 hrs a week from me, almost to the point of wanting to own me. One of the managers had a problem with me continuing to support my own apps after accepting the job.
For me, that's a pretty steep job requirement. You'd have to really convince me that what you're doing matters and that lives are literally at stake if I don't come join your company. Otherwise you're just being selfish in my view.
I told them I can't accept the job unless they give me more details, and you're right, there's a good chance they will show me the door.
But then I'm pretty sure that's a business I wouldn't want to work for anyway.
In the end though, its not worth risking your humanity over. If they show you the door, it's probably a bullet dodged.
I didn't start in software development: I was in forensics. But, though I loved the work, I didn't love what I found. I was losing faith in people, so I moved away to what had been only an interest area. You don't want to get caught up by a company that eats you alive.
There's not really a bad outcome here, the worst case is you get something boring on your plate.
Though, anecdotally, just about every contract I've had wanted exclusivity, to ensure I didn't steal their ideas, or borrow any code I wrote on their dime. It was annoying, but I mostly dealt with it by: a. Putting my projects on a temporary hold, or b. Getting them to acknowledge I already had support contracts for my projects, and wouldn't they want support from me, too? (I usually have 6 months support in my agreements, after that... Depends how much I like the client.)
But again, it isn't really something to sweat over, but it does seem to be getting more common.
And yeah, part-time software dev jobs seem to be increasingly rare these days. People either want your soul or they don't want anything to do with you. I would be totally happy working half as many hours at the same hourly rate with lower living expenses than working full-time or overtime with a high salary. We all have different priorities. I need my tinkering time.
How are you supposed to evaluate if it's worth your time if you don't know what you'll be working on ?
Had a similar interview once - the guy just wouldn't give me any specific info. Since I didn't know what the role was and I have very wide experience I couldn't target myself, in the end the feedback was that I was too vague !?
Oh, it's incredibly common. Aside from companies paranoid (perhaps justifiably so) about sensitive information leaking out through the interview process, by default many companies use at least the initial stages of the process as a kind of a "one-way mirror" -- in which they're scrutinizing you for ticks, fleas, what-have-you, and only in subsequent stages do they lift the skirts, as it were, on the actual projects you might be working on.
With the apparent basic message in mind that they (and their projects) are so self-evidently awesome that they shouldn't have to bother trying to sell you in the idea of working for them (by say, letting you know what you might actually be working on).
But it could also be much more mundane than that. Sometimes the reason they won't go into details is because they've already decided to pass on you, and so they prefer to cut the discussion short to whatever extent possible.
I think a company like Apple could get away with this because their reputation in the space speaks for them, but this company hadn't ever launched a mobile app of any sort.
Perhaps the best thing in these sorts of interviews is to try and ask as many questions as I can so they have fewer chances to get information out of me.
Don't get me wrong, all of these scenarios aren't good, and it's a warning sign. Personally, the secrecy alone would make me think the job isn't a great fit for me.
> tell them I can't accept the job without any specifics about the project itself
This, if you aren't happy with the arrangement don't do it (if you have that luxury). Gut feeling can be quite helpful.
Once again, not a good sign. It means a few possibilities.
1.) They didn't think I was good enough, so they decided to keep the information secret.
2.) It wasn't really an interview but more of a screening. They wanted to see if I pass their smell test.
Gut feeling overall wasn't good. I'll have to go with that.
I would try telling them what you said here - "I know from my past experiences that my enthusiasm for the job is directly correlated with the degree to which I perceive their projects will be both meaningful & successful."
Then you can find a middle ground - maybe they can tell you about a past project, or maybe you sign an NDA, or maybe they can just tell you.
Turns out that companies blow the Interview Courtship Dance ALL the time. Hence the War for Talent myth.
Push for a follow up meeting with the Hiring Executing, your direct boss. Be candid, tell him you have some areas you need to discuss before moving forward.
Have a solid list of probing questions prepared in advance. If they can't or won't answer to your satisfaction, move on. You've got leverage.