Show HN: Things that help with depression and anxiety
https://trackmystack.com/users/baccheion
You can also join the following subreddit, as the users there regularly talk about and consume many of these supplements/nootropics: https://www.reddit.com/r/nootropics .
Other sites that may be helpful:
- https://examine.com
- http://www.longecity.org/forum/
These supplements come into play after you've ensured you don't have any vitamin or mineral deficiencies (it's common to not be getting enough vitamin D & K, magnesium, and calcium).
If supplementing with vitamin D, then it's important to supplement with vitamin K as well (to direct calcium away from soft tissues to where it needs to go), and to avoid extra/unnecessary calcium supplementation (as vitamin D increases the amount of calcium absorbed through the intestines). Life Extension has a vitamin D & K product which shows a good ratio of vitamin D to vitamin K MK-4 to vitamin K MK-7.
If you have a magnesium deficiency (or want to ensure you don't), the best approach to resolving it is to get one of the magnesium oil sprays (Life-Flo brand if you're not sure), then to apply it all over like lotion (avoiding the "sensitive" areas, as it can sting/burn) while orally supplementing (the glycinate/lysine chelated form is a good one) the RDA. That is, oral supplementation of the amounts required to clear a deficiency tend to be distressing to the digestive system, and it's highly likely enough won't be absorbed. Going the topical route avoids the digestive system, while also creating a signal that you have enough magnesium (the body won't really absorb magnesium through the skin if it doesn't need more, which will result in a white film (dried salt) forming).
As each 8oz magnesium oil spray bottle contains 26g elemental Mg (the body has about 28g all throughout), once a bottle is finished (or a white film begins forming on the skin, implying the body isn't absorbing any more), you can be fairly certain you no longer have a magnesium deficiency.
You can also get a blood test done (RBC magnesium levels or the ExaTest, however, not serum levels, as serum levels can be misleading (the body takes magnesium from the red blood cells to keep serum levels high, so OK serum levels may lead one to believe there isn't a problem, when in fact the body desperately needs more magnesium)).
Many of the recommendations (on the Track My Stack page) work well, but you can also become addicted to them (or develop a tolerance, or have nasty side effects) if not taken properly (frequency and dosage). Therefore, it's strongly recommended that one first properly research each thing (and also discuss with whoever's relevant (Doctor?)).
In any event, safety issues aside, when these supplements/nootropics work, they work well, and can often significantly alleviate or completely eliminate symptoms/issues.
You can also search PubMed ("site:www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed INSERT_SUPP_NAME_HERE") to read through the abstracts of whatever clinical studies exist.
Tianeptine Sulfate is effective for many people with symptoms of depression (not sure about clinical depression), especially when they've failed to respond to SSRIs (while having less potential side effects/issues).
Phenibut is effective for many with anxiety, but one can become addicted and/or tolerance can form, so it's recommended you only take 1-2g (split across 2 servings) 1-2x/week (and that you also take fasoracetam each day).
Memantine is effective for OCD, but it can cause debilitating brain fog (or dissociation), so it's recommended that you start at 2.5mg (or 5mg), then taper up in 2.5mg increments every 3-4 days until it begins working (which usually happens at around 10mg ...
49 comments
[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 96.1 ms ] threadOn top of that, walking about 5 miles a day also has its own benefits that stack well with Vitamin D usage.
Source Naturals, NOW, or Jarrow, whichever is cheapest.
Another sign you may have a magnesium deficiency is supplementation with vitamin D and K resulting in anxiety or difficulty sleeping. That is, you should be able to take D & K before bed without any issues.
http://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item01840/...
I think you meant this product. 1100 mcg of K2 seems a bit high.
Yikes. Please no.
Don't get me wrong. I like /r/nootropics, and I'm glad it exists. I think it's neat that people are willing to risk frying their brain looking for cognitive enhancers, and sometimes I wish I was as cool as gwern and willing to do blind LSD experiments on myself. Very cyberpunk. But telling people with serious conditions to go there for medical advice is dangerous and irresponsible. If you have depression or anxiety, please see a professional.
Also, I'm not suggesting one ignore a doctor's advice or take them out of the loop altogether. Rather, I'm presenting other options (that will likely help many) such that everyone can become more aware of other alternatives.
That said, I don't agree with the advice of the original poster. Self-medicating, /especially/ when you're in the thick of depression, is dangerous; there really isn't a whole lot of data around with regards to either safety /or/ efficacy in patients with depression. It's important that you have a support system around you.
So the paragraph that's buried in the middle -- "discuss with whoever's relevant" -- I think is the crux of it. And beyond that, the most important thing is to begin. Talk to your primary care physician; if you don't trust them, talk to a close friend; find a referral to either a psychiatrist or a psychologist. There are forms of therapy these days that are grounded in evidence, and once you have a support system in place, you might well find that experimenting with pharmacological therapies that are outside the gamut of institutional medicine is something that you want to try.
But if you have pain every day, the most significant bit is that it doesn't have to be that way, and there are ways to treat it; and beyond that, there are tested ways, and it's probably worth going with those first, so that you have the highest probability of feeling better faster, with the lowest risk of feeling even worse or compounding your problems with other side effects.
Also, I'm especially making these recommendations, as standard medications and advice from doctors didn't really help me, but when I tried these alternatives I had better success. That is, these are good things to keep in mind should traditional routes not work out well, or if the side effects from antidepressants or anti-anxiety meds grow unbearable.
My theory is that having the wrong mindset for long enough sets in motion a process that ends up in physical illness, inflammation and nutrient problems - which make the mental illness worse. So people should try learning mindfulness, stoicism, CBT and giving them at least a few months (with a good diet/exercise) before trying this route.
Nutrient deficiencies can cause all sorts of problems - I read about it extensively when I was ill. At one point I was convinced I might have a magnesium deficiency but when I got a proper test done (not the standard one) it showed high levels of magnesium. So, it's not always the miracle that it appears.
If Track My Stack is adding affiliate links, then you can avoid them by directly entering each supplement or nootropic into a search engine. You'll probably be able to get better vendors, prices, and quality that way. I'm mainly using that site to hold the actual stacks, not to suggest where to buy each supplement/nootropic.
I'm annoyed by the critical reaction to supplement suggestions (mainly because no one is being forced to get anything), but on the other hand, I understand the reason for skepticism or lack of confidence. What would be great, however, is a bias toward first looking into what's recommended, rather than just settling into blind blanket dismissal/rejection.
We used the information to choose Viibyrd, a fairly new anti-depressant (2011). I've kind of become an evangelist for it since.
It works like a traditional SSRI but also affects the 5-HT1A receptors. Another great feature of the medication is that it usually takes less than a week to notice results -- and results I noticed.
I've been plagued with anxiety since age 18 and depression since I was a kid. For the first time in 11 years, I'm anxiety free. For the first time in a long time, I'm nearly depression free.
The best part? I'm myself. I'm not dull. I'm not a zombie. Some of my other impulsivity and ADHD symptoms vanished. I'm way more productive, social, and less afraid to take on life.
It was fun and interesting to do the whole supplement stack, but ultimately a huge time and money waster. I spent far less time going to my Psychiatrist and trying different options to get REAL results.
I feel like in many ways Nootropic supplements are the Homeopathy for Nerds -- we're using cutting edge research to anecdotally try to fix our issues, and ignoring that even we're just as susceptible to the placebo effect as the rest of the population.
Here's a good read that's sort of on topic about the stigma of medication and mental illness:
https://themighty.com/2016/02/myths-about-mental-illness-med...
In my case, I was forced to seek traditional help, but that didn't work for me, which lead me to looking into alternatives. I researched for a long time, then came across (and had better luck with) many of the supplements and nootropics in the stacks I link to.
That is, I'm not saying to use this as an excuse to avoid traditional routes; it's more that many either have tried such routes only to see no real improvement, or want to quickly give off-the-shelf options a try before becoming "a part of the system." Not everyone is a fan of prescription anti-anxiety, antidepressant, or antipsychotic medication (or their side effects, especially).
Lots of people go along with the "professional's" prescription, not knowing that these drugs are known to not work very well. They're only used because the professionals think that "they're the best we have at present time," (paraphrasing Harriet Hall MD's quote from skeptic magazine). The thinking is that if the first drugs don't work, they can always "try, try again".
Benzodiazepines are great for anxiety, until they stop working after about 4 weeks. Then you're just addicted to them to keep from spiraling down into an anxious hell.
SSRI's are the epitome of corporate science. Someone came up with the serotonin-deficiency theory of depression, Wall Street came up with a drug to sell, poof everyone got switched from anti-serotonin antidepressants to the new pro-serotonin patent drugs. There are some negative articles about Prozac in the Boston Globe's archives circa-2000, but their exposé wasn't enough to stop the juggernaut. There is now a page somewhere on Wikipedia that talks about why the SSRI's actually work for a small percentage of the people who take it... More often than not, SSRI's have a tendency to ruin people. Lexapro helped my girlfriend relapse, years ago.
"Anti-psychotics" were originally sold as tranquilizers. These drugs are given to difficult patients so that the system can pretend it's helping people, but really these bad drugs make the patient more psychotic over time. Most psychotic patients recover with time and/or sobriety.
See my comment history for references.
What exactly (of what I mentioned above) do you consider pseudoscience? It seems you just like throwing out (as is common with many on this site) "cliche" terms and using them to feel almighty and important. Perhaps you can do as you imply wasn't done (to arrive at what was said above), and provide some evidence or data to back up the accusations you are pointing in my direction.
This is my main problem with sites dominated primarily by Te users (INTJs, ISTJs, ENTJs, and ESTJs): stupid, ignorant, judgmental, and dismissive is often put into play with the belief it's actually astute insight or perceptiveness.
In the future, it would be better if you know (and provide support for) what you're talking about, rather than just throwing out blind blanket BS accusations.
I'm glad these things worked for you. For me I'll see my doctor and dentist yearly, eat 'right', exercise regularly and rigorously, and enjoy and cultivate fulfilling relationships with friends and family.
Drugs can be a great tool for healing and recovery. I remain unconvinced that what you claim is helpful for even a small number of the population.
The idea is to mail a user an EEG, which they rent, then provide real-time feedback to the user. This is called neurofeedback[1] helps the user learn how it feels prior and during various moods and mental states. Overall, this has been around for 30 years, our improvement is that it is doable in the home at 1/10 the price.
We are launching a beta in the bay area soon if anyone is interested.
[1] http://synaptitude.me/blog/neurofeedback-in-200-words/
1 hour in the mid-day sun (shorts + t-shirt) will yield you 10,000 IU in most cases, depending on location. Ideally, go shirtless. Bright sunlight hitting the retina has clinical studies backing its effectiveness in regulating hormones and potentially improving mental illness.
PS: Northern Hemisphere - Need to supplement during winter.
While we're on subject, wild salmon has one of the highest VitaminD counts of all food. One 3oz serving = 500IU. Probably in the top-three healthiest foods on Planet Earth (if you can even make such a criteria)
Today I only have an anxiety thing. The thing that helped? DBT: dialectical behavioural therapy.
So, I am extremely disappointed that it only got (barely) mentioned in passing at the end:
> There are also things like meditation, brainwave entrainment (Neuro-Programmer 3), CBT, etc.
It's great if it's working out for you, but you should consider blood work (or genetic testing) to see if you have any vitamin, mineral, etc deficiencies.
They've mainly tested more common supplements (vitamins, minerals, probiotics, fish oil, etc), but it's still a good site to keep in mind.
Also, if you don't know where to buy some of these supplements, Ceretropic is a good vendor: http://www.ceretropic.com/categories?sort=bestselling . PowderCity as well: http://www.powdercity.com .