Cool info, but I cannot figure out how that chart is organized. At first it seemed almost alphabetical by model, but that's not right. It's basically just random.
The chart suffers from the same problem as the fuel light - how far you can drive depends on both the amount of fuel left and the current driving conditions. I don't see how the chart is any more accurate than the on-board computer, given the difference in MPG for different road conditions.
The on-board computers lie to you so you don't end up stuck on the side of road. The computer tells you that you have no gas when you still have some left.
Interesting--the higher end numbers on many of these ranges with the fuel light on in an ICE car is further than the best-case range on my EV!
I own an older Nissan Leaf and set it to charge to a maximum of 80% per Nissan's recommendation. That gives me an indicated range of 68 miles when I start my trips. Range is never an issue for me personally (and we have a gas car for long drives) but I tell people that if they are the type to stress about driving around town with a fuel light on, they should avoid shorter-range EVs like the Leaf.
Newer Nissan Leaf (Leaves?) do not have that option. I guess this buffer is now built in?
Mine has just passed the 12k mile, I don't notice any degradation. Indicated range is usually 100+ miles, which is meaningless. Once highway driving starts, it's more like 80 miles and is pretty accurate if doing 65MPH. Higher speeds will decrease that range.
Fun anecdote: I went to a park late at night to watch the perseids meteor shower. A arrived near the park with 20 miles remaining. Which was fine, as there was a quick charger nearby.
Me and my wife decided not to waste time and just hit it on the way back. Due to unfamiliarity with the area, I was misled by the GPS and went to the other side of the park. So I had to circle back and go uphill to reach the rendezvous point, a parking lot inside said park. Estimated range showed "---", 7% state of charge.
We had about 8 miles to go to reach the charger. We added 2 more miles by taking a wrong turn in an area with no phone and GPS reception. So 10, which took two times the amount of energy I figured I had.
Since it was almost 3 am, I just drove at the slowest possible speed I could, 15 MPH. Arrived at the charger with 4% remaining(dash showed "--%", still one bar lit). I doubt I would have made it at normal speeds.
Now, this is only possible because EV battery charge is extremely accurate, compared to fuel gauges in ICE cars.
I really wish that they would use HTML tables in their writeups. Being able to Cmd+F for models / makes would be much more convenient than visually scanning images.
Where you don't use html tables (should more image charts be generated in the interim), provide a more sensible ordering. Alphabetical by make, then model, for instance. This one is a jumble and difficult to use as a quick reference.
"Even the simple act of driving with a low amount of fuel in your tank can damage your fuel pump, as any debris or contamination in the gas (which naturally settles at the bottom of the tank), will be sent through your fuel pump when the tank is nearly empty."
I wish I could down-vote this by 1x10^9. What, you think the gas is taken from the top of the tank by a floating tube? The pickup is already on the bottom of the tank, which is pretty dang clean. More FUD spread by mechanics.
A floating tube would present the problem that air might get sent into the engine, the results are described in the article. Hence the intake is at the lowest part of the engine, the only floaty is the measurement device to see how full your tank is. That floaty can have a sliding system to make it adjustable to different tank sizes, if set slightly different then it may cause early or late fuel low warning.
When reading the sentence about debris at the bottom my face went into an unnatural position.
For fuel injection it should not have air in it (messes with volume injection // rich/lean mixtures) , for carbs theres usually a chamber that fills up, that has a little airspace.
What I have heard and seems to make more sense is that fuel is used to cool the fuel pump.
The pump is usually located inside the fuel tank on modern vehicles and submerged in the fuel. The fuel is used to cool the pump during operation. When running low, the pump is exposed to air, runs hotter and may possibly overheat and be damaged.
> The good news is that the "low fuel" light comes on when there's anywhere from 1 to 2 gallons left, which is plenty to keep the pump safe.
Yeah, but you pretty much have to be under 1 gallon for it to be an issue.
Similarly, for what the OP mentioned:
> But modern fuel pumps have a protective screen or porous sock-like cover that catches any contaminants before they enter the fuel system. And those small bits that might get through would normally be caught by a second filter closer to the engine.
The location requires a filter to avoid that problem, regardless of fuel level. xD
> Yeah, but you pretty much have to be under 1 gallon for it to be an issue.
> Even the simple act of driving with a low amount of fuel in your tank can damage your fuel pump...
I agree, driving up to fuel reserve shouldn't be a problem but I wouldn't use the reserve all that often.
Most gas tanks are pretty wide and flat and fuel pumps tend to be built "vertically", so 1 gallon fuel left of 14-16 gal will not cover/cool all that much surface area of the fuel pump.
Yeah but up to the fuel reserve is the level which was under discussion by the OP (which kicks on the light in most cars).
> Most gas tanks are pretty wide and flat and fuel pumps tend to be built "vertically", so 1 gallon fuel left of 14-16 gal will not cover/cool all that much surface area of the fuel pump.
Its intended to operate safely and efficiently at a level equal to or above the fuel reserve.
If it didn't, they would fail frequently in many cars as most people drive it pretty close to E regularly and you'd have in warranty repairs.
Don't want to be pedantic but the article was discussing how far you can "drive on empty" and parent post stated that the warning over driving on reserve in said article is FUD spread by mechanics.
The stated reason may be wrong but it's not advisable to often drive below reserve (on hot days, in many modern cars).
As I stated before, I agree with you that driving up to fuel reserve is usually fine but I would not routinely drive on reserve.
The article disclaimer we are discussing:
> That said, driving on empty can also do damage to your vehicle. If you do run out of gas, you can do damage to your catalytic converter, which may then need to be repaired or replaced. Even the simple act of driving with a low amount of fuel in your tank can damage your fuel pump...
My car happens to have no in-tank fuel pump. In fact it has no pump per se at all. The injection pump mounted on the engine sucks fuel all the way from the tank.
Isn't it more sludge-y at the bottom of a near empty tank? Sucking up a big glob of gunk instead of little dispersed particles must have different possible effects.
I habitually for a long time used to wait until the needle was all the way on E. I virtually always ran it way below 1/4. I am now at 190,000 miles, and have never had the slightest problem with the fuel system.
My distance record was 798 miles. I was going for 800, but my nerve gave out after the low-fuel warning had been on for 50 miles.
However, it had nothing to do at all with gas contamination (the pump couldn't care less), and everything to do with cooling (or lack of, due to the extended low fuel condition). I used to live in a hot climate (30oC every day). The pump self-destructed and part of the casing melted.
It takes quite a few days of constant driving with the gas light on for it to be an issue. At the time, I was filling up just enough to get me from A to B and didn't think it would be a problem.
I don't get why a lot of people ask "how many miles do you get per tank?" Then they just go by x miles when the light comes on. Argh.. Why don't people just use simple algebra and go by MPG!?
I've run out of gas twice, both times in the beater I had as a teenager.
On the first occasion, the fuel gauge failed, so I thought I still had gas. I got used to that after a while. I knew how many mpg I got, and how much gas I'd put in the tank.
Then my odometer failed (I told you it was a beater!). Without that, I was up the creek.
In a Mercedes (at-least the Gulf countries Specifications model), the tank is really empty as soon as the needle hits 0 (Empty), unlike Japanese and American cars, where you can drive quite a bit even after the needle is below the "red" empty mark.
To be clear, the "low fuel" sign comes up well in advance, but as soon as the needle hits 0 (Full is 1. Half Tank is 1/2 and Empty Tank is 0) the car will stop, without any extra buffer for driving beyond that mark.
My 2010 Impreza behaves in much the same way. Light comes on at a quarter tank, and when fuel gauge needle bottoms out you are out of fuel. It's not exactly where the needle points to empty though, the empty line is pretty wide. It's empty at the point where the indicator needle reaches the bottom of that line. There isn't any sort of peg, so you can't really be sure of how much fuel you have left, but at the same time the light motivates me to fill my car way before that point so I don't have to worry.
My (KZJ95; 3.0l I4 turbodiesel) Land Cruiser is completely off its kilter with regards to this - the low fuel light comes on when there's 25 litres or so left - which, if you are on a paved road translates into some 250km/150mi. or so.
In addition to the fuel pump's well-being there's also condensation - if your vehicle experiences large temperature swings, it makes sense to keep the tank reasonably topped up to minimise condensation and water build-up in the tank.
> In a Mercedes [...] the tank is really empty as soon as the needle hits 0
Not in mine (in Germany, recent C class). It depends a bit on whether you define "reserve level" as 0 or not. On the one hand, the needle does go below reserve level all the way to physical zero, but from a UI point of view, reserve level itself is clearly what they want you to see as "running on empty". And that's what they mean in this article, too.
In my car, it actually shows you in the dashboard how much range you got left based on your current driving style, too. I have a medium-power Diesel engine, so that works out to about 40 miles remaining once the warning light goes on, and that's pretty accurate. After half of that is used up, the dashboard stops showing the estimate and instead begins to flash a "fill up immediately!" message.
Why are their charts always an image file? There are so many easy to use charting libraries with sorting, formatting, etc. Even easier to use out of the box with no need for async data...
I rented a 2016 Nissan Altima last weekend for a +1,000 mile trip. I was surprised the when the "low fuel" indicator came on while the diagnostics system reported over 100 miles until empty. I just assumed the diagnostics system was being wildly optimistic about fuel consumption. After reading this article, though, it looks as though I may have been able to drive on a little longer and do some more price-shopping for fuel.
I have a 2014 Nissan Altima. It gets better gas mileage than any vehicle I've ever driven, other than motorcycles. On long highway/interstate trips, I get 550-600 miles on a tank of gas (the tank holds about 12 or 13 gallons, if memory serves).
My girlfriend has been driving it for the last year or so and the only times I drive it anymore is to take it in for an oil change or maintenance, but I often check the statistics and it averages 34 mpg overall (most of her driving is highway). The "low fuel" indicator in it also comes on with somewhere around 100 miles remaining.
I did drive it far enough once without stopping for gas that the "miles left" indicator read "---". I was about 10 minutes from home and figured I'd chance it (there's a gas station at the intersection where I turn off the highway to come home). My thought was that if I had designed the "countdown indicator", I would be in a bit of a buffer so that the car doesn't actually die going down the road when it hits zero, so I was certain I still had enough gas left to make it.
My truck (large 2013 Dodge Ram) averages right about half of that. Its "low fuel" indicator comes on with about 50 miles remaining. The Harley gets around 50 mpg (and offers to find the nearest gas stations when there is ~35 miles remaining).
They forgot one important metric: the size of the tank. This is because for a car with a large tank, it is less costly design-wise to have a larger residual tank space.
There is one thing which simple characterizations like this miss. That is the effect of fuel not lying level, given that at any instant the car may be accelerating longitudinally and laterally, not to mention driving on an inclined surface. So when the fuel is very low, at any given moment it may all be pushed into one end, or corner, of the tank, away from the pickup.
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[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 106 ms ] thread> Here is the range for how many miles you can drive [...] for the 50 best-selling vehicle in the United States in 2015.
Matches up with http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2016/01/usa-vehicle-sales-by-mo...
What am I missing?
I own an older Nissan Leaf and set it to charge to a maximum of 80% per Nissan's recommendation. That gives me an indicated range of 68 miles when I start my trips. Range is never an issue for me personally (and we have a gas car for long drives) but I tell people that if they are the type to stress about driving around town with a fuel light on, they should avoid shorter-range EVs like the Leaf.
Mine has just passed the 12k mile, I don't notice any degradation. Indicated range is usually 100+ miles, which is meaningless. Once highway driving starts, it's more like 80 miles and is pretty accurate if doing 65MPH. Higher speeds will decrease that range.
Fun anecdote: I went to a park late at night to watch the perseids meteor shower. A arrived near the park with 20 miles remaining. Which was fine, as there was a quick charger nearby.
Me and my wife decided not to waste time and just hit it on the way back. Due to unfamiliarity with the area, I was misled by the GPS and went to the other side of the park. So I had to circle back and go uphill to reach the rendezvous point, a parking lot inside said park. Estimated range showed "---", 7% state of charge.
We had about 8 miles to go to reach the charger. We added 2 more miles by taking a wrong turn in an area with no phone and GPS reception. So 10, which took two times the amount of energy I figured I had.
Since it was almost 3 am, I just drove at the slowest possible speed I could, 15 MPH. Arrived at the charger with 4% remaining(dash showed "--%", still one bar lit). I doubt I would have made it at normal speeds.
Now, this is only possible because EV battery charge is extremely accurate, compared to fuel gauges in ICE cars.
I wish I could down-vote this by 1x10^9. What, you think the gas is taken from the top of the tank by a floating tube? The pickup is already on the bottom of the tank, which is pretty dang clean. More FUD spread by mechanics.
When reading the sentence about debris at the bottom my face went into an unnatural position.
The pump is usually located inside the fuel tank on modern vehicles and submerged in the fuel. The fuel is used to cool the pump during operation. When running low, the pump is exposed to air, runs hotter and may possibly overheat and be damaged.
> The good news is that the "low fuel" light comes on when there's anywhere from 1 to 2 gallons left, which is plenty to keep the pump safe.
Yeah, but you pretty much have to be under 1 gallon for it to be an issue.
Similarly, for what the OP mentioned:
> But modern fuel pumps have a protective screen or porous sock-like cover that catches any contaminants before they enter the fuel system. And those small bits that might get through would normally be caught by a second filter closer to the engine.
The location requires a filter to avoid that problem, regardless of fuel level. xD
> Even the simple act of driving with a low amount of fuel in your tank can damage your fuel pump...
I agree, driving up to fuel reserve shouldn't be a problem but I wouldn't use the reserve all that often.
Most gas tanks are pretty wide and flat and fuel pumps tend to be built "vertically", so 1 gallon fuel left of 14-16 gal will not cover/cool all that much surface area of the fuel pump.
http://www.motorcarmall.com/avoid-fuel-pump-failure
> Most gas tanks are pretty wide and flat and fuel pumps tend to be built "vertically", so 1 gallon fuel left of 14-16 gal will not cover/cool all that much surface area of the fuel pump.
Its intended to operate safely and efficiently at a level equal to or above the fuel reserve.
If it didn't, they would fail frequently in many cars as most people drive it pretty close to E regularly and you'd have in warranty repairs.
The stated reason may be wrong but it's not advisable to often drive below reserve (on hot days, in many modern cars).
As I stated before, I agree with you that driving up to fuel reserve is usually fine but I would not routinely drive on reserve.
The article disclaimer we are discussing:
> That said, driving on empty can also do damage to your vehicle. If you do run out of gas, you can do damage to your catalytic converter, which may then need to be repaired or replaced. Even the simple act of driving with a low amount of fuel in your tank can damage your fuel pump...
My distance record was 798 miles. I was going for 800, but my nerve gave out after the low-fuel warning had been on for 50 miles.
However, it had nothing to do at all with gas contamination (the pump couldn't care less), and everything to do with cooling (or lack of, due to the extended low fuel condition). I used to live in a hot climate (30oC every day). The pump self-destructed and part of the casing melted.
It takes quite a few days of constant driving with the gas light on for it to be an issue. At the time, I was filling up just enough to get me from A to B and didn't think it would be a problem.
Unfortunately (my car being a Kia automatic) even with a full tank that's only 220 miles. I have range anxiety as if I was driving an electric car.
On the first occasion, the fuel gauge failed, so I thought I still had gas. I got used to that after a while. I knew how many mpg I got, and how much gas I'd put in the tank.
Then my odometer failed (I told you it was a beater!). Without that, I was up the creek.
To be clear, the "low fuel" sign comes up well in advance, but as soon as the needle hits 0 (Full is 1. Half Tank is 1/2 and Empty Tank is 0) the car will stop, without any extra buffer for driving beyond that mark.
In addition to the fuel pump's well-being there's also condensation - if your vehicle experiences large temperature swings, it makes sense to keep the tank reasonably topped up to minimise condensation and water build-up in the tank.
Not in mine (in Germany, recent C class). It depends a bit on whether you define "reserve level" as 0 or not. On the one hand, the needle does go below reserve level all the way to physical zero, but from a UI point of view, reserve level itself is clearly what they want you to see as "running on empty". And that's what they mean in this article, too.
In my car, it actually shows you in the dashboard how much range you got left based on your current driving style, too. I have a medium-power Diesel engine, so that works out to about 40 miles remaining once the warning light goes on, and that's pretty accurate. After half of that is used up, the dashboard stops showing the estimate and instead begins to flash a "fill up immediately!" message.
My girlfriend has been driving it for the last year or so and the only times I drive it anymore is to take it in for an oil change or maintenance, but I often check the statistics and it averages 34 mpg overall (most of her driving is highway). The "low fuel" indicator in it also comes on with somewhere around 100 miles remaining.
I did drive it far enough once without stopping for gas that the "miles left" indicator read "---". I was about 10 minutes from home and figured I'd chance it (there's a gas station at the intersection where I turn off the highway to come home). My thought was that if I had designed the "countdown indicator", I would be in a bit of a buffer so that the car doesn't actually die going down the road when it hits zero, so I was certain I still had enough gas left to make it.
My truck (large 2013 Dodge Ram) averages right about half of that. Its "low fuel" indicator comes on with about 50 miles remaining. The Harley gets around 50 mpg (and offers to find the nearest gas stations when there is ~35 miles remaining).
Continuously variable transmission? They do wonders for gas mileage (and the opposite for power).
My Nissan used to stop registering the "Distance-until-empty" measure one it dropped below 40km, I assume because the accuracy isn't high enough.