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Ask HN: Do coding boot camps get people jobs/careers without a degree?

8 points by Onixelen ↗ HN
What if you didn't go to a boot camp and learned on your own? Would you still have a similar career as long as you're skilled? Is there something magical about a boot camp vs learning on your own?

12 comments

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prostoalex
The only benefit I can see in comparison to self-learning is access to a human being that can answer most questions. Given most bootcamps' focus on specific stacks, I'd imagine they produce somewhat decent junior engineers (as long there's a stack match) but poor senior engineers.

The employability of certain stacks (Swift + iOS, Java + Android, Node) is very high at the moment, so immediate employment issues are likely well taken care of, but long-term career prospects are somewhat dubious - I mean, there's still market for stacks such as Visual Basic + SQL Server, or Perl, but it's not red-hot.

Calist0
>but poor senior engineers

By the time the bootcamp junior reaches the senior level he/she would have already accumulated 5+ years of experience. That experience surely negates most benefits gained from a degree.

it's not like the bootcamp grad will still only know one specific stack by the time they reach senior. Any CS knowledge initially lacking should be acquired through experience and self-teaching by then..

prostoalex
> Any CS knowledge initially lacking should be acquired through experience and self-teaching by then

Sure, but how many people involved in a day-to-day job of (let's say) supporting a Rails application in their spare time read up on (let's say) data structures, algorithm design, operating systems, game design, database management systems or functional programming?

In an ideal world everyone does this, in reality I found that professional experience is more conducive to growing as a specialist vs growing as a generalist - conversations with coworkers, dealing with bug reports, browsing StackOverflow and attending conferences are all centered around getting deeper, not broader.

buchanaf
I would say thats a fair criticism of any programmer though. Unless you are using data structures and algorithm design (etc.) on a relatively frequent basis at work, you aren't going to remember much of your CS degree 3-4 years down the road.
debacle
I've interviewed a few people who have gone to coding bootcamps. Some of them have used it as spring board for learning more, some seem like they thought it would just land them a job. One in particular said he learned more in 2 coding bootcamps than throughout his entire CS degree.

They're just a tool, like a textbook or a tutorial website or anything else. Most of what you get out of them is what you put into them.

kbredemeier
The most successful bootcamp graduates that I know had previous experience, and attended the bootcamp as either a final step towards a career, or as a way to brush up on a new technology. Bootcamps are not designed to give you all the computer science training that is required to be successful in a tech career, it's just simply too short of a time to search such a wide breath of information. If you utilize bootcamps properly, they will yield great results.
[dead] kbredemeier
The most successful bootcamp graduates that I know had previous experience, and attended the bootcamp as either a final step towards a career, or as a way to brush up on a new technology. Bootcamps are not designed to give you all the computer science training that is required to be successful in a tech career, it's just simply too short of a time to search such a wide breath of information. If you utilize bootcamps properly, they will yield great results.
adamb_
We hired a couple guys from a code bootcamp after attending the camp's graduation / final project presentations. While I can't speak towards what effect it had on their overall skills, it clearly gave them great exposure.
panorama
As a bootcamp graduate, I found that going to the bootcamp allowed me to learn in 2 months what would've otherwise taken me (at least) a year to learn by myself. I like to think I could have gotten a job self-learning, but I essentially paid my tuition to save myself (at least) 10 months of time. Worth every cent in that regard.

So yes, you could do it on your own, but I don't recommend it if you had the choice.

probinso
I suggest you take a look at groups like skillsfund. they audit boot camps and provide scholarships.

the risk in going to a bootcamp, is that most people who would like to go to a boot camp are very easy to take advantage of. career transition often means that you are not in a position to be diligent or picky in your selection. many boot camps will make claims like their average graduate make $x per year. You want to make sure that you understand what percentage of their students graduate, what percentage of their students get placed in the field, and how they actually gather their averages.

unless your boot camp offers placement, and has transparent means of gathering incomes , you are much more likely to make $(y < x) at your first company out of a boot camp. This should not necessarily be a deterrent, but should be kept in mind.

I have known graduates of boot camps to be exceptional developers, that will likely do very well in the field. Their biggest challenge is placing their first job.

others, who are likely without prior expirience, graduate with skills that are just below industry needs. those need to find companies that are interested in growing them actively, which is very difficult. if you can go into a program with at least some proof of knowledge , you will be far better off.

kbredemeier
Depending on the bootcamp, or school that you attend, it might come with some industry recognition. For example, if a company has had success with hires from hack reactor[1], 42[2], or Holberton[3], then they are generally more likely to hire grads from that bootcamp. If you are simply self educated, then you don't have the references for companies to go by.

[1] http://www.hackreactor.com [2] https://www.42.us.org [3] https://www.holbertonschool.com