Can you explain the ICANN transfer?

114 points by Claudus ↗ HN
I'm kind of surprised there isn't a recent thread with comments and analysis of the impending relinquishment of US control over ICANN to another body.

I've read several articles, but I'm still having trouble understanding the reasoning, or even the technical details.

Does anyone understand what's going on?

What exactly is wrong with the current setup?

I would greatly appreciate an informed opinion.

34 comments

[ 4.3 ms ] story [ 65.9 ms ] thread
Agreed, the blackout on HN regarding the ICANN transfer is very, very strange.
It' not really a blackout if all that's happening is that it's not interesting enough for people to upvote it...
This transition has been in motion for over a decade now. NTIA (part of Department of Commerce) has some good material on it here: http://www.ntia.doc.gov/blog/2016/what-theyre-saying-why-its...

I think a lot of politicians (ahem Ted Cruz) are trying to frame the transition in a shadowy way to discredit the current administration, but its simply a procedural thing thats been in the works for a long while.

In operational practice, very little will change. The staff who perform the IANA function of managing the DNS Root Zone etc. will continue to do the same job, although those staff will now work in a separate subsidiary of ICANN. One operational change will be NTIA, an agency of the Department of Commerce, will no longer be required to authorize every change to the root zone in advance.

In addition, ICANN the organization will have new accountability measures that will allow the community to challenge decisions it makes. It provides new powers like spilling its Board under certain circumstances.

One of the main drivers to change the current setup is NTIA's role above is seen as undue US government influence in what should be a purely technical operation by many. Over the years some have advocated fundamentally altering how ICANN works (like moving it to the UN) because of the US Government's influence. By transferring the primary oversight role to the multi-stakeholder community (users, business, non-profits, etc.) who have always really driven ICANN's decisions anyway, it is hoped that that criticism will go away and pressure to fundamentally alter how it works will dissipate.

Just to add on to this. The NTIA has never exercised much in the way of oversite/interference. The largest issue I can recall was they got involved when the .XXX tld was being implemented.

As you say the actual running of ICANN/IANA and the internet at large is really managed under a multi stake holder model and is very inclusive and diversified.

Arguments to the contrary are typically FUD.

So why is it impossible for the UN to exert similar political influence?
> seen as undue US government influence in what should be a purely technical operation by many

Infrastructure diplomats.

> What exactly is wrong with the current setup?

What exactly was wrong with the 1998 setup? ISI and Jon Postel were managing fine back then.

I also don't recall a "US control over ICANN" that could be "relinquished" being part of the original ICANN proposal. I don't think that would have gone over well with the European operators at the IETF meetings. If it had been they probably would have stuck with the CCITT's x.25 networks, Minitel and such.

The 1997 white paper that triggered the creation of ICANN sums up the thoughts at the time:

"From its origins as a U.S.-based research vehicle, the Internet is rapidly becoming an international medium for commerce, education and communication. The traditional means of organizing its technical functions need to evolve as well. The pressures for change are coming from many different quarters:

* There is widespread dissatisfaction about the absence of competition in domain name registration.

* Conflicts between trademark holders and domain name holders are becoming more common. Mechanisms for resolving these conflicts are expensive and cumbersome.

* Many commercial interests, staking their future on the successful growth of the Internet, are calling for a more formal and robust management structure.

* An increasing percentage of Internet users reside outside of the U.S., and those stakeholders want to participate in Internet coordination.

* As Internet names increasingly have commercial value, the decision to add new top-level domains cannot be made on an ad hoc basis by entities or individuals that are not formally accountable to the Internet community.

* As the Internet becomes commercial, it becomes less appropriate for U.S. research agencies to direct and fund these functions."

> What exactly was wrong with the 1998 setup? ISI and Jon Postel were managing fine back then.

John Postel did great things for the Internet. However, to make a point or as a 'test', one day in 1998 he redirected most of the Internet's DNS root server traffic to different servers. That was the last straw - maybe the only straw. Here's the Wikipedia version, which matches my vague memory of the story:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Postel#DNS_Root_Authority...

And this may be one of the more immediate reasons for the change ... the control and behavior of the servers. The servers and what the servers do beyond their traditional/current roles under ICANN. The architecture and operational functions can be changed/controlled so as leverage being a focal point to gather and control beyond being a url/address gateway. Reiterating what others have already said ... Obama and other despotic players on the world stage are no friend to liberty and freedom. Freedom where the least of which is freedom of speech, association, movement and private property.
There is no "transfer" of anything. Anyone can edit the root.zone file. I use my own curated version. Great for blocking ads, etc.

But for many years no one did this, except very rarely. And the honors were left to some folks in the US, IANA/ICANN. Do not be fooled by the acronyms and the fabricated processes and formalities on the official websites. IANA was essentially one person. Bless the hearts of those who worked to create the early internet but these "organizations" derive their "authority" from nowhere. The internet is an abstraction, a term to describe different networks that cooperate.

The generally static nature of the root.zone file changed recently. It has doubled, maybe tripled in size and is now filled with TLDs such as .loans and .cologne. As well as trademarks such as .google, .microsoft, etc. These can also capture traffic from users who type strings into address bars that are not FQDNs.

ICANN charged $85K+ just to bid on these beauties; they made some very easy money. Most of them are worthless. Exit time for ICANN. :)

Now that it is filled with garbage, and perhaps anticipating some finger-pointing, it is time to acknowledge that the root.zone belongs to everyone and is managed by all countries of the world, not only the US.

The "transfer". More fabricated formalities.

The truth is that anyone can exercise control over the root.zone file, and anyone can serve it. Whether you choose to follow them or not is up to you. (Most users just let default DNS settings decide this for them.)

Similar to the early IANA, one person can do this job. I maintain and serve my own root.zone. I am the only user but there could just as well be hundreds of users. This could grow to thousands which could grow to millions which could grow to hundreds of millions which could grow to...

This is what happened with the DNS. It started out small and grew big. Believe it or not it is still not that big. I could fit all domain names in existence on consumer-sized storage media.

Thus concludes an opinion. Mildly informed.

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Sure, anyone can create their own root zone. I can create my own .com zone too and point my resolver to it instead. But what use is it if it doesn't contain useful entries that point to things I want to access? What use is it if all the parties underneath it aren't sending me updates to the zone?

Someone has to do that job for it to all work. Do the managers of the hundreds of TLDs around the world contact you to update your version? No, they send them to IANA.

The IANA's job is simply to be the authoritative repository of unique identifiers and associated configuration data — TLDs, IP addresses, port numbers, MIME types, etc. You are free to use your own bespoke IP addressing scheme, port numbers and MIME types too, but don't expect to be able interoperate with anyone else.

Sure, but there's a strong attractor for using the same root zone everyone else is using, by following the generally recognized steward (hence root.hints). Especially with naive protocols like http that lookup a name for every single object retrieval.

For instance, I'd love it if this recent TLD vomit could be nipped in the bud by people choosing to run their own root.zone. But as it stands doing so myself would merely inconvenience me. And this herd effect is magnified further because the custom is for ISPs to run recursive resolvers for their customers.

> "The US government has never, and has never had the ability to, set the direction of the (ICANN) community’s policy development work based on First Amendment ideas," ICANN said in a statement. "Yet that is exactly what Senator Cruz is suggesting. The US government has no decreased role. Other governments have no increased role. There is simply no change to governmental involvement in policy development work in ICANN."[0]

This is the primary issue I have with every single one of ICANN's rebuttals[1]: nothing will change (so they say), and yet, here we are, making a change.

Okay, then, here's a stupid question: why is a change being made? Ted Cruz may be an ass, but that doesn't make ICANN's position correct.

If nothing will change, they guess what? No change is necessary. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If something will change, then ICANN should be entirely up front about what that change exactly is. Instead, we get a bunch of denials that nothing will change, the US has no current role anyway, yadda yadda yadda, but serious you guys, we have to change this right now.

We're talking about managing the DNS system here, that's not an "insignificant" thing, as other commenters have suggested.

Yes, existing ASes can already block specific domains today. Fine. But ICANN could easily become a Title IX-type situation, where ASes are forced to block specific domain names in order to remain part of the global Internet system.[2]

It's true it doesn't police ASes that direction today, under the existing ICANN governance model, but there's (to my knowledge) no reason why that couldn't be true today (under US control), and I see no reason why adding "more stakeholders" will make the situation any less likely in the future. If anything, it makes it more likely: look at the UN. Certainly ICANN itself doesn't think it's any less likely, but here's what they don't say: with this change, it'll be extremely hard for US citizens to fix if it does come about. That's not "insignificant" to me.

[0] http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/09/y2k-2-0-is-the-us...

[1] https://www.icann.org/iana-stewardship-questions

[2] For instance, consider how the US Justice Dept. is using "Dear Colleague" letters in 2016 to force schools to adopt a less-rigorous sexual assault policy or face loss of federal funding. ICANN could apply similar pressure to ASes in the future (not funding, but zone updates or whatever).

That's my beef with it, I can't figure out a concrete reason why this is important. Any change around something as important as DNS deserves scrutiny but this one has mostly been handwaved away.

I am particularly concerned that it is described as a purely technical move with no effect on censorship capabilities as if those are mutually exclusive.

What is the goal here? What problem is this solving?

On of the main reasons is political:

"It will signal that the U.S. has changed its position and no longer believes in a private-sector led internet and that governments will play a primary role in making the final decision. Russia, China, and others will welcome such a decision."

(https://www.icann.org/iana-stewardship-questions)

ICANN and others are afraid that certain, mostly authoritarian governments will want to break away from the global DNS and/or IP allocation system to form alternative, walled systems under the pretext that the US government 'controls the internet'.

So ICANN and others want to take away any argument, however feeble, that supports this position.

I don't understand why we should want to placate censorious governments, let alone by giving them even a modicum of power over something this important. Furthermore, if the transition of ICANN won't be a cause for censorship, then why would it placate those governments? If the threat is that they're going to break away and make their own systems, wouldn't that be in order to more strongly stifle free speech? If that is their reason for breaking away, the only way that giving them partial control would prevent that is if the system we already have is made to be more controlled instead.

I really don't see any upside to this, as a US citizen strongly in favor of free speech. There very well may be no downside, but I've seen no strong case for this that doesn't come down to global politics to appease other nations with far less stringent free speech protections.

> No change is necessary. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Why was it changed in 1998? ISI was perfectly capable of handling the function.

Ted Cruz is indignant that the US Department of Commerce is transitioning out of a role it took up from ISI in 1998. This is the same Department of Commerce which Cruz pledges he is trying to abolish on his web site ( https://www.tedcruz.org/five-for-freedom-summary ).

So a previous change occurred and that means that any further changes cannot be scrutinized? I have no love for my junior Senator but that doesn't mean I cannot be concerned about why this particular change is happening.
Senator Cruz is not scrutinizing the decision. He is using it as political fodder. There is a difference.
I don't really care who is doing it or why - I want to know why this change is so necessary if it is ostensibly such a minor change.
There are many resources for information linked in this thread.

Even minor changes have to actually happen at some point. This is one that has been under discussion for a long time. It just happens to be happening now.

ICANN (as well as other supporters of the transition) believe that even the appearance that the US has control over ICANN is damaging to their ideal of keeping the Internet global, rather than devolving into numerous regional, government-run internets. ICANN doesn't want the Internet sharded under the pretext, "The US controls the Internet, so we'll create our own."

Whether this transition will help prevent that from happening remains to seen.

usually this is my 1st stop to understand current topics re: ICANN etc. ::

Milton Mueller at Internet Governance Project (1).

his latest blog post may shed some light (2).

1. http://www.internetgovernance.org

2. http://www.internetgovernance.org/2016/09/28/its-over-yestoi...

That's a very interesting blog post. It contradicts itself multiple times. For example, in one paragraph it says that the fact that the GAO hasn't produced the congressionally mandated report for over a year must mean that there's nothing to report on. In the very next paragraph it says that the reason the GAO hasn't produced the report is probably because of "partisan gridlock."

So which is it? Have they produced no report because there is nothing to report on (which is obviously silly; there's something to report, regardless of your opinion), or have they produced no report because of partisan gridlock? If the latter, as they suggest, how does that imply that there's nothing to report on?

It would actually imply the opposite, that there is much to report on, but that political pressure is preventing them from reporting on it due to how an unbiased report would inconvenience certain political agendas.

Just imagine, a CEO sees some troubling reports about his company's stock, hearing rumors of fraud and audits and lawsuits. He orders an accountant to produce a financial report for the last 6 months by Friday. Friday comes and goes, and so does another, until several months have gone by. Finally the CEO concludes that, since his accountant hasn't produced the ordered report, there must be nothing to report, and everything is fine. ??? That's the same logic they use in this article.

This is just one example of the double-minded perspective presented in that article. The IGP is obviously strongly biased toward one political party, and they write deceptive articles to confuse the public and handwave away legitimate concerns.

I guess my concern, and as a simple question:

Right now domains like wikileaks.org and thepiratebay.se exist. Will they continue to exist in the same manner going forward? Or, in a few years, will attacks on these domains be made, and their domains seized?

I'm really concerned about this, above all.

Non-top-level names are subject to the rules established by their TLD manager. This is iiS for .se domains, and PIR (the Public Internet Registry) for .org. Each such managing organizations is more or less free to establish its own rules and to give and revoke DNS names (or delegate to registrars).

The history of the The Pirate Bay's many domain names (thepiratebay.xx has been registered at some point for almost any value of xx) clearly shows that different TLDs have different policies. Many revoked thepiratebay.xx on request, but some (like .se and .org) haven't.

I don't know what it would mean for ICANN to apply pressure to a TLD manager to change their rules or make an exception in order to revoke or transfer a name. But it would be a form of political pressure; there is no contractual obligation by TLDs to do whatever ICANN tells them to, and there is no technological mechanism in DNS itself to do so. Naively, ICANN seems to present less danger in this regard than the US Government did. Of course that doesn't mean the danger was or is small in absolute terms: the US Government is very good at political pressure!

Globalist will turn over the Internet to the same people who put Iran on the UN Human Rights Council.
Admittedly, there is a bit of a lie by omission in the statements of ICANN. By agreeing to hand the institution over to an international stage, we are agreeing to censor access to small websites or alternate-view websites that don't conform to the standards or views of the corporation in charge of the new ICANN. In effect, we would be blocking access to small websites, limiting freedom of speech over the internet, and possibly in the future having internet access begin to mirror the same level of restrictions that television has.

Then, the international corporation would decide what websites you can access, and if the website you want to have a look at doesn't adhere to the corporation's view, it will simply become inaccessible.

There is also the question of political relevance; that is, why the urgency? Why require that this be passed during the Obama administration just before an election, and without congressional input?

To stop this? See this petition.

https://wh.gov/iMbbv Which routes to: https://petitions.whitehouse.gov//petition/stop-icann-handov...

ALSO, an interesting side note:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-29/4-states-sue-block-...

You guys are bright, even brilliant. But, you're missing something. It's an agenda. For 1 world government. It's 1 the World Order.
In a word, islamazation.

In a last minute move Obama, a Muslim, has taken the first step, perhaps the only step, in handing over a level of censorship power to other Muslims, like saudi arabia.

The Internet is about to become disproportionately friendly to Muslims, positive about Islam and very hostile to those who would criticize it. They can use the domain power to gain other Internet powers, like censorship of site content.

It will have a chilling effect on anti Islam speech and be a Hayday for Muslim propaganda and hate and terror speech like ISIS web sites,which will no longer be taken down.

Other last minute surprises are Obama giving Iran over a billion dollars in cash and removing the freeze on their bank accounts. As you know he also tried to block the 9/11 victims ability to sue terrorist sponsoring nations.