Ask HN: Why do companies buy ads when they are the top result in search?

143 points by Man_On_the_Moon ↗ HN
For example, go to google.com and type in: "Squarespace". Squarespace has an ad at the top and then they are the first result. On the surface, this seems counter-intuitive because a user searching 'squarespace' would likely choose the organic link anyway. This is very common. Why do companies do this? Is it a defense mechanism so other competitors do not win ad placements right above their organic search result?

94 comments

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Yep. It's a defense mechanism.

Also prevents someone from buying an ad for Squarespace.co or some other domain for a phishing site, which could result in bad press from a """"hack"""" (note the use of quotes, it's not hacking.)

This happened with torrenting sites and other free software. Top results were ads that charged people money.
This study (http://searchengineland.com/google-research-even-if-you-rank...) is a bit old and possibly biased (since sponsored by Google) but when I worked in SEM the experience we had was the same which was the top organic position + the top paid position netted overall more traffic to our site than with just the organic position alone. The other considerations are:

1) Brand SEM terms are cheap - if you own the brand, especially something like Squarespace, your ad will have a high quality score and will thus pay a much lower CPC than a competitor trying to vie for eyeballs with your brand name as a keyword. This means that brand terms generally are pretty cheap to buy.

2) Real estate ownership - The more real estate on the page you own the more click share you will get. This will keep other organic listings from getting click share which may mean your competitors will get less traffic off of searches for you.

3) Control over message - Ads provide a high degree of creative control which means you can change the copy and also add on Ad Extensions like sitelinks, app download buttons, "click to call" buttons, etc. These are all things that are harder to control on your organic listing.

Great explanation - I'll add two things.

1. If you're not there, someone else is. If Nike didn't buy brand terms, adidas would and would steal tons of customers.

2. Paid results (and other results like maps, shopping, etc) often push organic results below the fold so no one sees them. You need to be above the fold.

Lol, so it's extortion by google? Superb model!
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1. I don't think that you can buy ads using other company's trademark. It's against Adwords policy.

TS using "Squarespace" as example, not "web shop".

Can bid on keywords, you just can't use trademarked terms in ad copy.

Google loves branded Kws on Adwords. Bidding on competitors will have a low quality score, but drives up the competition for the brand owner. With all of the above the fold distractions, you basically have to pay if you want to be above the fold.

This reflects the core argument to do this...but the truth is more subtle. Agencies and in house SEM teams are inherently biased to want to spend on brand terms because a) they can attribute more sales to their channel and b) Justify more spend which equals more revenue for most agencies...

I am not discounting the validity of the argument to bid on brand terms and I bid on brand terms for most of my clients...but I always disclose this inherent bias before making a recommendation...

In truth, every brand should test for themselves how it impacts their bottom line and if protecting their brand is worth the spend...

------ The cynical voice in my head thinks that most digital advertising today is really ad tech companies hijacking revenue that brands earned already...and if not for competitors using that same tech, no one really needs it... (i.e. remarketing, custom audiences, branded search, first party data, etc...)

In reality, I actively spend my clients money on these tactics and congratulate myself on the results I generate for them... but in the back of my mind I am waiting for the ad tech bubble to burst and media companies disappearing and being replaced by branded content, content marketing, etc...

Edit:spelling

I've worked with companies before that only gave credit for a fraction of revenue/orders driven by brand terms. They did a study on what % of brand SEM terms were cannibalizing against the organic listing and only gave credit for what they believed to be accretive.
That would be an intelligent way of doing it - most refuse to see the cannibalisation, however, and demand a purely cumulative effect, which results in unhappiness all around.
I can just as easily argue that branded search closes the sale at the bottom of the funnel and that generic search contributes to that sale...so without multi click attribution in the mix, its not fair to give credit to organic for cannibalized sales...etc... my point is really that there is room to argue both ways and without advanced attribution...someone somewhere is not getting the credit they earned.
It's (a) all the way down. The expression is robbing Peter to pay Paul - we've even tested it - while running ads on branded keywords does increase clicks, it increases the CPA from zero to potentially pricey. The net benefit is so-so, and if the client doesn't understand that they're cannibalising their organic traffic you have a problem - I.e. 99% of the time.

The only reason I've ever witnessed is SEO/M ego rubbing, and the conversations usually go:

"we are spending more than our monthly revenue on brand ppc ads!"

"But you cover the entire first page of Google for your terms, branded and product. Turn the ads off."

"But all our traffic cones through the ads!"

"That's because you're swamping your organic terms."

"Oh gee, I don't know, worm-tongue SEO/M-master, what do I do?"

"Spend more money with my PPC agency! We know more about web development then web developers, we studied drama and literature. And we have a certificate from google saying we're good webmasters. Do your development agency?"

>we studied drama and literature.

The horror.

The cannibalization is a bit of a catch-22. If you don't have paid ads on SERPs where you rank high organically, of course all your traffic will come from the organic results. But if you don't take the top paid spot, your competitor can -- and then they're "cannibalizing" your organic results.
Just to add what's said above, it will also help prevent a competitor using your brand as a keyword.
And your ad agency will be fired when that happens. It is therefore a must buy.
I work in an industry where branded terms are EXTREMELY expensive and I've spent the last year and a half looking for ways to build better heuristics on how marketing actually works. I am extremely skeptical of media agencies and all parties relating to marketing spend, even those who want to measure it in their own "scientific" manner.

From attending conferences it doesn't seem like anyone is really on the ball with attribution reporting. The best thing you can do for marketing analytics is implement rigorous and scientific experiments, which require massive buy in. If anyone wants to discuss this or work towards a solution send me an email (in profile.)

Also if they're likely to choose the organic link anyway, there's less of a cost if it's a pay-per-click arrangement
As others have already explained, it is done to prevent competing services from achieving the number one spot for your search result.

There is a very cool and informative video from Google that shows what goes into bidding for and awarding the ads that are shown. I had truly encourage you watch this:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PjOHTFRaBWA

I attended a talk by Nordstrom's SEO team and one of their findings was people who click on the top ads spend more than people who click on non ads links. They seemed to think the paid search results might align closer to what the buyer was looking for.

That being said they were not 100% sure.

people who click on the top ads spend more

Probably because they are less web savvy and less aware of the options they have.

I don't see why clicking the ad makes you less web savvy. You're not the one paying for it.

As an alternative, perhaps people who click the top ad are pressed for time, which is often the case with high income individuals.

>>> I don't see why clicking the ad makes you less web savvy.

Web Savyy people have AdBlockers. It's the first thing to install right after the operating system itself.

Clicking the ad means you don't have an AdBlocker, therefore you are not web savyy.

...

We're talking about ads in Google search results, right? Not banner ads? Am I missing something??

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Yes we're talking about ads in Google search results. They are blocked by adblockers.

(Well, except the official flavour of AdBlock Plus, which was paid a shitton of money by Google to stop blacklisting them :D)

I use ghostery...not exactly an ad blocker but it blocks most ads. I guess it spares the Google search text ads.
Because if they don't their competitors will.
It increases the clickable area that will result in a visit to your site, it blocks others from taking up any of that critical real estate (via ads or organic rank), and like others have said, it's probably relatively cheap for the brand owner to bid on their own brand.

I think increasing the clickable area is pretty important, especially with mobile users.

And customers, since they know it's an ad, might be nice and click on the organic link instead. :-)

A group of economists at Ebay ran a series of experiments to measure the value or promoted links when the brand already own the top organic link http://faculty.haas.berkeley.edu/stadelis/Tadelis.pdf

They find no measurable short term benefit to purchasing the "Ebay" keyword on sales.

Yeah, ask them how they felt about it when they turned adwords off.
Marketers often work with middle man companies to create the ads, you'd be surprised I think if you heard how many times the ad owner never even looks at the results of how it looks to customers.

But also lots of the other reasons posted here are very true too.

SERIOUSLY???? I have to beg my clients to stop googling themselves!!!

In all seriousness, clients obsess about their ads and how it appears way more than the agencies do...They often don't realize that it can hurt their CTR, their quality scores, and pollute the data used to measure results... Google built an ad preview tool for this very reason.

How does it hurt and pollute? New to this.
If you are interacting with your own ads, the data you get at the end (especially if you are low traffic/a small player) will not be representative of reality, as your actions would have hurt/polluted the result.
A big factor in how much you pay for every click is quality score. The likely biggest factor in quality score is your relative click through rate for the position (i.e. Google wants to show the ad that gets clicked more because it makes them more revenue, if you get clicked 10% of the time for a keyword in position 2 and your competitor gets clicked 8% of the time, Google wants to show your ad and even gives you a discount of sorts on the click via higher quality score.)

So, if you google your keywords to see how your ad appears, you have 2 choices. Click on your ad, which will cost you money or dont click and lower your click through rate which can lower your quality score, especially if you do it often.

The issue of polluting data is that now your agency or whoever is managing your SEM sees either a lower click through rate if your dont click or a lower conversion rate if you do click and will make optimization decisions without knowing how many searches were you.

Google has an ad preview tool in Adwords to let you check without impacting your data.

In the greater scheme of things, if its a high volume query, the harm is minimal, but if its a high value term with low search volume (i.e. a big ticket local service) it can really hurt you.

Getting it now, thanks. This field is deep.
If you don't advertise on your brand keywords, your competitor will. We spend quiet a lot on our brand keywords to avoid competitor siphoning off our brand traffic.
Isnt bidding on trademarked keywords forbidden on google these days?
No, it is allowed. You just can't put a trademarked term in your ad copy. You can even get away with putting the trademark in your ad copy unless the brand told Google to enforce their trademark.

There are tricks to get around this as well that sometimes work. (i.e. Dynamic Keyword Insertion)

edit: Source: https://support.google.com/adwordspolicy/answer/6118?hl=en

I'll add one more - analytics. It's the only way to get accurate impression numbers. Which is a useful thing to trend for brand keywords.
What's wrong with impression numbers from Google Search Console? They're free.
Only very limited 3 months of worth data. Everything costs nowadays when it comes to Google. And Facebook.
My experience with Google ads was that it is very easy to accidentally get them to display your ad in this way, without you knowing it.

You choose a list of terms you want to show your ad in, but by default Google will also put your ad up in "related" searches. If your company or product is already popular enough, it's likely to end up in the related searches for the terms you chose.

This cost me quite a bit of money before I found out I was wasting money on these ads by accident.

> by default Google will also put your ad up in "related" searches.

I don't mean to be harsh, but you shouldn't be spending money on search advertising without taking the 2 minutes to understand match types. There is no default other than showing you very closely related variant matching (i.e. plural to singular)...

Yes, if you run broad match keywords and dont use negatives, you run the risk of wasting lots of money...but it's hardly a default setting.

I think he means related searches as in http://www.blindfiveyearold.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/g...

If I understand his comment, if you select the term "sweatshirt" your add is also displayed when people search "American Eagle," and that may be yourself and you're wasting money.

He was referring to running broad match keywords by accident...My point was that its reckless to advertise without understanding match types... Google gives you nearly complete control over which terms they show you on using keyword match types and negative keywords...No one should be advertising with Google without understanding this.

https://support.google.com/adwords/answer/2497836?hl=en

I wish you could try to frame your criticism in a more engaging and friendly way. In my opinion, it's exactly this kind of absolutist reasoning that seems to be killing community and conversation.

Of course he and many others can advertise on Google without understanding match types. The point of the service provided by Google is that it's on the whole, significantly easier than "traditional" ad buying. Regardless of the repercussions, AdSense let him buy ads without that understanding.

With this kind of fervor, I have to presume you're either genuinely very, very bad at providing people with advice or, what I presume to be the case, angry or pessimistic about something else entirely.

Frankly I think you owe the comment an apology for your tone regardless of the validity of your opinion on what training ought to be necessary before using a particular web app.

>The point of the service provided by Google is that it's on the whole, significantly easier than "traditional" ad buying

What the hell gave you that impression?

He does not owe any appologies. He is completely right. How to have a discussion where one side doesn't know anything but pretends that it does and lectures the side that actually knows?

Being able to google every problem programmers face has given them the false sense that everything is very easy. You just need to read a couple of articles on the front page of google and you're done.

I somewhat agree with your point about the tone. I will apologize after writing this.

(Edit: Your post has me confused because you start off talking about tone and than you fail to take your own advice about reasonable discourse.)

Your assumptions however are way off...I would never criticize someone for something remotely excusable, but advertising on Google without taking 2 minutes or less to learn something as fundamental as match types is about as reckless as buying a rolex on the streets from a guy on a manhattan street corner and than feeling ripped off...Some things, like match types, fit into the category of reckless despite how easy you want to think running Adwords is.

My frustration is that so many people waste so much money on digital advertising because "they think they can do it themselves."

This specific guy was sharing advice warning people about adwords wasting his money. Adwords didnt waste him a penny, his unwillingness to do less than 2 minutes of preperation or asking a pro led to that...

Even with over a decade experience, I still learn new things about Adwords almost daily...The idea that people think that its simple and they can run it themselves is frustrating, but to not even know about match types, I cant think of any excuse that justifies it short of arrogance and/or laziness.

Adwords is an auction. When my competitors choose to waste money, My costs get driven up. It hurts everyone but Google...so take the 2 seconds to read up on how to do it or dont complain and tell the world it doesnt work.

Or ask me, Im happy to help with basic strategy for free, its in my best interest for my competitors to run advertising that is accountable to a bottom line and thay doesnt compete in irrelevant query auctions.

> "I cant think of any excuse that justifies it short of arrogance and/or laziness."

You're not very nice, calling me arrogant and/or lazy.

It was simply a false assumption that the matching would be strict by default. And possibly a mistake that a lot of people are making, considering all the companies that are advertising for themselves.

I'm sorry. It was wrong to call you arrogant or lazy and I apologize.

You might be right about other companies making those same assumptions...I would love to understand more about their thought process. When you started with adwords, did you consider hiring a pro or run a few searches for beginner tips or did you just follow the onboarding to get started? I am not asking to prove a point, I am asking to get an idea about what a newbie might assume when getting started with Adwords.

I would never try to fix my cars engine on my own, nor would I fix my sewer line. I would probably atleast watch a youtube video before changing my oil...I genuinely want to understand what people think when they assume they can run adwords on their own without researching how to do it effectively?

> There is no default other than showing you very closely related variant matching (i.e. plural to singular)...

It was not clear in your previous comment that "very closely related variant matching" included as well not so closely related variants like synonyms and related searches, given that you said it meant "plural to singular."

> Broad match is the default match type that all your keywords are assigned if you don't specify another match type (exact match, phrase match, or negative match). The Google AdWords system automatically runs your ads on relevant variations of your keywords, including synonyms, singular and plural forms, possible misspellings, stemmings (such as floor and flooring), related searches, and other relevant variations. To help deliver relevant matches, this match type may also take the customer's recent search activities into account.(https://support.google.com/adwords/answer/2497828)

Edit: The critique above may not be fair because your point seems to be that "broad match" is not the default setting (so you really think that the default shows only very closely related variants and not synonyms or related searches). However, if this is what you really meant then you seem to be wrong.

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> included as well not so closely related variants like synonyms and related searches, given that you said it meant "plural to singular."

That is not true except with broad match. you are confusing broad match with close variant matching. close Variant matching on phrase and exact match only triggers really close variants, like I indicated. There are also adwords scripts that give you even more control http://www.brainlabsdigital.com/adwords-scripts-reversing-th...

As far as broad match being default. I suppose you are technically right... However, anyone that gives control to Google about how they spend your money is begging to lose money.

Never ever ever use the default settings of an ad platform...it's basically inviting them to take all your money without showing results.

I don't think it's me who was confused here. Or let's say my confusion arose from trying to reconcile what you said ("There is no default other than showing you very closely related variant matching") with the actual default.

Probably it's good advice to never used the default settings. And maybe it's ok to ignore what is the default. But I find really amusing that you, an expert with over a decade of experience, is telling people that they "shouldn't be spending money on search advertising without taking the 2 minutes to understand match types" (implying that it was his fault and not Google's because "if you run broad match keywords and dont use negatives, you run the risk of wasting lots of money...but it's hardly a default setting") while stating as a fact that the default is something different from what it actually is.

Honestly, I stand by my position and advice.

Broad match is really not a default in the traditional sense...it is a default if you are too lazy/arrogant/dumb to understand how Google serves ads in the most basic way before flipping the switch on.

If you are too lazy to google Adwords Beginner or read Googles getting started documentation, you only have yourself to blame. Understanding match types is absolute fundamentals day one stuff.

Yes, if you want to be completely blind, you get backed into a default, but you only have yourself to blame if that happens...it is so fundamental and easy to discover that I just cant reconcile a rational scenario with not knowing enough to not end up defaulting to broad match with no idea that there is even a thing called match types.

Edit: just to add to this, I was being literal when I mentioned 2 minutes...it literally does not take more than 2 minutes to learn how Google matches ads to queries...

Edit2: I realize I am being a little defensive and unforgiving. The truth is, I can see plenty of people making this mistake...just assuming that its super easy to advertise...I guess I get a little emotional because its such a easy thing to learn. Its like my mom asking me a technical question that I simply Google and tell her the answer...she could have easily googled it herself :) understandable but frustrating!

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I apologize for using a harsh tone in my criticism. You are right, if you dont do some preparation and research in advance, you will likely waste money on adwords.

There are great ways to make sure you dont waste money, like using different match types, writing very relevant ads that qualify people so the wrong people wont click and using negative keywords.

Its a good idea to Google, "Adwords beginner (tips, guide, pitfalls, mistakes)" any of these will surface great info. to get you started on the right foot.

Googling in Munich (logged in in Chrome) for squarespace I get an ad for siteground.com.
Googling "squarespace -squarespace" I get the ad for squarespace without competing ads or organics.
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To add some anecdotal data, even when our company was at #1 for our main search phrase and when there were fewer PPC competitors, we were still getting more traffic with PPC + organic, rather than leaving it just to the organic listing. It's like there were 2 different sets of people - those who tend to click on ads and those who tend to click on organic results. And you want both. That was quite a long time ago. Nowadays, for our main search phrase, there are 4 PPC ads at this time. And Google is now blending ads much better with the organic results, they are barely distinguishable to the untrained eye. Being #1 organic result doesn't bring you that much benefit in that setup, you're actually being #5 overall - barely visible.
IOW: "Nice business you have here, it would be a shame if something happened to it ..."
"blending ads much better with the organic results"

shiver

if they don't buy their competitors will buy.
Side question: would you click on the ad or on the organic search result? Why?
I'm clicking the ad! If someone went through the trouble and payed for putting their website above their website, I'll make sure that their ad budget is well spent! /s
Believe it or not, even in 2016, even with the ad label, there are still plenty of people who have no idea that there is a difference between the paid and organic listings... They just go to Google and click on a link with a snippet that speaks to them.

Personally, as a search marketer, I always assume that someone willing to pay money to reach me probably has a more relevant offering and experience for me, so I am slightly biased to click on ads...

Your question should really be more nuanced. Are you talking about navigational searches, informational searches, or transactional searches. There is different intent and context with how and why people search at different times which probably results in different behavior.

For example, an informational search from me almost never clicks on an ad but either knowledge graph or a link half way down the page.

A transactional search will almost always go to a paid ad, and a navigational search will likely go to the organic listing that points to that page...unless the ad points to that specific page. (this is just my own experience.)

Also for SAAS products on branded terms you are more likely to get a better new customer experience on a tailored landed page than the homepage (for some businesses anyway.)

I agree with informational search, I think that clicking on an ad will put me lower in their sales funnel which means more annoying popups and remarketing.

A lot of people don't know, pay attention, or care enough.
If it's a company I like then I click the organic listing. On the other hand, if it's an ad for someone who needs the money less than google does then I do my part and donate to the google foundation.
Organic, always. No desire to encourage advertising.

(Yes, I'd be willing to pay a modest subscription if Google got out of the advertising business. No, I doubt this pledge will ever be put to the test...)

> I'd be willing to pay a modest subscription if Google got out of the advertising business

That would be like asking Ford to get out of the automotive business. Something like 94% of Google's revenue comes from their advertising division.

More importantly, I wish people would stop pitching the subscription model when it comes to alternatives to advertising. Study after study, after real world example, after real world example has shown that subscription models just don't work. Period. Sure, you may have one or 2 rare exceptions where a site didn't crash and burn but the overwhelming majority of sites that have tried it have fallen hard. And the ones that saw success only saw very tepid success.

It's a model that just doesn't work.

Here you go:

https://www.google.com/contributor/welcome/

Please let us know the amount you contributed.

"Not yet available in your country". (Although there's a "waitlist" button now which I don't remember from when this first appeared, so thanks for getting me to take another look).

Note, also, that "fewer adverts" isn't the same as "Google out of the advertising business"! Although, in practice, I probably would pay for the former as well if it were an option.

If they didn't buy the ad, someone else's ad would be at the top. Many people don't distinguish between the top search result and the ad.
I got in to a debate with my business partner about this very subject. It turns out non-technical people tend not to distinguish between organic results and paid results. For example, he personally clicks our brand based ad instead of our organic result when he googles us. I had to explain that we were spending money every time he did that.
Localization is also one of the reasons. For eg., I live in japan and when I search for amazon in google, the organic result is .com but the top ad link is .co.jp. And I always click the ad link.
Brand reinforcement. The more you see it, the more you know it, the more likely you are to trust / use the brand. It's simple really.
Yes - It is mainly so that a competitor doesn't show up above your organic search results by buying your keywords and it adds another line item for your brand.
Marketers and ad reps are very good at rationalizing and justifying their existence.

As someone else mentioned down thread, I'm happy to reward those who cannibalize their organic results and help ensure that their adwords budget doesn't go unused...

Because the ad is the first search result. We don't even really care that much anymore how our "organic" results play out.