This doesn't really tell us much, other than that it looks like a phone and seems to run software. There's going to be much more to it than this, I suspect.
I think there will be other announcements. The Android SVP is certainly hyping the event: "We announced the 1st version of Android 8 years ago today. I have a feeling 8 years from now we'll be talking about Oct 4, 2016."
"Most other smartphone manufacturers, including the world’s largest, Samsung, use Android but do not actively develop the software, only modify it, relying on Google for primary development."
I never really understand this. Surely Samsung has the technical expertise to develop an OS to suit their own hardware?
Is it really worth relying on Google to make Android, and then "modify it" to suit their needs?
It is clear the benefit of Apple having control over the entire product - why do other large smart phone companies not do this?
Because it's (relatively) easy to develop a good OS, or one better than Android, but it's going to be very difficult to get the 3rd party apps to support your platform before you have enough users. And you wont get the users without 3rd party app support.
And Samsung already gets to modify Android to the point it breaks apps and forces devs to apply Samsung specific fixes. I don't really think there's a length they could go that's too far in modifying the OS past replacing Android as a base. Their market share is so large devs just put up with it.
Android is big brand, you can take a ride on the Google / Android branding and their appstore with a million apps.
Samsung is, however, developing Tizen, their own OS, which runs on the gear s3 watch and a number of smartphones. But the appstore is still pretty empty and consumers are weary.
Tizen is slightly more acceptable in a smartwatch because android wear is still very deficient in everything. As soon as Google bothers to bring it up to date with competitors, tizen loses all appeal.
Mobile phone app stores are a natural monopoly choke point; at the moment the market can just about sustain two app stores where one is slightly lower quality than the other. The others (Windows Mobile, Blackberry World, arguably the Amazon one) are much less popular.
Samsung phones would be worth much less without the Play store, and everything follows from there.
I imagine Android's fractured ecosystem prevents this. App developers have limited resources. Any new OS has to compete with iOS and a half dozen Android versions. Few companies will want to develop apps for your OS if you can't get the say 5% market share of a 5-year old Android version.
Samsung has pretty much accomplished that, sort of by a random walk of features. Samsung's Android is different enough that, for some customers, it is preferable.
But it means Samsung's versions lag Google significantly, and Samsung is quick to orphan their own products. So Samsung customers start behind, and get stranded in the past of Android. Also, app developers often have to to test specifically on Samsung phones because Samsung has introduced bugs and security issues with their modifications.
> I never really understand this. Surely Samsung has the technical expertise to develop an OS to suit their own hardware?
Sure, they do. Its just a huge expense and then you've got to market both your tech stack and your app store to developers, otherwise, you've got a smart phone without apps to sell. With Android, you've got apps, plus you can still try to market your own unique stack on top of android and app store for additional benefit (and Samsung does), but in the worst case you've still got access to the Android ecosystem and Google Play Store, which provides value to your hardware.
Yeah, that and the OnePlus 3 are at the top of my list. The Sony comes with a bunch of crapware and a custom Android skin; not a deal-killer, but a pretty big negative. The OP3 is well reviewed, but still a little too large.
The 2013 Moto X was perfect: flagship specs, 4.7 inches, and basically stock Android. Seems such perfection was a flash in the pan.
I was able to disable the crapware on my Z5C, and the custom skin is a lot less visible once you download the Google launcher, keyboard, etc etc. It feels very much like stock now.
Okay, but I shouldn't have to. Here, we did a bunch of work that you now have to do a bunch of work (and probably introduce subtle instabilities) to undo. No thanks.
I have a OP2, and the screen size irks me a bit. I was on a Moto G 4G before that. Perfect screen size.
This being said, I recently discovered the "one-handed keyboard feature" on my OP2 and absolutely love it. I can finally answer messages while swiping with a single hand.
I'm hoping the next round will have a 4". They had probably already started production on this round when they found out about the iPhone SE. I'm guessing they'll follow suite as usual.
Z5C (350$) or Z3C (250) seems to come up a lot in my search. I'm also tempted by the nexus 5x (probably at my limit at 5.2" but it's only 250ish), and perhaps the new pixel (which is 5" but probably way more than I'm willing to pay for a phone). Another interesting contender is Nextbit Robin, which is 5.2 inches for 230ish and very pretty.
I've been eyeing Xiaomi phones for a while, but unsure that I want to go to the hassle of getting a device that's unservicable in the US.
On another route, HTC one M8 (5" - 170ish!) seems to be an old flagship that still does well, and us now super cheap. I wonder what other similar ones there are.
edit: to be honest I've given up on finding sub-5", and thinking about 5.2.
Is your 2013 Moto X broken? If not, why replace it? Is it more up-to-date software you want? If so, go for one of the alternative Android distributions (eg. Cyanogenmod: https://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/Ghost_Info). Is the battery bad? That can be replaced. Is it not fast enough? It might be with an alternative Android distribution on it. That phone is only 3 years old so it does not sound like it is in dire need of replacement (if it isn't broken to begin with, of course). I still use a 2011 Motorola Defy, others use devices of similar age. If it still works fine why replace it?
You're right! And that's why I'm still using it. It is a little slow, the OS is outdated, and the battery is on its way out. I'm not 20 anymore and I'm no longer interested in mucking about with hacking the phone, so Cyanogenmod isn't an option. Replacing the battery is an option, and I may do that, but I'd rather just save the hassle and upgrade... if anything worth upgrading to existed.
Disappointing change of direction by Google. When they started on Android they envisioned phones becoming like PC's (i.e. you would buy the hardware and install whatever software you liked). I realise that phone manufacturers stood in the way of that somewhat but at least they didn't go full Apple, until now.
How is it going "full Apple" when there are still going to be millions of Android phones manufactured by other companies? Did Microsoft go full Apple when they released the Surface tablets?
I couldn't comment on the Surface tables but I think that Google were doing alright with the Nexus devices. Now it feels like they're keeping stuff away from manufacturers.
It's a rectangle with a screen in the middle. Like an iPhone without the button. I didn't need to see a leak to know that, and don't see why this is news. The smartphone market has become really boring in the last few years. Does anyone care anymore?
What kind of new trends do you want? Stupid motion gestures that activate when you don't want them to, and don't when you do? More features based on voice recognition that send you to Texas when you want to go across town? More biometrics features that add cost without any benefit? More poorly supported tech features like MTP that obfuscate the computing base behind the OS, making basic computing tasks like file transfers difficult? Some garbage "3D screen" effect that makes text jimmy around when you tilt the phone for some reason?
Front-facing camera was a new trend. Siri was a new trend. Cloud was a new trend. Tap-and-pay was a belated new trend.
Newer trends could be 1) iPhone/Tablet docks to a full laptop (Continuity was a dismal step). 2) App synergies between web and phone 3) daul screen phones 4) perfected implementations of all of the throwaway features you mentioned.
I guess the trends are now focused on smart watches. But it is underwhelming. I am not going to give examples, because there will be plenty of dissenters. But the smartwatch could be so much more.
Say what? No, Jobs and iPhone was what turned the market into glass slabs! Back when Nokia and Ericcson (never mind Siemens) was the primary engines of phone design you got some real attempts at innovation.
I have heard this Jobs bashing quite a few times and it has always left me confused. Here is what I know. Before iPhone I had a n-something phone from Nokia that in principle was a phone sized laptop. Yet, I never browsed on it unless I had to. There were some pointless apps, some "productivity" apps and some Uber technical apps none of which I would use because there was no user base. Ie.. no point looking at maps for restaurants, since it was an alphabetical list. Using browser to google something was a pain with the tedious UI. I could go on..
I am no apple fanboy. Never had an iPhone after version 2 or so. But let's give credit where it is due. Design is not just about form. It is also about usability. iPhone made the phone form factor usable for the masses. Sometimes the innovation is flawless execution.
> The smartphone market has become really boring in the last few years. Does anyone care anymore?
I'd say tech-focused blogs which earn advertisement dollars on hypes and clickbait-titles are interested. They'll try to push it as something must see interesting to drive their own traffic. As an annual event for several vendors it's probably a source of regular, primary income.
But this is The Guardian. I'd expect better from them.
Why do I still need to carry a laptop and a phone around ? Of the big guys the only ones doing anything interesting here are Microsoft and Continuum https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/Continuum - seems like the meme of distrupting yourself; cannibalizing your own revenue streams is great in theory but not in practice...
Crazy part is that Motorola tried doing just that with Android, and it seemed like Google was poised to go the same way once they unveiled their tablet ui. but then ChromeOS happened and non-phone Android went on the backburner.
IMO the idea of "_____ on the back" is terrible usability. My grandma has an LG something or other with the volume and power buttons on the back, and every time I use it, I have to flip the phone over to see which button I'm pushing. That's fine, I don't use it often. But she uses it every day, and she still does that. Granted she's super old, but phones aren't made exclusively for Millennials. My car has controls behind the steering wheel, but for every control behind the steering wheel there is a control on the dashboard too. Nothing is exclusively hidden out of sight.
the fingerprint scanner on the back is actually incredibly useful, at best it is placed just where you would put your finger whilst holding the phone in normal use, at worst you tap your finger and move it to the more comfortable position. I agree that any other buttons on the back are not useful but having had this feature on my phone for a few weeks now I would hate to go back to always needing to pin unlock it.
I have a Nexus 6P, and the fingerprint scanner on the back of the phone is brilliant.
It is very easy to find without looking, and you can unlock the phone one handed. I actually can't imagine why one would want the fingerprint scanner on the front of the phone.
Well there's already a button there that I'm already in the process of pushing. I don't even have to think about if I'm using the fingerprint reader in an iPhone, I just click the button I was already about to press and it automatically unlocks the phone as well.
What's the point in having a giant bezel to fit a front button like the Pixel if you're moving half of the function of that button to the back? Now I have to specifically place my finger somewhere just so the fingerprint can be read.
I unlock an iPhone one-handed all the time. Just tap the home button. Done.
> My grandma has an LG something or other with the volume and power buttons on the back,
That design was actually based on Proper Market Research (tm) wherein LG determined that most phone droppages occurred when people were using edge-mounted buttons and therefore only holding the phone lightly. With the buttons on the reverse you can keep a firm grasp of the phone whilst activating them.
Plus of course it's a differentiator in a crowded market, but I wouldn't be surprised if it originated on a Chinese design. That's where the real innovation is happening.
Has it ever really been interesting beyond the initial iPhone showing the full web can exist on a phone and pushing carriers out of bundling their crapware?
More than the previous model, probably not, but for the many of us that are a few generations behind, yes. I am in the market for an upgrade from my Note3 and I'm paying attention.
Happy to see 128GB versions at launch. I like to keep my stuff (including music etc) on my phone and I've had to resort to phones with microSD slots to date. If this is a "sensibly" specced phone, I might skip modding my N5 with 128GB flash.
Wouldn't having the fingerprint scanner on the back be annoying sometimes? For example, when your phone is just laying on the table and you want to quickly unlock it without picking it up.
75 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 130 ms ] threadEdit: Also, I hope not. Mobile phones don't need anymore gimmicks, we just need removable SD cards and batteries brought back and we'd all be set.
I think there will be other announcements. The Android SVP is certainly hyping the event: "We announced the 1st version of Android 8 years ago today. I have a feeling 8 years from now we'll be talking about Oct 4, 2016."
I never really understand this. Surely Samsung has the technical expertise to develop an OS to suit their own hardware?
Is it really worth relying on Google to make Android, and then "modify it" to suit their needs?
It is clear the benefit of Apple having control over the entire product - why do other large smart phone companies not do this?
Samsung is, however, developing Tizen, their own OS, which runs on the gear s3 watch and a number of smartphones. But the appstore is still pretty empty and consumers are weary.
Samsung phones would be worth much less without the Play store, and everything follows from there.
1) https://www.tizen.org/
But it means Samsung's versions lag Google significantly, and Samsung is quick to orphan their own products. So Samsung customers start behind, and get stranded in the past of Android. Also, app developers often have to to test specifically on Samsung phones because Samsung has introduced bugs and security issues with their modifications.
Sure, they do. Its just a huge expense and then you've got to market both your tech stack and your app store to developers, otherwise, you've got a smart phone without apps to sell. With Android, you've got apps, plus you can still try to market your own unique stack on top of android and app store for additional benefit (and Samsung does), but in the worst case you've still got access to the Android ecosystem and Google Play Store, which provides value to your hardware.
The 2013 Moto X was perfect: flagship specs, 4.7 inches, and basically stock Android. Seems such perfection was a flash in the pan.
This being said, I recently discovered the "one-handed keyboard feature" on my OP2 and absolutely love it. I can finally answer messages while swiping with a single hand.
Screenshot: https://ibin.co/2xCShGbpGdGt.png
Here's an older post of me asking: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12540268
Z5C (350$) or Z3C (250) seems to come up a lot in my search. I'm also tempted by the nexus 5x (probably at my limit at 5.2" but it's only 250ish), and perhaps the new pixel (which is 5" but probably way more than I'm willing to pay for a phone). Another interesting contender is Nextbit Robin, which is 5.2 inches for 230ish and very pretty.
I've been eyeing Xiaomi phones for a while, but unsure that I want to go to the hassle of getting a device that's unservicable in the US.
On another route, HTC one M8 (5" - 170ish!) seems to be an old flagship that still does well, and us now super cheap. I wonder what other similar ones there are.
edit: to be honest I've given up on finding sub-5", and thinking about 5.2.
The time when even Android fans wish Steve Jobs was still around.
Innovation has faltered and we are now just focusing on incremental improvements in current techs. No new trends.
Newer trends could be 1) iPhone/Tablet docks to a full laptop (Continuity was a dismal step). 2) App synergies between web and phone 3) daul screen phones 4) perfected implementations of all of the throwaway features you mentioned.
I guess the trends are now focused on smart watches. But it is underwhelming. I am not going to give examples, because there will be plenty of dissenters. But the smartwatch could be so much more.
I'd say tech-focused blogs which earn advertisement dollars on hypes and clickbait-titles are interested. They'll try to push it as something must see interesting to drive their own traffic. As an annual event for several vendors it's probably a source of regular, primary income.
But this is The Guardian. I'd expect better from them.
Why do I still need to carry a laptop and a phone around ? Of the big guys the only ones doing anything interesting here are Microsoft and Continuum https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/Continuum - seems like the meme of distrupting yourself; cannibalizing your own revenue streams is great in theory but not in practice...
(Although, yes, that will work well for Netflix and badly for coding. The question in my mind is what about everything in between)
But this one _could_ be made for one market, and other people could buy a _different_ phone that was made for a different market...
It is very easy to find without looking, and you can unlock the phone one handed. I actually can't imagine why one would want the fingerprint scanner on the front of the phone.
What's the point in having a giant bezel to fit a front button like the Pixel if you're moving half of the function of that button to the back? Now I have to specifically place my finger somewhere just so the fingerprint can be read.
I unlock an iPhone one-handed all the time. Just tap the home button. Done.
That design was actually based on Proper Market Research (tm) wherein LG determined that most phone droppages occurred when people were using edge-mounted buttons and therefore only holding the phone lightly. With the buttons on the reverse you can keep a firm grasp of the phone whilst activating them.
Plus of course it's a differentiator in a crowded market, but I wouldn't be surprised if it originated on a Chinese design. That's where the real innovation is happening.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaOgZwk9rN8
I miss the old days when all kinds of mobile phones were being innovated in a mobile phone primordial soup.
Of course, granted, they were far less useful!
1. Sony Ericsson W800, the first Walkman phone with a good music player
2. Sony Ericsson K800, the camera phone with a good camera (even had Xenon flash)
3. Nokia N95, the everyday phone with multitasking
4. Apple, the iPhone with a good web browser and UI to support the next generation of mobile apps
After that it's all been iteration to get everything up to acceptable speeds and capacities to support the app ecosystem
EDIT: appears to also have microSD slot!