> Is the electricity generation clean? Unlikely in SEA.
No doubt true, but possibly the wrong question to be asking. Is a coal fired plant outside of Jakarta going to produce less pollution than all those buses and cheap motorcyles generating their pollution right where all the people are?
Saw the video was from 2007.. looked for an update. It was designed in the 1970s. This was the first system, and was installed in 1989. It's a 2mi loop. In 2013, they installed a 0.6mi line at a Brazilian airport.
That's a lot cheaper than light rail.. but it's hard to do a fair comparison, because of the labor difference and light rail projects (at least in the US) include stuff like tunnels, re-routing highways, etc.
I'm curious as to when exactly that video was recorded. It must have been after 1989, but it looks like those 1970s era films we used to watch in elementary school. Which is kind of appropriate given the incredibly simple technology they're using.
I lived in Jakarta in 2010... there is no such system operating (and IMO there never will be - it is inferior to conventional electric light rail despite the claims to the contrary made in the video).
But there are a bunch of unused concrete pylons that look just like the ones in the video on certain roads. I was told that was for a light rail system that got cancelled due to rising cost issues. Not sure it was this though, a Japanese contractor that was shafted by the government was mentioned.
I've lived there 20% time since 2009 have never heard of this system. People said the same thing to me about those pylons. They've since launched a "busway" system and are currently building a proper light rail MRT system. It should theoretically begin operation of one of the lines next year. Lots of good work being done now.
The one in the video is a small test loop in a theme park in south Jakarta (TMII). Its still operational, very noisy. They open up the windows at both end to keep the passengers cool. If you get up early you can go for a jog on the track before it starts!
Various Jakarta monorail / light rail projects have failed in the meantime, however recently work has begun on an elevated light rail and it looks to be making good progress.
I stumbled across the Aeromovel on Wikipedia ("Hyperloop" > "Atmospheric railway" to "Atmospheric railway - Aeromovel" [1]). I was looking for a diagram to explain exactly how it worked, but couldn't really find one. However this video actually does a really good job of explaining it, all the way down to the guy crawling around in the air duct.
The Aeromovel is about as low-tech as the Hyperloop is high tech. Of course it addresses a different part of the transit problem space, but it looks like it actually works, and it's easy to see why it's really cheap.
That's a neat little system. The atmospheric railways of the 19th century failed because they lacked a good sealing material for the slot. They tried to use leather, which didn't last very long. With synthetic rubber, it can work, although I wonder how often they have to replace the gaskets.
The size of the air duct is much larger than the 19th century systems, and the pressure is quite low, only 0.16 atmosphere. There is a switch for this system, and it's not too big.[1] (Monorail switches tend to be bulky.)
Another system (4.7km) is under construction, or at least contracted for, in Canoas, Brazil. This is planned to be expanded into a sizable metro system.
Aeromovel probably would have been an improvement over that cable-hauled kludge at the Oakland airport. That cost $484 million for a 3.2 mile system with two cars. Only two cars; there cannot be more, because of the way the cable system works.
It's still running. It's more of a theme park ride nowadays though than an actual transit system. Noisy, very energy inefficient and costly to maintain.
Further evidence, if you start on Google streetmap here you can see one of the trains rounding a curve into one of the high level stations and then departing:
Although it has been a project for more than 30 years, it is something locals are really proud. The same local company implemented both projects (the brazilian one and this in Jarkata).
The system shown here is not mass transit, but a Disneyland Monorail style theme park ride that serves the Taman Mini amusement park on the outskirts of Jakarta:
The video mentions the South Devon Railway, "which failed". That railway was planned by Isambard Kingdom Brunel, and opened in 1847. There are a few pumping stations along the route, which used steam engines to create a vacuum in a pipe laid along the middle of the tracks. The railway was converted to steam engines and then to diesel when the atmospheric system failed to live up to expectations. The main problem was that the leather seal along the slot on the top of the pipe failed - officially due to wear, freezing solid, or drying out and going stiff. The leather was lubricated with whale oil, and some say that rats took a fancy to this ready source of food.
There is still a pub called the atmospheric railway inn in Starcross, which the train would have passed.
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[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 56.3 ms ] threadIs the electricity generation clean? Unlikely in SEA.
I don't think they really cared about that though.. this was a pilot project
No doubt true, but possibly the wrong question to be asking. Is a coal fired plant outside of Jakarta going to produce less pollution than all those buses and cheap motorcyles generating their pollution right where all the people are?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_railway#Aeromovel
They're working on a new 3.75mi line in downtown Canoas BR. http://www.aeromovel.com.br/en/projeto/canoas/
In this 1993 article, they say this cost $9m US to construct (using local labor and materials) and $500k/yr to operate. http://articles.latimes.com/1993-01-17/business/fi-2255_1_tr...
That's a lot cheaper than light rail.. but it's hard to do a fair comparison, because of the labor difference and light rail projects (at least in the US) include stuff like tunnels, re-routing highways, etc.
But there are a bunch of unused concrete pylons that look just like the ones in the video on certain roads. I was told that was for a light rail system that got cancelled due to rising cost issues. Not sure it was this though, a Japanese contractor that was shafted by the government was mentioned.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12722390
Various Jakarta monorail / light rail projects have failed in the meantime, however recently work has begun on an elevated light rail and it looks to be making good progress.
The Aeromovel is about as low-tech as the Hyperloop is high tech. Of course it addresses a different part of the transit problem space, but it looks like it actually works, and it's easy to see why it's really cheap.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_railway#Aeromovel
The size of the air duct is much larger than the 19th century systems, and the pressure is quite low, only 0.16 atmosphere. There is a switch for this system, and it's not too big.[1] (Monorail switches tend to be bulky.)
Another system (4.7km) is under construction, or at least contracted for, in Canoas, Brazil. This is planned to be expanded into a sizable metro system.
Aeromovel probably would have been an improvement over that cable-hauled kludge at the Oakland airport. That cost $484 million for a 3.2 mile system with two cars. Only two cars; there cannot be more, because of the way the cable system works.
[1] http://www.eureka.tu.chiba-u.ac.jp/download/jseht/Aeromovel%...
Source: my dad worked on constructing the thing
One of the "trains" stopped at a station:
https://goo.gl/maps/5Ju92GQQmPP2
Further evidence, if you start on Google streetmap here you can see one of the trains rounding a curve into one of the high level stations and then departing:
https://goo.gl/maps/oXD8gkXaHcM2
https://goo.gl/maps/VDcCFP9rvAK2
https://goo.gl/maps/Sa17Q5P7FNS2
https://goo.gl/maps/xZsViC3ctER2
One of the air release gates mentioned in the film:
https://goo.gl/maps/Shv8vApiYix
Although it has been a project for more than 30 years, it is something locals are really proud. The same local company implemented both projects (the brazilian one and this in Jarkata).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taman_Mini_Indonesia_Indah
https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHS_23_Aero_Movel_Indonesia
http://www.tamanmini.com/sarana-keliling/shs-23-aeromovel-in...
It runs in a six-station, 3.2km unidirectional loop.
There is still a pub called the atmospheric railway inn in Starcross, which the train would have passed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_railway