* ANDROID 6.0 (Marshmallow)
* Professional results from a 21MP fast focus camera sensor with F2.0,
PDAF, OIS, Dual LED Flash
* 13MP phase detection auto focus front-facing camera with F2.2 PDAF
* Helio X20 2.3GHz Decacore processor with 3GB RAM
* 32GB memory, expandable with MicroSD cards
* Advanced Manual Mode – adjustable on Exposure, ISO,
Focal Length (Manual/Auto), White Balance,
Shutter Speed, Aperture (fixed f2.0 main camera)
* Familiar scene selection dial experience – includes scene modes
Smart Auto, Portrait, Manual, Sports, Bokeh, * Night-time, HDR,
Panorama, Macro, Landscape, Film / Video
* Integrated high quality printing app
* Super 8 Video Recorder
* Integrated social media sharing
* 3000mAh, with USB 3.0 Type C fast charger
It is definitely a Sony sensor, thought to be the previous-gen IMX230 ( same as in the Experia Z4 and iPhone 6). So that's 1/2.4 inches, or 5.92x4.57mm. Pretty much standard fare for Chinese mid-tier Mediatek phones.
For comparison the famous Nokia 808 had a 1/1.2 inch sensor, 10.67x8.00mm.
I was pretty interested in this, but $550 seems to steep. What is that price point supposed to compete with? To low for iphone/pixel, too high for many other android phones.
That's at the low end of 'flagship phone' list price and I take $550 as a list price. If demand is high, then it will hold for a while.
For a person who is buying a phone in part around their interest in the quality of the camera and assuming the camera performs well, then it may be worth a premium.
Decacore? I've never heard of Helio SOCs but I really wonder about the cores race of Android SOCs these days. Are heavier apps these days really multi-threaded?
did i miss something on the kodak site, or did they forget to mention that it's a smartphone? Or did ars get that wrong? reading through the full marketing page linked at the top here, i don't see any indication that it's anything other than a digital camera running android.
It's a continuation of scene. I think they were attempting a panorama where half was "before" and half was after, but the subject and feel of each side of the pano is just so different, that it hardly has a comparison effect!
It's not bad tone mapping, which is what most people think of when they think of shitty HDR. It's sharpening and increasing local contrast. This particular effect can also be created in Lightroom by pushing the "clarity" slider too far to the right.
It's a panorama image split in the middle. What it lacks to be useful is that split bar should be a slider so you can see the before after effect on that image.
I'm pretty sure the camera world has settled into two kinds of cameras: cell phones for people who just need to take a few snaps, and DSLRs for people who need more features than can possibly fit in a cameraphone (flash hotshoe, changeable lenses, larger sensor, etc). DSLRs are cheap enough that cost isn't really an issue.
I doubt the results here will be any better than Nokia had.
The non-phone camera market is more diverse than that; beyond DSLRs there's also mirrorless cameras (for people who want near-DSLR performance in a lighter body) and point-and-shoots (for people who want better-than-smartphone performance but don't need swappable lenses).
Was going to say, RX100 is in a class of its own :). I always have it with me when I travel and often have it my pocket just in case. I don't always use it, but it's small enough not to care. Especially for outdoors photography, an RX100 generally takes better pictures than a DSLR, because you're more likely to have it with you when a good picture opportunity arises.
Technically Canon and Panasonic have competing models ;)
But yeah, someone on G+ asked me, "did you get rid of your DSLR?" because all I ever post are RX100 pictures these days. I did not get rid of my DSLR, I use it for "studio" stuff, but for going out and about the RX100 is the best possible currently-available camera. (It could be smaller. But that 1" sensor is just amazing, often yielding 21,000,000 usable pixels. My iPhone just yields photograph-styled noise reduction artifacts.)
First it was a Windows phone, so it is hard to compare.
Second I think that your view is too simplistic. There are more use cases than these two. Some people prefer Fuji cameras over DSLRs, some probably would like to have a potentially decent camera with them all the time, but did not bother to have a Windows phone.
This can be the third product category. Samsung also had similar products like galaxy s4 zoom but it was looking like a plastic and bulky point-and-shoot camera. I really like the design and build of this Kodak camera and I am ready to replace both my DSLR and my phone with something like this. Of course it has to be a decent smartphone and the camera must be superior to any other smartphone cameras.
Compact mirrorless cameras are the big third category you're missing, I think. They're the perfect mix of quality, portability, and discreetness, which makes them excellent for travel and street photography. The Fuji X series are great examples. I wouldn't dream of taking my Canon 6D backpacking, but my X100T goes with me everywhere and produces excellent shots. My Instagram handle is @paulwithap if you want to see some examples (I rarely post there anymore, so this is definitely not a shameless plug ;)
Agreed! I used to have a Nikon D7000, which isn't even that big when it comes to DSLRs, but it was too heavy and too big and I ended up basically never taking it out, sometimes even while traveling.
About two years ago I got a Fuji X-T1 and it's honestly one of the best things I've ever bought. It's small, light enough, amazingly built, their lenses are incredible, and it's just so functional. The WiFi functionality is awesome because with only my phone I can transfer pictures and post on Instagram while traveling. The straight out of camera JPEGs are so good I never do any editing.
They do, however, mention DSLR multiple times in their presentation. Probably just to get the product associated with the image quality that people expect from DSLRs, but it is a bit confusing.
I understand that Kodak is probably "dipping their toe in the water with this model," but 32GB is not enough storage.
I'd like to know more about the phone, though. Is it a good phone? I mean, is it a good phone? The concept of a phone that's also a quality Kodak camera is cool, but at the end of the day, I'd like to know that it's also great at doing everything else I do with my phone.
Also, does it have a standard 3.5mm headphone jack?
They do provide a microSD card slot. 32GB onboard may not be stellar (for photography in particular), but the ability to easily get the data off to a memory card easily offsets that limitation. And makes it more useful for travelers who may not be able to (frequently) sync up with a laptop or cloud service.
I specifically made that comment because I upgraded my phone with an SD card. It's nowhere as good as having enough storage built in; and I'll never buy a phone where I have to augment storage again.
Given that they're featuring "edit with Snapseed" on the page, they might have a Pixel-like deal with Google for unlimited original-quality uploads to Google Photos.
This is actually an interesting product, but is there a reason they wouldn't make the aperture f/1.8 like the iPhone?
I'm not aware if there may be downsides or hardware limitations to that. If cost is the only issue, it would seem worth it if you're making a photography-focused camera just to get as much light as possible into that sensor.
A 1/3 stop is ... not much. With different cameras with different lens designs and most importantly different sensors it's unlikely to be a significant contributor to a difference between two products.
The difference in transmission between two lenses with one having few (eg 50/1.x) and the other having a lot (eg superzoom) elements can get that large.
This is why cinema lenses report t-stops ('transmission') in addition to f-stops. The t-stops tell you about exposure, and account for losses between surfaces and absorption within the media. The f-stop tells you about depth of field, etc.
With modern lenses, they're usually within a small fraction of a stop, but older lenses could vary by a stop or more. That said, the difference between this camera and an iPhone camera, in terms of relative transmission, is probably negligible.
My knee-jerk reaction was to want this, but the more I thought about the product, it really would be for someone wanting a good camera on the go, but not enough to warrant a better separate camera, AND willing to deal with a worse smartphone experience.
While it may seem an irrelevant detail, the camera-like leatherette case that flips or snaps open like the old camera cases did, not only made me smile but gave me hope that they were clued in enough to their market as to make it a success.
To me it's a huge drawback and makes it a no buy. No way I'm going to vote with my money and award them for using inefficient, unrecycled, inferior material instead of abundant recyclable non-animal sourced material.
Edit: Thanks for the flags and downvotes, hate is so fresh here.
I'm a huge fan of customizable camera firmware. Playing with software controlling visual input brings me joy, have bunch of cameras and lack of leather is not a problem at all.
Odd choice for the name, since Kodak also has a color negative film called "Ektar" [0] which is just a single transposition away from this new phone's name.
How's it odd? It looks like they've already repurposed Ektar once before. Ektra sounds better (to me, anyway) and there's no chance that film purchasers will be confused.
The only thing i can remember about Kodak phones is that The Verge tried the first Kodak phone last year at CES 2015 and it was a disaster.
It had a horrible Android skin on that made it look like old Nokia phones
Hope they upped their game with this one.
I think they are doing the right thing. Taking pictures is a core feature of smartphone usage and smartphones took a lot of camera-marketshare. Vacations have become much more enjoyable since people don't have to carry the international sign of gullibility around their neck, the tourist's camera, that also weighs more than a phone, costs at least as much and has a terrible OS.
I too think though that Kodak can't be superior on smartphone stuff. At least not on their first iterations. But having the stomach to pursue such a dramatic and pragmatic shift in as how to perceive their product says a lot. Either about the company's future prospects or of how much they are on their last legs.
What is the camera sensor model and manufacturer? So far based on hardware features list it doesn't look like a photo oriented smartphone, but more like a regular Androind based phone.
209 comments
[ 4.6 ms ] story [ 244 ms ] threadMuch more info in this blog post: http://www.kodak.com/US/en/Consumer/Press_Center/KODAK_EKTRA...
KODAK EKTRA Smartphone key features:
Edit: Another separate product page, this one has a WORKING "before/after" panorama example: http://www.kodakphones.com/ektra/Edit 2: Their "super 8" is just a filter. Scroll down on the page above to see.
Their web content is really disjointed...
The big plastic thing around the small lens to Make It Look Like A Camera is kind of silly.
For comparison the famous Nokia 808 had a 1/1.2 inch sensor, 10.67x8.00mm.
For a person who is buying a phone in part around their interest in the quality of the camera and assuming the camera performs well, then it may be worth a premium.
[0]: http://www.kodak.com/KodakGCG/uploadedImages/Consumer/Produc...
For a true before/after, see these images:
http://kp.kinsta.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/before.jpg
http://kp.kinsta.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/after.jpg
Sharpening effect is very prominent on these examples. Hopefully there is an configuration option for this.
Seems like they got the two photos, but didn't figure out the tech behind it.
Shuldnt they tout the expected superior output from the sensor compared to leading camera smartphones? Galaxy S7, iPHone 7?...
If it were of a fruit bowl, you could make the joke "they're literally comparing apples and oranges".
You can't say "look at photo X, and now see how much more awesome photo Y is that has been edited with our software!"
http://codepen.io/nikolaygit/pen/wFqjE
I'm pretty sure the camera world has settled into two kinds of cameras: cell phones for people who just need to take a few snaps, and DSLRs for people who need more features than can possibly fit in a cameraphone (flash hotshoe, changeable lenses, larger sensor, etc). DSLRs are cheap enough that cost isn't really an issue.
I doubt the results here will be any better than Nokia had.
Now, if you have multiple cameras...
But yeah, someone on G+ asked me, "did you get rid of your DSLR?" because all I ever post are RX100 pictures these days. I did not get rid of my DSLR, I use it for "studio" stuff, but for going out and about the RX100 is the best possible currently-available camera. (It could be smaller. But that 1" sensor is just amazing, often yielding 21,000,000 usable pixels. My iPhone just yields photograph-styled noise reduction artifacts.)
Second I think that your view is too simplistic. There are more use cases than these two. Some people prefer Fuji cameras over DSLRs, some probably would like to have a potentially decent camera with them all the time, but did not bother to have a Windows phone.
We are about to find out how big is this market.
About two years ago I got a Fuji X-T1 and it's honestly one of the best things I've ever bought. It's small, light enough, amazingly built, their lenses are incredible, and it's just so functional. The WiFi functionality is awesome because with only my phone I can transfer pictures and post on Instagram while traveling. The straight out of camera JPEGs are so good I never do any editing.
Why would they do that instead of mirrorless?
I'd like to know more about the phone, though. Is it a good phone? I mean, is it a good phone? The concept of a phone that's also a quality Kodak camera is cool, but at the end of the day, I'd like to know that it's also great at doing everything else I do with my phone.
Also, does it have a standard 3.5mm headphone jack?
I can't tell if this is serious or not, but this continues to make me chuckle.
I specifically made that comment because I upgraded my phone with an SD card. It's nowhere as good as having enough storage built in; and I'll never buy a phone where I have to augment storage again.
BTW some Mediatek chips were meant to be able to do 480fps 1080p video with certain Sony sensors.. did it ever work out beyond marketing promises?
I'm not aware if there may be downsides or hardware limitations to that. If cost is the only issue, it would seem worth it if you're making a photography-focused camera just to get as much light as possible into that sensor.
Edit: Thanks for the information, fellow HNers :)
The difference in transmission between two lenses with one having few (eg 50/1.x) and the other having a lot (eg superzoom) elements can get that large.
With modern lenses, they're usually within a small fraction of a stop, but older lenses could vary by a stop or more. That said, the difference between this camera and an iPhone camera, in terms of relative transmission, is probably negligible.
That's not me unfortunately.
But my girlfriend would probably like it.
She always has junk smartphones, but high end cameras.
Edit: Thanks for the flags and downvotes, hate is so fresh here.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ektar
Ran out of words that started with "Eastman Kodak" I guess.
http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Kodak_Ektra
http://slideprojector.kodak.com/ektapro/kodak-ektapro-slide-...
http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/ektapro.html
1st Kodak phone at CES 2015 http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/5/7498999/ces-2015-kodak-phon...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPadMS75i48
I too think though that Kodak can't be superior on smartphone stuff. At least not on their first iterations. But having the stomach to pursue such a dramatic and pragmatic shift in as how to perceive their product says a lot. Either about the company's future prospects or of how much they are on their last legs.
"No selfie sticks"
Details page: Nonexistent.
Cost hint: Nonexistent.
I've seen Kickstarters more compelling.
But then I went to the page and it is uh....empty? So I guess you're right.
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/consumer/Product/Product_Specs/?c...