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Ask HN: What laptop should I get instead of a Macbook Pro?

94 points by qntty ↗ HN
I was waiting for the new MBP to buy a laptop, but the recent announcement left me cold. What laptops have you found to be comparable in build quality to MBP? It looks like HP Elitebooks and Asus Zenbooks might be possible candidates. Are Lenovos worth considering post-superfish-gate?

116 comments

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synchrone
I am using HP Spectre x360. Really close to MBP 13". Never actually used the tablet mode. Bonus points for hassle-free linux experience.
tetraodonpuffer
I am surprised that most of these posts tend to gather recommendation for dell, and very few people mention the spectre which to me seems great and is on my shortlist of laptops to get when my old macbook finally kicks the can

How are you finding it in linux? does everything work well?

[edit] my perception of the x360 was based on the older models, after reading this[1] on the stylus issues on the newer ones I am starting to wonder now

[1]http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Video-Display-and-Touc...

nmstoker
I agree the Spectre looks good, and I'd be delighted to find it's reliable, but I've had too many incidents with HP over the last 15 years or so to feel confident... Whether it's my own kit or fixing that bought by others (friends & family). But perhaps it's time to give them a shot again
synchrone
I've been using it since December 2015, and for the most part everything was working nicely. The issues I had would be present on any other laptop running linux, so it's not related only to this one:

- Hi-DPI still deserves some love, especially if you're using different DPI on different screens (e.g an external 4k display), although ubuntu gnome seems to handle it better than plain ubuntu and definitely better than xubuntu.

- Tablet mode is funny: orientation sensors don't work well, keyboard & touchpad are not autodisabled in tablet mode, but then again it's not my use-case, so I just disabled all those features.

- (ok this one is a flaw of this particular laptop): When the display lid is closed, the touchpad is not auto-disabled, which results in weird mouse movement and clicks, since the lid presses on it. I had to hook an X-event with a script to disable the touchpad input device when the lid is closed.

Other than that - everything works flawlessly.

baumandm
Same here, I just picked up the latest iteration with Kaby Lake (released this month) with maxed out specs, for only $1300. Just aesthetically it has to be one of the nicest looking laptops I've seen.

I installed Arch Linux for dual-booting, which was definitely hassle-free as you said. The convertible/tablet mode works great in Windows, but I haven't gotten it to work well on Linux (need to disable the keyboard & trackpad). But I can develop in Linux, then reboot and browse the web or watch a movie.

baccheion
There are 4 laptops I'd buy right now (if I could):

- Asus ZenBook Pro UX501VW (15.6")

- MacBook Pro 2016 (15.6")

- Dell XPS (13" or 15")

- Lenovo X1 Carbon

If you don't like the MacBook Pro (or think it's too expensive), then I'd go with the ZenBook Pro.

simon1573
I got a Asus Zenbook UX32vd a few years and I'm still very satisfied. Good Linux support and a nice screen and keyboard. The mouse pad could be more responsive though.
brudgers
Dell Precisions are well built.
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rayalez
I am extremely happy with my Lenovo ThinkPad X1. It is beautiful, powerful, and is pure joy to use.

Dell XPS 13 is also a very good alternative, I've heard.

vladimir-y
Lenovo X1 has no Thunderbolt 3 ports (not a single port), Dell XPS laptops have widely known coil whine problem. So not the best choice.
5ersi
We'll the Macbook Pro 2015 is still a decent machine. We should expect to see some discounts as it phases out in the following weeks.
TurboHaskal
- Dell XPS 13

- Thinkpad x250 (x260 has PWM issues)

- 4th Gen Thinkpad x1 Carbon (FHD model to avoid screen lottery)

- Thinkpad x1 Carbon Yoga (OLED)

- Refurbished 2015 Macbook Pro

Matachines
Do you know if refurbished Macs commonly have scuff marks or other wear?
TurboHaskal
I have never bought any. But colleagues swear they are "like new".
Matachines
Hm. Might get a maxed out refurbished 2015 Macbook, seems like it's around $500 cheaper.
desigooner
I've been using a "refurb" Macbook Air 13 for the last 3.5 years. It was scuff-free when I bought it and it's been great so far. I've started running into some issues now such as battery health and the fan going on for extended periods of time since the last OS update.
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codegeek
I bought a refurbished Mac Pro and it looked new to me. Has worked well so far and I never could tell the difference between a brand new and the refurbished one. Saved almost $400 compared to a brand new one. I say go for a refurbished one.
kohanz
Mine was pristine. I'm pretty sure they replace the battery and the case (if need be), so it always appears new.
dstaley
I've purchased two certified refurbished Macs, a MacBook Air in 2012 and a Retina MacBook Pro in 2015. Both were cosmetically new.
gregshap
Usually not, most come from Apple's 2 week free open box return window
thaeli
Apple replaces the outer shell during the refurb process. Every Apple refurb I've ever seen was cosmetically perfect - these are the same units they use for warranty replacements.
ralphael
I bought a refurbished MacBook Pro over 6 years ago now. It was in perfect condition. My 2010 model is still going strong. When I bought it they had upgraded for free the RAM to 8GB and gave me the 7200 RPM drive as a nice surprise.
PascLeRasc
I got my 2014 13" rMBP refurbished and saved about $200 that way, and it looks identical to my brother's new model he got a few months later.
Goronmon
4th Gen Thinkpad x1 Carbon

Picked up one of these a couple months ago. Nice little machine for sure, especially if you are addicted to Trackpoints.

izolate
I'm quite happy with my mid-2014 Macbook Pro, but if I were in the market for an upgrade, I'd buy a Razer Blade Stealth and install Ubuntu on it.
mdasen
As an add-on question: how can one figure out if a laptop supports Precision Touchpad rather than trying to emulate a mouse with the trackpad? Does Precision Touchpad actually make Windows trackpad usable and enjoyable like the Mac ones? Is Precision Touchpad supported by Linux distros?
jdalgetty
This was one of the reasons I returned the xps 13 I bought. As nice of a computer as it was, I found the touchpad to be very frustrating to use vs my mac air.
dolguldur
I can seccond that. Had an XPS 15 whichs sports an etched-glass trackpad that still sucks so much I barely used it.
savanaly
In the spirit of "teach a man to fish" I'll plug this handy resource for consumer electronics that I think makes very trustworthy and good recommendations. [1]

And they have an entire article devoted to the topic of laptops. [2]

[1] http://thewirecutter.com/

[2] http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/what-laptop-should-i-buy-th...

randlet
Unfortunately they ignore Linux as far as I could tell on a quick browse. Having Linux work with the hardware out of the box (more or less) is crucial.
NDizzle
Razer has a 14" laptop that looks really nice, if you can look a little past the color scheme.

http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade

They also have a 17" and a 12.5" laptop, but you're probably looking for something in between 13 and 15.

I'm in the same market. I have a late 2013 Macbook Pro and there is ZERO chance I'm buying a modern 15" MBP. The Touch Bar is offensive to the point that I'll put up with Windows instead.

[dead] altern8
Very nice (besides the price, that's crazy).

As for the horrible colors, you can actually choose your own color.

I wonder how well would Linux work on this.

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skizm
I've actually been more and more impressed with Razer lately. At first I was totally against their stuff claiming they were over charging for "cool colored" stuff that was the same or worst than their alternatives (which was true at the time), but I've slowly started using some of their stuff and it is actually pretty nice. And the new stuff they're putting out seems like it actually might be top of the line stuff and worth the price.

That said, I have no idea if this laptop is any good, I just wanted to mention my feelings toward the company as a whole because I know a lot of people like me who think of all their stuff as over priced normal stuff with "cool color schemes".

Keyframe
What's the battery life on Razer Blade? One thing I like about Macbooks is that, for some reason, they can work in dusty environment and still stay silent(ish) after that. That's especially true for Macbook Air.
intruder
how's the touch bar offensive?
ljw1001
If there was a truly-good cloud IDE for Java I would buy a chrome book. When I think of the tens of thousands of dollars I've spent on compute hardware over the years I want to cry.
kozhevnikov
I'm waiting for Dell XPS 15 to get Kaby Lake update.
jdalgetty
I'm curious about this myself. I want to know what they'll do with the video card as well as if they'll be able to solve the coil whine issues. Also hoping for an improved touch pad.
SteveNuts
I just got a System76 Lemur.

The actual build quality isn't great, but it's functional with no frills which is exactly what I wanted.

chomp
I am using the Dell Precision 5510, it is really nice.

http://i.dell.com/sites/imagecontent/merchandizing/Publishin...

Comes pre-installed with either Windows or Ubuntu 14.04 LTS. Also comes with Thunderbolt over USB type-c so you can charge and hook up your peripherals over 1 cable.

windexh8er
I think this is the sleeper laptop in this thread. I scoured and scoured for a laptop with a 15" footprint, nice large matte screen, and not 4k (for reasons obvious when considering running Linux painlessly still - and the fact that I really didn't want a 4k screen from a battery life consideration).

I started down the path of Lenovo since I've had decent success in the past. I literally ordered a P50 the day you could order them. Ended up getting rid of it (long story in itself) because I found the Linux support of it was just downright bad. The laptop is a dream on paper (I had an i7 with 64GB of RAM) but running Linux on it in a workspace that includes multiple monitors was just a ridiculous challenge day after day. For one - multi-monitor support is very broken in the firmware when running on the Intel GPU. This may have been addressed by now, but it was a royal PitA trying to get to a working setup that was frictionless in my work cycle. The TL;DR of it was I wanted the NVidia there for a few things I'd use a few times a month - but 99% of my workflow would be done with Intel GPU. Also I've found that the newer Lenovo units have quality control issues. While the P50 was decent, it felt cheap (in my personal opinion) for a workstation class laptop. The plastic (even though Mil grade) is long in the tooth, especially when compared to a lot of the premium chassis experience you get with a lot of other laptops.

If you look here: http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/555/campaigns/xps-linux-lapt...

You'll find all of the Dell laptops that have a good indication of Linux support.

I really liked the 5510 on paper, but couldn't find any solid experience reviews with regard to Linux. So I took a risk and bought a refurb unit off eBay that had a full warranty to save a few bucks in case it wasn't what I expected.

The laptop I got was certified refurb from Dell and I will say I didn't start off on the right foot for the first two months. The 5510 would shut off if you picked it up. Yep, that's right. So I opened a ticket with Dell and they offered on-site or remote repair. The way it was presented it sounded like remote repair would be faster so I sent it in. Got it back in a few days and same thing. Literally Dell stated they replaced the mainboard and "tested". Clearly the person fixing it didn't read or actually do anything (hindsight I should have documented the original mainboard prior to sending).

Then the email and phone tag back and forth with Dell. They originally stated that they would replace the entire system if they repaired it and the same issue persisted, so I held them to that asking for a total system replacement (thinking it would speed up my road to a usable system).

First blunder: they send me an "upgraded" 5510 with the 4k screen. I don't want the 4k screen I tell Dell. They state that it's an upgrade. I argue it's not and oh by the way after actually booting it the screen has a nice blue blemish right in the middle of it about the size of a quarter - so it's broken anyway (this was not a refurb unit but brand new).

I tell Dell to send me a 1080p version of the 5510. They state they don't make them anymore. I argue you can buy them online still - really? Really Dell?

Miraculously after 2 months from start to finish another refurb 1080p version of 5510 shows up (no warning from Dell). It's refurb and it works. I'm happy.

Now that I have it - it's great. The Linux support is awesome, the screen is awesome (XPS "borderlesss" type screen). But the part I really wanted was the RAM support beyond 16GB. There's just no reason to not support 32 or 64 with the advent of 16GB sticks these days. The 5510 supports 32, so I have a nice Linux laptop with 32GB of RAM, a ...

berkeleynerd
For those wishing to run Linux, which of laptops require no (or minimal, I suppose) closed source firmware? I tend to prefer Debian sans non-free but I'm practical enough to just weight that as one factor among many.
NightlyDev
I'm very happy with my XPS 13, great build quality, great battery life, new hardware, tiny screen borders(resulting in a tiny laptop) and linux support.
jdalgetty
I had the skylake version of this and returned it in two weeks. It was a nice little computer but had a lot of weird issues.
ktt
I should've done the same. After 8 months of having it it still has a lot of very weird issues. I hoped Dell would somehow fix it with a firmware update but nope... everything is still the same.
fpoling
I have XPS 13 with Linux but consider installing Windows and using Linux in VM. The external display support is terrible, WiFi speed is halve or even less than one gets under Windows and touchpad is rather imprecise and often misses taps. This is with Ubuntu 14.04 or 16.04. I also tried Fedora 25 beta few days ago. That seems to work better, but still hardware works worse than under Windows.

Also, the display is too reflective. It was a mistake to go with 3200 resolution.

ktt
Which version? I've got XPS 13 9350 and it's been a constant pain. Boot time is very slow [0], bluetooth connectivity is weak, I've got constant graphic glitches when on battery. Latest update of the video driver introduced annoying coil noise, I had to downgrade. Actually I have two XPS 13s at home and both of them have some issues.

I'm also using Dell Thunderbold Dock TB15 and it drops video output and USB connections after 3h (because of heat) [1].

Of course I've got everything updated.

I had an excellent experience with XPS 12 years ago but this 9350 is constantly driving me crazy. I would certainly not recommend it.

[0]: http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/laptop/f/3518/p/...

[1]: http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/laptop/f/3518/p/...

swiley
XPS 13 seems to refer to a pretty large number of completely different computers manufactured by dell (some of which of some pretty serious issues).
sparky2012
Same here, haven't seen any of the issues that people are reporting below, dual booted with Arch and Ubuntu, runs like a dream.
markbnj
Most of my colleagues on our SRE/devops team have Lenovos and swear by them. I have a System76 and I wish I could recommend it. Great system software packaging, decent mainboard and display, horrible keyboard, touchpad and case quality. I'd go with a Dell or Lenovo for my next one.
skizm
I mean, not for nothing, but you do know you can still buy the old style MBP with 2x usb3 and an hdmi port, right? You don't have to get the new style ones that they announced.

That said, I hear you. I wanted a 32gb model with crazy good battery life also, but to be honest, Windows laptops are kind of all shit right now. I'm in the exact same boat as you. I hate the new MBPs and need a new laptop soon, BUT I'm still landing on the old style MBP as the way forward every time I look through the available options.

Probably not much help, but that's my 2 cents.

e: that said I am going to keep refreshing this thread and hope someone mentions something I haven't looked at yet.

hxegon
razer has some laptops with 32gb if you want to check them out.
skizm
I actually just replied to another comment saying I actually might give razer a more serious look. My initial impression a few years back was all their stuff was over priced gimmicks with unique color schemes as their only selling point, but recently that opinion has changed as I realize some of their stuff is actually pretty quality.
impostervt
I just got one from System76. I like it a lot so far.

https://system76.com/

(I got a lemur)

dom0
Looks like a Clevo reseller. Btw. the Schenker S306 looks like a neat machine for the money.
jlebrech
Chromebook and SSH into a REAL computer ;)

on a serious note, look at Aorus X5, I like the RGB keyboard. you can get it to colour the keys based on context. could be a nice alternative to the overpriced touchscreen of the new macbooks.

Gracana
> Chromebook and SSH into a REAL computer ;)

These threads have surprised me, because I figured most developers (or at least the web-focused ones that seem to be common on HN) would only need a browser and a shell. Instead, there is talk of needing 32GB of RAM. Wow.

NetStrikeForce
Not everyone is a web dev :)
Gracana
Good.

But there are a lot of developers whose work could be done on a remote machine, and I wonder if those people still prefer to work locally, and if so... why?

It's entirely possible that the complaints/calls for beast-machines don't come from any of those people at all.

jlebrech
I think there's a market for a localised CI machine or localised dev server that developers can log into which is beefy enough to do tasks at fractions of the time a devs machine would run at. Ideally it could have and IDE that runs on the server designed for collaboration.
raarts
One use case is you do work onsite and there's no Internet. Like defence industry or you work on ships.
faitswulff
I was hoping there would be more commentary on the Lenovo superfish situation as it stands today. This is exactly my concern with purchasing from them.
walterbell
Wasn't superfish limited to consumer devices, i.e. not Thinkpads?
quantumhobbit
Doesn't matter to me. If they did that to 'consumers' I don't trust them even if I am a 'professional'. Ethics are not selectively applied.

The arguement that they would never be stupid enough to do that to big corporate customers doesn't help me because I am not a big corporate customer.

basch
Thinkpad is sort of a separate company within Lenovo. That's why Lenovo says "we have headquarters in Beijing, China and Morrisville, North Carolina, U.S."
manaskarekar
Surprised to see no mention of the excellent Latitude E7450 and E7470 and the Latitude E5450 and E5470.

Run Linux beautifully, if you care about that.

basch
agreed, the 7000 series machines, while not having the pretty factor of the XPS are much better professional machines. Thinkpads and Latitudes are basically all that is left of that machine class. I could be biased against the EliteBook tho
SamUK96
They are heavy, that's why :)

For work, you need that easy-to-carry-in-a-shoulder-bag thing

NetStrikeForce
There's like a 100g difference between my E7470 (14 inches, touchscreen, i7, 256GB SSD, 16GB RAM) and the new 13 inch MacBook Pro.

The 15 inches MBP weights 30% MORE than my E7470.

Are you sure about the weight?

I couldn't be more happy with the little beast. Even though I was happy with my previous X1 Carbon (4k touchscreen, 8GB); this one feels way snappier under Win 10.