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Ask HN: Best linux laptop for developers

72 points by cobbzilla ↗ HN
So you're disappointed by the new MacBooks, lots of us feel the same way, myself included.

So what's the best, most high-powered Linux-supported laptop on the market today?

Ideal specs: quad-core cpu, 16GB+ RAM, 1TB+ SSD.

99 comments

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gordon_freeman
Similar Ask HN asked in the past.

Refer the links here:

https://hn.algolia.com/?query=best%20linux%20laptop&sort=byP...

sirspudd
Most of those links are several months to several years old, up until you get back to a link to this article, and your comment coming up first.

The fact they arent initially sorted by stagnation/date further invalidates really breaking a sweat looking up this kind of thing.

gordon_freeman
I do not say it is duplicate Ask HN for exact same reason you have mentioned: Those past posts are old.

I just pasted a quick-search url here so that folks can get some useful tips and info from those past posts. As an FYI. :)

martey
Algolia's default search is by popularity. Getting a search sorted by date is literally one click: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=best%20linux%20laptop&sort=byD...

This question (or variations on it) has been asked several times in the past few days.

grzm
It would be convenient if the UI would give feedback like that on the submission page. Maybe some kind of plugin API or JavaScript tool? Same with dupes. Not prevent you from posting, but just maybe asking Are you sure? Or Have you seen this previous post?
reefoctopus
System76 maybe? They are expensive, but you'll likely be able to build exactly what you want.
kxyvr
Unless something changed or I'm mistaken, I believe that System76 are just rebranded Clevos (http://www.clevo.com.tw/). In the U.S., Sager has the contract for distribution (https://www.sagernotebook.com) and I believe they're the ones who resell to people like System76, XoticPC, etc.

As far as these computers, I own and use a Sager NP7338 (Clevo W230SS) that I purchased through XoticPC. Works perfectly great with Linux and Sager has been pretty easy for me to contact directly and get replacement parts (a keyboard so far.) Mechanical quality is only fair. Had some problems with the hinges, which I ended up drilling out and putting in some bolts, but other than that I've been extremely happy. I've three SSDs in a 13" computer with replaceable batteries, so I've gotten plenty of good use.

wtallis
For a supposedly Linux-oriented vendor, System76 does less than you would expect to pick open-source friendly components: they offer NVidia discrete GPU options but not AMD, and use Intel WiFi instead of Qualcomm-Atheros. I wonder how much effort they put into ensuring that the rest of the system works well out of the box with Linux, especially where power management is concerned.
majewsky
Is Intel Wifi bad? All my notebooks use some sort of Centrino chipset and I've never had trouble with it, although I recall friends having trouble with their Atheros chipsets. (But that was nearly a decade ago...)
wtallis
Atheros 802.11n chipsets are the only WiFi devices that don't require any proprietary drivers or firmware (since 2008). Consequently, they're the first and sometimes only devices to benefit from new features added to the Linux WiFi stack. Qualcomm-Atheros 802.11ac chipsets require closed-source firmware like all 802.11ac chipsets, but the QCA firmware is actively maintained by people who have source access under NDA, and they generally try to make sure that the firmware exposes the functionality the open-source Linux driver wants. Atheros and Qualcomm-Atheros chipsets are also the most common WiFi chipsets with open-source drivers to find in routers and access points, so those drivers get QA and widespread testing in both client and AP roles.

Intel WiFi is in a lower tier of support, where you can't count on having access to the full capabilities of the hardware (eg. apparently power management hasn't been working for quite some time, and AP mode is only available on 2.4GHz). But at least Intel WiFi drivers are open-source, so it's clearly a better choice than Broadcom.

gregwebs
Perfect software-hardware interaction, but the build quality is horrible. My laptop has a hard shut down once a week presumably because something power-related is loose. The screen also gets scratched against the base when closed.
ashwanidausodia
I am using dell xps 13. Although specs are nowhere near to your ideal specs but it gets the job done. Arch Linux runs buttery smooth on it.
majewsky
To be fair, Arch Linux probably runs buttery smooth on a potato (given the right choice of DE), so that's not much of a statement. :)
agorabinary
These specs seem like overkill to me for some simple development work
JohnBooty
I didn't see where the original poster said "simple."

I have a laptop with similar specs and it's definitely taxed when running big monolithic projects and (particularly) their big test suites.

Also, when buying a laptop, most people like to buy something that can last at least a few years into the future...

firat
Ask HN: Vim or Emacs?
g00gler
I was thinking of doing a kickstarter for a single run of aluminum laptops when I need a new machine.

It bugs the hell out of me that I can't buy a non-apple metal computer.

Godel_unicode
Other than from Dell, System76, Asus, or HP you mean?

Edit: forgot Razer sells aluminum laptops as well

g00gler
Razer looks like exactly what I was looking for, I guess I could settle for a 14" screen. TBH I forgot about them.

I didn't see any Dell, System76, Asus or HP laptops that were all metal and on par with a MacBook, only an Asus netbook.

sliken
Lenovo 710s is aluminum + magnesium.
gntech
Since you are looking for high powered quad core, may I suggest Oryx Pro by system76. https://system76.com/laptops/oryx
ProAm
This is my next laptop. Spec'd well, reasonably priced, good size.... Wish it bad a longer battery but it will be docked most the time clams-shelled to my external monitors.
jaxbot
Chromebook plus Mosh over to a highly specced desktop. Best bang for your buck if you can guarantee a fast, stable connection.
planteen
Asus ZenBook is nice
aries1980
4-core, as OP requested?
ohpauleez
The Zenbook line has dual and quad core machines, high-resolution screens, up to 16Gb of RAM, aluminum bodies, the ports you want, a great touchpad (and often touch screen), and an NVMe SSD. It's wonderfully supported by recent Linux releases (4.4 and up).

I switched from a MBP to a Zenbook about seven months ago, running Ubuntu 16.04, without any issues.

This is the model I have: https://www.asus.com/us/Notebooks/ASUS-ZenBook-Pro-UX501VW/

aries1980
Didn't know they ship them with i7 hq CPUs, thanks!
cdevs
Asus i5, ubuntu, mainly for a CD-ROM and every port Apple has taken away - you know like Ethernet. Bestbuy 350 on sale for 200 at some point.
sandGorgon
you cannot use the MacBook because you need a dual drive setup.

The only laptop that fits everything is the XPS 15 - you can have a hdd +ssd and go upto 32gb ram.

you might find the precision 5510 (same as xps 15,with a cheaper graphics card) to be better.

Another option is the Lenovo p50... but its not very common. But a great machine.

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vladimir-y
Is there a problem to get any decently built laptop and put Linux on top of it in your own? You can argue that it's better to get laptop with Linux pre installed, but I don't 100% agree since Linux means freedom in choosing stuff you need, so it's better to install distributive you like than default Ubuntu. Also don't count much on the customer support when it comes to the Linux laptops, it's common for Linux user to handle possible issues independently. So I don't see a strong reason to get laptop with pre installed Linux limiting yourself in other terms, such as accepting worse hardware and build quality (since there are not a lot of Linux based laptops on the market, and so you won't have many choices, so don't even compare for example system76 vs hp x360) and limiting yourself by Ubuntu distributive.
ProAm
If you want to buy a laptop that almost certain to work out of the gates yes the OPs question is perfectly valid. Can you take anylap top and get it to work? Of course, its just a matter of how much time you want to invest, vs investing that time in actually developing. Both is time spent well, however only 1 will make you money.
vladimir-y
It's one time setup, I believe it's better to not limit youself in laptop choices for developers since it's your main tool, a tool that makes money for you. I'm for example would not be comfortable working on daily basis using heavy/creaky/noisy laptop which has a bad keyboard, bad screen, etc.
sirspudd
Unfortunately it still feels cheaper to purchase a Windows laptop, and simply scrape Windows off its boot.

I object to being gouged for opting to run a certain system. The amount of invested time required to get modern Linux up on a non-psychotic (psycho like the Yoga 910) is a solid investment to the required baseline of competence required to be a Linux dev.

grogenaut
Once upon a time dell would let you return the OEM CD if you weren't going to use windows. I wonder if they still do that. They could invalidate the OEM key to windows, not sure if microsoft would care to implement that and give dell the money back.
patrik123
In my opinion system76.com does the best Linux laptops.
nfoz
Laptops are extremely subjective, so it's an awkward question.

If your primary concern is Linux support, then look to the places where you can buy Linux laptops:

- https://system76.com

- https://puri.sm/

- Dell "Developer Edition": http://www.dell.com/learn/us/en/555/campaigns/xps-linux-lapt...

- others??

For me, the primary metrics are: excellent keyboard, touchpad WITH buttons (limited options nowadays), portable size/weight. It sounds like you're more concerned with performance, so you probably need to be in the 14"+ category.

kimburgess
The purism devices look fantastic. Does anyone have one and can recommend / !recommend them?
aries1980
5th generation Intel CPUs at the time when 7th generation is already 6 months old is not for me.

Also the OP asked for 4 cores, the U-range has just 2.

dogma1138
They are overpriced, falsely marketed and are severely outdated.
berkeleynerd
I really like my Librem 13" ... it's very hard to find a system approaching modern that runs flawlessly with no closed firmware required. Coreboot is available for those willing to take on a fairly serious hack but it's not shipping yet from what I can tell. I honestly don't think they deserve the hate I see leveled at them. I needed a replacement and they provided it no questions asked.
dogma1138
No hate, they just are marketed falsely and in all honesty they aren't any more secure than any other device as long as you wipe it.

You can install coreboot on other machines, there will still be closed source microcode in the CPU and closed firmware in some of the controllers.

And the hardware is simply out of date, you can get a dell xps 13 with more modern hardware for the same price and in essence the same level of assureance.

If you are worried about state level actors exploiting bugs or backdoors in your hardware Librem isn't what is going to stop them.

sliken
Depends on what exactly bugs you about the macbook pro?

If you want want somewhat less quality and half the price or so I'd look at the lenovo 710s.

Aluminum+magnesium chassis, large touchpad, iris 540 graphics, i7, and 1080P matte display. Some might consider 1080P a big downgrade, but for a small 13.3" display I think it's quite reasonable.

i7-6560U, iris 540, 16GB ram, 512GB ssd = $1,199.99 (free shipping).

The most comparable macbook pro is the base, dual core i7 upgrade, 16GB upgrade, and 512GB upgrade = $2,199. That's without the dongles you need.

With the 710s you can drive a TV/projector with HDMI, read a SD card, charge a phone with a normal usb cable, etc. No fancy display on the keyboard and no soft keys to replace esc.

sirspudd
Anandtech run a periodical series of articles of the best laptops available at present:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9798/best-laptops

as long as you run a modern distro, and they are intel throughout, it should be relatively painless. Of course you have to do a little more background checking once you settle on a machine you intend to buy, much like the Lenovo Yoga 910/710 explicitly disabling ahci disk access and hence requiring a time sink (on your part) in order to get that resolved.

I intend to grab either an XPS, a Precision or a Lenovo t560. The x1 carbon is a very nice machine that most of my buddies (Linux people) gravitate too, but I purchased one which appeared to have a CPU fault and would start exhibiting visual artifacts (and instability) at 50 degrees Celsius, which does not require much of a workload. Pegging the fan helped to a limited extent, but chrome finds ways to skirt that.

I personally avoid discrete GPUs; Intel is good enough, I like running gnome on wayland (today) and having card switching work correctly is both a time sink and a maintenance burden best reserved for the devouted

virtualwhys
Dell Precision: up to 64GB ram, 3 X SSD, top of the line mobile CPU/GPU, etc. For lightweight MBP-like offering check out the 15" model[1]

Have been running Precisions for 7 years now on stripped down Fedora (minimal install + tiling window manager and VirtualBox for Windows/Mac) and will likely continue to do so for many years to come ;-)

[1] http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m5510-workstatio...

vladimir-y
Dell Precisions have always been decently made, heavy and solid laptops, but now they got XPS models chassis...
virtualwhys
Right, still on an M4700 here. Was going to bite the bullet on the 5510 for Dell's 35% off sale, but held off due to:

1) CPU clock speeds having stagnated

2) unsure about thermal issues with the ultra thin chassis

3) will it significantly outperform existing setup?

Ideally there will be 6-core mobile processors landing in the next year or so, but likely will have to wait until 2019+

Would be nice to shed some weight with 5510 though, and the power adapter would actually work on planes to boot (180W adapter draws too much).

majewsky
What makes you think Intel will do 6-core mobile processors anytime soon? Their core count has been pretty constant at least since the introduction of the Core i3/i5/i7 brands.
Godel_unicode
They're still well made and solid, simply no longer heavy.
alexeiz
Dell Precision can also be configured to have Ubuntu installed instead of Windows which not only saves a few bucks but also guarantees that the machine will come with the right Linux drivers.
ptio
I've got a 4th Gen Thinkpad X1 Carbon with Debian Testing. No issues.
OxO4
As a current Apple user with similar needs, I've been looking into alternatives myself. The Lenovo ThinkPad P50 [1] is looking great. Can be configured with a Xeon quad-core CPU, up to 64GB of ECC (!) RAM, 2 x 1TB PCIe-NVMe SSD and an NVIDIA Quadro M2000M (performance similar to a GTX 960M or 950M [2]). I've been considering to get a Xeon/64GB non-ECC RAM/512GB PCIe-NVMe SSD/Quadro M2000M configuration myself for around $2,600 (before taxes), which is much cheaper than Apple's offerings.

The Dell Inspiron 7510 can be specced similarly [3] and looks also interesting but apparently throttles the GPU under load [4], which is a huge no-go for me (I had a laptop that throttled under load at some point and it was a pain).

[1] http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/p-series/p50/

[2] http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-Quadro-M2000M.151581.0.h...

[3] http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m7510-workstatio...

[4] http://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-Precision-7510-4K-IGZO-Mob...

jrz53
You can find a code for Lenovo employee discounts if you Google around.
aries1980
Can you use Quadros in the laptop that has no dedicated output port for it? I am having a hard time to put my GTX 850m in use under Linux, because I can't disable the Intel GPU in the BIOS.
SteveNuts
I love my System76 Lemur.

Similar Macbook would have been $800 more, and I was able to configure it with 32GB Memory (which Macs still can't do).

I can run a full stack of services in VMs without breaking a sweat, it's perfect for me.

jakewins
Swapped from MBP Retina to the 2017 Lenovo X1 Carbon about six months ago, could not be happier.

It weights massively less than the Retina did, looks slick as hell, got great specs, half the price of a similarly specced MBP and good battery time. Linux Mint runs without a hitch on the hardware.

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-ca...

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sandGorgon
i looked at the carbon when i was purchasing a xps 13. i saw that the xps was much cheaper for the specs i wanted - i7 + QHD display.

both are very cool looking... but the recent lenovo spyware and the fact that thinkpads still have hardware whitelists turned me off.

plus i got the 950 pro ssd on my xps 13 which is where the performance comes from... not the cpu or ram anymore.

aorth
Looks nice. I'm annoyed that you can't get a 2560x1440 screen for less than $1850 (the highest model), and all the lower models come with touch screens, which I don't want.
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sunnyps
I recently decided not to purchase expensive laptops any more. It's cheaper to buy a good cheap laptop and a workstation than it is to buy a top of the line laptop.

I bought a Dell Chromebook 13 after trying one out for a few days. I'll be upgrading the SSD and installing Crouton (with Ubuntu/Debian) to run along side ChromeOS. The benefit of this over installing a Linux distro by itself is that ChromeOS has the right drivers for the hardware. As a result it can do certain things like hardware video decoding which are poorly supported on Linux.

Pros:

- Cheap (~550 USD with promotions)

- Core i3 + 8GB RAM (powerful enough for me)

- Upgradable SSD

- Excellent glass touchpad and keyboard

- Matte 13.3 inch 1080p IPS display

- 12+ hours battery life

- Good build quality / materials (carbon fiber + magnesium alloy)

- ChromeOS :-)

Cons:

- Max display brightness is under 300 nits (somewhat countered by matte display)

- Default resolution of 1080p is too high for such a small screen, a smaller scaled resolution (~720p) works better

- Lower spec integrated graphics (HD 5500 not Iris Pro)

- Lack of HiDPI screen

- Proprietary charger

- No USB-C, no display port (HDMI only), single USB 3.0 port (other port is USB 2.0 only)

gempir
If only they sold those outside the US and Canada. In Germany the only Chromebooks you can buy are from Acer. I dislike Acer as a brand so I won't be buying one. I would buy a Dell one in a heartbeat :/
Godel_unicode
Out of curiosity, what would you use a stronger graphics card for on a Chromebook? I thought all the video codec acceleration was on the CPU. Do you use a lot of WebGL?
sunnyps
Gaming on Linux, maybe? A lot of games in my Steam library are Linux compatible.

Re: video decode acceleration, ChromeOS on Broadwell should support GPU accelerated h264/VP8 decode and hardware assisted h265/VP9 decode. (I might be completely misinformed about this though.) I'm not really concerned about the GPU performance with regard to video decode.

dogma1138
Can you actually use the gpu properly through curton?
sunnyps
There are two modes for X11 under Crouton: GPU accelerated output (called "xorg" mode) and unaccelerated output to a chrome window (called "xiwi" mode). Both seem to work fine based on my limited testing with Gnome on Debian Sid.
sliken
ChromeOS is getting android compatibility, so you can run android games.

It's not particularly hard to get ubuntu working on most chromebooks.

Not to mention even random web games (like slither.io) do better with a decent gpu, especially if your driving a monitor with more than 1080P.

BoorishBears
If you think 1080p is too much for 13 inches try 4K at 13 inches, nothing works right.
sunnyps
I think something like 3200 x 1800 (HP Chromebook 13) or 2560 x 1700 (Pixel) at 2x scale works better.
BoorishBears
2x scale is perfect but only OS X gets it right. Windows breaks dragging Windows between average DPI screens and HiDpi screens, Gnome does too except if you use Xrandr to halve your resolution (and patch it to disable the bicubic filter), but then text is rendered at half resolution and it shows. OSX renders almost everything at half resolution, but renders text and GUI elements at full resolution at 2x scale giving the best of both worlds