Ask HN: Will you really move away from Apple hardware?

55 points by rankam ↗ HN
Just as a thought experiment for current Apple users - if you joined a new company and were offered a new MacBook Pro (the most recently showcased) or a new [NON-APPLE] laptop, would you choose the [NON-APPLE] laptop? I ask because I've heard many say they're looking for hardware to run elementary OS on, which is mimicking the mac OS UI (I don't mean to disparage elementary OS - I think their work is fantastic!). If you're not paying the bill, will you really move away from Apple?

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Already have ;)
If you don't mind me asking, which linux distro did you go with for the switch?
Linux Mint for the desktop and laptop here. Love it. Ubuntu for servers and Elemental for an older Chromebook.
Full disclosure: I switched to Ubuntu on my 2009 MacBook Pro in 2012 or so. That's why I included a winky face in the original reply ;)

But since then I've found myself on Arch Linux on a ThinkPad X220. I love Arch! Default packages configurations are great. Although it requires some significant knowledge of the system to install & maintain, it's very stable and documentation is great. I find it to be much more stable than Ubuntu, in the sense that if something goes unexpectedly, there's going to be detailed documentation about what exactly is going on. With Ubuntu, the changes in the underpinnings of the system are enshrouded in a certain amount of mystery outside of the developer circle.

Upgrading by a major version means that your whole system might switch, for example, from upstart to systemd. This is something you will likely find out through trial and error when something does wrong. Whereas in Arch, everything is transparent.

I'm using Gnome 3, which has matured quite a bit and is very nice with the touch screen.

As soon as something better comes along, then sure :)
Same here, for now will stick with my 13 inch 2015 mbp -- I was hoping for more ram and an actual GPU but that went south.

Might move to a Razer Blade on windows as hackintosh on the 1060 isn't an option right now. -- I have high hopes for Windows' Linux Subsystem.

I've had a Macbook Pro for the last... 4 years. Two different models. I've also had a lot of success Hackintoshing my desktop and have used it without issue for the last 2 years.

I'll be hackintoshing a laptop this time around.

Not yet, the new Macbook Pro meets all my needs (assuming I can stand the keyboard)
I did and I am happy that I have, I prefer the linux machines, though to be honest it does not matter all that much. The terminal is great (on both system) and most of what I do I can do from within my IDE (IntelliJ) which also runs great on both systems.

I don't use computers a lot apart from when I am working, and for the leisurely things I do it does not matter which OS I am using, as everything runs in a browser nowadays. https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/mac_pc.png

I hadn't seen that xkcd yet, but how absolutely true :)
I have a 2009 MBP that I use at home. Still does a great job for what I need and I'll do some iOS development on it.

Newer computer is a Lenovo Flex 3 with Win 10 I got for under $500. I've been on a MB/MBP for almost 10 years now at various jobs. If I really need a MBP I use that. I don't see myself buying any more apple products though (including phones/ipads).

No.

Still happy with my iMac and Macbook Pro. Having 14+ years of OS experience and familiarity, the technical updates or lack thereof aren't enough of a driver to abandon the former.

If I were offered a Thinkpad instead of a Macbook Pro, I'd go with the Thinkpad.
same. I use an old IBM thinkpad running ubuntu for most of my development now, and leave my macbook at home for entertainment.
Ask for a Thinkpad at work instead of a MacBook and you'll be at a 67% chance of getting one with a TN screen. n=1
No, and perhaps that is why I and many others continue to be somewhat disquieted with Apple's stewardship of its Mac platform: It would take much more to make me switch. Apple would have to treat its professional users much worse than they do today.

The corollary to this being, it could get much worse. The best parallel I can draw, if you'll permit a terrible political analogy, might be idealistic Bernie supporters slowly realizing they're going to end up with a choice between Clinton and Trump.

That's a bad analogy I discovered that I can write in Bernie and have a solid conscience knowing I didn't choose the corrupt politician, the rapist, the hippie Bernie wannabe who has no clue about actually running anything in government, or the always seemingly-high libertarian. - I really wanted to like Jill Stein and vote for but couldn't...I voted democrat for all other tickets in hopes that they were more progressive in general.

As for the new mac stuff I've never been a mac fan, not a win fan either.. I'd much rather have my arch linux builds any day, but I'm not a hardcore gamer or graphic designer either. I'm just a laravel / elixir developer. But I do feel like Apple's lost their way there's just too much negative 'mojo' in the air, they need to pivot and embrace the hard core techies who used to love them, or they'll become irrelevant and it'll be like the 90's again.

Google and microsoft have both had pretty exciting launches this year, there's lots of amazing tech going on in the world today, but when the majority of the stories are negative that can have an effect maybe not today or this quarter, but down the line in 2018 for example.

Thinking about Hackintosh-ing. Can take or leave the hardware for the most part (especially on desktop, but they do still have the best trackpad), but there's nothing better than macOS for what I want in my dev environment.
Hackintosh-ing sounds fantastic, but I've read so many horror stories about upgrades that it frightens me
Same here. I've done it a few times as a dual-boot with my desktop and had issues that caused me to uninstall after a month or two. I think the trick is going to be buying hardware that's 100% compatible from one of the lists people have put together.

I've had the same problem with every Linux distro I've tried, but I dumped them due to UX jank, not compatibility problems.

This is also why I've messed with hackintosh in dual boot or old machines but never for too long. To get one that's stable, you need to build a machine with 100% compatible parts. That's not terribly difficult but I don't usually build machines just for running something like a hackintosh.

When I go to build a new desktop workstation every 5 years or so, I want to pick the components based off bang for the buck, not just compatibility with hackintosh installations. And if I really need MacOS to run something work-related, I'm not gonna count on a hobbyist project like that to do it. I'm gonna get work to pay for Apple hardware or take it out of whatever freelance budget I have.

I guess if I had both the budget to build a second workstation for MacOS stuff and a strong desire to run non-employment-related MacOS-only software, I might just build a 100% compatible hackintosh but as it stands, there's nothing I really absolutely need that only runs on MacOS so instead I just use my Windows desktop workstation for just about everything, my Asus notebook for mobile DJ/VJ gigs, and the ancient MBP I got for free a while back for the rare occasion that I want to screw around with something that only runs on MacOS.

Been a Mac fanatic since the early Fat Mac days. Loved the earlier MBPs, Retina MBP 13, and the Airs.

Sadly though. They've fallen too far behind. It's like Microft and Apple flipped. Win10 is fast, amazingly stable, and I can run all my monitors and tools on super fast machines. Even just picked up a Razor laptop running Mint and. Chromebook running Elemental.

Thought about trying the hackintosh but too much trouble.

I think if you forget to provide great hardware and tools for power developers at the front end of our cycle, you fall behind and fail to innovate / have a good support community in short order.

As much as I like Tim Cook and his values, he really reminds me of the same fit as Ballmer. Not as much of a Dick though :)

Apple really needs another visionary like Jobs, or Satya.

Makes me sad.

Yes was in the market to buy a refreshed mac pro for my desktop. I'm not paying 2013 prices for 2013 hardware, so just built a sick Linux deep learning rig instead for the same price.
btw, tried today elementary on a macbook -- installation and drivers were fine -- visual studio code would not launch so I gave up for now -- will try over the weekend probably.

It seems like a polished OS, some shortcuts need tuning but might work.

It makes me curious - do we (mac users) like our hardware, do we like our UI, do we like a combo of both or is it something else? Regardless, cool to hear you got elementary running on a mac!
I like that in the past, it's been rock solid stable and I have had to perform very little IT support to keep it so. Not so stable these days, which is where a lot of my issues come from.

Here's my primary reasons for using OSX / Mac's all these years:

-- A unix variant shell underneath - so I can do all my work fast, relatively compatible with my linux servers in the cloud, and run things like MySQL, Mongo, Node, etc... locally. Definitely a keyboard guy as well. Now that Windows has Bash/Canonical -- I suspect this will be a game changer.

-- Terminal and Iterm -- Actually - this is probably the major reason. I run lots of windows, and lots of scripting therein. Conemu / Putty for Windows isn't bad. Linux has a few not so bad terminal clients, but nothing touches Iterm. Come to think of it - if I had iTerm on my Win10 machine, with bash for scripting, and a great ssh command line client - I'd have no issues making it my daily driver.

-- Sublime Text. -- But I've been back using Vim and Emacs more and more.

-- Something about Windows... they seem to have no concern for interrupting what you're doing and popping up a window that just blocks everything. It's like a 'rude' operating system. Mac's just don't seem to do that.

-- Actually the Apps that have kept me on a Mac: iTerm, Panic Transmit, Sublime Text, and Bash/Zsh.

What I really want in a Mac:

GTX 1080's or NVidia Titan X's, or something that can actually do GPU work relatively fast (Machine learning is eating the world), and drive multiple 4k monitors. 32+G of RAM.

Happy to give up some battery life and weight to do these.

For work I've a 2013 MBP running Yosemite and you'll have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers!

(Would be really nice if those update nags would fuck off, though)

For me it doesn't seem like there's really any difference between different laptops. I'm on a 15" MacBook Pro at the moment because I needed a Mac to work on an iOS project, but now I use it to code financial stuff.

Everything I do is on remote connections of one sort or another, and OSX has a simple way to swap out one virtual desktop with another. Everything that requires real computing power I do on a cloud, and everything else I think would work fine on any reasonable machine.

I'm sure a windows/linux system could do the same as my MBP, and in terms of work it wouldn't really matter as we use windows and linux together. I think more or less any laptop in the price range would be able to drive multiple screens, and it's really just a question of minor things like whether keyboard/trackpad feels nice.

So it is a bit of a hair thin decision. If this whole no-ESC no-Fkey thing seems to go badly for other devs, I won't get another Mac. I need F keys to step through a debug, and it's annoying to change key bindings.

I'll stick with my current MacBook Pro until a change is much more appealing, and I've already started discussions with people on what a great Linux laptop solution looks like.
I never really bought into this--always was a windows person. Of course, didn't do development on windows--I used cygwin first, and then when vagrant became mature, used vagrant + virtualbox.

Can't recommend that highly enough! Way better than cygwin, plus offers a level of isolation you can't get on the mac unless you use something like vagrant also.

I don't need more than a text editor, a browser and a commandline to do web development. So I would be fine with just Linux if that's all I ever did.

To do anything at all with iOS I need a Mac. So I expect that I will always have one around as long as iOS is a thing for me.

Windows is my favorite desktop and it is the best performer in my opinion. I absolutely need it to do work for most clients. Windows is the one that I will probably never be able switch away from completely.

I bought a Dell XPS 13 the day after the announcement.

As shipped, it had flaky wifi and the audio clipped both through the speakers and headphones.

Thinking of trying another brand after I get my refund.

I'm in love with my razer blade stealth. Same form factor, lower price, aluminum unibody, great screen, 7500U standard. Bezels are on the large size though.
What's the battery life like on it? I can't find documented battery life anywhere.
I'm pretty happy with Debian on my ASUS ZenBook UX305FA (for the past week). Refurbished one for ~$500.

Everything more-or-less "just worked" after installing.

I shipped mine back and bought a x250 back in the day.

I'm unsure whether DELL has fixed the XPS 13 issues in the latest iterations, but reading long term reviews in hardware forums is rather discouraging.

I bought a pixel, coming in a week or so. Can't wait. Glad to be able to listen to music and charge my phone at the same time, glad to ditch itunes and its increasingly aggressive efforts to ruin my music listening experience, etc.

Also just had my company buy me a new macbook pro because I need it, but didn't buy my own (which I'd usually prefer) because I'm keeping my options open.

No. I actually really like Apple hardware, and can usually deal with the limitations. I was hoping Apple would offer a USB-A port and 2TB of storage on the 13" MacBook Pro, but I still ordered one without. The graphics and memory limitations don't bother me much.

However, I really keep hoping someone comes out with a competing operating system and ecosystem similar to Mac OS, but I haven't found anything that compares. Elementary is the closest I've seen from the open source world, but it needs a LOT more features and polish. I like Mac OS, but the quality issues and general product direction in the past few years have me itching to be able to replace it if I need to.

For my personal devices, my plan is to eke out my mid-2010 MBP until such time as the next wave of laptops are released, and hope they support a developer's workflow more appropriately.

For work: i work in an OS-agnostic kind of world.

I won't, because I never purchased any Apple products.