It might be fun and interesting. But for most persons it has not a good salary and really bad working hours. So it depends on what you are looking for.
I think about law school or an MBA at least once a week.
The opportunity cost is extremely high though. It's pretty hard leaving six figures of income in a low cost of living (and the grass is always greener I'm sure).
Me too. My kid is now 2 1/2. I'll stick to work until April. Then I'll quit and do something else. I also want to get more involved into business, so I'll enter business school. Saved me a good amount of money!
One thing that is important to me is that we have quite low costs of living. And I mean really low costs. No expensive car to maintain, no fancy hobbies. So this works... Don't know about your situation though but I learned that you can cut back tremendously if you must.
Only so much. Things like rent and medical insurance are impossible to avoid, and rent is highly dependent on your location, which is tied to your job. You could get cheaper rent by moving to rural Wyoming, but you're not going to find a tech job there. If you can work remotely, however, or you have your own work-at-home business, this does give you the freedom to seek out lower CoL locations. But medical insurance is still a big factor, esp. when you have a family.
I'd say that these days, housing is easily the #1 cost for most Americans, and in terms of the fraction of a person's income, it's really ballooned from 20 years ago.
Did the MBA thing, didn't manage to land an MBA job so I'm back in tech, six figures poorer. It's not a slam dunk by any means, and yes the opportunity cost stings as much as the sticker price.
A lot of companies support their employees getting an MBA while they still work. It takes a little longer, and it pretty much devours your life while you do it, and you usually have to keep at least a B+ for the company to support you, but it's doable.
I know a guy who did this at UC Berkeley. Took him a while to get an "MBA-ish" job afterwards but it seems to have worked, and anyway he got as far as the MBA itself without quitting his job.
I was referring to the capital intensive nature of the business. My fairly lucrative programming career is what keeps my farm operating. Being able to leave programming to farm is a long way off for me yet.
If you have family willing to hand down the business or already independently wealthy, then maybe leaving programming to farm is more realistic.
I have noticed that the agriculture market has seemed to settle on an average of about 2-3% ROI. Meaning, for every $1 you invest in your farm business, you can expect to get 2-3¢ back each year profit-wise. On average. Some years you will make more, some years you will pay to get rid of your product. Right now is closer to the latter of those two.
If you come to farming with $2-3M cash in hand, you will typically be in pretty good shape (~$60K average yearly income based on the above assumptions), assuming you have figured out the management aspects. But most don't have $3M lying around doing nothing, and that's the real challenge. The way forward seems to be to hold another job (programming in my case), and take all you can from that job and put it into the farming business until you have built up enough capital that the farm becomes self-sustaining.
It's a long road, but hopefully worth it. As they say, if it were easy, everyone would be doing it.
I've considered it a couple of times.
Being a chef or someone researching climate change are the two things that I've considered. I have no background in either (I can cook up a decent meal but nothing impressive) and the thought of having to start from scratch bothers me a lot.
> someone researching climate change are the two things that I've considered. I have no background in either
Don't worry. In case of so-called 'climate science' the most important is whether your results are 'in line with', your background and the way you obtained these results are secondary.
what did you try to make it happen? No offense, but I know a lot of talented musicians that don't bring it to anything because they only 'business'-like thing they do is to upload their stuff on youtube/soundcloud....
I'm on the same boat. Music is my main passion, IT is my second passion.
I simply had to start working with IT. My parents were unemployed at the time and things were rough. My first job offered good pay and allowed us to survive the storm.
After my parents got re-employed, I continued working and advanced my career. With the money I bought a car (my other passion), built a home studio, and now I'm rebuilding the whole house.
I guess I became too attached to having financial security and the nice things it brings.
But I don't plan on letting my main passion die, I still have a rehearsal scheduled today after work!
I've been working for almost 2 decades and have recently rearranged life to study part-time. A combination of luck and good timing let it happen. It's done wonderful things for me in all aspects of my life, professionally and personally, and is opening new doors.
I took a year off in my 20's for spiritual pursuits and volunteer work. Best thing I ever did, it wasn't well planned and on a shoestring. If I could do over I would have done the finances differently. I cam back to software, but with a much different outlook and world view.
Anything involving pragmatic problem solving. Keep the mind occupied with varied tasks and satisfied by frequently delivering solutions. Skip the intricacies and subtleties of dealing with software.
There are so many people performing repetitive tasks who could benefit greatly from relatively small optimizations. I would be able to directly witness the impact of my work and make a difference on a personal level. It's hard to do this in software because the landscape changes so quickly.
It would also be super fun to practice apprentice-style learning in multiple fields and document/share everything.
Mechanical Engineering -- I work through a different mechanics textbook once a year, or so, for fun. I think I enjoy the theory of how the physical world works more than the practice, which keeps me where I am. :)
I sort of went the other direction. Went to school for mechanical engineering, near the end of it I realized that software development was kind of fun too. As much fun as it is to work with free body diagrams and simulate control systems in Matlab (SimuLink), the development and iteration cycle with physical product is a lot longer, and you end up spending months designing eg a ball bearing. On the other hand, with software, you can get a lot further a lot faster, and it becomes a constant cycle of near-instant gratification.
I believe a lot of us here on HN would consider leaving programming for doing business. A lot (including myself) already did.
Programming being very often about solving business needs, sometime in your career, you might be in a position to realize that it could make sense to go higher up the chain and build a company.
IMHO, that will depend on the type of business, but getting basic understanding of sales (like, actual deal closing), marketing, and hiring are crucial no matter what.
Even if you plan to bring co-founders on board, understanding the basics of what they do goes a long way establishing trust.
Another thing, which is not a skill, is to understand that techcrunch is not a fair representation of the tech world (& neither is HN), and that building a business is not about making the frontpage, it is about bringing solutions to problems so painful that people are willing to pay you for it.
If it didn't require such a huge time commitment I'd consider becoming a PA or MD, but once you already have a family and bills it's practically impossible to get through the required schooling.
Law has always interested me. Unfortunately the cover charge is such that I would only be willing to give it a go in the event of an equity lottery win or something similar.
Another thing I've been toying with is prop trading. It's not entirely separate from programming, but the industry is pretty isolated in terms of expertise so it might be considered separate.
I'd like to do something that does not involve looking at screens all the time. As it is, I'm stuck with my one skill that's highly valued until I can finish paying off my loans.
as a hobbyist, I don't think I would ever do anything else.
as an employee/employer, become a technician. everybody needs repair work, and very few can call the result maintainable and sustainable. focusing on residential areas helps, too.
If I could make a much money as I do now, I still don't think I'd choose something else. If I did it would probably be, in order:
- Robotics (more on the hardware side)
- Woodworking
- Custom motorcycle/classic car building and restoration
The common theme for me is the creative problem solving, building things in general, and attention to detail/craftsmanship specifically that maintain my attention. As it is those are all hobbies of mine, so I still get to dabble while making a good living doing another thing I really love.
A few years ago, I briefly considered going back to school, getting a degree in Exercise & Sports Science, and getting into athletic training. But in the end, I could never quite convince myself to do it, and the moment passed. I also flirted with the idea of becoming a private detective a couple of times in my life. I actually still find that idea somewhat interesting, but I doubt I'd ever make the money doing that, that I make in software. And here in NC the training requirements to become licensed are somewhat onerous, so I doubt I'll ever pursue it.
Private investigators with a good grasp of IT are very rare and white collar crimes, etc are rife. As for the training, much of it is common sense and not above the levels required to get a degree in any other field.
as for the training, much of it is common sense and not above the levels required to get a degree in any other field
Arguably true, but at my age, it's more effort than I'd be willing to put in at this point. Had I done it when I was younger, it might have been a good thing, but I think the time for that has passed.
Of course I could always move to a state that doesn't even require a license to be a PI. There are a couple of them out there.
Not sure about your location, but in Australia there are fairly accessible courses to help people get into personal training. I imagine that falls short of full, accredited athletic training.
However, could you not get some lower-level qualification and set yourself up doing training 1-2 sessions a week? Gives you something different on the side without needing to make a full income or quit what you already know.
Yes, that was / is an option. I actually did buy a bunch of books on the topic (beyond ones I already had in my collection for my own use), and bought a certification course training manual for a personal trainer certification. But I guess inertia turned out to be too powerful a factor to get around. I was making good money in tech, and I do actually enjoy it, and in the end the motivation to truly step away was never strong enough.
Thought about it, and then tried it. I followed my dream and started a creative project that had been dogging me for a long time. EVERYBODY wanted me to do it. Family, friends, people on the street with whom I discussed it. I expected it to be a big moneymaker. And it didn't work out. Not only that, but it became very clear that it was a really poor fit for me on a fundamental level.
I'm glad for the experience, though.
Going back to programming, here's what I figured out:
- I was working on stuff I didn't enjoy, with people I didn't particularly care about.
- I was taking on new work projects without any particular selection criteria.
- I wasn't thinking about the kinds of work that got me excited about programming and chasing it down.
So I recently nailed the first two back into place. I'm working closer to my values system rather than paychecks. In exchange, I'm just saving more money so I have more freedom.
Anyway, burnout is real. I thought I was done for sure and that my interest in programming and computers was a thing of the past. But that was just the burnout talking.
It helped to keep a journal during this time. Not a chronicle, but a thought-dump process in which I asked if my life was actually improving daily. That made it pretty quick to pinpoint my frustrations, as you can only write about the same pains a few times before you start to really zoom in on the causes and potential solutions.
This speaks to me. Career curation; making sure it means something. Burnouts can sometimes afford to be selective in their work. Illness is very expensive.
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[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 280 ms ] threadSo, restaurant health & safety inspector ?
The opportunity cost is extremely high though. It's pretty hard leaving six figures of income in a low cost of living (and the grass is always greener I'm sure).
I left a decent paying job to attend grad school and so far its been rewarding.
I'd say that these days, housing is easily the #1 cost for most Americans, and in terms of the fraction of a person's income, it's really ballooned from 20 years ago.
I know a guy who did this at UC Berkeley. Took him a while to get an "MBA-ish" job afterwards but it seems to have worked, and anyway he got as far as the MBA itself without quitting his job.
If you have family willing to hand down the business or already independently wealthy, then maybe leaving programming to farm is more realistic.
If you come to farming with $2-3M cash in hand, you will typically be in pretty good shape (~$60K average yearly income based on the above assumptions), assuming you have figured out the management aspects. But most don't have $3M lying around doing nothing, and that's the real challenge. The way forward seems to be to hold another job (programming in my case), and take all you can from that job and put it into the farming business until you have built up enough capital that the farm becomes self-sustaining.
It's a long road, but hopefully worth it. As they say, if it were easy, everyone would be doing it.
Don't worry. In case of so-called 'climate science' the most important is whether your results are 'in line with', your background and the way you obtained these results are secondary.
I simply had to start working with IT. My parents were unemployed at the time and things were rough. My first job offered good pay and allowed us to survive the storm.
After my parents got re-employed, I continued working and advanced my career. With the money I bought a car (my other passion), built a home studio, and now I'm rebuilding the whole house.
I guess I became too attached to having financial security and the nice things it brings.
But I don't plan on letting my main passion die, I still have a rehearsal scheduled today after work!
There are so many people performing repetitive tasks who could benefit greatly from relatively small optimizations. I would be able to directly witness the impact of my work and make a difference on a personal level. It's hard to do this in software because the landscape changes so quickly.
It would also be super fun to practice apprentice-style learning in multiple fields and document/share everything.
Programming being very often about solving business needs, sometime in your career, you might be in a position to realize that it could make sense to go higher up the chain and build a company.
Even if you plan to bring co-founders on board, understanding the basics of what they do goes a long way establishing trust.
Another thing, which is not a skill, is to understand that techcrunch is not a fair representation of the tech world (& neither is HN), and that building a business is not about making the frontpage, it is about bringing solutions to problems so painful that people are willing to pay you for it.
Another thing I've been toying with is prop trading. It's not entirely separate from programming, but the industry is pretty isolated in terms of expertise so it might be considered separate.
as an employee/employer, become a technician. everybody needs repair work, and very few can call the result maintainable and sustainable. focusing on residential areas helps, too.
- Robotics (more on the hardware side)
- Woodworking
- Custom motorcycle/classic car building and restoration
The common theme for me is the creative problem solving, building things in general, and attention to detail/craftsmanship specifically that maintain my attention. As it is those are all hobbies of mine, so I still get to dabble while making a good living doing another thing I really love.
Arguably true, but at my age, it's more effort than I'd be willing to put in at this point. Had I done it when I was younger, it might have been a good thing, but I think the time for that has passed.
Of course I could always move to a state that doesn't even require a license to be a PI. There are a couple of them out there.
However, could you not get some lower-level qualification and set yourself up doing training 1-2 sessions a week? Gives you something different on the side without needing to make a full income or quit what you already know.
I'm glad for the experience, though.
Going back to programming, here's what I figured out:
- I was working on stuff I didn't enjoy, with people I didn't particularly care about.
- I was taking on new work projects without any particular selection criteria.
- I wasn't thinking about the kinds of work that got me excited about programming and chasing it down.
So I recently nailed the first two back into place. I'm working closer to my values system rather than paychecks. In exchange, I'm just saving more money so I have more freedom.
Anyway, burnout is real. I thought I was done for sure and that my interest in programming and computers was a thing of the past. But that was just the burnout talking.
It helped to keep a journal during this time. Not a chronicle, but a thought-dump process in which I asked if my life was actually improving daily. That made it pretty quick to pinpoint my frustrations, as you can only write about the same pains a few times before you start to really zoom in on the causes and potential solutions.
Good luck to you, however it turns out.