HN Explorer

Ask HN: Could you please help me appreciate OS X more?

9 points by mscarborough ↗ HN
The Q&D version:

I'm a PHP and MySQL start up employee and run Gnome and Ubuntu at work and home for the last 6 years or so. Gnome is not pretty but its keybindings are consistent and simple. Debian package management is awesome for evaluating possible platform additions in a relatively native environment (lots of rpm boxes).

However, I bought a Macbook Pro to smooth over Linux's rough home-use areas like phone syncing and media use, and because it had been so highly recommended as a development platform (after you got used to it, which is way less time than I have used it).

It looked promising and the hardware is way better, but what am I missing? TextMate? That package is pretty great but don't grok it yet.

Thanks.

26 comments

[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 48.2 ms ] thread
mikebo
Run Windows for a few weeks ;)
minalecs
If windows ever got proper shell support and no windows power shell is nowhere close. Haven't used windows in over 3 years, and tried it recently. I think there filesystem and, there user permissions are not implemented well.
byoung2
If it's Vista, I'd agree, but Windows 7 is quite stellar.

The question that no one has been able to answer is: why is this Mac: http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MC372LL/A?mco=MTc0Njg1OD... selling for $1999

and this PC: http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/notebooks/inspiron-1564/pd.as... selling for $829

Both have a 15 inch display, 4GB RAM, 500GB HD, and an Intel Core i5 processor. Is having OS X worth more than double the price? If I go with the PC, for $1999 I could buy one for home (running Windows 7) and one for the office (running Ubuntu), and still have money for a printer and digital camera.

nanexcool
That Dell would make a sweet Hackintosh too. Looks like it can run Snow Leopard just fine.
_delirium
Not sure they'd be worth the large price difference, but there's some physical differences, like the unibody aluminum shell versus a plastic shell, and the Inspiron being 30% thicker at the thickest point.
redmar
If you really compare and read both specs/offers you'll see the following;

0. with the apple price you also buy esthetics. Not a real point for most anti apple guys. But i care if i use the device daily and talk to customers.

1. Please add $139.99 to the price for the upgrade from windows 7 home to ultimate. (Ultimate is the closest to the variant free Mac OS X) You could also add some $ for the iLife packages you get with the $1999 price.

2. dell screen should be (reading their own spec) 1280×720 versus MBP 1440x900 resolution.

3. dell CPU = 2.26 GHz vs MBP CPU = 2.53GHz

4. wireless-G on the dell vs wireless-N on the apple.

5. gigabit NIC for the apple vs 100mbit nic on the dell.

6. FW800 on the apple, AFAIK not on the dell.

7. shouldn't you add shipping costs for the dell?

As others already said:

8. aluminium casing vs plastic is a real difference if you compare them in reality. But not everybody cares the same way about this fact.

9. size between devices.

10. backlit keyboard and multitouch trackpad on the apple and not on the dell. I know that this is not important for a lot of people so that's why it's stated last.

But the dell wins on video card memory!

There's your answer.

byoung2
My point is that even if the Dell isn't an exact match feature for feature, I can get 2.5 of them for the same price as one Macbook Pro.

But just for fun, I picked a different Dell laptop, with a quad core i7, 1920x1080 15.6" screen, wireless N + WiMAX card, Windows 7 Ultimate, and it's still only $1584.

minalecs
It has bash but with a lot of good software and hardware makers support it. Use mac ports. There are a lot of reasons to stick with ubuntu, just depends on how well you know linux, and how much time you want to spend on things when they don't work on linux. Otherwise you just have to stick with what apple allows, and but be happy with the stability.
tjpick
I installed macports and emacs and kept using OSX like any other unix-like terminal. But in all honesty I prefer my freebsd box for dev over my osx laptop. Using standard unix foo on OSX isn't quite as clean as it is on bsd.

Except for the nice iphoto,safari,mail experiences where it's better to treat it like a nice GUI, they've done a pretty good job. If you're not happy with it, just go back to linux for dev and keep on with osx for your phone sync and media. Why make life hard for yourself?

daleharvey
heh I have never heard of gnomes keybindings being called "consistent", they dont even have a consistent shortcut to close the window, let alone things like preferences.

that being said I work on osx and ubuntu most days and much prefer ubuntu, the osx window manager is pretty funky and underpowered compared to gnomes and theres a lot of annoyances to get around, the dock thats impossible to get rid of, having to change keyboard layouts etc etc.

I have been using the mac close to a year now and still seem to be in a fairly similiar situation of not being comfortable with it, I am just waiting for someone to make some nice hardware thats fully supported with ubuntu.

_delirium
> I am just waiting for someone to make some nice hardware thats fully supported with ubuntu.

Is there anything in particular on the MacBooks themselves that Ubuntu doesn't support yet? The main thing I can think of is that Linux with a one-button mouse can be awkward.

Magneus
Linux has support for this. You can either bind a key or set up a "long press" to be right click.
sandGorgon
Go with Dell XPS or Precision laptops - they are usually fully supported by Dell and are quite good hardware (USB 3.0, 16GB max RAM)

Dell has incredible compatibility with Linux - somehow a lot of Dell specific utilities have ended up in Ubuntu (e.g. firmware-addon-dell for BIOS handling, dell-recovery for creating Dells specific recover ISO, etc.)

Dell's support pages have a lot of info on advanced processes (bios flashing, etc.) from Linux - http://linux.dell.com/projects.shtml

patrickk
You can get rid of the dock when you have the cursor away from it. Check your preferences to change this. I also aligned the dock to the left-hand side to make it less obtrusive.
jff
"Let me just grab the edge of this window OH HELLO THERE MISTER DOCK! Glad you decided to pop up right where I was clicking, now we can enjoy the wait while OpenOffice loads!"
Magneus
This can also be set by hitting, uh "option command D," I believe.
dalehurley
It is simple. People who have used Linux are not impressed as much by shinny things. I love my Mac becuase it is simple, clean and easy to use.

I have used Linux and it is more powerful and agile. Though Gnome is not as pretty and finished as OSX.

It is like Photoshop vs GIMP, InkScape vs Illustrator etc. The opensource software will get quite good, and in some ways better. Though it is not as polished.

It really comes down to what you can live without.

Dale

samratjp
Welcome to OSX. TextMate is a must (smultron ain't bad either). Get visor for terminal, it is a productivity boost.

And be sure to get quicksilver - it's acting without doing. Quicksilver + TextMate alone will save the day on OS X anyday. I promise.

shadowz
Quicksilver, with its magical plugins, will save you tones of time. I also have a mouse with many functions (hooray for Logitech), so I tend to bind those to Exposé.
mark_l_watson
Two comments: I think that the OmniGraffle and TexShop applications justify keeping an old Mac around. Excellent. Also, Macbooks run Ubuntu very well, especially models that are not brand new. I strongly recommend a dual boot OS X/Ubuntu setup: covers all the bases. That said, the Macbook could be a cheap used one, and spend your budget on a very fast i5 or i7 Windows/Ubuntu laptop.
dmlorenzetti
First off, I think if you're not getting it, then that's OK and you shouldn't worry too much. I made a similar few attempts to love Linux, but while I could get along OK, I never came to feel at home there.

A lot of it is, I think, personal preference. Part of what I like about OSX is just the general logic by which everything hangs together-- but I wouldn't try to convince somebody who likes the way Windows is set up that they're "wrong."

That said, here are a number of specific things I like about OSX.

As a developer, I really like the integration between the command line and the GUI. Examples: (1) Command "open <thing>" equivalent to double-clicking <thing>. (2) Commands pbcopy and pbpaste move information to and from system-wide pasteboard. (3) Drag-and-drop an icon onto the Terminal window fills in its path. (4) Standard copy and paste keyboard commands work in Terminal.

As a person who just has to use a lot of software, I like a number of other things. The wide standardization of key bindings across apps means very short learning curve to get competent, and no mental remapping when jumping between apps.

Furthermore, I'm required to run MS Office for work, and I like the fact that it's no more painful than on a PC.

I guess overall, I would say that OSX gives me the feeling of control that Linux promises, without the feeling of needing to become an expert in everything that Linux often imposed on me.

Magneus
If you already use Vim or Emacs, I don't think you'll be blown away by TextMate. If you're coming from a lesser editor, definitely jump on it.

If you're missing a package manager, there's MacPorts. I've heard that HomeBrew is a good alternative, but have no personal experience with it.

If you're missing GNOME Do, or any of those command launcher programs, I recommend Quicksilver.

For a better terminal emulator than Terminal.app, there are a few options out there. I use iTerm. It supports 256-color and a bunch of other goodies.

Also, DTerm lets you open a terminal in the current working directory, based on the context of the currently active program.

Magneus
Disclaimer: Personally, I only use my Mac for iPhone dev. I think it's inferior to Linux apart from media, phone sync, gaming, as you allude to.

I am underwhelmed with the interface. It's better than the Microsoft offerings, but it's not half as slick as it's touted to be. Despite what another user has said, I've found clashing keyboard shortcuts to be a problem, between XCode, spaces, etc. It's a bit of a PITA to get everything working just right.

GNOME may not be pretty, but I'd argue it's more functional.

Also, as an APT addict, it feels so clunky to go back to manual installation for everything.

I see Mac OS as the happy medium between Windows and Linux. You'll have to grab most of your software manually, and you won't be able to tweak everything to your heart's content, but you have access to a lot of commercial software, remappable shortcuts, POSIX compatibility (MacPorts), and more.

Keep in mind that if you ever have second thoughts, you can utilize VirtualBox or BootCamp to run your favorite OS, whether it's Windows, Linux, etc.

foljs
Some apps and stuff:

Coda or Espresso, (html IDEs) Adobe Creative Suite, ('nuff said if working with Bitmaps, Flash, Vectors et al) Terminal.app, (CLI love) UNIX (tm), (a full blown unix under the hoods) CSSEdit, (css editing) TextMate or BBEdit, (programmers' editor) Scrivener, (writers' editor) Navicat, (MySQL admin) MAMP and MAMP Pro (Mac, Apache, MySQL, PHP stack), MacPorts (app repository), Vim, Emacs, MySQL, Postgresql, Python, Ruby et al (familiar unixy apps), Automator (task automation), Omnigraffle (graphs), sips (CLI image editing), Pixelmator (image editing), Transmit 4, (ftp client) Little Snitch, (application firewall)

Just google for the above...