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Ask HN: As a developer, how can I take advantage of time spent driving to work?

93 points by d_man ↗ HN
I work as a developer (Java full stack if it makes any difference) and live quite far from my workplace: it usually takes me one hour and a half to and from work by car. Moving closer to my workplace is not an option nor is it using other means to go back and forth (eg train/bus). I feel like my time spent on the road is mostly wasted: I'd like to find something IT-related to do (both listen to and reason about) that can help me learn new stuff. Since I'm passionate about Linux, I usually have a few Linux (or BSD) podcasts to listen to while driving but I found that to be not really instructive, just more enjoyable than listening to the radio or some music playlist. I'm looking for any kind of suggestion from fellow developers who are in the same spot and have found any interesting way or resources to 'spend wisely' their travel time. What resources would you suggest (if any exists) to learn something while driving (much like you would do with a foreign language audio course)? Is it even possible? Has anyone tried or can share an experience of 'audio learning' IT related?

115 comments

[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 182 ms ] thread
romanhn
Does it have to IT-related? I find audiobooks, both fiction and non-fiction, to be a great way to pass time during commute. The Great Courses offer a bunch of interesting lectures, for instance.
spoonie
The OP is right to consider professional development during their commute, but it's not the only thing they could do. Instead driving time being professional development time, it could be hobby time. Listening to the news or audio books could free up time spent doing that at home for other things. This assumes, of course, that the OP has hobbies that they pursue at home that could be shifted to car time.
d_man
My hobbies are mountain biking and windsurfing but I'm not particularly interested in listening to news or stuff related to those. As for books, I find it far more enjoyable to read from paper rather than to listen to someone reading, although it also depends on who's reading... I really enjoyed a few audio books narrated by Stephen Fry.
doubt_me
Meditate.
pierotofy
This. But keep awareness of your surroundings while you do :)
AkiraMichi
I've tried listening to university lectures and varies conferences talks. But, I find them distracting on the road. I've found, consuming really technical stuff to be much easier. When I can give it my full attention.

Personally, I like to listen to podcasts that cover new and upcoming technologies in the field. They could be about high level stuff or even the nitty and gritty, like new language syntax or upcoming improvements to the GC.

Though, I prefer listening to audio books just as much. And, I find them to be a great supplement for professional growth along with podcasts. When I'm not listening to fiction or sci-fi books, which isn't much. I try and listen to books about soft-skills and anything relating to software development that doesn't involve having to read code.

I can't really give you any hard suggestions here. Because, I mostly, work with languages like Ruby & JS/ES6. But, there should be similar options available for at least the JVM, if not the Java ecosystem.

jgill
What are some of your favorite more technical podcasts?
AkiraMichi
With technical podcasts, I don't listen to there every episode. Only, the ones that I find interesting. But, here are some of the ones, that I usually enjoy listening to.

- The Changelog https://changelog.com/podcast

- Does Not Compute https://spec.fm/podcasts/does-not-compute/

- Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots http://giantrobots.fm/

- The Bike Shed http://bikeshed.fm/

- The Hanselminutes Podcast http://hanselminutes.com/

- The Web Ahead http://5by5.tv/webahead

diegoperini
Not technical but CGPGrey from Youtube has "Hello Internet" which is fun and relaxing.
AkiraMichi
That and “Cortex” by CGPGrey. Both of these can be quite entertaining and relaxing.
jldugger
Tech

http://devopscafe.org/

https://changelog.com/

https://www.arresteddevops.com/

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/tech/codebreaker-podcast

https://www.youtube.com/user/googletechtalks

http://www.gitminutes.com/

http://foodfightshow.org/

Business & Organizations

Request for Commits: https://changelog.com/rfc HBR Ideacast:

http://feeds.harvardbusiness.org/harvardbusiness/ideacast/

https://www.manager-tools.com/

http://ecorner.stanford.edu/podcasts.html

http://podcast.ft.com/s/ft-alphachat/

http://marketplace.org

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/

Science

60 Second Science: https://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/60-second-science...

https://academicminute.org/

http://spectrum.ieee.org/multimedia/podcasts

Engines of our Ingenuity: http://www.uh.edu/engines/

http://www.econtalk.org/

jgill
Thanks for the new things to check out!
tommy_otzen
It might not be possible, but could you share the ride with someone from your workplace that has the same interest?
d_man
Not possible, none of them living nearby. And I suspect the majority of them would rather not talk about programming or similar stuff outside of work hours. Maybe it's for the best because honestly I would not survive one hour or so drive of small talk everyday.
toomuchstuff
voice controlled command line? audio text book? maybe just accept you're not going to get much done when you're on the road. do you want a programming course for when you're sleeping too? give it a rest guy
rawfan
Here are the two things I do during my commute:

  1. listen to programmers podcasts (e.g. Full Stack Radio)
  2. listen to entertaining/news podcasts and audio-books.
Everything else just doesn't work.
d_man
Thanks, can you suggest me one or more particular podcast or a site to download podcasts from?
Gee19
Audiobooks.
NinoScript
When I'm not consuming my weekly tech podcasts, I'm listening sci-fi or fantasy on Audible. Books are really cheap if you pay a subscription, and you also get access to "channels", I sometimes put some comedy channel to lighten up my day.
superdex
commute by bike. 3 hours in the car every day is brutal.
grogenaut
3 hours by car is likely minimum 60 miles which is 4 hours by bike every single day minimum. If they're getting to highway speeds at all then it's even worse. It'd be like black mirror episode 2 every day
NinoScript
Unless a big portion of those 3 hours are spent in traffic jams, then bike could be an option, or at least an e-bike.
randomdata
Other than it was stated that he lives quite far from work.
quicklime
Another way of thinking about this is that the marginal cost of biking is only 1 extra hour per day. And there's no reason why this needs to be done every day - he could just bike in once a week.
grogenaut
He's already complaining about the actual cost.

If he manages 60mph the whole time are you saying he should do 180 miles once a week? That's not really possible without a lot of training. What if he lives in issaquah and commutes to Seattle. How about on the oil fields in nd?

Bigger question what else does he do to better himself during the bike rides?

reitoei
Relax and clear your head. Listen to some music, audio books.
pesfandiar
This is very important. Without some time off for your brain, you can't be productive for a long time. Just listening to music and being half-aware of bumper-to-bumper traffic is a good way to give your brain some rest.
tunap
In my experience, audiobooks are excellent for wide open freeway miles, and much less beneficial in traffic. One small event(close call) becomes an attention tangent and I miss last 10 or more seconds of content. Which leads to fiddling to scan back which becomes a distraction/irritation.

Try driving in silence. It allows me to process yesterday and anticipate the coming day.

reitoei
Processing yesterday or the day just gone is not always a good idea, especially if you had a bad day. This used to happen to me, I'd mull over things I should have said or done and basically torture myself for an hour until I made it home. Fuck that.
tunap
Yup, different strokes. If I don't take time to reflect my life becomes messy and my decisions become reflexive instead of weighted. When I am heated, I do go through the thoughts and let emotions run(alone) to allow the release long before I act.

edit:removed unnecessary anecdote.

tananaev
I have a side project and usually in the morning I have a pile of emails waiting in my inbox, so I reply to as many of them as I can on my bus ride to work. Basically doing support.
protomyth
I have an Audible subscription, so I listen to audiobooks on my way back and forth to work (43 miles one way). The only IT related stuff I listen to is podcasts and that's mostly news. I'm not sure its a good idea to listen to anything super, technical that might require more attention than just listening to songs on the radio. You are driving after all.

I guess the trick for me is that the audio substitutes for other entertainment time so I can watch a training video when I am not occupied by driving.

douche
I would pay double or triple for Audible if they didn't wrap their audiobooks up in an awful DRM that doesn't work with my ipod-knockoff.
grzm
They put the DRM in place so they can continue to charge lower rates that more people are willing to pay because the content isn't as easily pirated (for which they make no money at all).

What device do you have? What prevents that device from supporting the DRM Audible uses?

douche
Oh, it's some sort of $20 SanDisk copy of the original iPod Nano from ten years ago. Plays MP3s beautifully, but that is about it.

So I ended up buying some files from Audible, then had the choice of resorting to torrenting the ripped versions or using some dodgy converter to extract something useful. Or cancelling the subscription and getting a refund, which is what I did.

grzm
Sounds like Audible has pretty good customer service!

I see a little incongruity here.

You're willing to pay $20 10 years ago for media player.

Audible subscriptions are about $15/month, with additional titles approximately $15 (or more) a piece. You're willing to spend perhaps $30–$45/month for a subscription or $30–45 per title?

  1 year Audible subscription: $360 (at $30/month)
  10 years: $3,600.

  Apple iPod nano: $150.
  1 year Audible subscription: $180 (at $15/month)
  Total for first year: $330.
  Each additional year: $180.
  After 10 years: $1,950
If you don't care for Apple, I'm sure there are comparable choices available.

There are likely other trade-offs you're likely taking into account as well (e.g., some people are opposed to DRM on principle, but it's not clear to me that's your argument). But if money can solve your problem which you imply by offering to pay more, it looks like you have options to use Audible for the price you're willing to pay.

If I've done the math wrong, or made some assumptions you don't agree to, please feel free to correct me.

douche
No, you're correct; I ought to just knuckle under and spend the money, if I want to consume from Audible. But I picked up the current MP3 player on a flier, and have become used to it - it does what I want it to, in a very simple and straight-forward way.

The content that I've spent money on already dwarfs the purchase of the player. Although that content is DRM-free, so I am free to use it on this player, or any of my various laptops and desktops, and any future devices that I buy. And it is in a standard format that virtually any audio playback application understands. And I can just download those files normally, without having to install the weird Audible download manager.

grzm
It's the blades, not the razor :)

Yeah, cost of content definitely dwarfs the device over time. I'm not a huge fan of DRM (region locking particularly chafes), but I understand why DRM exists, and as long as it's reasonable (for some value of reasonable :).

One last parting gentle ribbing: the devices that play DRM-protected media usually play the DRM-free stuff, too ;)

Nadya
I believe the selection is smaller but there is also Downpour [0]. DRM-free which means you should be just fine playing on your MP3 Player. The cost is comparable to Audible ($13/mo instead of $15/mo) and you get much the same deal: 1 audio-book per month with the "credit" you get.

[0] http://www.downpour.com/

grzm
Hadn't heard of this! Thanks for the link. I wonder what their business model is like. It looks like they've been around for at least 3 years, so that's a positive sign that they're doing something right.
dashingdolphin
A few years back I was in the same boat, rocking a Sansa Clip and no smartphone. I'm a little fuzzy on the details, but the way I consumed Audible content was:

- Burning to CD, which their software did - Ripping the CD to wav using other software - (optional) chopping up the .wav files into 5 minute chunks - Compressing everything to MP3 (V8 VBR)

Not sure if they yanked this feature, but worked then!

gorbachev
You can't. I tried. It is impossible to concentrate enough to absorb anything in rush hour traffic.

I ended up quitting and taking a job to which I can take public transportation.

cyberferret
Try listening to some 'non technical' podcasts. That is what I do on my 1 hour walks in the morning. It is strangely refreshing not to have to focus on technical talks all the time, but I find creative talks tend to inspire me and get me thinking in different ways about my work.

Added bonus is that you don't have to be 100% focused on what you are hearing, you can kind of drift in and out as something interesting catches your attention and still not lose the thread of the topic.

Two of my favourite podcasts are "99% Invisible" (creativity, architecture) and "The Tim Ferris Show" (biohacking, inspiration, interesting people etc.)

goshx
My life changed when I started to listen to audiobooks while driving to/from work. However, the audiobooks are usually not pure technical, but always topics that can help me become better in many aspects in life in general, including professionally.
grzm
Indeed. Exposure to different areas is a great way of expanding one's perspective. The mind is a great associative device, sometimes connecting ideas we wouldn't otherwise. Plays well with the "I get my best ideas in the shower"-style phenomena.
An0namust
Invest in a Tesla vehicle? Probably sounds like overkill but if you can afford it the autopilot feature could get you your hands/hours back
rodhan
I highly recommend Clarke Ching's "Rolling Rocks Downhill" audiobook [1] which is a novel that teaches/refreshes agile software development in a really engaging way. I'd love to know if there are more novels like that out there - I haven't managed to find any.

I'm getting bored with podcasts these days because most of them have too much idle chat. Shows like "99% Invisible" that are well produced and low on chit chat are fine but I think audiobooks are the way forward.

[1] http://www.rolls.rocks/podcasts-video/2016/2/23/rolling-rock...

throwaway2016a
Audio books. But not software audio books (that sounds like torture). Listen to books on things that broaden your horizon. I listen to a lot of books on business and marketing even though my day to day job has nothing to do with that. I also listen to a lot of science fiction (old stuff and new) because it helps me appreciate where we have been and where we might strive to be as a thinking society.
a3n
Do you ever solve problems or have other insights while not working on those things? Like when you sleep, or in the shower?

Your brain needs rest and distraction, both for professional health and general health.

If I worked, say, 8 hours a day, and then added in your three hour commute every day, that would be borderline death march.

Besides all the utilitarian suggestions, you could consider something unrelated to your work or profession, at least part of the time.

I sing. I put a couple hundred singable (by me) songs on a usb stick, and play them. When I land on one that I want to learn, I put it on repeat, and learn it.

I didn't used to be able to sing, from lack of singing at all and self-consciousness. I didn't used to even sing in the car alone, I was that self-conscious. Now I've improved (my voice has been complemented, singing and not), and I've sung songs among friends and co-workers.

Sometimes I don't sing, and think about something at work or elsewhere. It's not all or nothing.

Maybe listen to old radio shows like The Shadow Knows, The Honeymooners, Dragnet, or whatever you find that appeals.

Demcox
This guy has a very solid point which is especially important in todays world with the immense amounts of distractions and so on.

I would actually recommend not doing anything specifically work related, but maybe listing to a developer/problemsolving/relevant podcast could be one way to entertain yourself with somewhat relevant content if you really feel the need to. Being "bored" is time better spent than you would think :-)

[dead] Demcox
This guy has a very solid point which is especially important in todays world with the immense amounts of distractions and so on.

I would actually recommend not doing anything specifically work related, but maybe listing to a developer/problemsolving/relevant podcast could be one way to entertain yourself with somewhat relevant content if you really feel the need to. Being "bored" is time better spent than you would think :-)

uf
I too sing on my way at to work. I'm using public trains so I usually can't sing with full voice. I have several exercises I can do quietly. Also, whenever I need to learn scores for a gig or an upcoming production, I do this on the train. Here I'm more productive than at home on the piano.
mustaflex
I have 4 hours of commute(train + tram/metro) daily..., read a dozen of novels from Isaac asimov and Arthur C. Clarke in 2 months. After work, I don't even have time to open my computer or do anything besides eating, shower.
mustaflex
Sometimes I'm so absorbed by a novel, I seriously consider to arrive 'late' at work :D.
douche
I listen to podcasts or audiobooks on my commute. This summer I went through all of Dan Carlin's Hardcore History. It's true that it's not IT-related, but it's learning, and it is a good break from work. Now I've moved on to going through Game of Thrones once more.

It helps if it is something that you can enjoy without paying rapt attention - it's kind of important to have most of your brain focused on the road if you are behind the wheel.

BooneJS
If you're into the subject matter, there's the History of the Crusades podcast by Sharyn Eastaugh. In depth content, some levity, and I found it to be totally engrossing.
Eric_WVGG
I’m sure you have some very good reasons for explicitly stating that moving closer to work is not an option, but I’m really dying to know why you’re trapped in such a miserable circumstance.
twblalock
Yeah, this seems odd to me, considering that a reasonably successful software engineer can afford to live pretty much anywhere.
m3talridl3y
Not in the Bay Area. Every developer or ops person I know either has roommates or has a similar 1.5-hour commute.
twblalock
I live in the Bay Area too, and I only know one or two people in the tech industry who have that kind of commute. Many of my coworkers rent their own apartments without roommates.
unhammer
> (much like you would do with a foreign language audio course)

How about trying just that? It's a lot of fun if you get a good course (e.g. Pimsleur), since you can really feel the progress. I've never managed to learn much from technical audio stuff; I feel like I need pen&paper/computer at hand to grasp new technical cocncepts, while language actually works better when i'm not able to distract myself :-) (Step Two: use newfound language skills to move to a place where you don't need the commute.)

eip
You are asking the wrong question. The real question is why are you still driving to work? What is special about your office that requires you to be there in order to get work done? Do you not have internet at your house?