What’s the best feedback you got when you DIDN’T get the job?
It’s bad enough that you didn’t get the job. But you’re left wondering, “What did I do wrong?”
Every so often, fate is kind, and you get useful feedback. If you are lucky, someone is direct enough to say, “We decided we needed someone with more manufacturing experience,” or “When push came to shove, we concluded that the telecommuting was a deal breaker,” or, “The new CMO came in and decided to bring in the team from her old company.” In the best of circumstances, the knowledge gives you a way to improve.
So I’m writing an article (for a publication you know) collecting the best feedback that people received, as well as providing advice for the uncomfortable manager who has to say, “You’re not the one.” I don’t need to attribute anyone by name, though a context helps (“John applied for a programming job” is credible enough). But if you’d like to be on the record, that’s good too.
• As a job applicant who didn’t get the gig, what feedback or advice was useful or reassuring? Why?
• As a hiring manager, what have you found most effective for saying why the applicant didn’t get the job? Why do you feel that worked? How did you handle it when the truth is uncomfortable (“You offended someone by arguing with his expertise”)?
For gosh sakes, tell me stories. Maybe we can save someone else from experiencing that frustrating sense of mystery and self-flagellation.
32 comments
[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 89.7 ms ] threadThe best feedback I got (through a side channel) was that the team was in a deadlock between me and another candidate, so it came down to a coin toss and I lost. I felt reassured, because at least the ordeal was over.
Another time I was declined because they only higher product managers with CS degrees and I do not have one. In that case I felt annoyed because this info was readily apparent on my resume, and I do have tech skills but they never brought up the issue in the interview.
So the whole 'toss half of the resumes in the garbage because we don't want someone who's unlucky' story basically happened to you? Wow. I guess I prefer that to 'we just thought this other guy was better than you'.
A few years ago:
"Bit too much of a solo developer, which can be great but not what we're looking for."
Which is fair given that the context was they were needing to rapidly build a new core team for their first foray into microservices.
I was perfectly happy with the response, because I'd say it's a fair personal assessment, clearly at odds with how they planned to build the team, and my role at the time was very much a "Me and the Admin" type scenario.
When I've declined a role it has usually been due to a faint whiff of "Desperate eyed non-technical founder with a great idea" which I've usually characterised to them as being "Too accustomed to security of a more traditional company".
Or in once instance I advised the hiring manager that it didn't seem they needed more devs at all, that the two they had seemed by his description to be drowning in BAU and support tasks, that him training or hiring administrators would probably be a better use of his budget and more likely to retain the domain expertise already baked into his existing devs, before more of them left...Which was accurate even if he hadn't just also told me that he'd increased internal adoption of their CRM system by making it a disciplinary matter if usage was low.
Did they want you to lead the team or be on the team? For the former it would make sense, but not for the later.
Was reassuring insofar as it wasn't "you're not good enough".
2. Interviewed at startup, it goes well, then silence for weeks. I ping them, and eventually they said they're having some internal problems and if I have another offer I should probably take it. They apparently had "internal problems" for years, as in one review from 6 years later where it was still "it's a startup, don't know if I'll have job next week".
The job I did end up taking worked out very well.
This is the third time in as many days I've read that. Is this becoming the go-to excuse for rejecting applicants? I mean, as with all excuses it has a basis in reality -- I'd be bothered enough by an applicant sitting there futzing around with the mouse to have doubts about their technical competence -- and yet it's completely irrelevant to the actual job of a software engineer, which is to stave off manglement long enough to cobble something together.
I appreciated their honesty and it's better than the lawyer safe generic email.
Fair enough.
Somewhat later, after blabbing too much about math: "We think this job would be too boring for you."
Memo to self: don't blab about math, unless they ask.
In sum virtually any feedback is great, as long as it's honest, and doesn't beat around the bush.
Have never even held a cigarette in my life let alone smoked one
Tests included questions like "Johnny had a joint on Friday after work, is he OK to work on Monday?"
"Do you think smokers work to equal levels as their non-smoking employees"
and so on
Pretty sure this was illegal but I was young and had no idea so meh
When I was younger I applied for a lot of jobs like that (supermarket, bookstore, data entry) and dealt with automated quizzes like that. None were quite that blatant, but even in my late teens I understood a lot of the questions were about risk assessment.
So it stands to reason that a huge concern with this was keeping insurance premiums down.
Either way it is still a "Real" tech job, just for an asshole company
He was right (and obviously. Like I said, one year of university). I took it to heart, and practiced programming. Nailed my next interviews. :)
I've never had any other constructive feedback from an interview, and at more than one company, I've been given specific instructions not to provide it (by the recruiting team).
What were you told?
That's the other side of this issue, of course. Because there are some things it would be hard to say out of politeness ("You pissed off the boss" or "People thought you were insufferable") or fear of legal repercussion ("We would never say this out loud, but one of the people on the team was sure that a woman would mess up the team dynamics").
So what did the recruiting team tell you [not] to say?
Have a policy of 'no feedback' means that it is much harder for an applicant to gather evidence for a lawsuit. Sure can be frustrating sometimes though.
IANAL, etc.
I knew what they were referring to. A problem I solved with a for loop, they then asked me how else I would do it. I couldn't think of another way, but after giving me a few tries they unleashed their genius: "What if you copy paste the loop innards 10 times".
And because I didn't mention that as a solution I guess I was holding back.
Applied 10 years later just to see if they'd improved. They told me that as I applied before and was rejected they could only pay me a graduate salary which was unchanged in 10 years to boot!
1. He said he and his team were sitting on the fence about whether to take me on or not. The interviews went well, but he couldn't make a decision yet, so we agreed to talk in the morning.
2. He called the next morning and told me I didn't get the position. He gave his reasons (further down) and told me to keep in touch. I asked if I could call him again to ask some questions and he said that was fine.
3. Played phone tag a little, but he eventually called back and took the time to answer my questions about growing as an engineer.
This hiring manager was looking for senior engineers. I had no idea where I stood in my career, having been at the same company for most of my career (8 years), but I decided to give the interview a try. Hiring manager said I was not senior enough (a fair assessment) for the position. I asked him what it would take for me to be considered "senior enough" and he gave me some pointers on how to gain depth and breadth, as well as developing soft skills.
That 3rd phone call was really, really valuable. I started reading books (both technical and non technical) and really pushing myself to code more. But more importantly, I've pushed myself to seek help and guidance from people who are way more experienced. I suppose when you get specific directions, you get just a little bit closer to your destination... even if it's a moving target. :)
It's pretty rare to get this kind of feedback and I can definitely see why recruiters and hiring managers don't give this level of detail. They're really not obligated, and it can get them in trouble.
(edit: line breaks)
However, as with all soft skills all of the feedback posted here is subjective to external circumstances. The often limited interpretation and perception of the interviewer goes along way into the hiring process.
So, from my small experience, there are many things that must come into play in order to get hired. The good thing is that in our industry hiring is going strong compared to other industries which are vanishing.
I think we can agree that valuable feedback comes mostly from people with whom we work daily and managers.
You > recruiters > team
Team > HR > You
The only way to get feedback is to skip the middle layers.
Understand that you may not have done anything wrong at all.
Even if the hiring executive is a seasoned pro in evaluating and assessing prospective talent-- the interview process can be very subjective. He's trying to scorecard a number of strong competitors for the role. All of the finalists could likely do the job successfully. It can make the final hiring decision a very tough call.
As a candidate -- an area to probe just before finishing the interview, ask the hiring executive if they have any concerns or reservations about your skills/experience as it relates to their decision criteria. This is your chance to uncover and address any possible objections. Here's a Forbes take on this > http://www.forbes.com/sites/crossingborders/2012/04/25/the-r...