Ask HN: I am 30yrs and never had a full time job, now suicidal. Any life advice?
i am seeking for life advice. Right now, i don't know what i should do with my life. I feel trapped. Forgotten. Not part of society. And the part that worries me the most : i have become suicidal.
Context :
I am almost 30 years old. I studied Bioinformatics, still doing my masters. That is one of the main reasons i never worked. It took me 10 years to study and i feel my life doesn't progress, while others buying cars or getting married. Even though i only have to attend 3 more exams, with my current depression, it feels sooo hard to even pass one of them. The reason it took me so long was, that i had to work next to my studies. I am broke as hell, in fact, i have a debts of 20000€. I am based in germany. I applied for 20 jobs so far. Already got 4 rejections.
I feel unwanted and even though germany has a social security net .. i imagined my life not to be so bad.
I feel like, i can never "start a life", because i studied so long and no one wants a quitter .. at least in germany. I don't know what to do. I am in a unhappy place and i can't get out :(
89 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 152 ms ] threadFirst, the truth is that God loves you and doesn't want you to end your life. I don't know what you believe, but I am firmly convinced that that is the truth. And being so, it overrides everything else in life. No matter how bad things seem, no matter how bad things actually are, this life is not all there is, and if we wash our sins away and live faithfully, we will inherit eternal life. Not only does that give us hope for the distant future and in the next life, but it gives us hope here and now, today, because God loves us and wants what's best for us. Note, this is not a prosperity gospel--what God wants most is for us to be faithful, and so he does not promise us an easy life, material wealth, or even good health. But he does promise to give us what we need.
Secondly, from a worldly perspective, there are people who have overcome much worse circumstances than you are in right now, to achieve their dreams, prosperity, success, or just plain happiness. So there is empirical evidence that you have hope for the future.
Thirdly, try to take a step back from yourself and your current feelings. Try to recognize that how you feel right now is not necessarily how things actually are. We humans are funny creatures, and our minds can run away from us, leading us down dark, hypothetical paths that may bear no relation to reality.
I don't know more than what you have said, so it might be that you have felt this way every day for a long time, or it might be that you have good days and bad days. Either way, you may feel differently later today, tomorrow, next week, etc. Sometimes a good night's sleep is all I need to snap out of a blue mood I find myself in when I get tired and stressed. It used to be that I would spiral further down and down, but sometimes now I recognize that I'm not being rational, that I am tired or hungry or stressed, and that I'll probably feel differently tomorrow--and I usually do.
So it might be that, at this particular moment, you are at an acutely low place, but it might be just a few hours until you're at a more even place. Don't be too hard on yourself. Give yourself some time. Take care of yourself. Eat a good meal, go to bed early (like, several hours early, give yourself plenty of time to get extra sleep), and give yourself the best chance at tomorrow.
One of the easiest patterns to fall into when depressed is to focus on oneself. It's really easy to do this when you're alone. It may help to envision the future life you would like to have, the future family you would like to have, etc, and think of yourself as preparing to live that life, preparing to serve those people. That means that you need to take care of yourself now so you can take care of others in the future. You have many years ahead of you and can do much good in the world. You can make many others' lives better with your time, body, and mind. Think of yourself as a potential force for good in the world, and consider yourself in training to serve.
Finally, if you have gone so far as to make plans for ending your life, you are at the point that you need help immediately. I don't know anything of Germany's social systems, but I'm sure there is a hotline or something like it that you could call or reach out to for help. Stop what you're doing and make that call right now. You owe it to yourself and those whom you will serve in the future to save your life now. It won't be easy, but it's the right thing to do, and you are strong enough to do it. I know you are, because you've already reached out here. Don't think about it, don't rationalize about it, just do it. All the other stuff can wait and can come in time. Take care of yourself now. Take a step back and consider yourself a friend in need of your help, and do what you would do for a beloved friend.
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It sounds to me that you might be depressed. The thing about depression is that it's possible to manage -- but you have to reach out. You've posted this, and that's a good first step, but now you need to tell a professional.
Personally there were many times when life was quite bleak and it all felt like a dead-end. I think that with a little help, you can move past this point, and later you will look back at it and be glad you did.
You are young full of promise, healthy and educated. You are determined and hard working and only going through a temporary (and normal)period of self doubt.
I'd say you are not in a bad place.
Edit
1. You should see a therapist to check you out for depression as someone as pointed out.
2. Keep on applying for jobs. 4 rejections is nothing.
3. Be thankful you live in this era, the greatest time to be alive .
Yeah, 4 rejections is nothing really. Remember, even in Germany, companies are run mostly by very busy people that have bad moods and not enough sugar in their coffee when they review your application. They may have lost a contract and no longer have money for the job, they may be racist asshats or smug know-nothings, there are a billion legit reasons, and a trillion stupid ones. I know it seems so very personal to you to get rejected, but there are millions of jobs in Germany that you can do still and need someone to do them. You WILL find a job, and it may take a LONG time, but you'll be a lot happier and better off when you find the RIGHT job for you. A lot of it is luck, but if you keep applying, eventually you'll hit the jackpot. If it helps, I applied for 2000+ jobs in ~2009 before getting a single email back, and I found a job that I loved and was a good fit for. So, it does happen, even if it sucks right now.
Whats the rush? You will get married, get a job, buy a house, have a career and all that its not like you are 80.
Its all in the head just change something, start going to the gym, get out more often, anything really that you have not been doing.
And also on what metrics your life isn't progressing? You don't have a job because you chose to study and you feel behind your peers? There's time for that and for everything as i said previously. Think about it.
Chin up.
EDIT: Typos
(Here's a secret: ten years from now, no one will know or care whether you have that master's degree or not.)
No offense intended, but I want to just say, "Toughen up, Cupcake." Jobs aren't won by applications, connections are key. Always have been, always will be. If you want to choose to be depressed... there's not much anyone can do. If you want to improve your situation, I hope you do realize that you do have the power to do so.
Life isn't a race, comparing yourself to other people... it's just dumb. You have no way of knowing where they started, or where they really are. You don't know who is saying, "Man, tevlon sure has a lot more knowledge about Bioinformatics than I do... all I have is a wife and a car..." A bit of an exaggeration but you get my point? So relax, you made these choices, and you had your reasons.
Measure yourself against the goals you set for yourself.
Steps to fixing application process:
1) Get a friend you trust in the industry to review your resume and cover letter, and work to grow your network.
2) Forget about applying to jobs on websites -- or if you do, understand that it doesn't have a high success rate... go to events, meet people, leverage existing connections for leads on jobs. You'll feel better if you're out mingling. hits.
Steps to fixing the depression:
0) You don't fix depression. You fend it off for as long as you can. It's a choice to not allow yourself to do things that put you back on the path to depression.
1) See a shrink. Make sure they can talk to you about shitty behavior patterns that spiral you into oblivion, and what you can do to avoid those. Do not, under any circumstances, bitch to your friends about your personal problems. That's not what friends are for, that's what you pay a shrink for.
2) See a coach. An advisor, someone who has what you want and can mentor you. It takes a while to find a good one.
3) Avoid alcohol, marijuana... really all mood-altering substances... until you're in a better place. And then, make sure to use them only in moderation.
4) You can't let these little speed bumps in life make you want to end it. You have to be mentally tough to get ahead. Ways to get mentally stronger... A) Get a routine that involves getting up early and working out. If you are prone to depression and you aren't out breaking a sweat by 6 AM every day... you're putting yourself at risk. B) Acknowledge your small victories, at any point the outcome could have been worse and you did something to ensure it was what it was... celebrate what you did vs. what it could have been. If you need help with this, get a dog. C) Be OK with failure and rejection. Don't look at it as, "Oh I fucked up..." Start writing a journal, keep track of what you learned from each loss, chalk it up as a learning experience, and move on. Nobody bats 1000, even the greats were lucky to get hits 1/3 of the time.
EDIT: You said you were in Germany, so I don't know if you get the baseball references, but I'm going to double down on them. Babe Ruth, widely regarded as the best player ever, played in the majors for 22 seasons. He lived to be 53, so more than half of his life he wasn't playing at all. He had 8,399 at-bats, or opportunities to hit the ball, and he got 2,873 hits -- or 34%. Meaning at least 60% of the time when he went to hit the ball, he didn't accomplish that goal. Best player ever. Something to keep in mind. Everyone fails, it's how we pick ourselves up and try again that matters.
Good luck!
> Do not, under any circumstances, bitch to your friends about your personal problems. That's not what friends are for, that's what you pay a shrink for.
There is some truth to this. Not everyone is equipped to help friends who are suffering from depression. Some may be too selfish, some may just not know how, and some may be dealing with too many issues of their own at the time. If one indiscriminately reaches out to "friends" for help with serious issues like this, one may come away more disappointed and discouraged than helped.
However, there are people who are able to help, and sometimes one is lucky enough to have one as a friend.
So I would recommend being careful which friends one reaches out to, but I would not say that one should never reach out to friends. :)
If you can't afford a shrink... or are traveling... I've found that your nearest Rabbi or Catholic Priest will generally do in a pinch.
Your friends... well maybe your friends are better than mine, but since I don't know what my friends can take, and I don't want to burden them with stuff that I carry in my head. When you are depressed you aren't yourself -- not the you that your friends recognize anyway.
I personally don't like showing my friends that side of me... over the years I've found that the whiney neurotic insecure blob I turn into when I'm depressed isn't able to maintain friendships and scares people away. I used to blame them, but really it's just a lot to process. Now I find it better to just segment that part of my life away from the people who care about me. I like having friends around when I'm good, and having them around helps me from slipping back into depression... but friends can't cure depression. It's gotta be a choice to not be depressed any more and take the appropriate actions... easy to conceptualize, but feels like lifting Mt. Everest when you're going through it.
I sleep in a cool room without any electronics. Every night -- when I'm up or down. I have an alarm clock, and that's it. I leave my laptop in my office, and my phone plugged into a charger in the kitchen. The body will try and heal itself, you have to give it the right resources to do that... clean food, lots of water, and plenty of sleep.
But, since then, I have other friends who have been there for me. And there are some friends whom I have been there for, because I know what it was like. So it's not impossible. :)
It's wise to be careful in choosing whom you try to lean on. Maybe it's not possible without a hard learning experience first. And it's made harder by not being in the most rational state of mind at the time.
Suicide... clearly not something to joke about, but I have to believe the original author came here for advice. Wrote what worked for me. Some people may embrace the touchy-feely stuff more... for me personally that was all just a time sink. Depression is something you fix yourself, by taking action. Small actions lead to bigger actions lead to better feelings.
For anyone who is depressed I would recommend the first three steps:
1) Take a hot shower, shave, put on clean clothes.
2) Go for a walk. Don't take electronics with you. Just walk. As far as you can and tell your feet hurt. Take a minute to celebrate how far you walked.
3) Get a good night of sleep.
Use the time walking to think about a game plan for things you want to accomplish. Start small. Be honest about what you like about yourself, and what you want to change. And remember a goal without an action plan is just a dream. Work on plans. I will do A, then B, then C and check my results at each step of the way...
If you need a few days to just contemplate how worthless you are, do that while walking. Take all the time you need, don't beat yourself up for feeling that way. But make sure you are exhausting your body each day. Rinse and repeat as needed until you feel like doing something more productive.
Another nurse, on the same watch, gave him a bottle of sleeping pills that she never retrieved.
He's dead now.
There's a difference between not coddling someone and "toughen up, cupcake".
Your advice is likely to kill people. It is bad advice. You should feel bad for talking bollocks about something you clearly have no training in.
In general, when you have no fucking clue what you're talking about you should just shut the fuck up. That is especially true when you risk killing people with poor advice.
Here's one particularly stupid example:
> Take a hot shower, shave,
"You're suicidal. Go find a really sharp blade".
Telling him to take a shower, shave, and put on clean clothes is probably very good advice. When it comes to human beings, function often follows form; or to put it another way, to a large extent, we feel how we act. If a person has been depressed and cooped up for some time, it's likely he hasn't been taking great care of himself, and so if he looks in the mirror, it's likely he isn't presenting his best self--which further contributes to the downward spiral. Cleaning himself up will have an immediate positive effect on his self-image.
Your comment about the blade is rather silly. Obviously, if he's a grown man, he's going to have a shaving implement in his bathroom, whether a safety razor, an electric shaver, etc. It's most likely in plain sight on the counter. Are you going to tell him to not go to the bathroom because he might see his razor? Are you going to tell him to not open his kitchen drawers because he might see a knife? I think that kind of fearmongering would push him further down the spiral. Treating him as if he is on a hair trigger is more likely to put him on one, because it trains him to think of everything around him as a potential threat to himself.
When people are looking to others for support, they largely act up to the expectations they have of themselves. If we treat them as if we expect them to harm themselves, it's more likely that they will. If we treat them as if we expect them to recover and take care of themselves, it's more likely that they will.
Of course, this depends on their state of mind: if they are past a certain point, they need to be watched constantly and protected from themselves. But I don't think this is the case with him. He's calmly come here to ask for help. He needs encouragement and help retraining his thought processes; he doesn't need to be treated as if he's a lost cause who needs to be taken away in a straightjacket. That would surely make him feel worse.
Call a suicide hotline.
800-273-8255
I also think I may be able to relate to your situation of being 30 without a career.
When I turned 30 I wasn't working. I thought I was taking a few months off, but couldn't get back into the work force. I was unemployed for almost 2 years, taking the odd job I could and volunteering (which I recommend).
I hadn't discovered programming or product management (truly) yet, which would become my profession by my mid-thirties. Ten years on, I work for a leading research agency, surrounded by amazing and brilliant co-workers and get to learn and experience more every day.
So, my point is, many people are just getting on the path at 30. You're not the only one, and I felt the same way you did at the time. I felt I was lost, I sought help. It was terrifying to think that I was left behind, that this is all my life would be.
The rejections from jobs you want can hurt, I know that, and each rejection gets more painful, and more scary.
I don't believe I have any contacts in Germany, though I could be wrong. Feel free to add me on linkedin (my name is same as my username here) and I'd be happy to help where with connections if I can.
PS, though 20000€ may seem a massive insurmountable amount, and it is a large chunk, you can pay that down in a few years if you're careful.
All is not lost, and this test will make you stronger. Don't be afraid to ask for help.
1) you had a plan when you started your studies - any plan requires consequence and you are the only one who can consequently execute your plan. So don't give up when there's only 100 meters away from finish! Last 100 meters always feels worst but look back at whole marathon you are just finishing!
2) don't worry about job hunting, your end result will greatly depend on luck and how you structure your CV. In your situation any work-related experience (even if it was scientific coop, volunteering or teaching) is useful and everything depends on how you put this together. I can help with your CV (though I don't speak German, I can share nice video about CV writing)
3) you are under strong emotions now and obviously you are aware that any decision made under emotions is a bad decision. Step back, have a break, have a sleep, have ice cream, have chocolate, watch sci-fi movie from 70's, play a computer game, do whatever helps you relax. Focus since you are close achieving your goal!
4) this is not a big dept, you will pay it back in no time once you get a job (and you will get one, that is with no doubt since German economy is the strongest in Europe)
As for your job situation I'd mirror what dbg31415 said. Keep your chin up. Just to make you feel a little bit better let me share what I went through when first looking for a job. I applied for 120 positions when I started and only 3 got back to me and 2 wanted to hire me. I took an internship and worked up from there. I made connections and used those to branch out.
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Sofortige Hilfe erhalten Sie rund um die Uhr bei der Telefonseelsorge unter der bundeseinheitlichen kostenlosen Rufnummer 0800 - 111 0 111 oder 0800 - 111 0 222 und im Internet unter www.telefonseelsorge.de
I have a space alien.
I win you lose. NIgger you will die if you fight God against me.
In the end I win.
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The CIA started a war with God. I am waiting for you to surrender. Obviously you lose. I'm eating popcorn watching this movie.
"You see that, Mr. God? The atheist CIA nigger just spit on you. LOL LOL LOL Hilarious."
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Talking about this type of stuff is okay. You took a chance in writing this up and no doubt it took a lot of effort. Please don't be embarrassed. You have taken the right first step.
If you want a way to self-measure/reflect on how you got to this place, then please read https://opensource.com/business/15/12/avoid-burnout-live-hap... but unfortunately in your current position/state it's not going to be possible to be self-aware/objective. The internet isn't the right avenue and this isn't the first time you have brought up this topic [1]
PLEASE start listening to yourself and make the change you need in your life happen by picking up the phone and seeking medical advice. If they don't handle this matter with respect, care and compassion needed, then fuck those guys. Pick up the phone again and find someone who will listen and that wants to help you get through this. You got this; if you can ask a bunch of strangers for help then you can ask a medical professional. No excuses. Asking a bunch of strangers for help without anonymity takes guts.
Burnout is often difficult for some to self-diagnose (typically as they always find other reasons to justify their symptoms) but the good news is when you have experienced burnout; you can often see it in other people. When you do, you should step in and help. Get through this, then you can help others because you have been there and can recognise the signs.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=tevlon
After that, I became a trader and the $ I earned was way more than the friends who got into the market earlier than me can earn.
Don't give up , then you will have everything you want in your life later.
First get some help, there's medication that can help with anxiety. Right now you're in a death spiral: You can't sleep which causing stress, which is causing you to loose sleep. Some medication will calm you down enough where you can start to get a grip back on reality. This dread you are feeling is stress induced so you need to deal with that first.
Second, you want to think about finding a lifeline, something to give you some stability. You don't need to shoot for the stars on a dream job right now. Maybe that includes doing some lab-assistant work at the university. See what kinds of clubs there are in your school, maybe consulting clubs or investment banking clubs, or entrepreneur clubs.
$20,000 may feel like a lot of debt, but many Americans have hundreds of thousands in debt when they graduate. Just make sure you dial back and live under your means.
Finally, you still have time on your side. I didn't start my PhD until I was 30 and while I felt my life was over at 36 when I graduated and I resented the years off sacrifice for no payoff, there are opportunities out there. I took a very low paying job to get back on my feet, and eventually I founded a startup that has had some minor success so far. What'a important to turning the corner is to find a ray of hope. If you can do that, whatever you're going through today doesn't feel that bad.
From all of this I also met my wonderful wife and I can't imagine my life without her. I would have ever met if life had 'worked out' as I had planned. Sometimes these hard roads bring you to the place you really need to be. Stick with it and I promise you that you'lol get back to being in a good place. This is just like having a cold or the flu. It will pass.
I don't know what I can say that will have any meaning to you, insofar as I dismissed everything said to me at that time in my own life, but I'll say this: believe it or not, you have exclusive control over whether you have the opportunity for your life to improve. All you have to do is give yourself the opportunity by whatever means possible. All you have to do is wake up tomorrow morning.
First I would say, call that suicide hotline. Get some emotional support, whether through confiding in family or friends, perhaps a therapist --- but there is a lot of questionable psych advice out there. Be careful. If it doesn't make sense, don't just blindly accept it. Keep seeking more and more truth in your life, though. (If you think reading might help, I like any book by Dr. Chris Thurman.)
But yeah, volunteering can help at least some people. It gets your mind off yourself and likewise helps make a difference in another's life. That is the centerpiece of meaning in nearly everyone's life: making a difference in the world.