I used to be one of those who didn't. Now it is my policy to get AppleCare and a case for everything I buy from Apple. Why? Because items from Apple protected with a case and still under warranty have much higher resale value.
Ditto on the case. I once tried to sell a Powerbook G4 that had a big dent on one of the corners, when the going rate on Craigslist was ~$500. I couldn't find a buyer for more than 300.
The MBP that replaced it has lived its entire life in a case.
I have not, but that's probably because I tend to buy mac's used since I'm near a university and the prices are just too enticing. Plus, I suspect like most other HN readers, I don't mind doing repairs myself if need be.
Come on, if it was really as certain as all that, Apple would be making a loss on AppleCare. (I guess it's possible that they are running it at a loss, but it seems unlikely.)
I've gotten it for my last two laptops. It's a little spendy, but I find the peace of mind more than worth it, particularly after my partner's experience with her iBook some years back. That particular model had some notorious hardware problems, which in her case didn't pop up until her laptop was (just barely) out of warranty. She ended up needing to use her AppleCare several times before everything was finally resolved. If she hadn't had it, it would have ended up being quite expensive. Apple's QA has improved quite a bit since then, but still...
No. Assuming the seller isn't stupid, insurance has a negative expected value. You should still buy it if the loss you're protecting against would catastrophic, which is the case for health and homeowner's insurance, and is absolutely not the case for a Mac.
I've owned around 10 Macs in the last 15 years. Foregoing AppleCare has "saved" me over $2000, and the damage that would have been covered had I bought it is less than $500.
I mostly agree, but would say, "Assuming the seller isn't stupid or you have information they do not...", which is sometimes the case. E.g., you know you'll be subjecting the device to conditions that contribute to failure but don't void the warranty.
For example, I recently bought a comprehensive SquareTrade warranty for my Roomba because they priced it as a "vacuum cleaner", when in fact I know that the Roomba (a) an immature technology compared to most vacuums and (b) more likely to fall or be knocked down the stairs. I did the math and decided the odds of this thing dying or being killed in the first three years were greater than the warranty/purchase price ratio.
If you're worried it'll die, and you won't be able to afford to replace it, scale back. you can add ram later, you can improve the hd later.
I think you'll get more peace of mind by doing some math. Computers are the tools i use for work, so i tend to buy new ones fairly frequently. The odds of me using any given computer for more that 2 years are pretty low. So, how much of a hardship would it be to replace that earlier?
If it's really a budget stretch, you might think about moving to the cheaper end of the spectrum. What if it gets stolen? applecare is no help.
Also, the first 30 days come with applecare. Usually if hardware is going to die, it'll die quick. Flexing the motherboard for years will kill a laptop eventually, but meh.
No. Laptops are replaced every 18-24 months. AppleCare and any other warranty for laptops is completely worthless. When I went to buy my current MacBook the salesman actually refused to sell me one after I told him I wasn't going to buy the warranty since I'd just be replacing it again next year.
RevA Apple products are guaranteed to die right after year 1, in my (limited && anecdotal) experience. I had to take in my Rev A Macbook when they just switched to intel 5 times, got the bezel & mother board replaced. So, if you're getting an iPad now or new gen macbooks, then yes.
No, I haven't because I don't like to pay a premium for something that should come with the product. In the EU, in my case the Netherlands, anyone who sells a product is responsible for its reliability during the time a customer can reasonably expect it to work. When it breaks after more than two years I will have replaced it anyway.
In my case they have covered the repair of an iMac that broke a few months after their 'warranty' of one year expired. One of my interns, however, was refused support in a similar situation with a faulty PowerBook screen. His uncle, a lawyer, wrote some angry letters to Apple on his behalf, but if I remember correctly they decided that it wasn't worth the costs of going to court.
My thoughts are warranties/insurance are the following:
* If having to repurchase/cover the item would seriously hurt my financials, then I buy it (car insurance, rental insurance, etc are good examples).
* For everything else, I skip it.
I figure that by self-insuring, I come out ahead in the end. Sure, there's always some gadgets that fail past the end date of the manufacturers warranty. However, replacing those items tends to cost less than buying warranties for everything. Besides, if they fail past the manufacturer's warranty, there's usually some improved version of it I've been eying anyways.
Warranties seem to have a lot of parallels with gambling. People love to tell the stories about how they bought a $2000 television and the warranty saved them when it broke 1 year later. However, they rarely mention all the warranties they purchased and never used.
That said, warranties are not always bad. In the specific case of students, I suspect the answer to "If having to repurchase/cover the item would seriously hurt my financials" is different for their situation than it is for mine. As such, it might make perfect sense for them to buy the warranty.
Maybe I'm cynical, but paying $80 for 3 years of coverage is a no-brainer for me.
I mean, heck, my battery died after 2 years of usage and they replaced it for free. As a result, I've already "made" $20 off of it, and that's without any major repairs (which I've definitely had them do under AppleCare before).
Of course, my machine and maybe my TV ($50 for 3 years) are the only warranties I've purchased. I think I agree with your philosophy, but I don't think that's ever stopped me from buying a warranty on nearly anything.
Also, the education pricing gives a big discount on AppleCare. I've been looking at MBP's, and it's ~$300 for AppleCare normally but ~$200 for it with education pricing, which makes it a much better bet.
I'm purchasing a 15" MBP (with education pricing) as soon as the back-to-school sale starts, and I'm pretty sure I'll get AppleCare.
The issue with 99% of warranties is you have to send the item in for fixing. That is often not the case for apple items in the AppleCare cycle, which makes it a LOT more valuable.
Gateway warranties on the other hand, took my last laptop for 4 months to fix it.
Agreed, students more frequently setup and move their devices compared to the average home user or business user. If you're moving between 4/5 classes per day and moving in crowded halls of people, then the warranty is probably more beneficial, especially considering that many likely can't afford the replacement cost mid-semester.
I generally avoid warranties completely. I seriously hate being asked for certain things, especially purchasing DS games (I've had cartridges survive washer/dryer cycles and being run over by a truck).
AppleCare is the only kind of extended warranty I have ever bought. I'm glad I did -- my Macbook Pro needed multiple repairs within the last few years, including logic board replacement. I'll buy AppleCare again for my upcoming MBP update.
have never bought any other warrantee either. but had a bad experience with my last pc laptop that could have been a black hole of wasted time and money if I'd decided to fix it.
Not to mention the lost time. If you enjoy tinkering, though, I guess you might just handle the problem yourself.
absolutely. And it has paid off royally. I've gotten my power plug thingy replaced twice and my hard drive replaced once and they also replaced the cracked keyboard surround thingy. Not a bad return for $250.
Personally, the peace of mind that things will be handled when something goes wrong is worth the extra $50 for two additional years. Thats just $2.50 a week, even if nothing were fixed.
When they fixed my hard drive, they installed the OS and I restored my data from time machine and I was back in business.
Figure out what your time is worth after taxes and then figure out how much time you would spend just trying to assess what the best course is to handle a problem. That cost is gone when you can just hand it to Apple and they return it to you whole.
I did buy it for mine. I am curious about the plan though. Lately, the temperature of my mbp has been going higher than I'm used to and I'd like to get it cleaned. Does anyone know if apple care covers that? Normally I'd do it myself but since I have the first gen of the non-replaceable battery, I don't know if the the warrantee terms will allow it.
Yes. Got fan replaced twice, battery once, keyboard components once because of weird sound. Also, I check it in every month for general cleaning and service.
Fan, keyboard and logic board failures are very common with Macs. Just google and see. I'd suggest you get AppleCare. But don't buy it at the time of purchase, you can wait 11 months and buy, sometimes you might end up changing the machine in less than a year, then AppleCare would be worthless.
Still doesn't necessarily make sense economically... most of those things are a cinch to replace yourself with a $10 electronics screwdriver set from Radioshack.
From iFixit.com, my model MBP:
Fan - $50
Battery - $100.
Keyboard - $85.
The logic board is probably a bit trickier, but I don't know how common those failures are (a Google search on any mass market device will show a lot of failures... .1% of a million is still 1000.)
For comparison, AppleCare on a MBP is currently $350, and covers an extra 2 years on the end of your complimentary 1 year.
EDIT: Looking at the absurd prices for replacement parts for a newer Unibody 17" (motherboard - $1000), I think it definitely makes sense there, unless you're the type to replace often.
Those replacements would be around $315 compared to $249 I paid for it. Also, more things can break. It also saved time.
If one has to do dollar-to-dollar comparison for $10/mo service, they aren't ready to buy a $1200 laptop.
Just because I can rip apart my laptop and can reapair it myself doesn't mean I shouldn't buy service which cover failure of it's components. That's like saying a doctor shouldn't buy medical insurance for his family.
Eh? $250 is a 20% premium on 1200. $10-15 per month is not insignificant for a service you are likely not to need.
Also, I was stating a case where 3 parts go bad on the laptop, which I think is pretty pessimistic - I've only had a fan go on my MBP, and that was under exceptional circumstances (my apartment was filled with very fine abrasive stone dust). It paid off for you, but as with all insurance plans, the odds were against it paying off for you, unless you are much riskier to insure than average.
Furthermore, I don't believe normal battery wear and tear is covered under applecare.
You're right. In my case, my battery was defective, it just blanked out one fine morning. :)
But I'd still press that some replacements for MacBooks are really out of proportion in terms of cost and one might regret not getting it. Namely - the logic board failures.
Usually, I don't. But my brother a year ago purchased a MacBook Pro, and, thanks to a somewhat paranoid mother, was pushed to purchase AppleCare. A year later, we were typing away at some cafe, and his screen turned white and the machine let out a long constant beep. We tried restarting, clearing various types of RAMs, etc, nothing worked. We took it in to the Apple store and they told us something had randomly given out, and that it could've been some sort of manufacturer's defect. The repair costs would've have added up to something around $800, but because of AppleCare, there was no charge. It was definitely worth it in that case.
Edit: Reading arihant's comment, I now remember that it was his logic board that gave out.
I was going to guess it was the logic board. The 2007/2008 MBP's are notorious for that. Same thing happened to me and my friend, but we both had to pay $330 to get it fixed.
I'm not making this up. Intern of mine spilled 32oz of soda on his mbp. He dumped as much out of his keyboard as he could but it wouldn't come back on the next day. You're not hiding that from Apple. His machine was on year 3 and had a few screen issues too. He figured he'd send it in under applecare and see what they said.
They fixed it. Replaced the keyboard, replaced the screen, replaced the trackpad. No questions asked and he had it back in less than a week.
Someone spilled wine on my 4-month-old, AppleCare-covered MacBook while it was being used for a live show. It stayed alive to the end of the show, then immediately died. Apple charged me $800 to have it fixed. I had to have it repaired twice again after that (both of those were free, since the previous two repairs had been wrong.) During and after that, the battery failed and needed replacement four times. The last time, the Apple Genius told me that batteries are not covered after the first year, so I would have to pay for it myself. He looked at the repair history on the laptop and had sympathy, and replaced it for free.
To this day, the laptop does not work correctly, even though every individual component has been replaced at least once. Also, they made a typo when setting the serial number on the motherboard, which I had to tell Apple each time I had it serviced, since it didn't match the one on my AppleCare plan (replaced a B with an 8.)
Of course, the laptop had been working fine until a drunk hipster dumped box wine all over it. I wish the repairs had been perfect and free, but they weren't. I've gone through a lot of Apple products over the years, and this is the only one where I've had problems. All of the ones before and after have been fine, and this one had been fine until the wine.
Anyway, this is just an anecdote. Don't expect your own fuckups to be covered under AppleCare. It's an extended warranty, not insurance. If the parent is telling the truth, then he's an exception, not the rule.
I figured that my story was the exception. But I just went in to get a new ipad replaced due to a bad rotation switch and I watched as they replaced a macbook that had water on it (they tested it and said they could tell) and they also replaced a little girl's ipod that she dropped in the bathtub.
I think it largely depends on who handles the call. I agree that it's not an insurance policy. I was just sharing my experience. I know from past experience that with my bad luck, they would never replace my macbook if I dumped stuff all over it :)
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[ 689 ms ] story [ 2360 ms ] threadThe MBP that replaced it has lived its entire life in a case.
But afaik, you can purchase AppleCare anytime within the first year (and not just at the time of purchase).
I've owned around 10 Macs in the last 15 years. Foregoing AppleCare has "saved" me over $2000, and the damage that would have been covered had I bought it is less than $500.
For example, I recently bought a comprehensive SquareTrade warranty for my Roomba because they priced it as a "vacuum cleaner", when in fact I know that the Roomba (a) an immature technology compared to most vacuums and (b) more likely to fall or be knocked down the stairs. I did the math and decided the odds of this thing dying or being killed in the first three years were greater than the warranty/purchase price ratio.
If you're worried it'll die, and you won't be able to afford to replace it, scale back. you can add ram later, you can improve the hd later.
I think you'll get more peace of mind by doing some math. Computers are the tools i use for work, so i tend to buy new ones fairly frequently. The odds of me using any given computer for more that 2 years are pretty low. So, how much of a hardship would it be to replace that earlier?
If it's really a budget stretch, you might think about moving to the cheaper end of the spectrum. What if it gets stolen? applecare is no help.
Also, the first 30 days come with applecare. Usually if hardware is going to die, it'll die quick. Flexing the motherboard for years will kill a laptop eventually, but meh.
Also if you buy with your American Express card, they cover up to an additional year of your original warranty.
RevA Apple products are guaranteed to die right after year 1, in my (limited && anecdotal) experience. I had to take in my Rev A Macbook when they just switched to intel 5 times, got the bezel & mother board replaced. So, if you're getting an iPad now or new gen macbooks, then yes.
In my case they have covered the repair of an iMac that broke a few months after their 'warranty' of one year expired. One of my interns, however, was refused support in a similar situation with a faulty PowerBook screen. His uncle, a lawyer, wrote some angry letters to Apple on his behalf, but if I remember correctly they decided that it wasn't worth the costs of going to court.
My thoughts are warranties/insurance are the following:
* If having to repurchase/cover the item would seriously hurt my financials, then I buy it (car insurance, rental insurance, etc are good examples).
* For everything else, I skip it.
I figure that by self-insuring, I come out ahead in the end. Sure, there's always some gadgets that fail past the end date of the manufacturers warranty. However, replacing those items tends to cost less than buying warranties for everything. Besides, if they fail past the manufacturer's warranty, there's usually some improved version of it I've been eying anyways.
That said, warranties are not always bad. In the specific case of students, I suspect the answer to "If having to repurchase/cover the item would seriously hurt my financials" is different for their situation than it is for mine. As such, it might make perfect sense for them to buy the warranty.
I mean, heck, my battery died after 2 years of usage and they replaced it for free. As a result, I've already "made" $20 off of it, and that's without any major repairs (which I've definitely had them do under AppleCare before).
Of course, my machine and maybe my TV ($50 for 3 years) are the only warranties I've purchased. I think I agree with your philosophy, but I don't think that's ever stopped me from buying a warranty on nearly anything.
I'm purchasing a 15" MBP (with education pricing) as soon as the back-to-school sale starts, and I'm pretty sure I'll get AppleCare.
Gateway warranties on the other hand, took my last laptop for 4 months to fix it.
I generally avoid warranties completely. I seriously hate being asked for certain things, especially purchasing DS games (I've had cartridges survive washer/dryer cycles and being run over by a truck).
Not to mention the lost time. If you enjoy tinkering, though, I guess you might just handle the problem yourself.
Personally, the peace of mind that things will be handled when something goes wrong is worth the extra $50 for two additional years. Thats just $2.50 a week, even if nothing were fixed.
When they fixed my hard drive, they installed the OS and I restored my data from time machine and I was back in business.
Figure out what your time is worth after taxes and then figure out how much time you would spend just trying to assess what the best course is to handle a problem. That cost is gone when you can just hand it to Apple and they return it to you whole.
Seems like a bad design. I notice they use a completely different mag-safe connector on the 24" cinema display and on the macbook air.
bad: http://imgur.com/TmRbu.jpg
good: http://imgur.com/9ciyo.jpg
yeah, that new design looks a lot more robust
http://www.notebookcheck.net/typo3temp/pics/d4598c4081.jpg
Fan, keyboard and logic board failures are very common with Macs. Just google and see. I'd suggest you get AppleCare. But don't buy it at the time of purchase, you can wait 11 months and buy, sometimes you might end up changing the machine in less than a year, then AppleCare would be worthless.
From iFixit.com, my model MBP: Fan - $50 Battery - $100. Keyboard - $85.
The logic board is probably a bit trickier, but I don't know how common those failures are (a Google search on any mass market device will show a lot of failures... .1% of a million is still 1000.)
For comparison, AppleCare on a MBP is currently $350, and covers an extra 2 years on the end of your complimentary 1 year.
EDIT: Looking at the absurd prices for replacement parts for a newer Unibody 17" (motherboard - $1000), I think it definitely makes sense there, unless you're the type to replace often.
If one has to do dollar-to-dollar comparison for $10/mo service, they aren't ready to buy a $1200 laptop.
Just because I can rip apart my laptop and can reapair it myself doesn't mean I shouldn't buy service which cover failure of it's components. That's like saying a doctor shouldn't buy medical insurance for his family.
Also, I was stating a case where 3 parts go bad on the laptop, which I think is pretty pessimistic - I've only had a fan go on my MBP, and that was under exceptional circumstances (my apartment was filled with very fine abrasive stone dust). It paid off for you, but as with all insurance plans, the odds were against it paying off for you, unless you are much riskier to insure than average.
Furthermore, I don't believe normal battery wear and tear is covered under applecare.
But I'd still press that some replacements for MacBooks are really out of proportion in terms of cost and one might regret not getting it. Namely - the logic board failures.
This could be an argument for Applecare, but it could also be an argument against buying a Mac.
Edit: Reading arihant's comment, I now remember that it was his logic board that gave out.
They fixed it. Replaced the keyboard, replaced the screen, replaced the trackpad. No questions asked and he had it back in less than a week.
I buy AppleCare because of that.
To this day, the laptop does not work correctly, even though every individual component has been replaced at least once. Also, they made a typo when setting the serial number on the motherboard, which I had to tell Apple each time I had it serviced, since it didn't match the one on my AppleCare plan (replaced a B with an 8.)
Of course, the laptop had been working fine until a drunk hipster dumped box wine all over it. I wish the repairs had been perfect and free, but they weren't. I've gone through a lot of Apple products over the years, and this is the only one where I've had problems. All of the ones before and after have been fine, and this one had been fine until the wine.
Anyway, this is just an anecdote. Don't expect your own fuckups to be covered under AppleCare. It's an extended warranty, not insurance. If the parent is telling the truth, then he's an exception, not the rule.
I think it largely depends on who handles the call. I agree that it's not an insurance policy. I was just sharing my experience. I know from past experience that with my bad luck, they would never replace my macbook if I dumped stuff all over it :)