Ask HN: How to receive payments from India for an international company?

10 points by danieltillett ↗ HN
Our B2B business has been getting a bit of traction in the Indian market of late (through no effort of mine), but it appears to be very hard for our Indian customers to actual pay us. We are based in Australia and have no Indian subsidiary. So far all I have found is wire transfers (which are a huge pain for smallish amount). It seems that almost all Indian credit cards can’t be used for international payments.

Has anyone else run into this problem and has anyone found any workable solution?

35 comments

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Can they pay in bitcoins?

Then you can convert them to cash at coinbase and alike exchanges right away.

I suppose in theory, but does anyone know of a reliable Indian bitcoin exchange that is easy for Indian businesses to use?

Edit. A quick check suggests this is a very expensive way to go given the price of bitcoins in India. Also to buy bitcoins in India you basically have to set up a bank account and go through the whole KYC process. This does not look like a low friction option for Indian companies.

Localbitcoins should allow you to buy BTC other than with a bank account.

https://localbitcoins.com/country/IN

This is not really a low friction or cheap solution.
Why not?
I answered it in the response to the OP. A wire transfer would be cheaper and have lower friction.
That's bullshit. Banks are the ones with the highest friction and fees.
The bitcoin spread is over 25% right now in India. That combined with the paperwork requirement needed for a business to buy bitcoins does not make for a low friction experience.
What paperwork do you need as a business to buy bitcoin?
Thanks to the RBI you need to go through the full KYC process - basically the same as setting up a business bank account. This in not low friction.
With banks you always go through KYC/AML, this is nothing to do with bitcoin, and everything to do with banks.
Well everything to do with the RBI regulations on bitcoin in India. The end outcome is that bitcoin is not a viable option to solve the India payment problem.
If your legal system is fucked, that's not bitcoin's fault.
Paypal should work. I routinely use Paypal to pay for international vendors. I know this is not the preferred option, but they are well integrated with our Indian banks. As far as I know, Stripe and other similar options don't work in India.

I also remember using Amazon payments a couple of years back but that was to pay an US provider not Australia, so your mileage may vary.

Are you sure PayPal works as we actually use PayPal as our payment processor for small payments and the Indian customers told me the payment would not go through? I have a feeling for it to work you have to have it linked to one of the tiny number of Indian credit cards that allow international payments.

Edit. This quora link suggests it is a known problem [1] and this link goes into more detail [2].

1. https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-make-international-payments...

2. https://www.isaumya.com/paypal-google-wallet-indian-debit-ca...

My bad, I do use the ICICI debit card but many nationalized banks dont support paypal. If it is so important to you could integrate a payment gateway into your app. Payment Gateways support all major banks. Here is a link to one. There are several PGs available. I am not sure if all of them support international merchants.

https://www.payubiz.in/international-merchant

Not a problem. From my investigations the Indian payment gateways can only deal with Indian companies.

The RBI certainly hates us :(

Hi Daniel, atleast the one I linked to above, support international merchants. See if their plan suits you.
Thanks Sharmi. I will investigate further. Anyone have any experience using this service?
Sharmi for you and anyone else reading this thread payubiz can only deal with Indian companies. Back to square one.
>The RBI certainly hates us :(

Not sure it is partly that or just that. Note: I'm not speaking to defend them as a knee-jerk reaction. There was and still is tons of unaccounted transactions in India (hence the recent cash demonetization, though it has caused lots of issues), and there is also the socialist background and mentality from Nehruvian days of gov't (from soon after independence for many decades, till the 90s), distrust of capitalism (both within and without the country, with a lot of justifications, considering colonialism and hoarding traders later). So there is some (sort of) logical background for all that. I remember reading and hearing (in person) stories from the previous two generations to me, about people going abroad for studies or work, about going to the States with 5 dollars in their pocket (likely exaggerated for effect, but may be a measly 100 or so), camping outside the RBI offices to ask for small amounts of foreign exchange, all sorts of stories. (Rich people taking ill-gotten and unaccounted money outside the country was also a reason for all those rules - so it makes some sort of sense, whether it worked very well or not.) Thing have improved some since them - but not perfect by a long chalk.

The RBI is actually staffed by some pretty well-educated people who tend to act in India's longer term interest - speaking purely as a layman here of course.

Your customers may need to speak with their banks if they haven't requested activation of their cards for international transactions, since the transactions may be flagged otherwise. This is a simple call; shouldn't take them more than 5-8 min depending on the bank.

In addition, 2-factor authentication (2FA; Verified by VISA; Mastercard Securecode) is mandatory for debit card based transactions. I don't think that's the case for credit cards, but I wouldn't be surprised if, in either case, banks decline to approve transactions from payment processors who don't support 2FA --> so perhaps this is something you could check with your payment processor?

paypal: Many banks in India don't allow transactions with Paypal (perhaps because of concerns of paypal's compliance with Indian banking guidelines), so Paypal is hit or miss.

This activation process is limited to a small number of cards only and I can’t find out any information if company credit/debit cards can be activated or just personal cards.

I surely can’t be the first business in history to run into this problem?

AFAIK, all credit cards should work directly - whether company or personal. So far as debit cards are concerned, to the best of my knowledge, such cards are issued to company/business accounts ONLY if the business is a sole proprietor type. If there are multiple people operating a business account, no debit cards are issued. Thus, a business account debit card is essentially the same as that of a personal account.

HTH

You can try asking State Bank of India and some of the large private sector Indian banks like HDFC and ICICI Bank. Googling will easily get you their sites and some links or emails via which to contact them.

I recently checked with my bank about paying vendors outside India via online methods, but that was for personal use, like buying small consumer items, not as a company. They did say it was possible. But if your clients in India are companies, you will have to check - the rules (and available methods of payment) are likely to be different for companies than for individuals.

Based on my first-hand experience:

1. Credit cards issued by ICICI Bank, HDFC Bank and AXIX Bank work directly for international payments (been using all 3 for over a decade now)

2. ICICI Bank and HDFC Bank Debit cards also work for international payments, but not by default. The card holder has to call up the bank to activate international payment facility - a quick and simple process.

Let me know if there is any other specific info that I can provide.

HTH.

Is this for business credit and debit cards? It is hard to find information what regulation are on these cards and if they are treated differently to personal cards.
The ones I've been using (as mentioned in my previous comment) are all personal cards, both credit and debit. While I don't have any first-hand info on business cards vis-a-vis international payments, I believe they should work the same way as the personal ones.
It is amazingly hard to get any information from anyone on this topic. I find it hard to believe that there are no other companies outside of India that have ever had to solve this problem :(
First hand experience. Personal cards (incl corporate cards) both debit and credit issued by ICICI and AMEX always worked internationally without a problem.

My SBI corporate card needed to be "activated" before international travel. It was NOT a Bank policy or Govt policy but something that the finance/accounts dept instructs bank to do to reduce risk of fraud (its nonsense, but there it is).

For all cards, it's between bank and customer. All AMEX and Most (all?) Visa/MasterCard should work internationally.

I am glad to hear that corporate cards can also be activated. It looks like the best option is far is provide customers with a guide on how to activate their cards. Still pretty high friction, but at least it is a viable solution.
>It is amazingly hard to get any information from anyone on this topic.

Truer words have seldom been written before.

What you might find even more amazing is the fact that almost ALL bank staffers are equally ignorant/in the dark about online/international payments. Case in point: I have had a Corporation Bank account of which the debit card just wouldn't work for online payments. Sometime ago, a niece opened an account with them (at a different branch). Shortly afterwards, she needed to make an international payment. On checking with the branch, she was told it (the debit card) wouldn't work. She thought of trying anyway and guess what - it DID work!! On coming to know this, I asked my branch - they said no idea. Next, I asked her branch - the same answer. I had also had a similar experience with ICICI bank debit card, that wouldn't work. After a good bit of struggle calling back and forth and personal visits to the branch, I learnt that their older debit cards won't work, but they do have a newer 'Chip and Pin' version that would work. After getting this (new) card, I've been able to use it without a problem (with 2FA).

HTH

I use Paypal
Yes PayPal works if you have it linked to a credit/debit card that allows international payments. The problem in only a small percentage of Indian cards are able to be used to make international payments.