If you could pick one place or city in the world where you'd live and work (software dev) for the next 10 years. Where would it be? And why would you pick that place?
Barcelona, best beaches with a fantastic city as a backdrop. One of the best City's in the world. Great food, great nightlife, amazing vibe in general.
Well, where the cost of living is cheap, the salaries will follow as well (or the other way around). Unless you work with a company in Barcelona and live somewhere else, you're not gonna be poor (money-wise) as a developer there.
The point is that corporations practice geo-arbitrage all the time, and you'd have to be a fool not to do it as well. Those $200k salaries are probably not going to last forever, and it makes sense to maximize your earnings while you can. For that reason, I wouldn't settle for a 40k EUR salary (especially in a state where 50% of that will go toward failed social policies).
In case one is more location- than salary- driven, i.e. wants to live in a non-ugly European city with decent infrastructure and human living costs (not where fast-food pizza costs EUR 20) the salary EUR 40k (gross, annual) would be considered a really good deal. Some remote companies let the employee to choose the location but in this case they adjust the salary to local market... and yeah the fact of very high social contributions in some EU countries on failed social policies and with indistinct perspective of getting something out of it in the future is really soul-sucking.
I liked the beach vibe, but the actual beaches in comparison to some are sort of "meh." That said, the BCN mix of options puts it in my top 3 cities in the world easily.
Culture yes, but depending on the company, the working environment is not that awesome :p Also it's very easy to feel isolated as a foreigner and seeing thousands of people squishing themselves into the trains every morning doesn't make it better.
Though the startup scene here is changing very strongly and bigger companies from all over the world open offices here and consider Japan as the 'gateway into the asian market'.
Give it a try! The dream of moving to Japan is really not that difficult, especially if you're doing IT.
it's very easy to feel isolated as a foreigner and seeing thousands of people squishing themselves into the trains every morning doesn't make it better.
I'm here now, have been for six months (on sabbatical; studying Japanese half-time). It's interesting...sometimes I feel isolated (as anyone would when you don't speak or read the language fluently), but folks here have been quite friendly and supportive. I've found it easier to make friends here than in SF (where I've lived for eight years). Inasmuch as you can generalize an entire country, people here are forgiving and curious and friendly...just shy/introverted and overworked.
The foreign people who do best here seem to be the folks who are a) at least a little bit outgoing and well-adjusted, and b) don't have unrealistic prior expectations of what "Japan" is. So many weirdo, socially isolated expats come here expecting one long manga/anime/kawaii/samurai adventure that will fix their broken lives, and they're disappointed to find a country of normal people who work hard, have families and lives, and mostly don't do any of those things.
Love the food and the baths and the transit though. Wish they would adopt insulation. And decent cheese.
Let me elaborate on the isolated part a bit maybe.
I speak almost fluent Japanese but the problem comes more in the very strong cultural difference that you are mostly not even aware of unless you are indeed fluent and surrounded by people that tell you your mistakes (which doesn't happen often).
It is (IMO) very hard to make 'good' Japanese friends (not talking about occasional drinking buddies). People seem nice but (especially in Tokyo) often don't tell you what they really think or feel. Being direct and honest about certain things is just not the way things are done here, that starts already at the language level and why you would rather say that something is difficult than not possible (それは難しいです・・・, pretty sure you heard that already a few times.)
Being direct as a foreigner and speaking in a direct way can work but is thus because of the difference in talking and nuance further isolating you and giving you the 'foreigner / 外人' stamp on your forehead, maybe without you really realizing that it's happening. A side-effect of that is that you get considered as, well, a foreigner. Maybe someone who is fun and weird to hang out with but not actually someone who could become a deep friend.
Then of course you have the other group of people that are strangely open and direct to you, but more than often that's the kind of people that only want a foreign boyfriend or someone to practice english with and nothing else.
Sure, everyone is indeed very very friendly and supportive but that can easily be confused with the polite nature that's rooted deeply in this country. That can also come over as shy and introverted, but if the majority of the people comes over as shy and introverted it's maybe not the people that's different but rather you.
Not saying at all that it's bad here. I am still really enjoying my time with a rough 4 years in total but it definitely depends if you want to be fully integrated or always wear that foreigner hat.
>Sure, everyone is indeed very very friendly and supportive but that can easily be confused with the polite nature that's rooted deeply in this country.
I have a Japanese wife and quasi-lived in Japan for a few months doing remote work, and the tatemae part is quite isolating. People are extremely friendly but there is a certain mask-like thing to it - it's very hard to describe. Politeness, but often it's politeness without warmth?
Yep, I'm familiar with everything you're saying. You definitely don't need language fluency to know that you're being treated differently...just time, and a bit of social awareness. They aren't particularly subtle about it. But in my experience, this is also true of any place where your foreignness is advertised by your skin color or facial structure or height or whatever -- you're just going to be treated like a stranger, because, well, you are one.
I've met a fair number of long-term expats now, and there's a group who have taken this personally, and now have a complex about never being "truly accepted"; then there are the ones who have embraced their otherness. Those latter folks are totally aware they're different, and they just decide that they're going to be themselves, but in Japan. They seem to get along quite well. I've met foreigners who run businesses, many who are married, and even a few who are involved in local government, organizing matsuri, and so on.
Anyway, I'm not suggesting that it's easy, or that I'm in that latter group. I'm just saying that I've seen it, and it's possible, and that it seems to come most readily when you know and accept where you stand.
(Also...for the record, I've heard this exact complaint from expats in every country I've ever visited, including Europe. I was once considering moving to the Netherlands, and I had a dozen lily-white expats telling me that the Dutch are great and friendly and incredibly polite, but it's just impossible to make native friends. So it's not just Japanese people.)
> but it's just impossible to make native friends. So it's not just Japanese people
This is sort of a "bubble" problem. Dutch people that are "settled" already have a loyal circle of friends and are not always looking to make more friends. There's also the problem that expats usually work in demanding jobs with lots of competition and not a lot free time. It's hard to make friends that way, especially if half of your colleagues are rushing to daycare to pick up their kids.
If you were able to move out of that bubble, to a less populous / competitive area, you might find much more laid back people.
"This is sort of a "bubble" problem. Dutch people that are "settled" already have a loyal circle of friends and are not always looking to make more friends."
This is always true, everywhere. Long-time residents of a place have a network of friends/family that newcomers don't have. It's not unique to the Dutch or the Japanese.
This brings up a point I forgot: most expats are young, and have zero experience making friends outside of the social bubble of school. This is hard enough if you're just moving in your own country, but it's worse if you're moving to a place where you don't speak the language well. This is probably a source of a lot of the complaints about cultures being especially closed or unfriendly.
> ocially isolated expats come here expecting one long manga/anime/kawaii/samurai adventure that will fix their broken lives
Well I guess I'm somewhat inside that niche, however I would not expect my broken live to be fixed without any effort.
Also before going there, I would probably learn japanese or make holiday there.
Well I'm not good at getting friends and I doubt that neither in japan I would make many. I just love their culture and their food (at least some, katsudon <3 and other dishes).
I also actually are a big fan of buildins and history, which japan has a lot.
I also heard that they have a special work mentality (which you also described). And somehow if my work is good I love it, which makes me like the longer working hours. For me that make's me more happy than actually making friends (I know I'm a wierdo) and somehow I think japan would be a whole new challenge for me. But as already stated I doubt I couldn't be there for more than 6 months to 1 year.
I still love my home besides the fact that I live in a small town in Germany which is nothing compared to the SF area or any japanese town.
Edit: Great comments from a lot of people, Thanks that makes me actually more engaged to make savings to visit Japan at least once in my life.
I just got my visa for 1 year running a company here. I setup the company to be distributed. I am based in Tokyo. I can say despite not speaking the language it was the best decision I have ever made. Both locals and expats are friendly. If you are going to do business here it is best to have someone on your team who speaks the language though.
Another big reason I love it here is how safe it is. After having lived in SF for a few years, there's a lot to be said for that.
Re: being difficult. I would disagree. Moving to Japan and dealing with immigration took me 4 months and multiple lawyers. The bureaucracy is real.
Are you talking about the normal startup visa here that's valid for 1 year? I wasn't aware that it's this annoying to get. From my understanding, you have to hand in the papers (with a basic business plan), incorporate your company and after a year, proof that you indeed make money.
For all other visas you just need a sponsor (company) / proof that you can make money as a freelancer and, well, a university degree.
Japan might even be one of the only countries that effectively lets you skip the university degree (and 10 years of work experience) requirement with the right certificate that should be no problem to get if you know your computer science basics
I did an intra company transfer with an already existing subsidiary. In our case we are venture funded with a seed round in the millions. The devil here is in the details.
Mind if I ask why? I've visited a few times recently to see friends there and each time I go, I feel more and more drawn to the area. Love the accessible and amazing hiking, etc, and tech scene seems decent enough. Would love to hear a counterpoint though.
I live in Boulder too, and I would rate Boulder 8 out of 10. There is good vibe, nice people, lots of bike paths and lots of places to go during the spring and summer time, but for some reason the ladies here are kind of stuck up, and to work in Boulder you need to be a superhero or close to that.
I moved to Denver about a year ago. It's all subjective of course, but I really struggle to understand the benefits of living in Boulder outside of a more vibrant tech scene and being a nice cozy town. The rent is ~$300-$400 more expensive. The trails are absolutely packed with people. There is beer pong and loud parties on every corner in the summer. Yes, it's a little closer to skiing resorts, but we're talking extra 20 minutes. Yet, whenever I talk to folks there they seem to enjoy it while I can't help but feel out of place surrounded by college kids everywhere.
If you aren't on the hill or a in a tiny handful of bars on Pearl, you never run into the college kids. They mostly stay south of the creek, with the exception of the dive bars on Pearl (and Absinthe House, but that place is a dump anyways).
I've lived here for three years, go out every weekend and never once have I seen anyone playing beer pong.
I don't think anything in Denver or Boulder stacks up to astronomical prices of the Bay Area. You can easily get a nice house 20 minutes from Denver for $300K. If you're looking in Denver proper, you're looking at $500K-$1M+ (Cherry Creek or similar). But you get much much more bang for your buck (we're talking a nice house). A $1M property in SF is like, what, some land with a dilapidated property? Boulder's housing market is going to be significantly more expensive. I'm only familiar with rent prices there. Maybe somebody else can comment on the housing market. But again, I don't think it's anywhere close to the Bay Area prices. At least not in terms of what you get for the same money.
Boulder has more tech jobs. There are big guys like Twitter, Google and a gazillion of startups like VictorOps and SendGrid. Denver's lacking but I don't think it's too far behind. The fun stuff is pretty much all in Boulder though. Maybe the current construction boom will change that a bit.
I can't comment on salaries. I work remotely for a company that isn't in Denver, but I can just say you can live lavishly here if you make $120K+. And if you have some money to burn, it's a perfect time to invest in some property. The entire Denver area is under construction right now.
I don't agree with this comment at all, "the trails are packed?" WTF, "beer pong and loud parties on every corner"? And no, is not closer to skiing resorts, there are way too many other towns closer to skiing resorts. I don't even know what city is this dude talking about, maybe some place in new york or california. I've lived in Boulder for about 10 years, and I've never seen anything like that.
Tel Aviv is fantastic - great vibes, good weather year-round, awesome tech scene.
Cost of living is relatively high - a 1 br apartment in a central location can rent for $1500. High salaries offset that, though.
I hear the settlements are beautiful this time of the year. Seriously though, it looks like an interesting place and quite polarized in many ways, I might be wrong.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but why wouldn't this apply to the US, for example? Sunny with a chance of drone strike and subsequent white wash, for example. Have you followed the elections lately? Or the riots in various cities? Or the record-breaking murder rate in Chicago.
Was looking for this. Beaches, babes, beer (including craft options), sunny and warm nine months out of the year, flat and easily bikeable, nature and history are relatively close, relatively fast Internet for relatively cheap, booming tech scene with high salaries relative to the local cost of living, work-life balance when everything shuts down on Saturdays, great nightlife options, great food with a great sport/running/fitness subculture, most people speak English at least proficiently if not fluently. What else does a developer in his 20's and 30's want?
If I had to complain about something it's that I find Israelis to be relatively clique-ish, the postal service sucks, and the light rail isn't finished yet. OK, so there are no utopias.
Tel Aviv is a greatly underpublicized and underrated gem of a city, probably due to politics, which is sad because politics/the conflict has virtually no effect on day-to-day life here, and because it's difficult to get a work visa if you aren't Jewish, but that's slowly changing since the army and academia are only producing about half the amount of qualified/credentialed/experienced labor the tech sector needs every year and it's now impacting the growth of what's now the most important sector of the economy, and both are already relatively huge compared to other Western countries, so it's not like the government could expand the military or academia further in order to get more labor, and it's starting to warm to the idea of allowing more non-Jewish immigration to compensate.
Switzerland. Strong economy, often considered one of the happiest countries in the world [1], considerate culture, and lots of natural geographic beauty.
That's weird, I remember talking with a swiss person and he told me that the country is beautiful and usually population is pretty intelligent but they also have a high suicide rate.
True that! Moved here from Germany in may working as a backend developer. The people are awesome and once you get used to the language it just feels like home :))
1. In which area of Switzerland did you move?
2. Which languages should you know besides english?
3. How did you find the job: online, recommendation?
4. Did you move with family or alone?
5. How many years of experience did you have?
2. English is enough for working in IT. Live gets a lot easier if you know German in German-speaking Switzerland, French in western Switzerland or Italian in Tessin (southern Switzerland)
3. I searched online and was approached by Hays. Then I had three interviews with three offers and took the best fit.
4. I moved alone but my girlfriend already lived here which made it easier of course
5. 10 years in total, 1.5 years as project manager in an agency, 8 years in a big utilities company. Had a side business for web development since 2009.
Looking back I would say getting that job was even easier than finding a new job in Germany. Developers are searched for so you can easily apply to open vacancies even if they do not explicitly search for foreigners. I can recommend jobs.ch as a source for jobs.
Thanks for your answer, @sawmurai. For me, the western part would be a better fit since I already have some working experience with french language. I would have to move with my girlfriend who is in the insurance business, so I guess Geneva would be a good fit for her as well
Apparently the costs are very, very high, though, and renting a flat is really hard (owners want your bank balance/history). At least that's what some friends who moved to Geneva told me.
You don't have to move into Geneva, of course. The train system is wonderful, as much as I've heard, and the cities are not bloated like in European countries in general. You can find work in cantonal capitals and in their vicinity, even remote/partial remote.
True, the net rent is higher. But look at it this way: in Germany rent was 30% of my net income, in Zurich it is less than 20% (though it would be closer to 30% if I lived by myself)
I live in the western part of Switzerland, not far from Geneva.
I think you've possibly misunderstood what you have been told by your friends - you don't need to show your bank balance to a landlord. However, it is true that you have to apply with a dossier of files as specified by the agency or landlord and you can expect these to contain a copy of your contract (and so your salary) and also a statement from the local debt/claims agency (best English approximation I can think of for "office de poursuites/Betreibungs- und Konkursämtern") attesting to the fact you do not have any outstanding claims against you. It is unlikely as a foreigner that you will.
However the essence of what you were told is correct - there is a lot of demand for apartments in Geneva and Zürich. The occupancy rate is well over 99%. It is less a case of searching for the flat you like and applying than applying for many apartments and hoping you are chosen by the landlord.
As a foreigner on a work visa, is it possible to operate a side business in Switzerland? I would be very grateful if you could explain how to make it work from a visa / taxes perspective. Did you incorporate your side business, and if yes, where?
oh sorry, I meant I had the side business back in Germany. I terminated it when I emigrated because none of my German customers would be willing to pay Swiss rates ^^. But I think it should be no problem to have one as long as your employer is fine with it and you work less than 45h per week (your normal job will probably be 42h/week).
The easiest way is to run your side business as a sole proprietorship company. You only will need to get a AHV number [1]. To get this number you have to prove the AHV that you are not fictitiously self-employed [2]. This will require invoices from at three (or more of course) different customers. A recurring payment like eg. from an Adsense account should be sufficient also. If you have this number you can fill out your tax formulas and conduct all expenses of your side business [3].
[1] If you have a work visa you already should have a AHV number.
[2] If you would work as a "freelancer" for only one customer it will look like your "employer" just want to avoid to pay into the social system.
[3] Your sole proprietorship company should be profitable after about 5 years.
Yes it's a good place to live. But...Industry is mostly composed of banks,insurance companies, basically a financial sector.
Meaning : OLD LEGACY CRAP.
Also a little bit boring and if you are not a "german" speaking person you will always feel unwelcome.
I found it to be amazingly expensive (I was there in 2013) but a phenomenal place to explore. Made amazing friends and loved the city but don't miss the $44 burritos.
I didn't live there but I did travel for work. Totally common to get stuck with a $50-70 bill for lunch. And, like a lot of places in Europe, getting charged for a pitcher of tap water is really off-putting to Americans. Geneva was by far the worst place I have ever been for charging for water.
Switzerland as well. Economic and social stability for 200 years, while also neutral and not getting involved in wars around the globe. That means no acts of terror either. Also not part of the EU with all its baggage, while part of the trade union (for now). Hills, valleys lakes and wilderness, along with remote work in Alpine villages with broadband cable net. Europe is also just around the corner, if you ever want to go shopping in Cognac, the Mediterranean or whatever strikes your fancy.
Seoul. The city is so damn modern and the energy of Korea is amazing. It's so easy to get dragged into the fast-paced, high-energy lifestyle just by being exposed to other people long enough.
Transportation is cheap, it's very easy to reach other places in Asia and Korean people are very friendly (IMO).
If you like technology and shiny new things, Korea is definitely the place to be.
Absolutely. I would not say Korea is a good place to be in as a developer.
Mostly dominated by Korean corps. Some companies started my foreign ethnic koreans. They are good and nice places but pay is ...mediocre.
Koreans are also a bit racist but if you do not mind it's fine.
sure, it's no Silicon Valley but you can get decent/well paid jobs with a bit of trying. My salary was even slightly better than what I made in Germany before
I studied abroad in Korea and asked about expected salaries for SE from the Korean CS Dept. They said 60k would be incredibly high and 30-40 would be normal. That is also in million won which doesn't translate perfectly to a dollar, actually less.
However, if you are working remote you could probably be taking in a nice US salary and live very very well. 100k and you'd live like a king/queen there.
It's definitely easier if you speak the language. Koreans don't really hold your hand and tend to bombard you with long, fast-spoken sentences even if you try to explain that you don't speak the language :p At the same time it's very easy to make friends that don't mind giving their broken english a try in order to make a conversation with you.
I am not fluent in Korean (still very far from becoming) but still consider Seoul as one of my favorite cities (if not my favorite) period
Once you can read/speak (not necessarily understanding much) then you can get around pretty well. The translation apps are really good and I didn't find myself using them often. I found young Korean people to be pretty good at English with decreasing ability up through the ages.
Any recommendations for developer jobs in Korea? Working at a Korean company and thus in their working culture (long hours, treated like a slave by higher-ups) and low developer pay is not recommended from what I hear.
Yeah that's the tricky part. You can subscribe to job alerts on stackoverflow careers and linkedin and hope for something to pop up. Alternatively I would say find a remote contract job and do that for a few months while being in Seoul. Go to local startup meetups and you will almost certainly find something nice as your first stepping stone
Silicon Valley. High pay compared to where I stay. Companies based at Silicon Valley are working on interesting products. Developers in South Africa with University degree and 10 years experience and higher, earn less than $100k per annum. No startups working on interesting products here in SA also. You are stuck with big banks if you want to make money.
my $0.02 on this is you can work in SV for 6-12 mo, then if you play your cards right, you can transition into a remote role with your current employer. Myself and other friends have done this resulting in 6-fig salary anywhere we want to live.
this ^. to add: Identifying a good company is also key. I work for a small startup and am currently the only senior backend developer. I think being 20% of the company and 100% of the backend helped my situation.
If you got a job at a large tech company, I suspect many wouldn't be as flexible. If you want to work for a large tech company, I would find out if they have any current remote workers.
I'm a NYC native who spent some time in San Diego for work. I was just reminiscing about the weather there. I spent many weeks there over the course of a year and had nothing but perfect weather to contend with. And the food was great.
I'm not sure I could live there, however. The downtown area is limited and a little run down. It also seems like you have to drive everywhere. The salaries don't reflect the cost of living. The IT market was a little anemic, but remote work could make these last points moot.
For the last four years I've been in Cambodia, which I will always return to as a home base. But in the future I'm also interested in extended stays in Uruguay, Iceland, Czech Republic, Finland, Mongolia, Laos, and a few others.
I felt like I was stagnating in the US. I wanted to pursue computer programming but I didn't study it in college and didn't quite have the skill set to succeed professionally at that point. My original plan was to buy a van, drive around warm parts of the US, and live cheaply while I studied for a year or so. Then I realized that I would have a lot more runway if I went abroad. Three weeks later (on the day of my 25th birthday) I was in Cambodia... for absolutely no planning whatsoever things have turned out very well. While low cost of living was originally the main reason I chose to live here, now there are many things that would make it hard for me to go anywhere else. I have become a different person here and living a very simple lifestyle (80$ per month apartment in an ultra densely populated neighborhood, no hot water, no AC, no TV, walking everywhere, eating only healthy food, exercising daily, etc.) has fixed most of my numerous neuroses :)
Thats very interesting. I am currently in cambodia (siem reap heading to battambang tomorrow) and my frist impression is that this is not suited well for online workers. But the last part of your comment explains it. For me its really hard right now to let away some luruxy i am used too. Kudos!
The enormous hassle for me is transferring money in and out of the country. My internet service in Phnom Penh is fairly steady fortunately. Let me know if you need any advice, translations, or whatever while traveling!
I was surprised to see that half of the banks dont accept mastercard and half of the rest was somehow out of service. I can imagine there is quite a banking hassle. Thanks for the offer. Maybe i need to come back to it, but so far everything is nice (except the internet, where both 4G and the hotel Wifi fail every other hour).
From all the interesting dishes, what do i have to try?
Try all of the exotic fruits. Salak, jackfruit, sapodillas, dragonfruit, rambutan, mangosteen, durian, custard apples, and whatever else you find. Any of the familiar fruits are especially good here too (there are many types of bananas and mangoes here, for example, that taste different from any that I had eaten before). There are also fruits that I only know the Khmer names of -- /pɲiev/, /lɔŋkɔŋ/ -- that are very good and also unusual tasting (they both look like longans).
I like a lot of Khmer food but tend toward simple vegetable-heavy stir fries with okra, kale, bamboo, lotus stems, water spinach, etc. Rice porridge is very common here and usually includes bean sprouts and coagulated cow's blood plus added lime / pepper / chili (the cow's blood is great, but chicken blood tastes terrible IMO). I also eat grilled fish and grilled chicken skin on a near daily basis.
It hasn't caught on here much and not many freelance employers offer payment in Bitcoin anyway. Most of the time it's Paypal, which you can't even access online in Cambodia. I have to have my dad log on to my Paypal account from the US, transfer the money to my US bank account, then either bite the bullet on the international ATM fees or do a wire transfer to my bank account here. The fees add up as you can imagine, especially if you find freelance work through some place like Upwork, who then take their own massive cut. It would be amazing if cryptocurrencies caught on, many hundreds of millions of people would benefit greatly from that. It would also be amazing if I had not spent the 400 or so Bitcoin that were once in my possession ;)
There are websites like Upwork which only work with cryptocurrencies.
For the existing employers, you could offer your employers a discount on your rate if they use bitcoin (or rather, ask them for a surplus percentage if they don't ;) ).
These two are nice places indeed. But salaries there are so low and in Cordoba there are not many IT jobs so unless you are going to work remotely I wouldn't go there.
+1 for Granada. Probably my favourite place I've visited to date, but the job market doesn't sound great. If you can get a remote gig though, what a place to live.
My business goes where I go, so all I need is a stable internet connection.
The really difficult problem for us Americans is staying in the EU for an extended period of time (90 of every 180 days only).
Other options I'm inclined to try: Santiago in Chile, and maybe one or two of the smaller tiny towns dotting the Chilean coast as you head south to Patagonia.
Victoria, BC, Canada. Fantastic food, great lifestyle, amazing scenery, close to 2 big cities (Vancouver, Seattle), best weather in Canada, a growing technology industry...
The only downside is that in 10-20 years it will probably become overcrowded.
Montreal in the summer is really incredible. It feels like a big city with all of the amenities. I've never been there during the winter, but thought of several feet of snow makes me not want to live there.
Been there only once for a couple weeks, but it's the best city ever, hands down. A hub of many industries and the urbanite heaven. Having visited many of the usual suspects referred in this thread plus some, nothing compares really.
Believe me I don't mean this with any offense and condescension. But you do need to live in NYC for a few years to decide. Most who do this will end up leaving, but some really love it and give 100% effort to never leave it. I would say it really depends on your job/career here. Good place to try either way and it will open one's eyes and also help one figure out what they want in life.
No doubt true, but same stands for about any megalopolis out there. In the end it's up if the place has right chemistry for you, and yes, if you can support the lifestyle to match. There's little point to live in NYC outside of Manhattan ;)
No, my point is that it's not worth moving to NYC just to live in Queens. You can live purposeful life even in Aleppo, that isn't what the thread is about.
I recently moved to Vilnius, Lithuania, mainly because I have friends and family (my wife) here. There is quite a good local tech scene (for the size of the city), but I work remotely as the pay is higher and I don't like offices.
Compared to other EU countries it is relatively cheap, but still has a pretty good quality of life. I'd say if you are earning a western salary, as long as you like winter, you can have a better quality of life than living somewhere like the UK (where I'm from).
There are direct flights to most European capitals, so if you want to work semi-remote that's an option too. There are lots of lakes and it's not too warm (max 35c for a few days a year), so it's nice to chill out here in the summer.
Vancouver, BC. Supernatural beauty. Immediate access to incredible outdoors. Great food and cafe scene. Fantastic arts and music scene. Clean. One of the greenest (carbon footprint) cities in the world. Fantastic transit system. Fast growing technology sector. + all the benefits that come with being a Canadian city.
As an immigrant living in Toronto, I would say people. I have never been to states, so you can tell me if i'm wrong or not but Canadian people are really helpful, polite and courteous. You don't notice it till you go out of Canada. Also as a brown person, i have never had a single incident of Racism here.
I've been to both Vancouver and the states, and people were helpful in both places. Vancouver felt more European than, say, LA or NYC, though, it was much more relaxed.
Access to guns is extremely restricted. Canada is the second largest country by land mass, and thus police protection is not readily available at all times. In these cases, and others where protection of life is concerned, hand guns and other firearms may be authorized. There should be no instance where a common civilian is issued a hand gun or the authority to do concealed carrying. I've been in Canada my whole life, the only guns I've seen are on the hips of police officers (they all carry tazers as well as a first line of defence) and held by armoured vehicle occupants. I have seen one hunting rifle, but you'd have a hard time carrying that around in public. Permits must be readily accessible at all times while in possession of a firearm.
It's not that big of a deal to get a gun in Canada. It's easier and faster to get a firearms license (weekend safety course) than it is to get a driving license. People don't feel like it's a big burden to carry their driving license when driving either. Canada just doesn't have that big of a gun culture is really the main difference, and if people have guns they don't really talk about it. For example, my father had a few hunting guns since forever and I didn't even realize until 10 years after he bought it!
I also have lived in Seattle and SF for 5+ years, and like Canada you never see anybody but the police carrying guns around. Worrying about gun violence in the USA is fear mongering, you should still be far more worried about motor vehicles.
Also CC license people have much lower rates of gun violence and crime than the general population, it's not those people you have to worry about.
I grew up there and it really is great. Unfortunately housing prices have gone through the stratosphere and I'm 'stuck' in Seattle which although having a stronger tech presence, hasn't been hit as hard by the Chinese invasion.
According to the census conducted in 2016, Vancouver has 603,502 people. In all of 2016, there were 67 murders, up from 60 the year before.
Vancouver is truly a beautiful city, with a fairly low crime rate considering it's the 3rd largest Canadian city. A good place to work, a great place to raise a family.
The only drawback if you are working in an international firm is that we are one of the last time zones to conduct business in. Be prepared for 5am or 6am teleconferences with Europe, and 10pm calls with Asia.
I moved away from Vancouver because of the cost of living : income ratio there. Seattle is basically identical, but housing is cheaper and pay is better for software people. And they are about 2 hours away from each other.
Well, it depends. Do I have a remote job with all of the computational resources and salary I could possibly want? Then Asheville, North Carolina. Beautiful scenery, great food, plenty of high quality coffee shops, and close to family.
If "close to family" wasn't a factor then: San Francisco, Seattle, Lyon (France), Barcelona, and London (for a little while).
It's hard to beat the benefits of the massive tech ecosystem in SF. It would be nice if some of that ecosystem moved to the South. Chattanooga and Nashville are nice cities that I wouldn't mind living in either.
Lived in Nashville for three years, fantastic city, lots of big city comforts in a navigable and manageable size, although I know it's going through some rapid expansion.
As a southerner who has moved West, I contend that the South needs to fix a huge amount of its culture before there will be the thriving mix of industry and creativity you can find in cities like SF, Seattle, and Boston. Let's not forget that the south has not been the engine of the American economy since slavery was (de jure) abolished.
The South's peculiar mix of dominionism and right-wing fervor makes strange bedfellows of fundamentalists and rapacious capitalists. Low taxes starve infrastructure and the social safety net, and those are what drives stability. Without stability, entrepreneurialism cannot happen. Without entrepreneurialism, the closest you get are places like Austin and RTP: big, established companies moving people for tax reasons that does nothing to foster innovation.
Atlanta really should be the next big tech hub, but it won't be so long as the regressive politics and systemic racism of the south remain unaddressed. Charlotte would be great except that things like HB2 make the prospect of moving to NC a complete nonstarter for many in the already-marginalized LGBTQ population. The list goes on.
I definitely appreciate your perspective on the South in general. But I'm a westerner who has lived in Atlanta for a number of years. The gentrification and densification of Atlanta's inner neighborhoods is unlike anything I've seen elsewhere. I'm curious why you think Georgia will hold Atlanta back from further success, instead of Atlanta dragging Georgia kicking and screaming forward. As of 20 years ago I think nobody imagined the progress Atlanta would make.
Seconded. Hiroshima is a beautiful town. Small enough to be walkable and large enough to be culturally vibrant. It has lots of water and great bicycling. And even more (!) history than most Japanese cities.
Out of all the places I visited in Japan earlier this year, Hiroshima is the one where I'd happily live. Well, if we forget about the working culture and the language barrier... :)
Hong Kong. I love the food, culture, and fantastic public transportation. It has a nice mix of Asian and British influences. The city has tons of energy and is always alive. Plus, despite being a huge metropolis, there are tons of hiking opportunities nearby in beautiful natural areas.
Unfortunately I'm not alone in loving it so real estate is crazy expensive (even more so than NYC/SF).
I'm living in HK myself. Haven't been to SF but I think, while I agree HK prices for apartments are ludicrously expensive, I don't think they reach the rate of SF, from what I've compared.
Hong Kong has the second most expensive real estate in the world, per square foot. [0]
That being said, HKers have done a better job of adjusting to this by making (tiny) apartments available whereas in SF you're forced to pay more for a bigger space.
Food, public transportation, beach, hiking in HK are good. But housing in HK is super expensive. You can't find a room in any other cities smaller than HK. People feel desperate because of the super expensive housing. The city's economy is kidnapped by real estate. I am living in HK and thinking about leaving.
SF, Oakland, or Berkeley. My family and friends are in the Bay Area. The weather is nearly unparalleled. The food variety is solid. Transit is not that bad, if you compare the cities I mentioned to the rest of the US.
I guess the tech scene is decent, but the other factors I mentioned mean a lot more to me. (I would almost prefer it if the area weren't as much of a hotspot, actually...)
And your school, and your supermarket, and the good restaurants, and everything. I don't think many people who live in LA would argue that you have to drive for hours to get anywhere in the city.
I lived in west LA and I managed to find a place walking distance from restaurants and a supermarket, and one short bus ride to Malibu/Venice. It is doable.
For me, that place was Texas. I finally made the move to Dallas and my fiancée and I couldn't be happier. Great weather, great cost of living, great economy, great driving and great people.
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[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 320 ms ] threadI liked the beach vibe, but the actual beaches in comparison to some are sort of "meh." That said, the BCN mix of options puts it in my top 3 cities in the world easily.
Though the startup scene here is changing very strongly and bigger companies from all over the world open offices here and consider Japan as the 'gateway into the asian market'.
Give it a try! The dream of moving to Japan is really not that difficult, especially if you're doing IT.
I'm here now, have been for six months (on sabbatical; studying Japanese half-time). It's interesting...sometimes I feel isolated (as anyone would when you don't speak or read the language fluently), but folks here have been quite friendly and supportive. I've found it easier to make friends here than in SF (where I've lived for eight years). Inasmuch as you can generalize an entire country, people here are forgiving and curious and friendly...just shy/introverted and overworked.
The foreign people who do best here seem to be the folks who are a) at least a little bit outgoing and well-adjusted, and b) don't have unrealistic prior expectations of what "Japan" is. So many weirdo, socially isolated expats come here expecting one long manga/anime/kawaii/samurai adventure that will fix their broken lives, and they're disappointed to find a country of normal people who work hard, have families and lives, and mostly don't do any of those things.
Love the food and the baths and the transit though. Wish they would adopt insulation. And decent cheese.
I speak almost fluent Japanese but the problem comes more in the very strong cultural difference that you are mostly not even aware of unless you are indeed fluent and surrounded by people that tell you your mistakes (which doesn't happen often).
It is (IMO) very hard to make 'good' Japanese friends (not talking about occasional drinking buddies). People seem nice but (especially in Tokyo) often don't tell you what they really think or feel. Being direct and honest about certain things is just not the way things are done here, that starts already at the language level and why you would rather say that something is difficult than not possible (それは難しいです・・・, pretty sure you heard that already a few times.)
Being direct as a foreigner and speaking in a direct way can work but is thus because of the difference in talking and nuance further isolating you and giving you the 'foreigner / 外人' stamp on your forehead, maybe without you really realizing that it's happening. A side-effect of that is that you get considered as, well, a foreigner. Maybe someone who is fun and weird to hang out with but not actually someone who could become a deep friend.
Then of course you have the other group of people that are strangely open and direct to you, but more than often that's the kind of people that only want a foreign boyfriend or someone to practice english with and nothing else.
Sure, everyone is indeed very very friendly and supportive but that can easily be confused with the polite nature that's rooted deeply in this country. That can also come over as shy and introverted, but if the majority of the people comes over as shy and introverted it's maybe not the people that's different but rather you.
Not saying at all that it's bad here. I am still really enjoying my time with a rough 4 years in total but it definitely depends if you want to be fully integrated or always wear that foreigner hat.
Have a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honne_and_tatemae
I have a Japanese wife and quasi-lived in Japan for a few months doing remote work, and the tatemae part is quite isolating. People are extremely friendly but there is a certain mask-like thing to it - it's very hard to describe. Politeness, but often it's politeness without warmth?
I've met a fair number of long-term expats now, and there's a group who have taken this personally, and now have a complex about never being "truly accepted"; then there are the ones who have embraced their otherness. Those latter folks are totally aware they're different, and they just decide that they're going to be themselves, but in Japan. They seem to get along quite well. I've met foreigners who run businesses, many who are married, and even a few who are involved in local government, organizing matsuri, and so on.
Anyway, I'm not suggesting that it's easy, or that I'm in that latter group. I'm just saying that I've seen it, and it's possible, and that it seems to come most readily when you know and accept where you stand.
(Also...for the record, I've heard this exact complaint from expats in every country I've ever visited, including Europe. I was once considering moving to the Netherlands, and I had a dozen lily-white expats telling me that the Dutch are great and friendly and incredibly polite, but it's just impossible to make native friends. So it's not just Japanese people.)
This is sort of a "bubble" problem. Dutch people that are "settled" already have a loyal circle of friends and are not always looking to make more friends. There's also the problem that expats usually work in demanding jobs with lots of competition and not a lot free time. It's hard to make friends that way, especially if half of your colleagues are rushing to daycare to pick up their kids.
If you were able to move out of that bubble, to a less populous / competitive area, you might find much more laid back people.
This is always true, everywhere. Long-time residents of a place have a network of friends/family that newcomers don't have. It's not unique to the Dutch or the Japanese.
This brings up a point I forgot: most expats are young, and have zero experience making friends outside of the social bubble of school. This is hard enough if you're just moving in your own country, but it's worse if you're moving to a place where you don't speak the language well. This is probably a source of a lot of the complaints about cultures being especially closed or unfriendly.
1) their expat colleagues 2) expat parties
Good luck finding natives there.
Also, it doesn't hurt to try and speak the language and understand the culture of a country you're living in.
Well I guess I'm somewhat inside that niche, however I would not expect my broken live to be fixed without any effort. Also before going there, I would probably learn japanese or make holiday there. Well I'm not good at getting friends and I doubt that neither in japan I would make many. I just love their culture and their food (at least some, katsudon <3 and other dishes). I also actually are a big fan of buildins and history, which japan has a lot.
I also heard that they have a special work mentality (which you also described). And somehow if my work is good I love it, which makes me like the longer working hours. For me that make's me more happy than actually making friends (I know I'm a wierdo) and somehow I think japan would be a whole new challenge for me. But as already stated I doubt I couldn't be there for more than 6 months to 1 year. I still love my home besides the fact that I live in a small town in Germany which is nothing compared to the SF area or any japanese town.
Edit: Great comments from a lot of people, Thanks that makes me actually more engaged to make savings to visit Japan at least once in my life.
Another big reason I love it here is how safe it is. After having lived in SF for a few years, there's a lot to be said for that.
Re: being difficult. I would disagree. Moving to Japan and dealing with immigration took me 4 months and multiple lawyers. The bureaucracy is real.
For all other visas you just need a sponsor (company) / proof that you can make money as a freelancer and, well, a university degree.
Japan might even be one of the only countries that effectively lets you skip the university degree (and 10 years of work experience) requirement with the right certificate that should be no problem to get if you know your computer science basics
We also have a deal with jetro: http://jetro.go.jp/usa/topics/companies-chosen-global-innova...
as well as a ton of Japanese PR which helped.
Half of our difficulty was actually finding a good law firm that understood how software companies work.
I've lived here for three years, go out every weekend and never once have I seen anyone playing beer pong.
The job market seems relatively weak in both areas compared to the Bay Area... Would you agree with that?
Boulder has more tech jobs. There are big guys like Twitter, Google and a gazillion of startups like VictorOps and SendGrid. Denver's lacking but I don't think it's too far behind. The fun stuff is pretty much all in Boulder though. Maybe the current construction boom will change that a bit.
I can't comment on salaries. I work remotely for a company that isn't in Denver, but I can just say you can live lavishly here if you make $120K+. And if you have some money to burn, it's a perfect time to invest in some property. The entire Denver area is under construction right now.
Great place, with unique quirks :) like periodical bombardments from Gaza strip...
Seems weird to me to bring this up here.
If I had to complain about something it's that I find Israelis to be relatively clique-ish, the postal service sucks, and the light rail isn't finished yet. OK, so there are no utopias.
Tel Aviv is a greatly underpublicized and underrated gem of a city, probably due to politics, which is sad because politics/the conflict has virtually no effect on day-to-day life here, and because it's difficult to get a work visa if you aren't Jewish, but that's slowly changing since the army and academia are only producing about half the amount of qualified/credentialed/experienced labor the tech sector needs every year and it's now impacting the growth of what's now the most important sector of the economy, and both are already relatively huge compared to other Western countries, so it's not like the government could expand the military or academia further in order to get more labor, and it's starting to warm to the idea of allowing more non-Jewish immigration to compensate.
[1] World Happiness Report http://worldhappiness.report/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2016... (pp 13)
2. English is enough for working in IT. Live gets a lot easier if you know German in German-speaking Switzerland, French in western Switzerland or Italian in Tessin (southern Switzerland)
3. I searched online and was approached by Hays. Then I had three interviews with three offers and took the best fit.
4. I moved alone but my girlfriend already lived here which made it easier of course
5. 10 years in total, 1.5 years as project manager in an agency, 8 years in a big utilities company. Had a side business for web development since 2009.
Looking back I would say getting that job was even easier than finding a new job in Germany. Developers are searched for so you can easily apply to open vacancies even if they do not explicitly search for foreigners. I can recommend jobs.ch as a source for jobs.
I think you've possibly misunderstood what you have been told by your friends - you don't need to show your bank balance to a landlord. However, it is true that you have to apply with a dossier of files as specified by the agency or landlord and you can expect these to contain a copy of your contract (and so your salary) and also a statement from the local debt/claims agency (best English approximation I can think of for "office de poursuites/Betreibungs- und Konkursämtern") attesting to the fact you do not have any outstanding claims against you. It is unlikely as a foreigner that you will.
However the essence of what you were told is correct - there is a lot of demand for apartments in Geneva and Zürich. The occupancy rate is well over 99%. It is less a case of searching for the flat you like and applying than applying for many apartments and hoping you are chosen by the landlord.
[1] If you have a work visa you already should have a AHV number. [2] If you would work as a "freelancer" for only one customer it will look like your "employer" just want to avoid to pay into the social system. [3] Your sole proprietorship company should be profitable after about 5 years.
Also a little bit boring and if you are not a "german" speaking person you will always feel unwelcome.
Transportation is cheap, it's very easy to reach other places in Asia and Korean people are very friendly (IMO).
If you like technology and shiny new things, Korea is definitely the place to be.
Koreans are also a bit racist but if you do not mind it's fine.
sure, it's no Silicon Valley but you can get decent/well paid jobs with a bit of trying. My salary was even slightly better than what I made in Germany before
However, if you are working remote you could probably be taking in a nice US salary and live very very well. 100k and you'd live like a king/queen there.
I am not fluent in Korean (still very far from becoming) but still consider Seoul as one of my favorite cities (if not my favorite) period
If you got a job at a large tech company, I suspect many wouldn't be as flexible. If you want to work for a large tech company, I would find out if they have any current remote workers.
I'm not sure I could live there, however. The downtown area is limited and a little run down. It also seems like you have to drive everywhere. The salaries don't reflect the cost of living. The IT market was a little anemic, but remote work could make these last points moot.
It's worth a visit all the same.
I felt like I was stagnating in the US. I wanted to pursue computer programming but I didn't study it in college and didn't quite have the skill set to succeed professionally at that point. My original plan was to buy a van, drive around warm parts of the US, and live cheaply while I studied for a year or so. Then I realized that I would have a lot more runway if I went abroad. Three weeks later (on the day of my 25th birthday) I was in Cambodia... for absolutely no planning whatsoever things have turned out very well. While low cost of living was originally the main reason I chose to live here, now there are many things that would make it hard for me to go anywhere else. I have become a different person here and living a very simple lifestyle (80$ per month apartment in an ultra densely populated neighborhood, no hot water, no AC, no TV, walking everywhere, eating only healthy food, exercising daily, etc.) has fixed most of my numerous neuroses :)
From all the interesting dishes, what do i have to try?
I like a lot of Khmer food but tend toward simple vegetable-heavy stir fries with okra, kale, bamboo, lotus stems, water spinach, etc. Rice porridge is very common here and usually includes bean sprouts and coagulated cow's blood plus added lime / pepper / chili (the cow's blood is great, but chicken blood tastes terrible IMO). I also eat grilled fish and grilled chicken skin on a near daily basis.
Did you try bitcoin?
For the existing employers, you could offer your employers a discount on your rate if they use bitcoin (or rather, ask them for a surplus percentage if they don't ;) ).
https://www.codementor.io/
http://livelygig.com/
https://www.bitwage.me/workers
Would need central air conditioning in summer though.
The really difficult problem for us Americans is staying in the EU for an extended period of time (90 of every 180 days only).
Other options I'm inclined to try: Santiago in Chile, and maybe one or two of the smaller tiny towns dotting the Chilean coast as you head south to Patagonia.
The only downside is that in 10-20 years it will probably become overcrowded.
I was there last year and loved it (equally Van was lovely), but the rent looked almost as outrageous as London.
Compared to other EU countries it is relatively cheap, but still has a pretty good quality of life. I'd say if you are earning a western salary, as long as you like winter, you can have a better quality of life than living somewhere like the UK (where I'm from).
There are direct flights to most European capitals, so if you want to work semi-remote that's an option too. There are lots of lakes and it's not too warm (max 35c for a few days a year), so it's nice to chill out here in the summer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry#Canada
I also have lived in Seattle and SF for 5+ years, and like Canada you never see anybody but the police carrying guns around. Worrying about gun violence in the USA is fear mongering, you should still be far more worried about motor vehicles.
Also CC license people have much lower rates of gun violence and crime than the general population, it's not those people you have to worry about.
Vancouver is truly a beautiful city, with a fairly low crime rate considering it's the 3rd largest Canadian city. A good place to work, a great place to raise a family.
The only drawback if you are working in an international firm is that we are one of the last time zones to conduct business in. Be prepared for 5am or 6am teleconferences with Europe, and 10pm calls with Asia.
If "close to family" wasn't a factor then: San Francisco, Seattle, Lyon (France), Barcelona, and London (for a little while).
It's hard to beat the benefits of the massive tech ecosystem in SF. It would be nice if some of that ecosystem moved to the South. Chattanooga and Nashville are nice cities that I wouldn't mind living in either.
The South's peculiar mix of dominionism and right-wing fervor makes strange bedfellows of fundamentalists and rapacious capitalists. Low taxes starve infrastructure and the social safety net, and those are what drives stability. Without stability, entrepreneurialism cannot happen. Without entrepreneurialism, the closest you get are places like Austin and RTP: big, established companies moving people for tax reasons that does nothing to foster innovation.
Atlanta really should be the next big tech hub, but it won't be so long as the regressive politics and systemic racism of the south remain unaddressed. Charlotte would be great except that things like HB2 make the prospect of moving to NC a complete nonstarter for many in the already-marginalized LGBTQ population. The list goes on.
I'll try to focus on my SaaS and have a nice, steady income to turn my dream true.
Unfortunately I'm not alone in loving it so real estate is crazy expensive (even more so than NYC/SF).
That being said, HKers have done a better job of adjusting to this by making (tiny) apartments available whereas in SF you're forced to pay more for a bigger space.
[0] http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-most-expensive-cities...
Hopefully the boom will end at some point making it affordable again, but I don't hold out much hope for that.
I guess the tech scene is decent, but the other factors I mentioned mean a lot more to me. (I would almost prefer it if the area weren't as much of a hotspot, actually...)